1 1 HEARINGS ON RAPE AND STAFF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT 2 IN U.S. PRISONS 3 4 Ironwood State Prison & Schuylkill Federal 5 Correctional Institution 6 7 Tuesday, March 11, 2008; 9:00 a.m. 8 9 U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice 10 Programs Building 11 810 7th Street, Main Conference Room, Third Floor 12 Washington, D.C. 13 14 15 PANEL MEMBERS: 16 Steven McFarland, Chair 17 Carroll Ann Ellis 18 19 20 Reported by: 21 David Corbin 2 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 WITNESS PAGE 3 Allen Beck, Senior Statistical Advisor, BJS 10 4 James Tilton, Secretary, CDCR 27 5 Wendy Still, Associate Director, Female 61 6 Offender Programs & Services, CDCR 7 Timothy Riddle, Lieutenant, Ironwood Prison 89 8 Richard Anti, Associate Warden, Ironwood 116 9 Lynn Thomas, Staff Nurse, Ironwood 134 10 Debra Dexter, Warden, Ironwood 146 11 Harley Lappin, Director, FBP 179 12 Glenn Walters, Psychologist, Schuylkill FCI 222 13 Bruce Kovach, Lieutenant, Schuylkill FCI 223/263 14 David Steffan, Physician Assistant, Schuylkill 222 15 Amy Leonard, Unit Manager, Schuylkill 264 16 Tom Sniezek, Warden, Schuylkill 315 17 18 19 20 21 3 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Good morning. This is 3 the first hearing of the Review Panel on Prison 4 Rape. My name is Steve McFarland. And it's my 5 pleasure to chair the Panel. This is, as I said, 6 the first of two public hearings this week of the 7 Review Panel which was created within the Department 8 of Justice by the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 9 2003. Statutory mandate for this Panel is clear and 10 narrow, to identify the common characteristics of 11 both victims and perpetrators of prison rape and 12 characteristics of the prisons that have been 13 determined to have had the greatest and least 14 success in preventing prison rape and staff sexual 15 misconduct as of last year. This hearing was 16 announced in the Federal Register on February 19, on 17 the Panel's Web site and by media advisory last 18 Thursday. The Panel will report to the National 19 Prison Rape Elimination Commission and the Bureau of 20 Justice Statistics in the Department of Justice its 21 findings as to the common characteristics of both 4 1 victims and predators in prison as well as what 2 appears to characterize the prisons with the 3 greatest and least success in eliminating sexual 4 assault. When BJS issues in late April the results 5 of its anonymous surveys of inmates in jails across 6 the United States, the Panel will begin similar 7 hearings with officials and employees of those jails 8 that rank the best and worst in preventing rape and 9 staff sexual misconduct. But the subject of this 10 week, this month, and in these hearings is sexual 11 assault in state and federal prisons. 12 After we hear from the prison systems that 13 have the lowest incidence of sexual assault, meaning 14 the Federal Bureau of Prisons and California, 15 facilities in those two systems, we will convene 16 tomorrow a second hearing and spend Wednesday, 17 Thursday, and Friday hearing from staff management 18 of some of the prisons from systems that have the 19 highest incidence of sexual assault. One facility 20 each in Florida, Indiana, and Nebraska's Department 21 of Corrections. At the end of Friday we will recess 5 1 the hearing for a couple of weeks until Thursday and 2 Friday, March 27 and 28, and we'll reconvene public 3 hearings in Houston, Texas, South Texas College of 4 Law moot courtroom. There the Panel will hear from 5 officials and employees at five prisons in the Texas 6 prison system, which were among the ten U.S. prisons 7 with the highest incidence of prison rape and staff 8 sexual misconduct. And then finally we will 9 reconvene here again in D.C. in early April to hear 10 from one witness that's unavailable, namely the 11 warden of one of the Texas prisons. So by early 12 next month, after seven days of sworn testimony, the 13 Panel will have scrutinized the features of ten 14 prisons -- nine facilities in five state systems and 15 one facility in the federal system. 16 On behalf of the Panel, I want to thank 17 several people for their excellent assistance in 18 pulling this hearing together. The Office of 19 Justice Programs and the Department of Justice, led 20 by Acting Assistant Attorney General Jeffrey 21 Sedgwick. And particularly Michael Alston, George 6 1 Mazza, Kathleen Severens, Debra Harris of the Office 2 of Civil Rights of OJP. Thank Andie Moss of the 3 Moss Group, our expert advisor. Ms. Camille Cain of 4 the Associate Attorney General's office. Mark Eply 5 of the Office of the Deputy Attorney General. And 6 Mr. Robert Siedlecki, Junior, senior legal counsel 7 in our office. Very indebted to you and many others 8 for putting this together. We have just several 9 requests for the witnesses, all the witnesses. If 10 you submitted written testimony, you may but 11 shouldn't feel obligated to read it. You might want 12 to just summarize it. We have read or we will read 13 it and would strongly prefer to leave time for 14 questions. We will be very pressed for time and we 15 want to be able to explore your comments, your 16 verbal comments. 17 Second, we want to ask, if you would, 18 define any jargon or acronyms or prison slang. 19 Third, the more specific and succinct and direct the 20 better. While your testimony will be under oath, I 21 want to emphasize this is not a criminal inquest. 7 1 We're looking for what works and what does not, 2 what's associated with high or low incidence of 3 sexual victimization in prison. We're not looking 4 to place blame. We want to just learn what can be 5 done to stop prison rape and staff sexual misconduct 6 in our prisons. And finally our questions are 7 directed solely at the prison facilities at issue, 8 not the entire prison systems of whichever they are 9 a part. Thus, we would like your answers to relate 10 specifically to the prisons at issue and not the 11 whole prison system to which they belong. The 12 record will be left open until 30 days after the 13 last hearing of the warden of the Estelle Unit, 14 should any of our witnesses have additional or 15 clarifying remarks or documents to provide to the 16 Panel. 17 It's my pleasure to introduce Carroll Ann 18 Ellis, the other member of the Panel. She is ably 19 qualified as director of the Victim Services 20 division of Fairfax County Police Department. She 21 conducts programs that assess the needs of crime 8 1 victims, she provides technical assistance on victim 2 assistance, including community intervention 3 systems, homicide support groups, and other 4 standards on domestic violence. And most recently 5 she was appointed by the Governor of Virginia to 6 serve on the Virginia Tech review panel that 7 investigated the circumstances of the tragedy at 8 Virginia Tech. So -- and she has -- this is not her 9 day job, so she's really one of our heroes in that 10 she has freed up the entire week to spend listening 11 and to analyzing and trying to distill the 12 characteristics we're looking for. Our other 13 panelist, Ted Sexton, unfortunately had to resign 14 last week because of his new responsibilities in the 15 Department of -- Department of Homeland Security. 16 He's a new assistant secretary there and with the 17 bombing in New York City last week and other 18 matters, he just didn't think that he could give the 19 time that it deserves. So two of us are the Panel 20 at this point until a third person is appointed 21 by -- by the Assistant Attorney General Sedgwick. 9 1 Our first witness will be Doctor Allen Beck, who is 2 the Deputy Director of the Department of Justice's 3 Bureau of Justice Statistics. Doctor Beck had 4 primary responsibility for the survey upon which the 5 prisons that have been invited this week were 6 chosen. We've asked Doctor Beck to take about ten 7 minutes to briefly summarize how the Bureau 8 implemented and interpreted the national survey of 9 inmates with the objective of clarifying the 10 reliability and limits of the survey. It's an 11 extraordinary and precedent-setting survey. It's 12 almost insulting to only give him ten minutes, but 13 to be honest, because he's here in D.C. we can talk 14 to him at any time he has the time and many of you 15 are coming from out of town so we have a limited 16 length of time with you all. We had the pleasure of 17 spending several hours with Doctor Beck already. So 18 Doctor Beck's testimony is primarily for the benefit 19 of the public at this point and we're indeed 20 grateful for his time. Doctor Beck, first need to 21 administer the oath. Do you solemnly swear or 10 1 affirm that the testimony you'll give the Panel will 2 be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 3 truth? 4 ALLEN BECK: Absolutely, yes. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. 6 ALLEN BECK: Good morning, everyone. 7 Members of the Panel, I'm honored to be here this 8 morning. Thank you. I would like to begin by 9 providing a very brief overview of the 2007 national 10 inmate survey. I won't belabor the details. You 11 have my written testimony, I will not go through it 12 verbatim. I would like to, however, provide 13 cautionary words to consider as you interpret the 14 results for specific facilities over the next few 15 days. The Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003 16 requires the Bureau of Justice Statistics to carry 17 out for each calendar year a comprehensive 18 statistical view and analysis of the incidence and 19 effects of prison rape. It requires BJS to provide 20 a listing of state and federal prisons ranked 21 according to the incidence of prison rape. It 11 1 requires BJS to be in not fewer than ten percent of 2 the facilities each year. The report that we issued 3 in December met the requirements of the Prison Rape 4 Elimination Act for state prisons and federal 5 prisons. The survey consisted of a computer self 6 interview in which inmates used a touch screen, 7 interacted with a computer-assisted questionnaire, 8 and followed audio instructions. We staffed 150 9 facilities. All contacted correctional authorities 10 agreed to participate in the survey. Four 11 facilities dropped out as a result of one being 12 closed, one being sampled twice, and two of which 13 the survey simply could not be conducted. We 14 interviewed approximately 23,000 inmates, obtained a 15 response rate of about 72 percent, almost twice the 16 rate of any other study that we know of in this 17 area. The inmates survey screened for specific 18 sexual activities and categorized various forms of 19 various incidents based upon the uniform definition 20 set for -- adopted by BJS in 2004 and utilized in 21 other surveys. Reports of inmate-on-inmate sexual 12 1 violence, classified as either non-consensual sexual 2 acts, more serious kind of acts, which we most often 3 think about in terms of forceable rape or forceable 4 sodomy, and abusive sexual contact, that means 5 unwanted touching, specific body parts in a sexual 6 way. Staff sexual misconduct incidents were further 7 classified as either willing or unwilling. 8 Unwilling as a result of physical force, pressure, 9 or offering special favors by department staff. The 10 actual facility-level estimates represent the 11 reports of inmates indicating they experienced one 12 or more incidents of sexual victimization in the 13 facilities in the past 12 months or since admission 14 to the facility, whichever was shorter. Bounded 15 victimization rate within the facility: ten 16 facilities had rates of 9.3 percent or greater; six 17 facilities indicated no reported incidents; and an 18 additional 31 facilities have raised that 19 non-statistically different from zero. Obviously, 20 because this is a sample, these facility estimates 21 are subject to sampling error. And you need to be 13 1 aware of the caution, if you can, as you interpret 2 these results. Precision of each facility-level 3 estimate was provided in the report based on its 4 estimated standard errors. So if you take the 5 victimization rate of Estelle, it goes to 6 15.7 percent. That rate had a precision plus or 7 minus 5.1 percent, or 95 percent. That means we're 8 95 percent confident that the true prevalence rate 9 in Estelle unit is somewhere between 10.6 percent 10 and 20.8 percent. All of the rates are based on 11 sampling, all of the rates are subject to sampling 12 error. And that necessitates particular care of 13 interpreting the results, since many facilities the 14 actual enumerator on which the rate is based is 15 relatively small. So for the largest ten 16 facilities, the number of actual victims that came 17 forward ranged from 11 in Coffield to 30 in Estelle. 18 So we have relatively few people coming forward. 19 Because it is a sample, they represent great -- a 20 larger number of inmates, had we interviewed 21 everyone and everyone had responded, we can make 14 1 estimates as to how many that might be. But because 2 the rates, the numbers are small, further 3 decomposition in terms of the characteristics of the 4 incidents, characteristics of the perpetrators, 5 characteristics of the victims become somewhat 6 difficult to do. So we have provided some of that 7 information to the ten largest facilities, ten 8 facilities with the largest rates, as best we could. 9 And you received those tables in recent days. 10 I further caution it must be understood -- 11 and that it these estimates are based on 12 allegations, allegations which have not been 13 substantiated through investigation, but despite our 14 efforts to reassure inmates that their responses 15 about sexual violence would be kept confidential, 16 some inmates may not have felt comfortable to come 17 forward or confident in our representations and our 18 confidentiality. At the same time, some inmates may 19 have made false allegations. We know based on our 20 demonstrated data collection that we have conducted 21 over the last three years, a quarter of the 15 1 allegations brought to the attention of state and 2 federal authorities, upon completion of an official 3 investigation, are determined to have been 4 unfounded, that is proven not to have occurred. The 5 survey results should not be viewed as the gold 6 standard. The survey cannot determine which 7 allegations are true and which are false. Despite 8 extensive follow-up questions contained in the 9 survey, some inmates admittedly may be making false 10 reports. 11 Facility estimates are based on incidents 12 of varying types, varying levels of coercion, 13 differing levels of seriousness. Not all incidents 14 are in fact the same. In calculating rapes, 15 however, we have included all reported incidents in 16 those rates. A close examination of the five 17 facilities with the highest rates indicates that the 18 primary component was staff sexual misconduct. Each 19 had staff-on-inmate rates exceeding 7.5 percent. In 20 each of the top four facilities, at least five 21 percent of the inmates said the sexual conduct with 16 1 staff was willing. Although this activity is wrong 2 and illegal, it's quite different from activity 3 involving physical force and pressure involving 4 coercion, explicit coercion. Abusive sexual 5 contacts that involved unwanted touching are 6 different from non-consensual sexual acts that 7 involve oral, anal, vaginal penetration and are 8 forceful. Yet the overall prevalence rates 9 apparently are the same. The point is that, as you 10 interpret the results, care must be exercised. 11 Underlying the rates are considerable variations in 12 nature and seriousness of incidents being reported. 13 Facilities' rates are subject to unknown measurement 14 error. As with any measures of self-reported 15 victimization, inmates may have faulty memories. 16 For instance, they may report incidents that 17 happened in another facility or outside of the 18 12-month referenced period. We confront the same 19 problems as we conduct the national crime 20 victimization survey with telescoping and false 21 memories. The former prisoner survey that we're 17 1 currently conducting may provide some insight to the 2 extent of these problems, collecting information for 3 the totality of the incarcerated period and not 4 bounding the period, the referenced period, by 12 5 months or admission to the facility. Some types of 6 sexual misconduct may be more susceptible to 7 measurement errors than others. Consider 8 allegations of staff sexual misconduct, particularly 9 unwanted touching. The prevalence of these 10 allegations may be strongly related to institutional 11 climate, as dissatisfaction of the facility, with 12 the staff, or the programming. The prevalence of 13 these allegations may also be related strongly to a 14 frequency of pat-downs and strip searches, which 15 inmates simply don't like. In 2008, BJS intends to 16 include measures of institutional climate and 17 explore the extent to which allegations of staff 18 sexual misconduct are related to pat downs and strip 19 searches. 20 Finally, in response to the NIS results, 21 the inmate survey results, facility operators are 18 1 placed at somewhat of a disadvantage since BJS 2 cannot provide detailed data on inmate allegations. 3 In response to requests from correctional 4 administrators, BJS is provided facility-level 5 reports for the ten high-rated facilities. These 6 reports, as I mentioned, have already been provided 7 to you. We're constrained in the level of detail 8 that we can provide due to confidentiality 9 restrictions; however, we provided basic tabulations 10 showing responses in multiple categories. These 11 tabulations will give administrators and the Panel a 12 better sense of the allegations reported in the NIS. 13 These tables will not provide the level of detail to 14 permit administrators to investigate the validity of 15 specific allegations. However, they do provide a 16 profile of inmates who experience such incidents, 17 detail of when and where incidents occur, details on 18 the type of coercion used, nature of injuries and 19 characteristics, and information on the past 20 employees for reasons -- and for reasons for not 21 reporting. I think this information may be useful 19 1 in evaluating current procedures and taking steps to 2 reduce and eliminate sexual violence. Thank you 3 again for asking me to appear before you. I'm 4 available for questions. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Doctor Beck, thank you 6 very much. I just had a couple of questions. 7 The -- you mentioned that a quarter of the 8 allegations brought to the attention of the 9 correctional authorities upon completion of an 10 official investigation were determined to have been 11 unfounded. And were these uniformly official 12 investigations of the correctional institution or 13 its system or by outside investigators, law 14 enforcement, district attorney? 15 ALLEN BECK: Well, when an allegation is 16 brought forward, an investigation follows, so far as 17 evidence to examine. And when we collect data from 18 administrators, we ask for not only the allegations 19 but whether an investigation was conducted and the 20 outcome of that investigation. Now, the nature of 21 the investigation varies from state to state, from 20 1 facility -- from system to system, and the jails 2 obviously, from jail jurisdiction to jail 3 jurisdiction. In the 2004 report, which I can 4 provide to the Panel, we examined some of that, and 5 who conducts those investigations, as I recall. So 6 some of it may be done internally, some of it may be 7 done by law enforcement, either local or state law 8 enforcement. Some may be referred to child 9 protective services. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In the case of 11 California, they had an office that -- 12 ALLEN BECK: Yeah, it really depends on 13 the operations of the system. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I also wanted to follow 15 up on your statement that in each of the top four 16 facilities, at least five percent of the inmates 17 said the sexual contact with staff was willing. 18 Although this activity is wrong and illegal, it's 19 quite different from activity involving physical 20 force and pressure. In what way is it different -- 21 can't -- is there such a thing as consensual sex 21 1 when there's a relationship of a guard and a 2 prisoner? 3 ALLEN BECK: Absolutely not. That's why 4 it's illegal. And that's why it's wrong. However, 5 I think one of the -- to face reality, that some of 6 these incidents may have been initiated by the 7 inmate, not by the staff. And you do have to 8 consider who is the victim in some respects to these 9 incidents. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would it be fair to 11 say, though, that an inmate, such an inmate, might 12 have ulterior motives and then as soon as he or she 13 compromises the officer, he's got that guard over a 14 barrel, so to speak, and can extort concessions, 15 contraband, other things, so it may not always be 16 consensual in the sense of an amorous desire but 17 rather -- 18 ALLEN BECK: That's correct. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So we will never know. 20 ALLEN BECK: That's a challenge to 21 understand that dynamic. We certainly found in our 22 1 administrative collections a large proportion of 2 substantiated incidents of staff sexual misconduct 3 involving female staff with male inmates. And upon 4 investigation, a large number of those incidents 5 being characterized as willing or romantic or 6 impossible to determine sometimes. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: My last question was 8 related to BJS's attention to measure institutional 9 climate and relationship to pat-downs and strip 10 search. When will that study -- when will we be 11 supplied the -- 12 ALLEN BECK: Well, we're going to 13 introduce a battery of new questions in the 2008 14 inmate survey. And we're developing those questions 15 using institutional climates that have been used in 16 the correctional facilities in the past. And so we 17 feel these are equivalent appropriate measures for 18 deeper understanding of staff sexual misconduct. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When do you expect -- 20 ALLEN BECK: Well, that will be -- the 21 next round will begin data collection in September. 23 1 Expecting review and clearance on those measures. 2 The prison -- prisons will be first -- the prison 3 collection will be done largely upfront first as we 4 get this year. So we're talking four to five months 5 for data collection. So we're into March of next 6 year somewhere. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Doctor Beck, we -- I 8 want to just read excerpts of the testimony of the 9 second expert with whom I think you're familiar, 10 Doctor Gerald Gaes, who is a consultant. Couldn't 11 be here today, but we asked him for his opinion 12 about the credibility of the survey on which these 13 rankings are predicated. And I won't read his 14 entire testimony, but suffice to say he notes that 15 the "national inmate survey is the most 16 comprehensive and systematic assessment of sexual 17 victimization in prisons that's ever been 18 conducted." And then he talks about various 19 problems, some of which Doctor Beck has mentioned, 20 assumptions, and "why research has demonstrated that 21 the audio techniques, computer-assisted surveying 24 1 instrument techniques that Doctor Beck and his team 2 developed, are better than other survey methods to 3 elicit responses to sensitive questions. 4 Furthermore, since the survey questions are 5 transmitted orally over ear phones and the 6 alternative responses are highlighted on the screen, 7 even inmates who have minimal literacy skills can 8 participate in the survey." Then talks about how 9 they overcame other issues, issues of consent, why 10 this is superior to pencil-and-paper forms, the 11 latter being used if it was too dangerous to take an 12 inmate out of his or her cell. He notes that "the 13 overall response rate was 72 percent, which is quite 14 good for a survey of this nature. The statisticians 15 on this project used weights based on inmate age, 16 gender, race, date of admission, and sentence length 17 to insure representation of the facility 18 population." And then he concludes with a 19 discussion of competing biases, as Doctor Beck 20 mentioned, the possible bias of underreporting due 21 to coercion of the -- or suppression of candor on 25 1 the inmates, and the possibility of overreporting, 2 if there is a sense that they wanted to make life 3 difficult for their captors, so to speak, by 4 overreporting incidents. And he discusses how this 5 can and was and might be further ameliorated in what 6 BJS is planning to do in its next survey. I want to 7 thank Doctor Beck for your testimony. Unless 8 Ms. Ellis has any questions. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you, Doctor 10 Beck. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you very much. I 12 screwed up and failed to give Ms. Ellis an 13 opportunity to make some opening remarks. If she 14 doesn't mind, I'll give you now or would you rather 15 do it tomorrow morning? 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'll do it now. Good 17 morning. I am a victim advocate, and as such I am 18 both motivated and challenged by the work of this 19 Panel, which of course is focused on PREA, the PREA 20 Act, efforts to eliminate prison rape. Because it 21 is such important work, I feel that we have the 26 1 opportunity to focus in on sexual assault and ways 2 of eliminating it within a specific population and 3 culture. Rape, wherever it might occur, constitutes 4 one of the most demoralizing acts of violence. Rape 5 is an act of aggression, regardless of the gender of 6 the victim or the perpetrator. It is neither about 7 sexual desire nor deprivation, but it is motivated 8 by power and control. Sexual assault in any form is 9 dehumanizing and insidious in ways that leave the 10 victim traumatized, including shamed, self-loathing 11 and the object of blame by others. Sexual assault 12 victims must deal with concerns of sexually 13 transmitted diseases, the loss of sexuality -- 14 because of forced sexual violation, the loss of 15 privacy, self-esteem, and the fear of future or 16 continued sexual violence. I am convinced that as 17 we hear today and throughout the week from so many 18 who will provide testimony, that such shared 19 information will surely expand our individual and 20 collective ability to assist victims of sexual 21 assault, whether in prisons or in the wider world. 27 1 Also, the shared information will in the end help us 2 as a society to strive toward a more civilized world 3 where sexual assault in any form will not be 4 tolerated and cease to exist. I want to join the 5 chair in thanking all of those who have worked so 6 diligently to bring us to this point. Thank you 7 very much and I look forward to testimony. Thank 8 you. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Our next witness is 10 Mr. James Tilton, who is the secretary of the 11 California Department of Corrections and 12 Rehabilitation. Thank you for being with us, 13 Mr. Secretary. If you wouldn't mind raising your 14 right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that 15 the testimony you give the Panel will be the whole 16 truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God? 17 JAMES TILTON: I do. Thank you very much. 18 My staff are here to follow behind me to give some 19 more details, but you have my talking points I 20 submitted to you, but I would like to walk through 21 that a little bit to reemphasize how important I 28 1 think this is for my job in terms of secretary of 2 Department of Corrections and some of the major 3 reforms that California is moving forward. And I 4 consider this as one of the major issues in terms of 5 creating a safe environment for our prison system. 6 So let me walk you through a little bit, give you 7 some highlights. I won't go through all of them. 8 But I think it's important for me to reemphasize how 9 important I think the activities of this Panel are 10 and for all of us to keep working to create safe 11 environments. 12 Again, thank you for the opportunity to 13 testify in front of your Panel. I can't think of 14 anything more important as the secretary than 15 creating a safe environment in the prison system in 16 California for both staff and inmates. And I'm very 17 excited about the effort that California has taken 18 in terms of -- in my view taking the issue of prison 19 rape and prison rape elimination very seriously in 20 California. As you know, California passed its own 21 law to make it not just a federal responsibility but 29 1 a state responsibility. Eliminating sexual assault 2 within our facilities and setting zero tolerance 3 expectation, and prosecuting those who violate the 4 laws let them know that you're creating a safe 5 environment in the prison system of California. We 6 have written statewide policies, we created zero 7 tolerance. We put out memos to that effect. We 8 provide standard protocols of investigations. We 9 partner with researchers around the country to make 10 sure we have clear policies in California. We're 11 creating evidence-based practices. I know Doctor 12 Beck has dealt with the issue of the statistics, but 13 it's the best we have. And I think it's important 14 for us not to state lightly some of the variances, 15 but to focus on what it does give us in terms of 16 information and in terms of what's happening. We 17 partnered with NIC in our efforts to eradicate 18 prison sexual assault and we're working very closely 19 with the national standards (inaudible). Again, my 20 agency has zero tolerance for sexual assault in the 21 prison systems as well as for the sole point of 30 1 creating a safe environment. 2 The zero tolerance policy also provides 3 four hours of managerial training. We think this is 4 key to not just have a policy statement, but make 5 sure that all staff and inmates are aware of that 6 policy. Further, to protect that, we establish 7 booklets and information for inmates and staff in 8 order to get the word out in terms of what our 9 expectations are. We have a video that's being used 10 for inmates so they are aware of their rights, 11 trying to reinforce this issue that we have a safe 12 environment and it's okay to report incidents that 13 may take place. We have done all we can in terms of 14 publicizing that issue. We established posters in 15 the prisons and you'll hear more about that from my 16 staff today. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We've seen them. 18 JAMES TILTON: And I think the -- the 19 other thing we've done that has been very 20 educational for us is to look at housing policies, 21 and not just in terms of asking the inmates to 31 1 evaluate the practice in terms of how we do that. 2 We take face-to-face interviews, address their 3 safety issues, height, weight, race, gang 4 affiliation, commitment offense, sexual assault 5 history as we assign housing. And I think that's 6 been a major positive influence on our ability to 7 provide that safe environment. We look at those 8 factors which may be -- to set up a situation where 9 we create a potential for the assaults. We're doing 10 research in California with the assistance of Doctor 11 Bou Regents. We know that establishing housing 12 protocols and considering offenders' size and age is 13 critical to the inmate safety. We're currently 14 taking on a second research project with Mercy 15 California, Irvine, to provide evidence necessary to 16 improve our operational policies and procedures 17 related to transgender inmates. We did a study and 18 found out that they are more vulnerable to this, and 19 so we think it provides a separate focus to look at 20 the transgender inmate population and identify if 21 there's other issues that we should be addressing in 32 1 that population. We've partnered with a non-profit 2 agency, Stop Prisoner Rape, to establish memorandums 3 of understanding in individual institutions for 4 local rape crisis centers to respond to incidents of 5 rape in our prisons. We put an inmate outreach 6 program in 17 of our institutions, hoping to move 7 forward with the rest of those and establish a -- 8 Stop Prisoner Rape has implemented a pilot program, 9 Paths to Recovery. At one adult male institution 10 the CCI -- in one adult female institution, provided 11 extended counseling to inmate victims of sexual 12 assault no matter when the assault occurred. It is 13 my understanding that this is the first program of 14 its kind in the nation. 15 Again, as a system, I think it's very 16 important for us to establish this issue of safe 17 environments for prison. Kind of a side comment, as 18 you know, California is probably one of the most 19 overcrowded prison systems in the nation, and that's 20 been a negative impact on our ability to provide 21 that safe environment. We're on our major issue now 33 1 to rethink how we manage inmate populations in 2 California, to get out of the warehousing mentality 3 that we have had, and this issue, this program here, 4 I think, is allowing us to focus on issues which 5 will help us across the board in terms of addressing 6 the issues in the prison system to create that safe, 7 positive environment where inmates are better off 8 when they leave than when they came into the 9 department. One other comment I want to make, 10 though, in terms of the data. You're going to hear 11 from an institution that has zero incidents of -- 12 based on Doctor Beck's study. And I don't mean this 13 as a negative, it's a great institution, managed 14 very well, but I also am not assuming that it is 15 zero. That it could be, if this was a situation 16 looking at statistics, we could have a situation 17 where inmates could be afraid to report. I don't 18 think that's the case here, but I want to put on the 19 table. In addition, I have institutions who have 20 higher incidence based on Doctor Beck's studies. 21 And when I look at those institutions, I'll be 34 1 candid, that I think those numbers are high based on 2 the characteristics of those institutions. But I'm 3 not ignoring those institutions, and we need to look 4 at the entire spectrum to make sure, again, we're 5 creating an environment in the prison system where 6 people are safe, do their time, and are free from 7 rape and other issues and situations. 8 In closing, I just want to thank you for 9 your efforts. I think it's very helpful for us to 10 take a look at our organizations to make sure what 11 we're doing -- to provide proper environments for 12 inmates to serve their time, and I look forward to 13 working with your Panel and seeing results and 14 seeing if we can't do a better job in California 15 than we already do. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you, 17 Mr. Secretary. The written statement and your 18 verbal summary suggests that Ironwood, the facility 19 that was among the zero incidents facilities, that 20 Ironwood is low because of underreporting. And you 21 explain or suggest that certain of your women's 35 1 facilities, including the Valley facility, are high 2 because of overreporting. Why do you make those -- 3 draw those conclusions, if I understand your 4 testimony correctly? 5 JAMES TILTON: Well, the issue I have, I 6 just want -- the data is the best we have. But as 7 Doctor Beck said, there's some variances there. 8 Now, just because I made those statements doesn't 9 mean we're not paying attention. I think you're 10 going to find some things at Ironwood that deal with 11 inmate communication, training, using inmates as 12 peer counselors and stuff. Good positive things. 13 But I do have a couple incidents that have been 14 found at Ironwood. I think there's been two. So I 15 just want to make sure that we don't get caught up 16 in the numbers as much and not recognize -- I'm not 17 saying there are zero in the other ones, I'm just 18 saying that we need to be aware of the statistics. 19 Keep looking at that, trying to fine-tune it. One 20 of the things -- it's not in my testimony but I want 21 to add, besides the ombudsman process in California, 36 1 we have an independent outside investigation process 2 that I think has helped us in California do a better 3 job of our investigations when we had an issue of 4 code of silence in California. And that's what I 5 just raised. I just want to throw that out, the 6 ideas. We have an independent, outside oversight of 7 all investigations of both staff and inmate 8 behavior. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's the office of 10 Matthew -- 11 JAMES TILTON: Matt Cate, Office of 12 Inspector General. To me, that's been a real asset 13 to have that independent -- to feel comfortable that 14 investigations are done fairly, completely and 15 appropriate. So I just want to throw that out, that 16 that's an added asset for me as the secretary. 17 We've got an outside watch-dog agency that oversees 18 the investigation. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how is that office 20 outside, who does he report to? 21 JAMES TILTON: Well, it's an independent 37 1 office, reports to the Governor and Legislature. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the ombudsman 3 reports to you? 4 JAMES TILTON: The ombudsman is an office 5 within my office, yes. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And are there ombudsmen 7 at every facility in CDCR? 8 JAMES TILTON: Not every one. They are 9 assigned to facilities. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many would you say? 11 JAMES TILTON: I think we have about 12 or 12 13 that go through 30, 32 prisons. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the size of the 14 budget for the ombudsman is what, any idea? 15 JAMES TILTON: No idea. It's about 13, 15 16 prisons and whatever traveling. I'll be glad to 17 follow up with that if you would like. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If you wouldn't mind, 19 that would be helpful. It's pretty unique within 20 the country. And what authority does the office of 21 sexual assault in detention and elimination 38 1 ombudsman have? 2 JAMES TILTON: Well, the office is set up 3 to have an independent -- again, report to my 4 office. The idea is that they work with inmates in 5 the facilities and we provide a fair and independent 6 safe place to report, that they can ensure that this 7 confidentiality and issues be addressed. Again, 8 reports right to my office. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What is your systems 10 biggest concern in implementing PREA? 11 JAMES TILTON: I think the issue for us is 12 just a matter of getting communication out, 13 establishing an environment where inmates feel safe 14 to report the incidents. I think we're taking a new 15 approach to address the issue of victims, which you 16 talked about. It's no different in a prison system 17 than outside. And so are we providing that service 18 that's necessary. For me, one of my lead managers, 19 who is taking this very seriously and she very much 20 assisted us and paid attention to it -- we have a 21 reputation in the prison system of being a little 39 1 callous to the people who we are providing care for. 2 So this is an opportunity for us to demonstrate -- 3 to me it's the major reforms we're trying to put in 4 California today. Inmates -- the penalty is that 5 you serve your time, not be penalized while doing 6 your time. So, to me, this is one symptom of how to 7 provide a fair and safe environment. At the same 8 time, I'm concerned about issues with my staff, 9 false reporting, to make sure they are protected 10 also. We have put some cameras in place. I am 11 putting them in other areas. Cameras in the prisons 12 have been very helpful, to be honest, in 13 investigating incidents in the prison system. So 14 I'm looking forward to the paths we have with 15 cameras, and I think I will move forward -- there is 16 more on that, not just on the prison rape issue, but 17 in terms of incidents in the prisons in terms of 18 identifying those predators in the prison and not 19 penalizing the entire prison population when you 20 have incidents that have investigations. I think 21 right now the issue is what are we doing to make 40 1 sure that there's communication of good practices, 2 health practices, do that from a public (inaudible). 3 They're doing a very good job, I think, of 4 communicating to the inmates the negative -- certain 5 behavior that may have an impact. So my issue, I 6 think, is a lot of focus on the issue, it's 7 providing management and a system that helps us in 8 other areas beside rape elimination. That's my 9 point here, is that some of the things we're putting 10 in here today assist us in creating a safe 11 environment for both staff and inmates so they will 12 be held accountable. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: You mentioned earlier 14 making inmates or making victims aware of their 15 rights. And, of course, across the nation victims 16 have rights in every state. How is this conveyed 17 within a prison environment to inmates, that they 18 have rights? What are those rights, how do they 19 understand those rights in terms of their safety and 20 ability to make reports? How is that conveyed? 21 JAMES TILTON: You'll hear more details 41 1 from Ironwood in terms of what they're doing there, 2 but the basic issue is we publicize, we do training 3 of staff and inmates, we do all we can to make sure 4 inmates -- I think you'll hear about inmate 5 orientation that is provided when they first come 6 into the facility at Ironwood. It's one of those 7 things that's done early on to communicate that. 8 But it's up to us as managers of the system to make 9 sure that, when people do raise those issues, they 10 are followed through fairly, investigated, and 11 prosecuted when appropriate. 12 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: You also mentioned 13 your partnerships with a number of national 14 organizations, and you touched very briefly on your 15 relationships and partnerships within the closer 16 community. Could you say a few more words about 17 that? You mentioned that you are in touch and in 18 communication with community-based organizations. 19 JAMES TILTON: Right. Well, what we have 20 here -- and this is one of my pleasures of coming in 21 as the secretary the last two years, I found that I 42 1 have a department that's reaching out, outside of 2 our organization, for assistance. This is one of 3 those. We're doing female gender-response 4 strategies, we're doing issuing -- the same person, 5 you'll hear from her shortly. But the issue is, 6 we're reaching out of the organization. My 7 observation is we in California have put up the 8 walls a little bit in terms of -- I know fences are 9 good for keeping people in, they are also used to 10 keep people out. And what we're trying to do is 11 open ourselves up to anyone out there who has 12 information that we can take advantage of and 13 partner to learn best practices. And so I think 14 that's the issue we have here is that we have -- 15 we're not saying we don't have issues in California, 16 we're saying we do have issues, but we're looking 17 around the country and partnering with folks. 18 Your background in terms of victims 19 advocate -- I travel around institutions, and it's 20 interesting when you start putting the rights of the 21 victim on the individuals. But all I can say here 43 1 is, and my staff has the details, but in reality 2 we're opening ourselves up. We're working with NIC, 3 we're working with your Panel, we're working with 4 victims organizations in our communities to have 5 them assist us with the fact that we have victims in 6 this business and we should be treating them like we 7 would victims on the outside. We're just opening 8 ourselves up, try to take advantage of whatever 9 assets, and we're finding people are raising their 10 hands and assisting us and we sure appreciate that. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is it fair to say, 13 Mr. Secretary, that CDCR is overcrowded, as you 14 said? I've seen a figure of 270 percent of 15 capacity. Is that approximately correct? 16 JAMES TILTON: Well, it's hard. We talk 17 about the numbers. I even lose track of them. 18 Reality is in California we have all the housing 19 units stacked up as high as we can. We have over 20 18,000 inmates, or had over 18,000 inmates in gyms, 21 day rooms, laundry rooms. Pretty well overcrowded 44 1 in any term we have. What we're doing now is we're 2 going over a combination of reforms, some is 3 building, but largely reassessing alternatives for 4 population. And our population is down 5,000 in the 5 last six months. So we're taking steps to do that. 6 Because without getting a more reasonable 7 population, it's hard to address basic fundamental 8 services. On top of that, we're bringing programs 9 back in place. So clearly when the Governor took 10 over we had the label of California as the 11 warehousing system. I was there 20 years ago, I 12 built 20 prisons, and when I got back a few years 13 ago I completely had a warehouse. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's the staff, 15 quote-unquote, ratio to inmates? 16 JAMES TILTON: It's hard to say because it 17 varies, but very clear California, by buildings and 18 prisoners, has the leanest staffing. I think 19 48th or 49th in the country. We have prisons with 20 6,000 inmates or more. So we did a good job in that 21 goal. But a little background. I left the 45 1 department in 1998 and was in charge of improving 2 staffing patterns as part of my job, and always felt 3 I was very tight in my approval of staffing. When I 4 got back, through budget cuts they had eliminated 5 4,000 positions without touching the inmate 6 population. So you walk into prisons, you have very 7 little programming. And I don't care what kind of 8 staff, whether it's correctional officers, teachers, 9 vocational instructors, administrative, maintenance 10 staff were taken away. So my task now is to reduce 11 the overcrowding, put in place appropriate 12 resources, provide proper supervision and programs. 13 We did have a situation where inmates were sitting 14 idle and our response to that was to lock the 15 prisons down. We're now unlocking the prisons, 16 realizing that there are predators, we isolate the 17 predators, and create safe environments to bring 18 programs and services back into that. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is overtime a problem 20 for your budget? 21 JAMES TILTON: Well, it was. Because one 46 1 of the budget cuts they had was they shut down the 2 correctional officer pipeline to hire, which is 3 industry-wide. So we have been basically for the 4 last 18 months -- we have fixed that. We're now 5 hiring, we will be fully staffed by the summer. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Fully staffed to what 7 ratio or -- 8 JAMES TILTON: Well, it's kind of 9 interesting. We will be up probably no less than 10 five percent vacancies. Many of our prisons are 11 fully staffed -- just a matter of getting the 12 process up and recruiting. We pay very well in 13 California for our correctional officers, so it was 14 an issue of just getting the process going. More 15 important even than the staffing issue is putting 16 the programs back in place. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, how can you have 18 programs when it's kind of overcrowding? The panels 19 at Folsom and Sacramento -- we went into the gym, 20 they were triple-bunked in the gym. One hundred 21 four inmates, two officers. One of the guy -- the 47 1 cage, not on the floor. Two officers -- I asked one 2 of them, if you heard a scuffle down the third row, 3 number one, how would you know what was going on; 4 and number two, what would you do about it? 5 JAMES TILTON: Or who it was. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Or who it was. And 7 they had two convex mirrors to go around a corner. 8 That was -- that was the line of sight for 104 9 inmates. How realistically can you have programs 10 when the gym is full of beds and you have a very 11 high ratio, you're overcrowded, and you can't afford 12 overtime? 13 JAMES TILTON: You're right. And that's 14 one of the reasons I didn't walk into the 15 Legislature and say, by the way, I need $100 million 16 for programming. I got to find a safe environment. 17 But we're finding out that we have the ability to -- 18 give you an example. Had a prison that was locked 19 down for 18 months, if you can imagine. The whole 20 prison was locked down. So we took steps to 21 identify some incentives for inmates to behave. For 48 1 example, those locked-down inmates were still 2 getting all of the services, quote, unquote. So 3 what we did was take away some of those services and 4 said, if you want to integrate and behave and do 5 your time, then we will bring back those. Well, 6 three big facilities. Now, one facility is ready to 7 be opened up. The second one is, it's got some 8 issues. The third one is not working well. But 9 instead of locking down all three of those 10 facilities, we now have one facility that we're 11 bringing the program back in place, we've gone 12 through the inmates. Those inmates are ready now to 13 be willing to have a safe environment. So it's a 14 matter of what I call take back the prison a little 15 bit and reinforce that. You can't do all -- won't 16 be able to turn it overnight, but we're finding that 17 by identifying those inmates who are willing to 18 program and then giving those programs we're having 19 success. It's one of the issues our population is 20 down, we're providing some alternatives. You're 21 right, it's a huge challenge for us in California. 49 1 It's not a build your way out of it, but the most 2 exciting thing for me in California is to build 3 range facilities. As you know, most of our 4 prisoners are out -- it's a nice community, but it's 5 a long ways away from the rest of California. We're 6 building community centers so that inmates will go 7 back into those facilities in their communities up 8 to a year before they get out, and there we will 9 provide 100 percent programs. So we have to 10 prioritize our resource allocation, but we're 11 excited about that and California communities are 12 accepting part of the responsibility when their 13 citizens are coming home. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Does your collective 15 bargaining agreement mention the latitude you need 16 to reduce the overtime? 17 JAMES TILTON: The overtime that we're 18 running, to be honest with you, it's twofold. One, 19 it's driven by the agency. We're addressing that. 20 We also had a major effort in California -- I had a 21 few court cases in California, not the least is the 50 1 thought of which is the medical one. And we're 2 working with that office and they are identifying 3 significant resource allocations to increase 4 resources to move inmates out for medical services. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Out of the institution. 6 JAMES TILTON: Yeah. So that's providing 7 overtime right now as we work with that office to 8 validate, what's the need you have, establish the 9 post, and then we will have the staff. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In other words, you're 11 spending a lot of personnel time escorting folks to 12 ERs and outside medical facilities. 13 JAMES TILTON: That's right. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And a federal trustee 15 is calling the shots so you spend what he says you 16 spend. 17 JAMES TILTON: Well, we have transitions 18 taking place now. We had a receiver who was 19 spending the money, wasn't communicating very well 20 with me. My words. We have a new receiver who has 21 taken a different approach to work with us so that 51 1 we can evaluate an efficient use of resources on 2 that. So I've been very excited in a matter of 3 weeks that we will be working with -- yes, we need 4 to make sure inmates get services, and yes, we will 5 provide that service as part of my responsibility, 6 but we're also working with that office to see if we 7 can do a better job, a more efficient use of those 8 resources and I think we will. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Secretary, you 10 mentioned Doctor Genesis's report of April 27 of 11 last year. As you know, there are 322 random 12 interviews of male inmates, and indicated four 13 percent of them had been sexually assaulted, which, 14 given 180,000 inmates, if that was actually 15 extrapolated across, that's a lot of people getting 16 sexually assaulted. Do you have plans for doing a 17 similar study at women's facilities and what did you 18 learn from Doctor Genesis findings? 19 JAMES TILTON: That's the issue I raised 20 about the transgender inmates, is that was a major 21 focus of that study. We will do some more work on 52 1 addressing policies in terms of housing, addressing 2 that population. We think it's a vulnerable 3 population that we need to take steps in -- I think 4 the rest was less than 1 percent. I think four 5 percent was that population, if I'm not mistaken. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So what you learned 7 from this report was that you needed to do the UC 8 Irving report on transgender? 9 JAMES TILTON: Yes. Look into that 10 population more carefully. The issue for me on this 11 one -- the whole issue here is I've got 33 adult and 12 four or six now depending on -- we're going to pay 13 more attention to this whole issue. I think it's a 14 symptom for me to manage my institution -- the Rape 15 Elimination Act and process is a symptom of creating 16 safe environments in my business. So I'm using this 17 as kind of a lead, it's already here, we're working 18 with it. But the same environment that will create 19 a safe environment for inmates, the reporting of 20 incidents, take proper steps to make sure they are 21 investigated, that we do training, are the same kind 53 1 of things I see necessarily in my institutions to 2 create programming in institutions, to create an 3 environment where staff know who the inmates are. 4 They are so big. Talked about that gym -- we have 5 over 200 inmates and two staff. They don't know 6 those inmates. How do you know who they are? And 7 anonymous inmates are a problem. And so one of the 8 issues we're struggling with, I think, in California 9 is how do you get back, provide that environment 10 where it's safe, where an inmate can do their time, 11 where they can do programming and try to improve 12 their abilities and then provide a better transition 13 out of the system and into the communities with 14 appropriate services so that -- as I say all the 15 time, the ultimate public safety is inmates don't 16 come back because they are now productive citizens. 17 So I'm looking at this entire area as a way for me 18 to test what am I doing in terms of creating that 19 good safe environment, for both staff to work and 20 inmates. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is anybody looking at 54 1 California's sentencing, particularly the high rate 2 of sending parole violaters back to prison even for 3 short periods? Are they looking at alternatives to 4 sending them back? 5 JAMES TILTON: Yes. In fact, my 6 population is down 5,000 in the last six months. 7 It's largely due to the impact I'm having on the 8 violation rate. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In the what, violation? 10 JAMES TILTON: Violation. In other words, 11 we had an environment where if you violated your 12 parole condition, the options were do nothing or put 13 you on a bunk for five months. So we were putting 14 inmates on bunks for five months. But with the 15 support of the Government and Legislature, I put in 16 about 1,800 drug treatment beds recently. We're 17 looking forward to about 200 mental health beds. 18 And so I just asked my parole board and staff, asked 19 the question, is it better to put a person in 20 services or to put them on a bunk? And we're 21 finding by putting in services they are getting more 55 1 supervision. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: These are outside. 3 JAMES TILTON: Outside. So we contracted 4 with programs, and I'm pleased to say that we're 5 taking advantage of that and it's caused my 6 population to be down. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You don't have control 8 over the parole office, so you're getting some 9 cooperation from them? 10 JAMES TILTON: No, parole office is under 11 my jurisdiction. The issue is there were no tools, 12 and so if you're a parole agent and you have no 13 tools, the only tool you had was to put them back in 14 prison. So what we're doing is implementing tools, 15 asking the parole board that looks at parole 16 violations as an administrative body, to ask the 17 question, would this person be better served by a 18 program or sitting on a bunk? When we have services 19 out there, we're finding that they can make a proper 20 decision by putting in the services programs. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'm curious about 56 1 something, sir. In reflecting back on our visit to 2 California and having stepped into that gymnasium 3 with so many inmates and just two guards, I'm 4 wondering, are there morale issues in terms of the 5 safety of your staff? As they go into a workplace 6 environment that is so volatile for them as well, 7 and we talk about over time and those things that 8 impact workers every day, those issues that they 9 take home and that certainly direct their lives. 10 What can you tell us about that? 11 JAMES TILTON: Let me give you a juvenile 12 example because the juvenile justice system is under 13 my purview. And I had a facility that had -- 14 basically was a high-end juvenile population, was a 15 very violent facility under -- courts everywhere. 16 But I was in that facility about a couple months ago 17 and talking to the staff. And what we're trying to 18 do -- we're trying to do two things. We're trying 19 to get the overcrowding down. We're trying to 20 provide tools for the staff. In that case, we had 21 provided some intervention training to staff. And I 57 1 walked in and was talking to one of the officers 2 there and he told me about six months before that he 3 was afraid to come to work. He was afraid to come 4 to work. He says, these inmates here, I don't have 5 control, I'm afraid. And he told me after he had 6 gone through the training, it's not the pantasy of 7 it basically, but he told me, I got some training 8 and I came in this morning and felt the wards had a 9 conflict. He says normally I would have locked -- 10 before I would have locked the place down. But, no, 11 he walked up and started engaging them. Next thing 12 you know they were discussing NASCAR on the TV and 13 how fast the cars go. And he was able to channel 14 their dialogue in a more positive way. I'm not 15 going to say that's reflective of all, but the issue 16 to me is we're trying to fill positions, because we 17 had huge vacancies. I had over 4,000 pushed out. 18 So if you're working double shifts, tired, yeah -- 19 so we're addressing that. The other issue is we're 20 breaking down and providing real tools for the 21 staff. We're -- had some major projects we can't do 58 1 statewide -- we're taking a series of prisons, 2 reception center, GP, parole and starting to move 3 through those -- how do we manage that institution, 4 how do we identify the predators of the inmate 5 population and move them out so we can create a safe 6 environment. Provide real tools for staff to manage 7 that facility, create a safe environment and bring 8 the resources in. As we work through that in terms 9 of training staff how to do that, how to reinforce 10 our management strategies in terms of managing that 11 population, as well as provide the encouragement for 12 good behavior, we see positive results with that. 13 Now, I wish I could tell you I could do that in all 14 my prisons today. I can't. We're demonstrating to 15 staff that we're going to hold inmates to their 16 behavior. And if you are willing to do your time 17 and behave, you get some reinforcement. That is 18 starting to work. And then those inmates who are 19 the predators, we're taking some efforts to try to 20 address that now and get those out of this business. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Secretary, how does 59 1 your department ensure accountability for the 2 implementation of the state and federal PREAs? 3 Whose job description does this responsibility 4 reside on? 5 JAMES TILTON: I hate to point out, but I 6 have an individual who you're going to hear from who 7 is the associate director -- she heads my women's 8 program. At the same time she -- Wendy Still has 9 picked up this as an issue. And Wendy has clear 10 access to me, to these issues, and I look to her to 11 provide guidance to me of what I can do to reinforce 12 the position of the PREA Act. She has been 13 invaluable in that effort, and I'm confident that if 14 she believes the department is not being 15 responsive -- she has taken on this issue very 16 energetically, as well as lots of other issues she 17 has, and so I lean on Wendy to let me know how we're 18 doing and whatever I can do to assist in the 19 implementation of PREA for both the federal and 20 state level. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Finally, you mentioned 60 1 you're working with Stop Prisoner Rape. I had heard 2 that SPR has found it seemingly difficult to get 3 into the facility that we're talking about this 4 morning. Do you -- 5 JAMES TILTON: I had not heard that. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I hope it's not true. 7 Do you have a system-wide policy or mandate that 8 cooperation with community groups, advocacy groups, 9 and others like these should be 100 percent -- 10 JAMES TILTON: Yes. In fact, I just 11 recently established positions in all the prisons 12 and that is going to be their responsibilities, to 13 communicate with locals, as well as bring various 14 providers from the communities into the prisons. 15 It's one of those issues we have put in place. But 16 I haven't heard that. I will follow up on that. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you very much, 18 Mr. Secretary. Appreciate your coming and for your 19 testimony and for your leadership in this area. 20 JAMES TILTON: Thank you. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We will now call the 61 1 next panel. Ms. Wendy Still, who Secretary Tilton 2 was just introducing, as well as Lieutenant Timothy 3 Riddle, Associate Warden Richard Anti, and Staff 4 Nurse Lynn Thomas. Good morning, welcome. Raise 5 your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm 6 that the testimony you'll give the Panel today will 7 be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 8 truth? 9 WITNESSES: I do. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I think, Ms. Still, you 11 wanted to go first. Do you have any comments you 12 want to make first or are you open to questions? 13 WENDY STILL: Actually, I do have a few 14 comments. On behalf of Mr. Tilton, I would just 15 like to provide information that you requested of 16 him relative to the ombudsman's budget. Budget is 17 $1.16 million. Fourteen positions, 11 ombudsmen, 18 one staff services analyst, and one executive 19 assistant. And also, yes, California is 20 participating currently in a study very specifically 21 on women's -- rape in women's institutions and 62 1 sexual assault. Doctor Barbara Owen is the lead 2 researcher on that effort. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When are the results 4 due on that? 5 WENDY STILL: I believe that she is going 6 to have some preliminary results this spring, and 7 I'm not certain her time frame for the actual 8 publication of the final results. Thank you for 9 this opportunity to testify before the Review Panel 10 on Prison Rape. As Secretary Tilton said, I am the 11 overall statewide coordinator, executive project 12 manager for PREA. But as you requested, 13 specifically looking at what is the PREA 14 coordinator's responsibility at Ironwood State 15 Prison, the primary duties, I think it's important 16 to note, are in addition to the staff person's 17 regular responsibility. And his regular 18 responsibility is he's a facility captain, which 19 means he runs a facility. The normal duties of the 20 coordinators are to liaison with headquarters and 21 keep in touch with what the statewide changes are, 63 1 and then take that and communicate with the 2 institution staff at the local level -- and 3 communicate those policy changes. That could be in 4 the form of preparing a memorandum for the warden's 5 signature and then disseminating it to staff. Also, 6 working with the in-service training manager to 7 ensure that the training responsibilities and the 8 training program is on track. Every person working 9 in a California prison mandatorily has to have 10 four hours of training on PREA education, so the 11 coordinator communicates with the IST manager to 12 make sure the lesson plan is up-to-date. Any 13 changes received from headquarters, they are 14 incorporated and revised into the training plan. 15 Also, ensuring that the posters are up and 16 throughout the facility, that the orientation and 17 informational materials, including the inmate's 18 rights, are consistently being provided to the 19 inmate, and the videos are being ran. Also, to work 20 with the PREA education coordinator related to the 21 PREA program on any changes that are needed and 64 1 communicated from down. Also, taking headquarters 2 and identifying challenges and issues, bringing that 3 institutional-level feedback up to headquarters so 4 we're aware of what's going on out in the field and 5 that we can for a system-wide basis attempt to 6 revise our policies and procedures around whatever 7 the issues are. And then also to be familiar with 8 the research results -- for example, you mentioned 9 Doctor Genesis's reports and findings. And then, as 10 they go about their duties, looking for ways in 11 which they can further support our safety programs 12 that we have. And also communicate those ideas. 13 Ours is unique, it has a PREA education and PREA 14 coordinator program so we get a lot of good feedback 15 from the institution. I have not heard that the 16 Stop Prison Rape was having a hard time getting into 17 Ironwood. I have not heard that. We have a very 18 good relationship with Louisa Stannow and also her 19 staff, Linda McFarlane, so we will follow up on 20 that. But it's not been raised to our attention. 21 We have a very good close working relationship with 65 1 them. That's it, thank you. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. Ms. Still, 3 you've read obviously the BJS report on sexual 4 violence. What in your opinion, as the person most 5 familiar with and responsible for implementation of 6 PREA, is the explanation for zero incidents at 7 Ironwood and yet a high incidence at the Valley 8 State Prison and similar other prisons within the 9 same system? 10 WENDY STILL: I think Ironwood, I believe 11 they have a very effective program. I've actually 12 been down to the program, I've met with peer 13 educators -- they are very effective. Not only are 14 they very effective in terms of enhancing the safety 15 related to sexual assaults, but actually teaching 16 the inmates how to protect themselves as they come 17 into the system. They also help protect and provide 18 information on how to not spread STDs and talking to 19 the inmate population. They take that information 20 and share it with their families. So I think it's 21 created the environment and culture not only to 66 1 staff -- well, staff are very dedicated to the 2 program, but also inmates feel very safe about 3 reporting. And it's created that culture -- that is 4 what our goal is, is to have a safe environment. So 5 I think the peer education program has had a major 6 impact. I think our statewide policies that we 7 provided in training tools for both the staff as 8 well as the inmates, you know, knowing their rights, 9 all of that, I think all of those things have had a 10 very positive effect. Taking that and moving over 11 to the women's prison, which I'm very familiar with, 12 Valley State Prison, and why they have a high rate 13 of reported incidents -- if you break down the 14 incidents, it was inmate-on-inmate incidents. And 15 they are touching issues. And I believe that this 16 is a sign that's just indicative of the issues that 17 women bring to prison. They have poor relationships 18 on the outside, they have poor boundary issues, and 19 many of them come from abusive relationships. So 20 they have very significant boundary issues as well 21 as lots of trauma in their lives. And I believe 67 1 that that adds to, when they come in -- we're 2 overcrowded in the women's institution, just like 3 the men's. We were built for four to a dorm and 4 we actually have eight. I believe that that's -- 5 the overcrowdedness is creating a problem. But I 6 also believe we need to develop a successful 7 intervention on teaching women on how to have 8 healthy relationships and how to have improved 9 boundaries. I've actually had some discussions with 10 NIC and the Moss Group about my desire to move 11 forward. We also are participating in the study, 12 the -- Doctor Barbara Owen's study, to further 13 understand. And in addition to that we volunteered 14 Valley State Prison for Women to be one of the 15 institutions or pilots to help set the standards. 16 So we're continuing looking for ways to help improve 17 that safety. As well as staff. The warden at the 18 local level has met with her executive managers and 19 they are doing several things, also, to ensure that 20 their program is on track, which it is with the 21 orientation materials and the brochures, and just a 68 1 heightened educational awareness of staff of what to 2 be looking for and talking to the inmates about. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: A federal grant was 4 awarded to you last -- a year ago, August, for a 5 pilot program to examine the effectiveness of 6 cameras as a deterrent. And Secretary Tilton 7 mentioned you're moving forward with some cameras. 8 We understand those have been purchased, but tell me 9 about the pilot where -- have you increased the 10 number of video surveillance, is it audio as well or 11 just video, and which institutions are participating 12 in the pilot? Ironwood, I understand, is not one of 13 them. 14 WENDY STILL: That's correct. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about Valley State 16 Prison? 17 WENDY STILL: Yes, Valley is one of them. 18 The goal of the pilot is to create a better 19 detection or enhance a detection part of our 20 program, as well as prevention. And one of the 21 elements -- it was actually through an NIC meeting 69 1 that the Moss Group arranged back in Arizona quite 2 some time ago, hearing about what the different 3 states had done. I was very interested in the 4 cameras. I thought that that really -- the use of 5 cameras had some merit and could help us in those 6 two areas, prevention and detection. And so we 7 applied for the grant and received it. The 8 California Correctional Institute up at Tehachapi is 9 one of the pilot institutions. Valley State Prison 10 for Women is another institution. And in our DJJ 11 facility, juvenile facility, at Ventura where the 12 girls are at, is the third institution. And we have 13 the security cameras, we have installed the cameras, 14 and we're just getting ready to go live with them. 15 And the cameras are -- they are monitoring -- we put 16 a work group together to determine where the 17 appropriate placement of the cameras would be at, 18 and we're placing them in areas where we feel that 19 inmates could be in an at-risk situation. And 20 basically it's areas where an inmate could become 21 isolated. Might have, you know, a mop closet or a 70 1 culinary area. Basically, we're going to be like a 2 private room. So the cameras will be monitoring 3 those areas. But also very important is to take 4 into consideration, because they are in the housing 5 units, the inmates' privacy. Privacy is a very big 6 part of their recovery, their self-esteem and 7 self-efficacy. So the way that -- we position the 8 cameras in where the housing units are at so that 9 they can't see into the actual units themselves. 10 Basically, they see the doorways and just can 11 monitor movement in and out so we can see if an 12 inmate was going out of the dorm cell and into 13 another area. But -- 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry, were you 15 finished? 16 WENDY STILL: I was just going to say that 17 we think also the cameras -- what the goal of it is 18 is to measure the incidence of overfamiliarity or 19 reports of assault in the facilities that have -- 20 the facility that has a camera versus a facility -- 21 compared to those that do not. 71 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Aren't cameras only as 2 good as the number of staff that you can afford to 3 have watching them, or is it just a prophylactic 4 effect, they never know if somebody is watching them 5 so it's an inhibitor? 6 WENDY STILL: I think there are two 7 positive aspects to them. One is, yes, absolutely, 8 I think it has a prophylactic effect, but I also 9 think that if you have -- because you do pick up 10 intelligence that something may be going on. You 11 always have the ability to go back to the camera and 12 watch. It's continuous recording, it records to a 13 DVD basically in a computer, and it's retained for 14 30 days. So I think that's also excellent in terms 15 of for an investigative tool. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you find that 17 victims of sexual assault many times will not report 18 the next day, but rather it might be a couple months 19 before they get up the courage to report an 20 incident? And, if so, what good is that tape going 21 to be if it's been erased? 72 1 WENDY STILL: Part of the problem with 2 technology now is the storage-capacity levels of 3 what you need. In terms of -- we're very surprised 4 at that. But I would say that, yes, some don't 5 report for quite some time, and I don't generally 6 find it's two or three months. It can be, you know, 7 periods of time long after that. And it's because 8 of recovery. I mean, it's very traumatic, the 9 assault has a very traumatic effect, and sometimes 10 it's months or even years later that they are 11 willing to say something. But for those incidents 12 that occur, and a majority do -- and the majority of 13 reports do come -- especially in the safer 14 environment that you create in terms of inmate 15 reporting, then the more timely the information will 16 come. But also predators, that's what I consider 17 any staff that basically sexually assaults an 18 inmate, they typically have a pattern also. So it 19 is a very good preventative tool and an 20 investigative tool. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Good morning, 73 1 Ms. Still. Nice to see you again. I recall how 2 helpful you were when we were in California. Is it 3 a crime for a staff member to have consensual sex 4 with an inmate? 5 WENDY STILL: Absolutely it is, because 6 there is no such thing as consensual sex with an 7 inmate. The inmate does not have the power to give 8 consent. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So the degree of the 10 crime, is it a misdemeanor or felony? 11 WENDY STILL: Felony. 12 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Felony. How many of 13 your staff have been criminally charged with sexual 14 misconduct? 15 WENDY STILL: I'm sorry I don't have that 16 information off the top of my head. I'll be glad to 17 get it for the Panel. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And if they were 19 charged, if there is a number there that you can 20 report, what was the range of their sentences, if 21 any; and is staff ever allowed to resign in lieu of 74 1 a full investigation? 2 WENDY STILL: They are absolutely not 3 allowed to resign in lieu of. In the event that 4 there is any type of misconduct and the staff 5 resign, we still complete the investigation and we 6 still, if we have enough material, turn it over to 7 the D.A. for prosecution, irregardless of whether 8 that staff resigns or not. In addition to that, the 9 completed investigation, even if there is not enough 10 to go forward with the prosecution, the completed 11 investigation is retained and notice is in the 12 employee's file. So in the event that the employee 13 ever tries to come back, that information is there 14 and it will prevent that employee from coming back. 15 And in terms of the prosecutions, every case that we 16 can substantiate is referred to the district 17 attorney for prosecution, and then it's up to the 18 D.A. whether they will prosecute or not. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you know of a single 20 correctional officer in your tenure that's been 21 prosecuted successfully for sexual assault? 75 1 WENDY STILL: In my tenure, I don't know 2 of a case off the top of my head. I know that we 3 have had one. I don't know if it was a correctional 4 officer. I know it was a correctional staff. I'll 5 have to get the specifics and get back to you. What 6 we really focus on is -- we focus on ensuring that 7 we identify the behavior, that we do a thorough 8 investigation, and we turn it over to the D.A. and 9 then they take the appropriate action -- and that 10 the staff is barred from ever coming back inside the 11 facility. After it hits the prosecution -- and then 12 what happens to that staff person after that -- 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's out of your 14 hands. 15 WENDY STILL: It's really -- my focus is 16 really on what's happening inside. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Staff sexual misconduct 18 hasn't been a felony for a long time. And do you 19 find that district attorneys are particularly 20 motivated? They have to do the triage, they have to 21 decide what's worth their time and what isn't. Do 76 1 you find that sexual assault by staff or by inmates 2 within an institution is a high priority for D.A.s? 3 WENDY STILL: I think the D.A.s have a lot 4 of cases they have to prosecute. I don't think they 5 have enough resources, and I think the answer to 6 that significantly varies county to county depending 7 upon their priorities and how overburden their case 8 loads are. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have one county 10 in mind in California that is exceptionally astute 11 and motivated, apparently, to prosecute -- at least 12 investigate and to prosecute? 13 WENDY STILL: There isn't one that stands 14 out. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about 16 administrative discipline? Do you know of any CDCR 17 staff, not just correctional officers, who have been 18 administratively disciplined in any facility for 19 staff sexual misconduct? 20 WENDY STILL: Oh, absolutely. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have any idea 77 1 how many? Say in 2006 or 2007? 2 WENDY STILL: I don't have the total 3 number in terms of how many were disciplined. What 4 I will say, and I'll certainly be glad to get you 5 that information, is that staff sexual misconduct, 6 it's one of the most severe types of rule 7 violations, and we take it very seriously. If there 8 is misconduct, staff are terminated, period. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If you could include in 10 your numbers the number that have been terminated 11 for staff sexual misconduct, that would be great -- 12 in any period, 2006, 2007, last ten years, whatever. 13 WENDY STILL: Absolutely. We have that 14 data and I think you'll find that we consistently -- 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This would be very 16 helpful because every prison we're going to hear 17 from this week has a zero tolerance policy. Every 18 one of them look great on paper. To be very frank, 19 it's great to hear the people are committed, but the 20 proof in the pudding is how many folks does this 21 actually get implemented against, if it's happened. 78 1 Not looking for sacrificial lambs, but if your own 2 study indicates four percent of random selected 3 males having sexual assault, one would expect to see 4 some prosecutions and some discipline. That would 5 be the proof in the pudding. 6 WENDY STILL: There will absolutely be a 7 number of terminations. And in addition to that, I 8 want to go back to your question about which county. 9 In -- Madera County has been -- it's been reported, 10 and that's where our two women's prisons are at, in 11 terms of our prosecution. That county does come to 12 mind. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What kind of 14 activities, Ms. Still, would constitute staff sexual 15 misconduct as you understand it? 16 WENDY STILL: Well, any type of -- any 17 type. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When does a pat-down 19 become sexual misconduct? 20 WENDY STILL: Well, California has 21 eliminated cross-gender pat-down searches for women. 79 1 We did that about two years ago. And we did that 2 because of concerns that were raised by the women 3 that the pat down by men was re-traumatizing to them 4 because so many of them have been prior victims of 5 sexual abuse. And we're very pleased with that. 6 It's had a very good effect in terms of managing the 7 population and creating a safer environment and 8 also -- now, in converse, because in the men's 9 prison, men have not been subjected to the same 10 level of trauma as women inmates have, so therefore 11 it is permissible for women to pat search male 12 inmates. So we do have gender-responsive policies 13 and they are each different depending on the gender 14 of -- whether it's the male inmate or the female 15 inmates. And our policies are supported by what's 16 been upheld and tested in the courts. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about a staff 18 verbally degrading -- not touching, but verbally 19 degrading a prisoner in sexual terminology, 20 especially in the presence of other inmates? 21 WENDY STILL: Definitely that would be 80 1 considered a violation of policy, not only from a 2 PREA perspective but also from a respect -- you 3 know, all staff are expected to remain professional 4 and treat each other with dignity and respect. So 5 if they were to be saying things that were of a 6 sexual nature, derogatory -- whether it be 7 derogatory or otherwise, then they would be 8 violating our codes -- 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you think it 10 happens? 11 WENDY STILL: Do I think it happens? 12 Absolutely I do. And I would say, and I hate to 13 admit this, but I would say probably in my women's's 14 prison is where I have the biggest challenge. We 15 actually did something about it because of my 16 concerns. We created 40 hours of training 17 specifically for staff that are working with women. 18 And, on many different levels, it's really important 19 for staff to understand the differences so they know 20 how to deal with them, in addition to providing 21 training and education in terms of how to deal with 81 1 the difference in the populations, the men versus 2 the women. Also taking actions against staff. I 3 mean, that's really where the rubber meets the road, 4 is if staff are mistreating, whether it's verbal 5 mistreatment or any other kind, is taking 6 appropriate action against them because that sends a 7 message. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about withholding 9 privileges, rec time, writing them up for, you know, 10 arbitrarily, unless they provide sexual favors for 11 the officer? Would that be sexual misconduct? No 12 touching, no verbal degrading, just, hey, you're not 13 going to the yard. 14 WENDY STILL: Absolutely. I would deem 15 that as coercion, the behavior. That's how we would 16 classify it. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And that would be a 18 disciplinary violation? 19 WENDY STILL: Yes, it would be. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would that be a crime? 21 WENDY STILL: Well, it depends upon the 82 1 nature of it. If it was being withheld because of 2 sexual -- you know, the staff person wanted sex, 3 absolutely it would be. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about if a staff 5 person wanted to -- had voyeuristic, not any 6 touching but I want to see you in the shower or 7 you're not going to have rec time? 8 WENDY STILL: Yes. Any action that 9 basically is taken against an inmate because -- that 10 is sexual in nature, whether it's touching or not, 11 whether it's voyeurism, whether it's the language 12 even as they're referring to the population, all of 13 those things should be considered a violation of 14 policy. I think we're talking about standards here, 15 and I would fully support that. Because it's all 16 those things that add up to creating an environment 17 where the inmates aren't safe, and it's those 18 building blocks to the actual physical assault. So 19 if you don't stop it in the very beginning, it leads 20 to more and more endangering of that inmate. And 21 any of it is wrong. They come to prison, they're in 83 1 prison to serve their time, period. And they should 2 not be subjected to any of those forms of sexual 3 harassment or misconduct. We're trying to 4 rehabilitate them, we're trying to teach them how to 5 be good citizens. And if we ourselves can't behave 6 as such, how can we expect the inmates to ever 7 rehabilitate themselves? 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How do you separate the 9 alleged predator from the victim? What's the 10 protocol you expect? 11 WENDY STILL: Well, if we have 12 intelligence that we have actual staff sexual 13 misconduct, more often than not the staff person is 14 put out on administrative time off while the 15 investigation ensues. That's one way to quickly get 16 that person out of the prison, working in the 17 prison. And the reason for that is if they would 18 have assaulted one inmate, there is a potential to 19 endanger the safety of others. Sometimes, if we 20 have some intelligence, kind of a different factor 21 is, if we don't know we have enough intelligence to 84 1 really catch someone, we may put them in an 2 administrative area where there's no inmate contact 3 just until we can put them in ISU, investigative 4 services perspective -- develop into enough 5 intelligence for us to determine whether or not 6 there's probable cause that something is occurring. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would it be fair to say 8 that often it's a swearing contest, so to speak, 9 between the credibility of the staff, the alleged 10 predator, and the inmate? The inmate -- the camera 11 shows the CO going into the cell, as you said 12 earlier, can't see in the cell. And there -- he or 13 she is in there for some period of time, and there's 14 a disagreement as to what was going on. What kind 15 of intelligence do you need? I mean, you have an 16 inmate saying he forced me to do such and such, and 17 the CO of course says, no, I was doing a search for 18 contraband. 19 WENDY STILL: Generally, our assaults 20 don't take place in the cells, because in a women's 21 prison, the Valley, which is where the majority of 85 1 the female population is at, other than one smaller 2 prison down south, there is eight women to a dorm. 3 And there's full glass windows as you go down. So 4 there's clear visibility, and I think that provides 5 adequate protection for the women. So that's not 6 typically where an assault would occur. It would 7 occur in a broom closet or some other isolated area 8 where there isn't inmate traffic and clear 9 visibility. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about same-gender, 11 inmate-on-inmate alleged assault? 12 WENDY STILL: Well, inmate-on-inmate 13 alleged assault, now that's where you typically find 14 it does happen in the actual dorm. But to get back 15 to your question of when it comes down to 16 credibility, there is a credibility factor. You 17 have staff and then you have inmates, and you have 18 to have enough proof that something is going on. 19 And each individual incident, it's the totality of 20 circumstances. And even if you can't prove it the 21 first time around, I know our investigative services 86 1 unit is down -- we had an incident at one of our 2 women's prisons, and I was talking with the warden, 3 and what she had talked about is just how closely 4 they monitor, even if they can't prove it the first 5 time around, the staff person's behavior, to ensure 6 that nothing else is going on or, if something is, 7 that we're picking up and detecting it. And there's 8 things -- how you find out about it is just not by 9 the action of what's going on in the prison. I 10 mean, staff, you know, you can find -- there's love 11 notes written or contraband given to the women, or 12 whether it be male or female, special privileges. 13 There are a lot of indicators that our investigative 14 services unit can look for and do to try and prove, 15 versus -- you know, even if it's words, one word 16 against the other, looking for all of those other 17 factors that can prove and demonstrate what was 18 going on. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What do you think the 20 chances are of a fellow officer providing testimony 21 against the alleged predator officer? 87 1 WENDY STILL: I really feel comfortable in 2 saying that, because Secretary Tilton said, our 3 system has done so much work on the code of silence 4 that if one officer knew that another officer was 5 doing anything sexual in nature with an inmate, that 6 they would tell. Because they know not only would 7 that one staff person get fired, they would get 8 fired also. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's the 10 repercussions for the witness. 11 WENDY STILL: Yeah. If they had knowledge 12 and they didn't tell and they didn't do anything 13 about it, absolutely. They are as guilty for 14 protecting. And we don't find that happening now. 15 I mean staff will come forward and they will -- if 16 there's something going on, they will say -- they 17 will tell someone. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is the failure to 19 report a crime? 20 WENDY STILL: Failure to report. I don't 21 think the failure to report is a criminal act, but 88 1 it's certainly an administrative act if it can be 2 proven. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: How quickly and how 4 responsive would staff be to a complaint from an 5 inmate who might be celled with someone who is 6 abusive? Would that happen instantaneously? And 7 how quickly would the system respond to an inmate 8 who reports a staff violation, a misconduct? Is 9 there a downtime when that individual may be left in 10 an environment where intimidation could continue or 11 abuse could continue? Or is that person immediately 12 cordoned out? 13 WENDY STILL: I would say that the rule of 14 thumb is that the person is immediately cordoned 15 out. When I say that -- if there's an allegation 16 about a staff person, I'll describe what happens to 17 that staff person. If there is any type of evidence 18 to prove that it could be true, like I said, more 19 often than not they are often ATO immediately. Now, 20 if an inmate -- I will tell you what the policy 21 says. If an inmate comes forward and complains 89 1 about -- raises concerns about their safety or makes 2 complaints about staff misconduct, we look at the 3 individual circumstance, and that's what our 4 policies say also, because our responsibility is to 5 protect that inmate. And so either we move that 6 inmate to another facility or put that inmate in 7 administrative segregation, because sometimes not 8 knowing -- say for example if it's an 9 inmate-on-inmate issue, you don't know what other 10 inmates may harbor a grudge or take some type of 11 retaliatory action. So the totality of the 12 circumstance is going to determine where you move 13 the inmate to or if you move the inmate. But you 14 will always, per policy, take immediate action to 15 protect or come in and to remove whatever the safety 16 issue is from the -- what was -- what was creating 17 the safety concern. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you, Ms. Still. 19 We're going to now turn to Lieutenant Riddle. Good 20 morning. Do you have any initial statements you 21 want to make? 90 1 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I'm ready for questions. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How long have you 3 worked in corrections, sir? 4 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: 25 years. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long have you 6 worked at Ironwood? 7 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Approximately 14. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is there a SART team at 9 Ironwood? 10 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: There's not a SART team 11 per se. I believe there's only one institution that 12 has the whole assembled team. I do field part of 13 the responsibilities for that team. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What are those 15 responsibilities? 16 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: My responsibilities come 17 into play as soon as there's an allegation made of 18 inmate-on-inmate or staff-on-inmate sexual abuse of 19 any kind. So I respond immediately. Some of my 20 other team members will also respond immediately, 21 assuring the parties are separated, making sure 91 1 evidence is collected. I also ensure that other 2 steps are taken, that he gets taken to an outside 3 hospital, where also evidence will be collected. 4 Just to make sure the whole process works. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What other positions 6 have you had at Ironwood? 7 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I have worked on the 8 facilities as a correctional sergeant. I came to 9 Ironwood as an officer and went into the 10 investigations unit as an officer, promoted to 11 sergeant, was out on the main lines of the field, if 12 you will, came back into the investigation unit as a 13 sergeant, promoted to lieutenant, went back out to 14 the field, spent a year or so out there, and then 15 came back into the investigations unit. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you had duty in 17 one of the residential units at Ironwood? 18 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I've had a lot of 19 contact. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you're well familiar 21 with where the blind spots would be in that 92 1 facility? 2 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Yes, I am. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If you wanted to, as a 4 staff member, wanted to sexually assault or -- or 5 even, quote, consensual activity with an inmate, 6 where would you do it at Ironwood? 7 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: First, let me say that 8 the design of prisons have improved a great deal. 9 When I started at Soledad years ago, there were far 10 more many blind spots. The design and layout gives 11 the staff much greater field of view. There are 12 fewer blind spots. They do exist. For a staff 13 member to do something in a housing unit would 14 almost require them to go either into a cell that 15 had less view of the other officers, which would be 16 difficult because the other officers are watching 17 each other constantly to protect each other. They 18 would have to go into what they call a supply room, 19 or where they keep the cleaning supplies. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What time of day would 21 you want to do that if you were doing it in a 93 1 residential unit? What shift? 2 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: That's difficult to say. 3 I mean there are always other staff that are 4 observing you. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Always the same 6 number -- 7 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: No, it does lessen during 8 first watch, which is 10:00 to 6:00 in the morning. 9 There are less staff; however, it would be a 10 difficult process to pull an inmate out of the cell 11 and then go into a broom closet. The behavior would 12 be so unusual that the control booth officer who is 13 watching the whole unit would take note of that. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Outside of the 15 residential unit then, anywhere in -- that an inmate 16 has access to or could be taken? Where would you 17 want to do that? Where would be the safest place 18 for staff to do that? 19 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Most unseen places are at 20 least monitored by other staff, such as the 21 libraries. 94 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Kitchen. 2 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: The kitchens, back where 3 they prepare the food. There are some education 4 areas that are less monitored where, at times, 5 you'll have a teacher and an inmate student that 6 might even be by themself. That would be the prime 7 opportunity. That's generally during the daytime. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are those teachers 9 taught anything about sexual assault, are they given 10 the PREA training? 11 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Yes, they are. Every 12 employee at Ironwood is given that training. They 13 have what we call block training and they are 14 required to go to the training. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is there any intention 16 that you're aware of -- well, let me ask, is there a 17 need for video cameras at some of these blind spots 18 that you mentioned? 19 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: As an investigator, I 20 would love to see cameras everywhere. I understand 21 the need for privacy also, but I also understand the 95 1 climate that we work in is very dangerous at times. 2 Given the two, you know, I can see a common ground 3 somewhere where there is more cameras. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And obviously the 5 limitations of budget, but where would you most want 6 to put your first cameras at Ironwood? 7 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Well, the thing about 8 Ironwood is, because our sexual staff assault, or 9 inmate-on-inmate, either, is such a low rate, our 10 primary problems are different. Our staffing 11 assaults on inmates, our drug problems, that would 12 place our cameras in different areas. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If we were at Soledad, 14 where would you want to have your first cameras put? 15 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Culinary; in the housing 16 units. Some of the day rooms there in Soledad are 17 very isolated, darker than some are. Those would 18 be -- like the library maybe. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I think Ms. Still said 20 that there are eight to a bunk. Eight to a dorm 21 rather than four. 96 1 WENDY STILL: Only in the women's prison. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That was the Valley. 3 But what's the -- is Ironwood a dorm-style or is 4 it -- 5 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: The only dorm settings we 6 have are in our gymnasiums and in our level-one 7 facility. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the gymnasium has 9 what, medium security? 10 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Medium. Well, generally 11 the inmates that go in there are prime to go to the 12 minimum facility to meet that criteria. But they do 13 live in a level-three environment. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are they triple-bunked? 15 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: We used to have some, I 16 don't think we do any more. Just double. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how many do you 18 have in the gym? 19 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: It varies. The 20 population varies. It generally stays around 160 I 21 think. 97 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: One hundred sixty in 2 the gym. 3 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I think so. He thought 4 it was a little high. Maybe 120. I don't count the 5 inmates too often. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's the environment 7 or culture in -- in your facility as to the topic of 8 sex? In other words, how are -- in the housing 9 units, in the yard, in the dining room, you're going 10 to hear a lot of sexual jokes, monitors, stories. 11 There are going to be sexualized labels, names, 12 folks, either staff or inmates, calling one another, 13 you now, queens or fags or queers or cocksuckers or 14 anything else. Is that -- am I accurate that that's 15 going to happen at Ironwood like any other prison? 16 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I wouldn't say that it 17 doesn't happen, because, you know, people are 18 people. I will say that it has improved 19 dramatically over the years. Years ago it was much 20 worse. Training has had a great improvement on 21 that. Our disciplinary process has made a big dent 98 1 in that because they know the consequences. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What are the 3 consequences for a staff person who uses sexualized 4 or derogatory -- keep it to sexualized comments, 5 jokes, labels, towards an inmate? 6 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: It's taken very seriously 7 because it's considered harassment. It will not be 8 tolerated. As soon as the conduct is discovered, 9 actions are taken. More than likely that officer 10 will be removed from that position. We will 11 investigate it, because if those comments are being 12 made, we're wondering, well, what else is going on? 13 Investigate that. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In your 14 years at 15 Ironwood, how many -- how many of your fellow staff, 16 including officers, have been disciplined in that 17 way for that reason? 18 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: It would be hard for me 19 to give you a number. There have been more than 20 several. Ranging from love letters to touching 21 to -- had an officer who received a tattoo. The 99 1 variety of conduct is pretty wide-ranged, but it's 2 all been handled the same way, I would say. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Several in your 14 4 years. 5 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I would say it's higher 6 than several. I can't give you an accurate number. 7 I would have to research the documents to find that. 8 Fourteen years, if I had to give an estimate, 9 probably 15 to 20. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what do you expect 11 or what do you find at Ironwood is the response of 12 other officers if one officer labels an inmate a 13 queen or something else of a sexualized nature? Do 14 you expect the officers -- in fact, do the officers 15 run and tell the lieutenant, or do they just smirk 16 and pretend they didn't hear it or something in 17 between or what? 18 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I would say that a 19 majority is reported. We do get a lot of reports 20 from inmates as well as staff. Like I said, the 21 climate has changed a lot over the years, where they 100 1 know that there's going to be discipline, you know, 2 you cover up a -- 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who would get those 4 reports? 5 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Ultimately -- again, it 6 would be the facility lieutenant probably, or 7 sergeant, and go through the chain of command and 8 end up in my hands. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you're going to know 10 at Ironwood every -- ultimately every accusation or 11 report of staff sexual harassment -- 12 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I should be, yes. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And it's your testimony 14 that 15 to 20 folks have been disciplined at 15 Ironwood for some kind of sexual harassment? 16 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Over the past 14 years. 17 It's a very rough number. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But there would be 19 written records of that? 20 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Yes. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And is that something 101 1 we can see? 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'm wondering, do 3 you -- do you have reports coming from gay men who 4 are in prison, transgenders? Do you have a number 5 of complaints of sexual abuse coming from those 6 populations? 7 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I believe we have 8 received a few. I don't believe our population on 9 those aspects are very high, that I'm aware of. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are there any special 11 kinds of protections that you have in place for 12 individuals? 13 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I know they are monitored 14 very closely. The staff in the housing units are 15 very aware of who they are, they watch them closely 16 because they know the likelihood of them being 17 approached is much higher. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant Riddle, you 19 provided us with an evaluation of complaints in 20 calendar 2006, and there are six summarized. I had 21 questions about four of them. Are you familiar 102 1 with, for example -- well, is the identity of those 2 complainants something you would like to keep 3 confidential? 4 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Absolutely, if possible. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So should I use a 6 number or just hand you the, you know, the summary 7 that you provided? 8 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Well, if I hear the 9 details of what happened, I should recall it. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what about the 11 officers that are involved, their names need to be 12 withheld as well? 13 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Yeah, our investigative 14 files are highly confidential. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, one event 16 involves allegation of an officer who abruptly 17 touched an inmate's penis as he conducted a clothed 18 body search. And we're wondering if there is any 19 relationship between the investigator in that 20 case -- occurred allegedly on January 23, 2006 -- 21 any relationship between the investigating 103 1 lieutenant, who was not yourself, and the subject of 2 the investigation, that correctional officer alleged 3 to have done this improper search. Do you have that 4 document in front of you there? 5 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I believe I got it. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It's entitled -- the 7 document is entitled Evaluation of CDCR-Ironwood 8 Prison Inmates' Complaints, Calendar Year 2006. If 9 you don't have it, we will come back to it, I'll get 10 a copy of it made for you. 11 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Just trying to make sure 12 I had the right one. Could you say the date of 13 that? 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: January 23, 2006. 15 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: That's the date of the -- 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Of the allegation. The 17 alleged incident was to have occurred on that date. 18 And after appeal through all three levels, a 19 disposition was that it was denied on July 26, '06. 20 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I'm not sure if I'm 21 finding that. 104 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'll come back to those 2 and we will get you a copy. In your experience, 3 Lieutenant Riddle, who are the inmates who are most 4 vulnerable, most likely to be victimized in a 5 prison? 6 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: What I've seen in the 7 past is generally younger, first-term inmates for 8 the most part. They are not familiar with inmate 9 politics too well. They are seen as being weaker. 10 They are not as experienced in the system as some of 11 the other ones are, so they are more easy to take 12 advantage of. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about 14 developmentally disabled? 15 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Absolutely. I haven't 16 seen too much of that. Generally, those inmates are 17 not -- don't want to say tormented, but they are not 18 really picked on as much as you might think. At 19 least in my experience. In fact, I've seen other 20 inmates protect those inmates. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is gang membership an 105 1 issue? 2 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: It's a very big issue. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Why is that? Well, I 4 mean an issue with respect to your likelihood of 5 being victimized or not? 6 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Yes, absolutely. 7 Especially in, and I believe this to be true in most 8 of the southern prisons, they have a very high 9 Hispanic gang population. Their own internal 10 politics are very strict on any kind of sexual 11 behavior. We've had numerous stabbings where if 12 someone comes in, the crime they committed on the 13 street is sexually related, they will stab them. 14 They don't tolerate that kind of behavior. Exactly 15 what generated that philosophy is kind of up for 16 speculation, maybe it's their home values they 17 receive when they are younger. I don't know. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So sex offenders, those 19 who are in for a sex offense, they are targeted. 20 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: They are often targeted. 21 Every once in a while they will give them a chance 106 1 to leave the facility, to lock up so to speak, or 2 seek safety protective custody, as they used to call 3 it. Sometimes they will just stab them. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about a new fish 5 that does not have, to your knowledge -- have a gang 6 affiliation? Does that person run the risk of being 7 more vulnerable because there's less likelihood of 8 retaliation or protection by gang members? 9 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: That's a possibility. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That hasn't been your 11 experience? 12 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Not really. Like I said, 13 it has declined over the years. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What has declined over 15 the years? 16 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Sorry? 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sorry, what has 18 declined over the years? 19 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Oh, it seems, from what 20 I've seen, that the rape rate has declined a little 21 bit over the years from what I've seen in the past. 107 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The rate of 2 inmate-on-inmate assault? 3 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Yes. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: In terms of those 5 people who come in and are most vulnerable, or for 6 anyone coming in, any inmate coming into the system, 7 what kind of orientation are they provided with, a 8 realistic orientation? I know that they receive a 9 lot of instruction regarding their life in prison, 10 but what kind of realistic down and dirty 11 orientation do they receive just about the issues 12 we're talking about? From officials, not necessary 13 other inmates. 14 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I think that one of the 15 best things I've seen at Ironwood is, after they 16 have come into the receiving and release unit, they 17 see the video and everything, they go to a 18 centralized location, into a housing unit, which is 19 called the reception housing unit, where they are 20 classified and go over the different directions. 21 There's some very good officers that work in that 108 1 unit, and I believe they spend a lot of time 2 communicating to those inmates, getting them 3 adjusted to Ironwood and what they will be facing, 4 how the programs work and those types of things. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant, if a 6 staff-on-inmate assault is alleged, when does the 7 correctional officer or the correctional staff, who 8 is accused, see the witness's or victim's 9 statements? At what point in the process are they 10 supposed to be given a victim statement? 11 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Not until far in the 12 process, because the reports are collected and 13 evidence is collected. The warden will tell me to 14 generate what we call a 989, which is an 15 authorization to conduct an investigation or request 16 to conduct an investigation. We send that to our 17 central intake unit, which is the Office of Internal 18 Affairs. They look at it, make a determination 19 whether actually it should require an investigation. 20 Once they approve it, it's sent to Southern Region 21 investigators. They investigate the matter. After 109 1 that investigation is completed, it comes back to 2 the institution to our employer relations officer, 3 and then they confer with the warden and come to a 4 decision. Some point after that, there's a hearing 5 that takes place. They don't see those documents 6 until that hearing takes place. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: As a practical matter, 8 though, is there anything secretive in prison among 9 the staff? Has it been your experience that the 10 accused actually doesn't know who has accused him or 11 her of the assault? 12 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: That's pretty rare. I 13 mean people know things, especially the people that 14 might have witnessed it. Are they supposed to talk 15 about it? No. If we find out they do, we deal with 16 that as well. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And I notice on one of 18 the documents that you provided there is a reporting 19 telephone line to OIA, internal affairs. 20 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Yes. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is this used by 110 1 inmates? 2 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Yes, they have used it -- 3 had responses back from the Office of Internal 4 Affairs. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Staff use it? 6 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Not that I've ever heard 7 of. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Staff hasn't been 9 beating down the doors to call internal affairs 10 about their fellow staff person? 11 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: No, sir. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, it turns out that 13 the -- actually, the documents have -- that I was 14 going to give you have some of our work product on 15 it, so we're going to just have to -- what would you 16 suggest? 17 ROBERT SIEDLECKI: Give them the case 18 number. 19 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: That will help. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have that? Do 21 you have the -- any of those investigation reports? 111 1 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I see the appeals that 2 were executed on that. I have six in front of me. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, the first one 4 involves a -- the rough touching over a clothed body 5 search. Do you have that there? 6 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Make sure I have the 7 right one here. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Occurring allegedly on 9 January 23, '06. 10 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Okay. Sir, I have that 11 one. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you remember being 13 involved in this investigation? 14 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I don't believe I was. I 15 think my predecessor was more involved in this one. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How long have you been 17 the equivalent of the sergeant -- had your sexual 18 assault responsibilities at Ironwood? 19 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I had those 20 responsibilities for quite a while. However, there 21 was a period when I made lieutenant that I was in 112 1 and out of the unit and there was also another 2 investigative lieutenant there. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you look at the 4 third case, which is -- alleges an incident during 5 the third week of March of '06, and first two weeks 6 of April, '06? Do you have that? 7 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Third one? 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah, it was denied on 9 January 29 of last year. 10 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Okay, I believe I see 11 that. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This involves -- as you 13 were testifying earlier, about the culinary 14 location. This involves a verbal exchange with a 15 correctional officer. Were you involved with this, 16 do you remember this particular investigation? 17 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I don't believe so. You 18 have to understand that part of the process of the 19 appeals is it does go through this investigative 20 process. If it's determined by the investigator and 21 the higher staff member that no further actions -- 113 1 if they don't sustain the allegations here, it may 2 not make it to my office. It does not each time. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Just given the 4 information about the number of witnesses, for 5 example, there were at least -- there were some 6 disparities among the inmate witnesses, at least 7 three of whom, in addition to the inmate 8 complainant, made allegations of the inappropriate 9 sexual behavior by the correctional officer. But 10 those witnesses' testimony were -- was discounted. 11 And, of course, I think it would be fair to say the 12 traditional behavior of many inmates, if not most, 13 is not to get involved, so the observations of the 14 four other witnesses employed in the kitchen that 15 they didn't -- didn't hear anything is not too 16 surprising. Is it common and appropriate to 17 discount the observations of multiple witnesses to 18 staff sexual misconduct? 19 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I don't think it's 20 common. I think what happens is -- what lieutenants 21 are taught, and sergeants actually do these queries, 114 1 is to look at the circumstances as a whole. They -- 2 when they interview these inmates, they have to find 3 out were they really in the area, were the other 4 ones that aren't saying anything, were they in the 5 area just not saying anything? Or, you know, 6 someone is saying yes, I saw it happen and weren't 7 even assigned to that area, weren't even there that 8 day, is a big contributing factor to things such as 9 this. Generally, if I might add, these statements 10 seem very simple. If you're going to get really 11 good testimony from someone on something they have 12 seen, generally you get a little more detail about 13 what happened -- some verbal exchange or even 14 physical actions, things as simple as where they 15 were sitting or standing, and tell you if they 16 actually saw what they saw. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Several of these 18 incidents occurred in the C facility. Is that 19 facility known to be a bit more tolerant of 20 unacceptable sexual harassment? 21 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Not that I'm aware of. 115 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Only question I would 2 have -- in the first instance that we discussed, the 3 first case, is the accused individual still 4 employed, and have there been any other allegations 5 against him that you can tell us? 6 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: On the first one? 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes, the first one. 8 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: Can I go back to that 9 real quick? 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yeah. 11 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: I believe that employee 12 had one other instance of something of a verbal 13 nature a few years ago. I believe it was -- let's 14 see the date on that. I believe it was before this 15 date, if my memory serves me correctly. I know it 16 was investigated; I believe that the findings were 17 not substantiated, if I can remember correctly. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you'll be able to 19 provide us with the number of staff that have been 20 disciplined during your tenure at Ironwood for any 21 kind -- 116 1 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: The ERO's office can, for 2 the disciplinary aspect. Because I don't do the 3 business -- 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's the ERO? 5 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: That's the employer 6 relations officer. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, thank you, 8 Lieutenant Riddle. I think we're out of questions. 9 But we want to get to Associate Warden Anti. Thank 10 you for your patience, Warden. Is there anything 11 you wanted to clarify or mention to us? 12 RICHARD ANTI: Only thing I might clarify. 13 When you were talking to Lieutenant Riddle -- you 14 have different officers who conduct business 15 differently. Some people are very black and white, 16 go by all the rules and regulations, and other 17 people are a little more tolerant and give a little 18 leeway. A lot of times if one person is very black 19 and white, we see more complaints regarding that 20 person because the inmates don't like them. And by 21 filing the appeals, a lot of times they are trying 117 1 to get that person removed from that area so that 2 they can conduct the business that they want. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's helpful. Just 4 for the record, Mr. Anti, what are your 5 responsibilities at Ironwood? 6 RICHARD ANTI: I'm the associate warden, 7 acting, central operations. Central operations is 8 tasked with filling the watches and security outside 9 the prison. Each facility is run by an individual 10 captain. Two facilities are under other individuals 11 that oversee that. So I have the armory, visiting, 12 the watch office, inmate assignment, personnel 13 assignment, the outside patrols, all under my 14 jurisdiction. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Inmate assignment and 16 staff assignment. 17 RICHARD ANTI: Yes, sir. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you would be the 19 responsible officer at Ironwood to decide on housing 20 assignments, bedding assignments, for inmates. 21 RICHARD ANTI: When they come in through 118 1 R&R, which falls under mine -- yes, we do the 2 intake, we determine through several different 3 things, not versus just the race and gang 4 association, where they can be housed. All inmates 5 arriving at Ironwood State Prison initially go to 6 C-1, which is our intake building. At that time, 7 within 14 working days they are classified and then 8 they are put out to one of the four facilities or to 9 our local one, which is Ironwood. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many new prisoners 11 will arrive at a given time? 12 RICHARD ANTI: It depends on our intake, 13 what they are doing, what the State is doing, the 14 intake that we're taking in. We don't have a -- I 15 know you're looking for like a number like 40 a 16 week. We have had intake of 180 in one week and as 17 low as ten on another week. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And would they come -- 19 would they come in one bus or -- 20 RICHARD ANTI: No, normally several buses. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Over a number of days. 119 1 RICHARD ANTI: Over the week, yes, sir. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: At any one time what's 3 the most new fish that you would have arriving? 4 RICHARD ANTI: You mean off a bus? 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Off a bus. How many 6 folks are you going to have to place at one time, 7 find beds for? 8 RICHARD ANTI: We have had four buses 9 arrive in one day, and that was 120 inmates. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And do you have a tool 11 by which you use to determine how to assign them, 12 where to assign them? 13 RICHARD ANTI: As I said, all inmates go 14 into C-1, our intake building, and we fill out the 15 form, the 1882. We interview the inmate. The 1882 16 initial housing review is done by either a sergeant 17 or lieutenant -- goes through what they are in there 18 for, committed offense, gang association, how long 19 they are in for, if they are parole violated return 20 to custody. It also has their age, race, religion. 21 We look at all these factors when we try to put the 120 1 inmates together. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about medical 3 history? 4 RICHARD ANTI: Yes, medical is also there. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How much medical 6 history do you typically get from the referring 7 agency, be it jail or prison? 8 RICHARD ANTI: That goes to the medical 9 department. All inmates are interviewed by an R.N. 10 at the reception center, and they are the ones that 11 tell us if there is any medical restrictions we have 12 to be aware of such as low tier -- anything along 13 those lines. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about sexual 15 assault? 16 RICHARD ANTI: We ask on this form, the 17 1882, we actually ask that, "While incarcerated or 18 jailed in prison have you ever been sexually 19 assaulted, i.e. pressured, fondled, raped, as a 20 victim, as an assailant, non-inmate claims or 21 documents." We review the C file for that. 121 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Other than asking the 2 inmate that question, do you have any corroborating 3 information in front of you when you make your 4 housing classification? 5 RICHARD ANTI: We're looking at their 6 central file, their documentation. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would the central file 8 have information about sexual assault? 9 RICHARD ANTI: If the inmate has been in 10 before, yes. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about the jails, 12 are the jails telling you? 13 RICHARD ANTI: Yes, the jails now are 14 putting into the files that come in any infractions 15 that happen in the jail because we award 16 disciplinary points for that when we figure out the 17 classification score at the reception center. So if 18 they have been a victim there, then we're notified. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When did that start? 20 When did you start learning from L.A. County Jail 21 about whether an individual had been sexually 122 1 assaulted under their custody? 2 RICHARD ANTI: I can't give you an exact 3 date. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Year ago, 20 years ago? 5 RICHARD ANTI: You're talking -- the 6 reception centers are the ones that primarily handle 7 that, and we're not a reception center. I mean, we 8 have been cognizant of it for a long time, the jails 9 have worked with us very well. In fact, if they 10 have an inmate that is a special need inmate for 11 whatever reason, say he was raped or sensitive need, 12 high priority -- notoriety or something like that, 13 they normally -- I've been in the department 15 14 years, so, you know, I've seen it during that time. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you ask -- does 16 anybody ask, either at intake or the reception 17 center, about sexual orientation of the inmate, the 18 new inmate? Do you ask them if they are gay, ask if 19 they are lesbian, do you ask them if they're 20 transgender? 21 RICHARD ANTI: That would be at the 123 1 reception center. I'm not sure exactly how they 2 approach that. Most inmates when they come into 3 Ironwood, you know, if they have a certain housing 4 criteria that they are requesting, if it's not 5 obvious, you know, like a transgender or something 6 that's going through, you know, right now they will 7 normally bring it up. Because each one is 8 interviewed privately in a room so that they can 9 say. One of the questions we ask, do you have any 10 safety concerns, is there anything we haven't 11 covered that you want to bring forward, any special 12 needs? Medical as well. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The question of sexual 14 orientation doesn't appear on the 1882, does it? 15 RICHARD ANTI: No, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So unless it was 17 volunteered in that -- by the inmate, and the inmate 18 knew that that was relevant information, it's not 19 going to be asked by the staff; is that right? 20 RICHARD ANTI: Yes, sir. They will be 21 treated appropriately unless they bring something 124 1 forward that's going -- that we have to look at 2 different housing. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Obviously you feel it 4 shouldn't be asked? 5 RICHARD ANTI: I didn't say that, ma'am. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Well, should it be 7 asked? 8 RICHARD ANTI: We're not -- it's part of 9 what we're taking into our housing. If they are 10 bringing it forward and feel that because of their 11 gender, or sexual preference, that they need special 12 housing, then we will look at it that way. But we 13 have to take everything into consideration when 14 we're housing these inmates. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How long might they be 16 in C-1, the intake, before their final housing 17 classification is done? 18 RICHARD ANTI: They have to be classified 19 within 14 working days. That's a mandate, sir. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So if the inmate did 21 not volunteer the information that he had been 125 1 sexually assaulted or that he was a sexual predator, 2 that inmate would be housed for up to almost three 3 calendar weeks in C-1 without any special 4 arrangements having been made to protect him; is 5 that correct? 6 RICHARD ANTI: Just like any other inmate, 7 sir, he's counted as visual officers walking by 8 visually checking on him, 24/7. We count five times 9 a day. The officers in the reception center, or the 10 reception unit, are a little more aware to look for 11 signs of new inmates coming in that have not been in 12 the system before. Because not only do you have to 13 look at this, but you have to look at suicide, 14 mental health issues. So when they go to the 15 showers, or if an inmate is refusing to shower, that 16 will send up a signal. When you're taking their 17 meals -- we have to visually see them when we're 18 counting them and talk to them. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When four buses with 20 120 inmates roll in one day, how much time does your 21 staff have with each of them to make their housing 126 1 classifications during that 14-day period? How much 2 time would they typically spend interviewing? 3 RICHARD ANTI: Well, they are interviewed 4 in R&R and this form is filled out, and then they go 5 to the housing unit, to C-1. At that time, if the 6 inmate brings up the problem, the floor staff with 7 supervisors on that facility would then deal with it 8 or make housing arrangements. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: R&R is the reception 10 center? 11 RICHARD ANTI: No, that's receiving and 12 release. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Receiving and release. 14 And is that under your jurisdiction? 15 RICHARD ANTI: Yes, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you're familiar with 17 what they do and don't ask in R&R? 18 RICHARD ANTI: Pretty much, sir. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Just so I'm clear, 20 before a final housing classification is made during 21 that 14 working day period -- 127 1 RICHARD ANTI: Excuse me, that's 14 2 calendar days. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Calendar days. During 4 that two weeks before the housing classification is 5 finalized, what information beyond the questions on 6 the 1882 form do you have and you deem relevant to 7 have to make that classification, other than what 8 the individual volunteers when you ask the open 9 question, is there anything else you want to tell 10 us? 11 RICHARD ANTI: The counselors have to go 12 through the central file and present -- and they do 13 a workup. At that time, they again present all the 14 relevant information, the case factor, the history, 15 their age. And that is presented before a chair 16 person, which has to be chaired at the level of 17 facility captain or above -- captain or above. 18 During that, you have a CC-2, CC-1, and a captain 19 minimum, on that panel. You can also have the 20 education department there. ISU often has 21 representatives there. 128 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: ISU, sorry? 2 RICHARD ANTI: Investigation services 3 unit. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That would be 5 Lieutenant Riddle? 6 RICHARD ANTI: His staff; not him. He's 7 got too much else to do. And also, we have the 8 input from the officers in C-1. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have 10 administrative segregation or protective custody? 11 RICHARD ANTI: We have administrative 12 segregation, yes, sir. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And is that under your 14 jurisdiction? 15 RICHARD ANTI: No, sir, that's under 16 facility A captain -- I believe facility A and B. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who is the AW, 18 associate warden, who makes the decisions about who 19 comes and goes out of that segment? 20 RICHARD ANTI: No, he doesn't make the 21 decision on that, sir. 129 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: He just oversees. 2 RICHARD ANTI: He oversees the housing. 3 If an inmate is placed into administrative 4 segregation, that has to be at the level of 5 captain -- I mean lieutenant or above, that assigns 6 the 114-D segregation notice. Then the captain the 7 next day will go and either make a determination 8 within one working day to retain that inmate or 9 release him. If he retains them, then within ten 10 days he has to be seen by the institutional 11 classification committee, which is chaired by either 12 the warden or the chief deputy or his designee, and 13 they are the ones who make the determination whether 14 to make him stay or leave. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is your ad seg unit 16 overcrowded? 17 RICHARD ANTI: Do we have an overflow? 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. 19 RICHARD ANTI: At this particular time, 20 yes. When I left there we had ten inmates in 21 overflow. 130 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That means that they 2 are where? 3 RICHARD ANTI: They are in a building 4 adjacent to it. They are A-4 and A-5. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how many to a cell? 6 RICHARD ANTI: Two to a cell; same as in 7 ad seg. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I understand -- final 9 question. What is the day -- does the ad seg unit 10 look like? Is it 23-hour-a-day lockdown, one hour 11 out? 12 RICHARD ANTI: No, sir. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No. What does a day in 14 the shoe look like -- ad seg look like? 15 RICHARD ANTI: They get two hot meals a 16 day, breakfast and dinner. Then a bagged lunch. 17 They also have rotation for shower -- one shower 18 every three days. They also have yard privileges, 19 which is normally a three-hour block, and they have 20 to have ten hours within a week. So they go to the 21 yards at different times. 131 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: With the general 2 population? 3 RICHARD ANTI: No, these are all 4 administrative segregation yards. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Which is your own 6 fenced area? 7 RICHARD ANTI: Yes, sir. Also -- then 8 they also have medical appointments they go to, they 9 have law library, classification, and visiting on 10 the weekends, and that's behind glass. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about any 12 programming? 13 RICHARD ANTI: Programming how, sir? 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? 15 RICHARD ANTI: Programming as in what? 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: As in do they attend 17 any vocational training, any kind -- 18 RICHARD ANTI: No, sir. We do have mental 19 health in there. They are very actively working in 20 there, medical in there, and then mental health as 21 well. 132 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about their job 2 assignment, their yard job assignment? I take it 3 they are excused from that as well. 4 RICHARD ANTI: No, they are required -- 5 removed from it per se. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And would an inmate 7 who -- who would be put into the administrative 8 segregation? 9 RICHARD ANTI: There is three reasons for 10 an inmate to be placed in administrative 11 segregation. One, safety and security to the 12 institution. If he batters another inmate or 13 something along the line, that line. Safety of 14 self. Inmate comes up and says, I can't stay out 15 here, I owe drugs, I'm being pressured for sex, 16 whatever. And the third is preserve the integrity 17 of an ongoing investigation. And the fourth is if 18 there's no other housing available in the 19 institution, inmate is received in R&R and we need 20 to house them somewhere. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you could have an 133 1 alleged victim of sexual assault in ad seg? 2 RICHARD ANTI: Yes, sir. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And would they be 4 treated any differently than an alleged predator, 5 sexual predator? 6 RICHARD ANTI: They would make sure mental 7 health was there and they were observed. We now 8 have in ad seg -- all inmates coming into 9 administrative segregation have a 15-minute check 10 for two weeks to make sure that the confinement 11 isn't causing them to have a mental problem that 12 could possibly lead to suicide. Those 15-minute 13 checks are documented and monitored and collected. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But as far as any of 15 the other conditions that you just described about 16 life in the ad seg, it's not going to differ between 17 an alleged victim and an alleged predator? 18 RICHARD ANTI: No. Unless mental health 19 says that he needs to be moved or re-housed in a 20 different area. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you very much, 134 1 Associate Warden. Ms. Thomas, thank you for being 2 with us. Thank you for your patience in waiting. 3 How long have you worked in corrections? 4 LYNN THOMAS: This would be 13 years. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long at 6 Ironwood? 7 LYNN THOMAS: Thirteen years total 8 Department of Corrections and I've been at Ironwood 9 that entire time. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When do you have direct 11 communication with inmates? 12 LYNN THOMAS: I'm a public health nurse 13 there, so I overlook all the infectious disease 14 cases. I see them at clinics. If I'm called over 15 to the reception center, an inmate comes in with 16 concerns, the reception center nurse will call me -- 17 concerns that something is in the medical file that 18 might be a public health issue, I'll interview them, 19 talk with them. I conduct a peer education program 20 at the prison. I train inmates regularly at the 21 prison. Between medical clinics and interviewing 135 1 them for sexually transmitted disease, whether they 2 have syphilis, gonorrhea, HIV, hepatitis, I'm 3 interviewing them and counseling them and discussing 4 their health issues and referring them to better 5 medical care. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do inmates need to take 7 the initiative to request a sick call or something? 8 LYNN THOMAS: They present a form to -- a 9 medical request form to us. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you make rounds? 11 LYNN THOMAS: I was going to address a 12 couple things. You did say about the two weeks in 13 that C-1. The nurse is coming through twice a day. 14 There is a nurse assigned on the C facility. She 15 needs to go in there twice a day to do rounds. And 16 she goes to every new arrival, to their window, and 17 collects -- asks them, do they have a form to fill 18 out the medical requests? They go around and 19 collect those forms twice a day in that facility 20 specifically, and that will happen even when the 21 prison is on lockdown. 136 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Does the inmate have to 2 ask for a form? 3 LYNN THOMAS: It's available in the 4 housing units. They're readily available. There's 5 also a request for interview. I get a lot of those, 6 where they just have questions about their -- they 7 don't really want to see the doctor per se. They 8 have questions on how this disease -- what about my 9 family, what about this? And they can just have an 10 interview and bring them in to talk. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are you trained as a 12 SANE nurse? 13 LYNN THOMAS: Say that one again. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are you a SANE nurse? 15 LYNN THOMAS: No, I'm not. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sexual assault nurse 17 examiner? 18 LYNN THOMAS: I try to be sane, but not 19 S.A.N.E. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You appear to be. What 21 about rape kits. Do you have rape kits? 137 1 LYNN THOMAS: The rape kits, I believe 2 investigations -- 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant Riddle has 4 the rape kits? 5 LYNN THOMAS: Yes. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And going back to 7 Lieutenant Riddle. What training have you and your 8 staff received about use of rape kits? 9 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: We have training, which 10 is a basic and advanced detection training. We've 11 also gone to Mericose pathology to be recertified as 12 an evidence technician. They cover that -- the rape 13 situations, photography, evidence collection. 14 Primarily, we rely on the R.N.s that are certified 15 to do the actual rape kit collection. Once they 16 have got all that collected, sealed and signed, and 17 make sure it's taped up correctly and everything, we 18 will take it from them, take control of it, and make 19 sure the chain of custody is intact and take it to 20 the Department of Justice of California where they 21 process it. 138 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Thomas, maybe you 2 could walk -- if you would, walk us through the 3 process when you get a sick call notice or somebody 4 slips you a note on rounds saying, I've been raped, 5 I've been assaulted, I need to see you. What do you 6 do? 7 LYNN THOMAS: That's going to be 8 immediate, you know, response. That's not going to 9 be waiting for another timeframe. We immediately 10 take them out of their cell, wherever they have 11 addressed that situation, the nurse will have them 12 escorted to medical and begin the process of 13 immediate evaluation. If they begin to tell us that 14 it was more than 72 hours since the incident, you 15 know -- again we're going to be calling 16 investigations right away, we're going to be calling 17 the doctor on-call, the watch commander. And 18 depending on if this has just happened and evidence 19 collection needs to take place, or did this happen 20 prior to coming here, mental health is going to be 21 brought in immediately. We're going to be -- 139 1 there's immediate -- if this just occurred, of 2 course we're going to begin the steps of our 3 checklist discussed: was there traumatic injury; do 4 they need to be seen at a hospital immediately for 5 traumatic injury; and do they need HIV prophylactic 6 medication or not? Is this something that just 7 happened? We're going to go through the complete 8 steps for that. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How old would the 10 incident have to be before a -- some kind of a 11 forensic exam, physical exam, would be unfruitful? 12 LYNN THOMAS: That's going to be 13 determined -- we're going to be speaking to the 14 forensic SART location that we have a contract with. 15 We go to Pioneer Hospital, to Eisenhower Hospital, 16 Riverside Hospital, and that would be spoken with 17 that SANE nurse. She will be determining -- I want 18 him brought in anyway right now, bring the evidence 19 and go on and process. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's been your 21 experience as to how many hours or days a forensic 140 1 examination is desired or necessitated by the 2 on-call hospitals? 3 LYNN THOMAS: To be honest with you, at 13 4 years, I've not had one in my shifts working at the 5 prison. I've not had one rape or sexual assault 6 case come through while I am there, and even heard 7 of. If it wasn't first watch when I'm not there, I 8 believe we're investigating it immediately. The 9 patient would be given to investigative services. 10 Also, again, they are calling to the SART location 11 and they are telling us that they want him brought 12 in or not. It's kind of determined by these 13 specialists. Again, if this patient was -- if it 14 happened before, a year ago, mental health -- we 15 have a request form immediately, we just make a 16 phone call. Mental health is there and we would be 17 seeing that patient right away. It would be under 18 our direct supervision, make sure they are in no 19 harm's way. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Am I to understand 21 that you're saying you have not had a case? 141 1 LYNN THOMAS: Per se for myself to 2 witness. That they did not go out immediately or 3 not, I cannot -- I have not seen a case of rape or 4 sexual violation between inmates. When there was an 5 allegation of one, the inmate -- I know they just 6 said may be a possible sexual assault. Again, that 7 patient was immediately -- the process was started, 8 the patient was taken out of our institution. I 9 think in retrospect I heard that it was not. The 10 patient wanted protective custody and he wanted to 11 get out of the situation and get off the yard. And 12 sometimes they will use that to get out of their 13 housing unit or their yard or something like that. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: But there would be a 15 protocol in place if one occurred to allow you to 16 swing into action, collect the evidence, ensure that 17 the victim is not returned to the environment? 18 LYNN THOMAS: That's correct. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Receives assistance, 20 counseling? 21 LYNN THOMAS: The suspect and the victim 142 1 will be immediately separated. Our TTA's are well 2 trained, our emergency room nurses are well trained. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's triage. 4 LYNN THOMAS: Triage and treatment area. 5 They are well trained to begin this process. They 6 have a checklist placed right there for them to call 7 all the transportation teams, the doctor, get the 8 proper forms, get the patient moving in the right 9 direction. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is your medical staff 11 expected to report, whether the alleged victim wants 12 you to or not, report any suspected or actual sexual 13 assault? 14 LYNN THOMAS: Say that one more time. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm trying to explore 16 to what extent you have an obligation to report. 17 LYNN THOMAS: Right. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What if the victim 19 says, I'm scared of retaliation, this guy has gone 20 silly, they are going to know -- 21 LYNN THOMAS: There is a form that the 143 1 patient can revoke. He can say he does not want to 2 go through the reporting system, his forensic 3 testing, and all the details. He can say what part 4 he does not want to have happen. I believe that the 5 form says that he can try to, you know, keep his 6 name free from it. At that point, we have to take 7 care of the patient, we have to assess their 8 concerns right now, and we encourage them strongly 9 to go ahead and get this reported. I do believe 10 they can -- as far as the victim of sexual crime 11 form, there's a place where they can say they choose 12 not to. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Can that veto your 14 reporting? I mean, if they check that box, you will 15 not tell folks? 16 LYNN THOMAS: I don't -- because that's 17 not my specialty area, I can't say we don't. I 18 would say that this patient is going to be cared for 19 at that prison properly. I believe, Mr. Riddle, if 20 they say they do not want to report this -- 21 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: That's just a matter of 144 1 it becoming public record. 2 LYNN THOMAS: Public record, okay. 3 TIMOTHY RIDDLE: They can choose whether 4 or not to have it publicized. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So they check the box, 6 that just means they want to keep it out of the 7 public record. 8 LYNN THOMAS: They also have to consent to 9 have the forensic testing done. 10 WENDY STILL: There is a differentiation 11 between medical exam. All correctional staff have 12 an absolutely mandatory duty to report. If there's 13 something that's jeopardizing an individual's 14 safety, whether it's sexual assault or not, they 15 have a mandatory reporting requirement. 16 LYNN THOMAS: We're reporting it as far as 17 the inmate saying he's not going to participate in 18 the forensic testing. As far as us, a medical 19 professional or teacher, anyone working at a prison, 20 has to report if something has been told. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It's not discretionary? 145 1 LYNN THOMAS: No. I wasn't sure whether 2 you meant as far as the whole process of the 3 forensic testing. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So what about, what 5 happened to the confidentiality between the medical 6 professional and the patient? 7 LYNN THOMAS: I know under mental health 8 they may have other guidelines, but for us we do 9 have to report to our immediate supervisor what's 10 been told to us, and that is that the patient is 11 saying he's been sexually harassed and it has to be 12 reported. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And investigated, the 14 investigation. 15 LYNN THOMAS: Yes, and conduct the 16 investigation. 17 RICHARD ANTI: You have to remember, all 18 crimes are investigated any time there's an 19 allegation. We have a mandate to follow the laws. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, unless anyone has 21 any elaboration on an earlier answer, we thank each 146 1 of you for your time. And we're going to now ask 2 for the Warden of Ironwood to come forward, and 3 Ms. Debra Dexter. Thank you very much. Good 4 morning, Ms. Dexter. Would you raise your right 5 hand, please? Do you solemnly swear or affirm that 6 the testimony you'll give the Panel today will be 7 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 8 truth? 9 DEBRA DEXTER: I do. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thanks for being here. 11 How long have you been in corrections? 12 DEBRA DEXTER: Twenty-two years. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long at 14 Ironwood? 15 DEBRA DEXTER: About a year and three 16 months. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And as warden the 18 entire 15 months? 19 DEBRA DEXTER: I was chief deputy warden 20 for a couple of months, and then I was a warden 21 February 13th of last year, as the acting warden. I 147 1 was appointed by Governor Schwarzenegger on November 2 the 2nd of 2007. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 2007. Yes. Were you 4 at Ironwood when the BJS inmate survey was taken? 5 DEBRA DEXTER: Not the initial one, no. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have personal 7 knowledge about the process and -- that was used in 8 that survey? In other words -- or was it just kind 9 of word of mouth? 10 DEBRA DEXTER: No, I'm fairly familiar 11 with it. And at a warden's conference about a year 12 ago they went over it and a presentation was given 13 to staff. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, in your 15 months 15 at Ironwood, is it fair to say you're pretty 16 familiar with the physical plant? 17 DEBRA DEXTER: Oh, absolutely. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's pretty 19 fundamental. 20 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, I hope by now. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If someone wanted to 148 1 engage in a sexual act in Ironwood's -- anywhere in 2 Ironwood, where would be the best place, from the 3 point of view of avoiding detection? 4 DEBRA DEXTER: Well, I have to agree with 5 Lieutenant Riddle, I would think the culinary. 6 Also, I would tend to think our canteen area; where 7 we have our laundry areas. Those places tend to 8 have a few more blind spots. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The canteen, culinary, 10 and was there something else? 11 DEBRA DEXTER: And also our laundry. Our 12 laundry room. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you single out 14 those because there are -- there is the chance for 15 one-on-one contact between an inmate and a staff? 16 LYNN THOMAS: Yes. Normally, it's just 17 one staff member in there. Of course, the staff 18 member has an alarm if they're working with a couple 19 more inmates. So -- be fairly easy if you wanted to 20 compromise yourself to be found doing something like 21 that in those areas. 149 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are there -- what are 2 you doing to prevent sexual assault from happening 3 in those vulnerable areas? 4 DEBRA DEXTER: Well, basically what the 5 Department of -- as a whole has done, just with the 6 constant training, to orientation, and just asking 7 my staff in general. I consult with the staff to be 8 a little bit more proactive in being out and 9 checking in those areas. So basically that's about 10 all that we're doing. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you feel you have 12 enough staff to make the rounds sufficiently to 13 avoid compromising situations? 14 DEBRA DEXTER: If you'll ask any warden 15 here -- and let me tell you, we never have enough 16 staff. We could of course always use more staff, 17 but what we try and do, of course, is try to be more 18 proactive in holding staff accountable of being out 19 there and actually making the rounds. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: How would you explain 21 the low incidence of sexual assault at your 150 1 facility? 2 DEBRA DEXTER: You know, I really -- I 3 want to go back to our inmate peer education 4 program, because I do brag on it and I think it's 5 absolutely the best in the State of California, and 6 I would probably even venture to say nationwide. We 7 have a very proactive team. We train the inmates. 8 We have currently about 130 inmates, and we graduate 9 them about every six -- we do classes about every 10 quarter, every six weeks or so. And we -- they 11 spend approximately three hours on just talking 12 about sexually transmitted diseases. And we have 13 also -- because we believe in it so much, we have an 14 operational procedure, also a dedicated correctional 15 captain to the inmate peer education program, and 16 those are the types of things that we discuss. So I 17 think by the inmates being a little bit more 18 educated on disease, I venture to say that it 19 probably helps a little bit. And along with that is 20 because of the peer education, we haven't had any 21 major outbreaks of infections at the institution. 151 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Has that peer education 2 program progressed to other institutions to your 3 knowledge? 4 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, and actually currently 5 Ms. Linda Still is working on developing it 6 statewide. It has been introduced, but I don't 7 think to the level it has been at Ironwood. And I 8 give that -- basically all the credit to my staff 9 and especially to Nurse Thomas, because it is an 10 unfunded position and so she tends to volunteer 11 quite a bit of her time in putting it out there. 12 And because we have been successful, we just really 13 believe in it. And actually what we have had -- 14 we've been able to get the inmates to totally buy 15 into it, and now we have staff that also buy into 16 it. Most recently we had an outbreak at an 17 institution about five miles from mine, we had about 18 500 inmates sick. What we initially did at our 19 institution was -- first thing we did was put our 20 peer educators out there and try to, you know, to 21 help with diffusing any panic among the population 152 1 and providing them with health information. So I am 2 100 percent behind it and I think that in reporting 3 our low numbers of sexual assault I venture to 4 believe that has something to do with it. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many of your staff, 6 to your knowledge, have been disciplined for 7 inappropriate sexual harassment or misconduct? 8 DEBRA DEXTER: When you asked that 9 question to Lieutenant Riddle I got on the phone and 10 called the institution. And since 1998 we have had 11 13 cases of staff that have been terminated for 12 having some sort of relationship with an inmate. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And criminal charges, 14 do you have that? 15 DEBRA DEXTER: I'm not sure about the 16 criminal charges. Most of the time we terminate 17 them. And whether or not the district attorney -- I 18 think two of the cases that I had submitted we did 19 try and prosecute, and the district attorney's 20 office denied to pick it up. But as far as 21 administratively, we have terminated them. 153 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you think that your 2 facility is overcrowded? 3 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, it is. Right now, 4 with what California is doing in being proactive, in 5 my institution most recently I was able to 6 deactivate about 500 beds, and that's because we 7 have started to send inmates out of state. But 8 currently, April or May, I'm scheduled to deactivate 9 another about 400 beds, which would take the inmates 10 out of my gyms. At one time, we had inmates in the 11 gyms and we also had them on the housing room 12 floors, which was very difficult to manage. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In those circumstances 14 of overcrowding, how do you ensure inmate safety, 15 including sexual assault? 16 DEBRA DEXTER: What we do do is hire 17 additional staff and just -- basically that's it, we 18 just hire additional staff. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Hire additional staff 20 rather than overtime? 21 DEBRA DEXTER: I was going to say, we hire 154 1 them on overtime. We don't get any new positions 2 for it, but we hire the overtime for coverage. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When we're talking 4 about overtime, we're talking about 16 hours on the 5 job, not a limit of eight hours, but working six or 6 seven days a week; is that correct? In other words, 7 if somebody is working overtime, they are doing two 8 shifts? 9 DEBRA DEXTER: Yeah, they could be. It 10 varies. They could do a consecutive shift or hire 11 someone to do a typical eight-hour shift. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have the 13 prerogative under your collective bargaining 14 agreement with the union to hire new folks, or is 15 your option limited to overtime for existing staff? 16 DEBRA DEXTER: Limited to overtime for 17 existing staff. I'm budgeted for so many positions, 18 and I hate to say at one time Ironwood, even within 19 the last year, we were very short-staffed. But as 20 of today we've got about 13 extra staff, so the 21 Department has done a lot to kind of assist in that 155 1 area -- so I'm not hiring as much overtime as I 2 normally would. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what was the 4 staff-to-inmate ratio last year? 5 DEBRA DEXTER: It was very poor. Put it 6 this way, I have 850 custodial staff, that includes 7 my sergeants and lieutenants. Six hundred are 8 basically officers. And I was down to a little 9 under 500 officers. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This was last year? 11 DEBRA DEXTER: Last year, yes. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how many inmates 13 did you have in custody last year? 14 DEBRA DEXTER: Anywhere from 4500 to about 15 4700. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All-male facility? 17 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, sir. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what range of 19 security? 20 DEBRA DEXTER: It's considered a 21 medium-security institution. I house approximately 156 1 1,200 inmates serving life without parole, and I 2 would say another 2,000 are anywhere from probably 3 ten years to 100-and-some odd years. So it just 4 kind of varies. Considered a level-three 5 institution. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So the ratio last year 7 at Lockwood -- 500 officers, up to 4700, was in 8 excess of one to nine; is that correct? 9 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And does that raise 11 some concerns for you? 12 DEBRA DEXTER: Oh, absolutely. But like I 13 said, the best part of it is that the Department has 14 made the efforts and we are no longer short-staffed. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What is the gender 16 breakdown with staff? 17 DEBRA DEXTER: I would say probably 18 95 percent -- my custodial staff are all men, and 19 the other 5 percent are women. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do you have male and 21 female staff on your senior executive team? 157 1 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, I do. 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do you have any openly 3 gay staff? 4 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, I have one. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And is that gay staff 6 member -- where does he or she work? 7 DEBRA DEXTER: He's a cook in the kitchen. 8 He's a supervisor cook. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So he would have -- he 10 would be around inmates? 11 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And could be a role 13 model for inmates? 14 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Have you ever 16 considered perhaps developing a program around 17 having openly gay staff to perhaps intervene and act 18 in terms of role-modeling within the institution? 19 DEBRA DEXTER: No, I hadn't. And just to 20 kind of give you a little bit of the dynamics of 21 Ironwood, I do know that I have a population -- that 158 1 there may be a few openly homosexuals but not very 2 many. They typically don't come to my institution, 3 so I never ventured or had an idea of doing 4 something like that with staff. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The inmates don't have 6 a whole lot of choice, do they, as to where they are 7 going? Why do you think they don't come to your 8 institution? 9 DEBRA DEXTER: Normally when they are in 10 the reception center -- usually someone that's 11 openly homosexual, they basically say so and they 12 normally send them to a couple of the other 13 institutions that typically house more inmates -- 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Where would that be? 15 DEBRA DEXTER: Usually CMF Vacaville, 16 California Medical Facility, it's located in 17 Northern California -- has a very high population of 18 inmates that are homosexual. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What do you expect your 20 staff to do when making housing assignments in the 21 first 14 days of reception? What do you expect them 159 1 to consider as factors in making those housing 2 assignments? 3 DEBRA DEXTER: I expect them, first of 4 all, to be professional and consider the inmate's 5 age, his ethnicity, his gang affiliation. We also 6 look at that because of the violence that are in 7 California prisons. You know, what type of 8 vocational program they might be interested in. 9 Their education. We tend to look at quite a few -- 10 I would expect them to look at -- to really 11 interview the inmate and get a real good idea where 12 we think that he can safely and best be housed at in 13 the institution, and positively programmed. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you expect them to 15 ask about sexual orientation? 16 DEBRA DEXTER: I wouldn't say so unless 17 there was maybe something that they noticed in the 18 central file, or either the inmate's behavior that 19 would tend to make them ask -- normally be a 20 question that I would ask. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about sexual 160 1 assault history or victimization? 2 DEBRA DEXTER: Absolutely. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Where would they get 4 that information? 5 DEBRA DEXTER: From the inmate's central 6 files or during a private interview, because each 7 inmate is interviewed prior to them being placed in 8 a housing facility -- so during that time. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Does that interview 10 take place when they are in R&R or when they are in 11 C-1? 12 DEBRA DEXTER: Actually, it can take place 13 in both places. Initially, it's done in the 14 receiving and release -- in R&R. Then once they get 15 to C-1, which is my orientation, they are also 16 interviewed by their correctional counselor. And 17 that's also done in a private setting. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: On the peer education 19 program, are there other aspects to that program in 20 addition to the medical -- educating inmates 21 regarding medical issues? Are there any other 161 1 components to the peer education program that you 2 believe help to ensure its success? 3 DEBRA DEXTER: The only other components 4 that we do take a part with, it's basically all in 5 the medical. But one of the things that I think is 6 unique about Ironwood is that we have incorporated 7 PREA -- you know, talking specifically about sexual 8 assault. We do have pamphlets that we pass out. I 9 think that was included in your packet. And you had 10 asked a question a little earlier, I think it was to 11 Secretary Tilton, are inmates given specific 12 information as to what to do in case they are 13 assaulted? And we do have pamphlets that we do pass 14 out to the inmate population to particularly tell 15 them what to do and how to do it and who to tell -- 16 so we do that information. And, actually, it's 17 called the sexual assault awareness pamphlet that 18 was developed by the Department of Corrections and 19 Rehabilitation. And we do go over that. And as 20 part of the peer education, just getting the 21 information out there to them in case they are 162 1 sexually assaulted and what to do has been most 2 helpful. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's the culture or 4 environment in your facility as far as sexual jokes, 5 labels, comments? 6 DEBRA DEXTER: You know what, I'm really 7 kind of proud to say I haven't seen that. I'm not 8 ignorant to the fact that it probably does happen, 9 but when I review my appeal process and my staff 10 complaint process, I would say maybe one or 11 two percent -- just not very high. And I don't 12 typically deal with those type of issues, or I don't 13 get those complaints from staff. I usually get an 14 earful of complaints, and that's something that 15 hasn't been brought to my attention. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: These would be 17 complaints from staff or from inmates? 18 DEBRA DEXTER: Actually from both. I tend 19 to walk the facility about once a week or so, so 20 inmates do have an ear. I do have an ear for them. 21 So I would hear it. 163 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You walk the facility 2 once a week? 3 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, sir. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is that the only time 5 that you would have face time with inmates? 6 DEBRA DEXTER: No. On Thursday we do 7 institutional classification committee review, when 8 you were speaking about our administrative 9 segregation unit -- during that period I also speak 10 to the inmates. And we're required to chair those 11 committees as often as possible. So I typically 12 do -- it's just not a period where the inmate comes 13 in, you say, okay, this is your punishment. It's 14 actually, you know, are you okay, are you okay with 15 your cellmate, is there anything that we need to 16 know? 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What are all the ways 18 that an inmate could communicate or report their 19 having been sexually assaulted or harassed? What 20 are all the avenues? They might see you on the 21 once-a-week walk-around, might see a nurse or be 164 1 able to successfully get a sick call slip out, but 2 what are the other ways that reporting could happen 3 in your facility? 4 DEBRA DEXTER: There's an inmate appeal 5 process. They can file an appeal. They can also 6 fill out a form that involves a request for 7 interview. Where they can send it -- they can also 8 appeal to any supervisor in the facility, sergeant, 9 lieutenant, or captain. They also -- every inmate 10 is assigned to a correctional counselor. So 11 there's, I think, quite a few avenues. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When are the counselors 13 around? 14 DEBRA DEXTER: The counselors should be on 15 the facilities every day, but they are required to 16 run, I believe it's ten hours open line a week, 17 where an inmate -- where they just have an open 18 door, inmate can come in and talk with them. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you mentioned 20 sergeants and lieutenants and captains. When and 21 how would an inmate approach -- be able to approach 165 1 them? 2 DEBRA DEXTER: That's any time they get 3 ready: during yard meetings; during yard time; 4 during dining; during evening meal; the morning 5 meal; while they are going out to their work 6 assignment or education program. Staff are very 7 visible outside, so they are welcome to talk to 8 them. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Warden, in your 10 judgment, who would be the most likely staff to 11 cross the boundaries and get into misconduct with 12 inmates? 13 DEBRA DEXTER: Wow, that's kind of hard 14 because I've kind of seen a little bit of it all. 15 Gosh, well, working at a mental institution, I will 16 have to say, and this is the only experience I've 17 had working in men institutions, often seen the 18 women fall in love with the men for whatever reason. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: A staff. 20 DEBRA DEXTER: Staff member, yes. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is there any other 166 1 profile other than their being predominantly female? 2 What are other factors or clues that someone may be 3 more at risk to become a predator on an inmate? 4 DEBRA DEXTER: I've seen quite a few 5 teachers, I will say -- seen probably more teachers 6 than I have of the other staff. But I think some of 7 the things that we can do a little bit better is by 8 training. The Department -- in this field, you 9 typically tend to put people out there without 10 enough training or experience. There are other 11 things to look for, things to watch? 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who gets PREA training 13 on your staff? 14 DEBRA DEXTER: All our staff. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Everybody with a pulse? 16 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes. When you come into 17 orientation, everyone has it. And then we're also 18 required one more time through the year to give you 19 four hours of training. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you use the National 21 Institute of Corrections DVDs? 167 1 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, we do. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who sees those? 3 DEBRA DEXTER: Everyone, all of our staff. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about inmates? 5 RICHARD ANTI: Yes, they do see that DVD, 6 during orientation. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Orientation. 8 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, when they go to C-1 9 they see the orientation video. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have outside 11 stakeholders come and participate in any of the PREA 12 training, either from staff or inmates? 13 DEBRA DEXTER: No, I haven't. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Local rape crisis 15 center? 16 DEBRA DEXTER: No, they have not. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do inmates have 18 access -- would they be able to contact, 19 confidentially, a rape crisis center or are phone 20 calls all going to be monitored? 21 DEBRA DEXTER: All phone calls are 168 1 monitored. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And do the rape -- the 3 local rape centers have any role in reporting or 4 treatment or counseling, or is this done all within 5 your own shop? 6 DEBRA DEXTER: Well, once -- they do meet 7 with us. As a matter of fact, we just met with them 8 a couple weeks ago. Ours is called Coachella Crisis 9 Rape Center. And so they do meet with us, with 10 staff. I have a PREA coordinator. And, at that 11 time, if they have any literature they want to give 12 out, they do do that. But that's the avenue they 13 go -- would go through, is through our PREA 14 coordinator. And departmentally, once or twice a 15 year all the PREA coordinators do meet in Sacramento 16 for additional PREA training. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How do you measure 18 staff knowledge of sexual assault in PREA? Do they 19 have to take a test? 20 DEBRA DEXTER: Right now I would tend to 21 say that in the last -- since the enactment of the 169 1 Act, since the Department has started ensuring that 2 we do do training, it's just not that I call and 3 say, yes, my institution did training. I have to 4 actually produce documents that they were trained on 5 it. So I would like to say now -- I would say at 6 least 80 percent of our staff are very well aware of 7 PREA. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are they tested? 9 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, during their 10 orientation. It's a small little test. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And would their 12 knowledge and familiarity with PREA play any role in 13 their job evaluation? 14 DEBRA DEXTER: No, not at this time. Not 15 that I'm aware of. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How do you avoid hiring 17 staff who may have a, in their past, sexual assault 18 or sexual harassment? 19 DEBRA DEXTER: Well, typically before 20 anyone is hired, if you're a peace officer, you've 21 gone through a background investigation. And if 170 1 you're a free staff, or an ancillary staff, we do a 2 small background on you once you're hired. And 3 really, unless you have been convicted of the crime 4 and it shows up as a felony or shows up as an arrest 5 history, we wouldn't know. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So unless you're 7 convicted of a sex offense, particularly the 8 ancillary staff, like the folks in culinary, your 9 supervising cook, your librarian, your teachers, the 10 folks who are most likely to be on a one-on-one 11 situation with an inmate, you're not going to know 12 whether they have a profile of being a predator? 13 DEBRA DEXTER: Right, unless they were 14 actually arrested. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Unless -- 16 DEBRA DEXTER: Unless they had been 17 arrested. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Is there a way that a 19 staff can remove himself if and when his personal 20 revulsion for a prisoner would otherwise interfere 21 with his professional judgment? 171 1 DEBRA DEXTER: Can he quit? 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Can he be removed from 3 a case, from a specific case? 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Or a cellblock. Be 5 moved from C to B because he can't stand that 6 particular inmate or -- 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Or inmates in that 8 particular cellblock. 9 DEBRA DEXTER: Well, I find -- your 10 question, because they were attracted to the inmate 11 or just they didn't get along with the inmate? 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Say the individual has 13 a particular disregard for this case, for an 14 effeminate male inmate, just thinking to himself all 15 the time, this queen is just disgusting, if 16 something happened to him in the closet it wouldn't 17 be the worst thing that I could think of. At that 18 point, his professional judgment is compromised, 19 would you agree? 20 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes. And then to answer 21 your question, yes, they can ask for a job change. 172 1 Or, yes, they can ask for a job change. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how is that going 3 to look on their employment file, this person asked 4 to be transferred for personal reasons to a 5 different post? 6 DEBRA DEXTER: Well, the process rules are 7 a little bit different. If an officer requested a 8 job change, if the job was different than what they 9 put in for, they wouldn't have to particularly give 10 us a reason. However, if it came to my level that 11 he was having a problem because an inmate was openly 12 gay, then I would have to deal with it a little bit 13 differently. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how would you deal 15 with it? 16 DEBRA DEXTER: I would remove him. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: From the facility or 18 from the assignment? 19 DEBRA DEXTER: From the assignment, and 20 probably initiate some sort of investigation 21 depending on the information that I had gotten. 173 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If it came to your 2 attention then, a correctional officer is going to 3 know that that's not going to be positive for his 4 future? 5 DEBRA DEXTER: Absolutely. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are there any 7 sanctions for offenders who falsely report sexual 8 assault? 9 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, they can -- there are 10 some repercussions if they do. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And they are? 12 DEBRA DEXTER: Kind of depends on -- to be 13 honest, I have never had to deal with it, just file 14 false allegations against a staff member. All the 15 ones I've been -- had to deal with it, is they were 16 founded. But as far as people just making false 17 allegations, other than sometimes during the -- 18 during the appeal process, you might find that 19 something was unfounded or just didn't happen. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do family members of 21 inmates have access to opportunity to communicate to 174 1 the administration at Ironwood that their loved one 2 is at risk? 3 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes, they do. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How do they do that? 5 DEBRA DEXTER: Currently, we have what we 6 call an inmate family council, and I meet with them 7 once a month. And at that time -- initially, they 8 started off talking for visiting, but it's kind of 9 grown. So that is an avenue. I have pictures of 10 all the inmate family council, the families up in 11 the visiting rooms, and that's a process that they 12 can use. And they tend to bring you any kind of 13 issues through that council. That's one way that 14 they can do it. And they can always call the office 15 or write a letter if there's some specific issues 16 that they want to discuss about an inmate. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Have there been 18 instances when family members did get that 19 information to you and you acted on it and found it 20 to be true? 21 DEBRA DEXTER: As far as sexual 175 1 misconduct? 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes. 3 DEBRA DEXTER: No. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You never had a -- how 5 about not at Ironwood, but in your 22 years of 6 corrections, have you ever had an instance in which 7 family members communicated that their loved one was 8 raped, was assaulted, pressured to be intimate with 9 another inmate or staff? 10 DEBRA DEXTER: No, I haven't. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Never? 12 DEBRA DEXTER: No. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Nurse Thomas mentioned 14 that you have agreements or arrangements with 15 several hospitals for possible sexual assault 16 victims. How many officers need to escort an inmate 17 when they are going to the E.R.? 18 DEBRA DEXTER: From where? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: From your institution 20 to the emergency room. 21 DEBRA DEXTER: We normally send two or 176 1 three people. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Two or three? 3 DEBRA DEXTER: Yes. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Does that include an 5 advocate? Can the inmate bring or be met by a 6 mentor or some other -- 7 DEBRA DEXTER: No, it's usually done by my 8 investigative unit. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I thought I saw 10 something in your materials that a victim can have 11 an advocate with them. But does that -- does that 12 ring a bell? 13 DEBRA DEXTER: No -- have to check my 14 notes. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: California two years 16 ago -- 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see Ms. Thomas 18 nodding her nod. 19 LYNN THOMAS: We have an agreement -- we 20 have to call the advocate to tell them about it. We 21 have to tell them where to meet the patient. 177 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you call the 2 Coachella Valley -- 3 LYNN THOMAS: Last Monday they had a 4 meeting at the institution with their PREA 5 coordinator, and we have an agreement with our 6 prison that we're expected to call for the watch 7 commander when this happens -- they have to call 8 their advocate group in Coachella Valley, and they 9 have to tell them which hospital they are going to 10 and they have to meet the patient there and be 11 available for counseling. Even if the patient wants 12 to withdraw and not use them, this is our contracted 13 Coachella Valley sexual assault services. And they 14 have to meet them there and be available, if they 15 want to talk or not -- they have to be an advocate. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. What 17 procedures, Warden, should your staff follow if they 18 receive a report that an individual had been 19 sexually assaulted in another institution? 20 DEBRA DEXTER: They should first report 21 it -- normally -- they typically report it to our 178 1 institution. And then if it had to do with another 2 institution, I would contact the warden at that 3 institution and give them that information. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The reason why I'm 5 asking is because Operation Procedure 062 that you 6 produced talks about a sexual assault that is, 7 quote, current, but doesn't talk about any past 8 assaults. So I was wondering if that procedure 9 differs. 10 DEBRA DEXTER: Once it's brought to my 11 attention, I would contact the warden at that other 12 institution and let him know. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Possibly my last 14 question. Please describe your grievance procedure 15 that an inmate must follow when filing a civil 16 lawsuit. 17 DEBRA DEXTER: He has an option. If he, 18 of course, doesn't want to file in the institution, 19 then he basically would contact -- file the 20 paperwork with the court. We hope that they would 21 give us the opportunity, however, at the institution 179 1 to look into it, but there's no mandate that he has 2 to follow at the institution. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, Warden, thank you 4 so much for your time. Anything you wanted to 5 clarify, add to -- anything that any of your staff 6 mentioned, or supplement Secretary Tilton's 7 comments? 8 DEBRA DEXTER: Just wanted to thank you 9 for the opportunity to allow myself, and along with 10 my staff here. We do think that it's very positive 11 what the Rape Elimination Act is trying to do, and I 12 thank you and applaud your work. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you very much 14 for your time. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We will break for lunch 16 now for one hour and reconvene at 1:15 in this room. 17 Thank you very much. 18 (Lunch taken at 12:16 p.m.) 19 (Resumed at 1:18 p.m.) 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, we're going to 21 proceed without video or audio assistance. But 180 1 we're privileged to have Mr. Harley Lappin, who is 2 the director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, the 3 largest prison system in North America at least, if 4 not the world. And Director Lappin, the floor is 5 yours. 6 HARLEY LAPPIN: Mr. Chairman, Ms. Ellis, 7 it's a pleasure to be here today. I welcome the 8 opportunity to appear before you today to discuss 9 the Federal Bureau of Prisons' approach to prison 10 management, particularly as it relates to minimizing 11 the risk of sexual assault within federal prisons. 12 The Bureau has a policy that addresses sexual abuse 13 prevention and intervention. But our strategy for 14 preventing sexual assault and abuse is integrated 15 into our overall management approach, which promotes 16 safe, secure, humane environment for staff and 17 inmates, and enhances community reentrance success 18 and releasing inmates. This approach relies on 19 adherence to sound correctional basics and the 20 provision of self-improvement opportunities that 21 will improve to reduce recidivism. The Bureau 181 1 operates 114 prisons in response to a little more 2 than 201,000 federal offenders, with approximately 3 85 percent housed in Bureau facilities and the 4 remainder in privately-operated facilities, which 5 include residential reentry centers, and to a lesser 6 extent a handful of inmates in state and local 7 government facilities. The Bureau is a 8 policy-driven agency, and all agency sites are 9 required to follow policy. In fact, nearly all 10 aspects of institution operations are covered in 11 policy. Numerous executive oversight strategies and 12 our comprehensive internal systems of control ensure 13 compliance with the applicable regulations, laws, 14 policies and procedures, identifies enhancement 15 needed, and promotes efficient, effective management 16 practices. In addition to internal and mandatory 17 external oversight, the Bureau also voluntarily 18 subjects its institutions to external critical 19 review by accreditation agencies to ensure they are 20 performing in a manner consistent with the highest 21 of standards. Feedback from these independent 182 1 reviews helps us improve operations, enhance safety 2 for our staff and inmates under our care. Since 3 2006, the Bureau has implemented various 4 enhancements to our operations. We have increased 5 the number of staff, particularly custodial staff, 6 who have direct contact with inmates. We have 7 enhanced technology and surveillance capabilities 8 and updated the Bureau's classification system. 9 With respect to the latter, the classification 10 system, it's important that any classification 11 system be evaluated on an ongoing basis to ensure it 12 accurately reflects changes in the inmate population 13 that can occur with time. Institution security is 14 enhanced through a combination of direct staff 15 supervision, architectural design and physical plant 16 features, security technologies, use of management 17 concept and classification of inmates based on risk 18 factors. Our security classification system 19 contributes significantly to safety by separating 20 inmates with a propensity for violence and abuse 21 from others. Qualified, trained staff are a key to 183 1 inmate management. Regardless of their specific 2 discipline, all Bureau employees are correctional 3 workers first, which means that each is responsible 4 for safety, security, and good order of the 5 institution, and for serving as a positive role 6 model to the inmate population. Engaging inmates in 7 programming is appropriate to individual needs and 8 keeping them constructively occupied are critical to 9 ensuring safe and secure prisons and public safety. 10 Programming reduces inmate items and stresses -- 11 stresses related to confinement, to help prepare 12 inmates for their release. Staff are highly visible 13 throughout the facilities and continue to interact 14 with inmates, and inmates may approach any staff at 15 any time with their issues or concerns. This 16 promotes a more normalized environment and better 17 positions staff to observe and respond to inmate 18 behavior. Locating staff offices in housing units 19 facilitates access and proactive identification of 20 potential issues. Grievance procedures ensure 21 investigation and timely response to any issues 184 1 raised by an inmate. The Bureau's approach to 2 discouraging staff misconduct begins with a clear 3 understanding of the Bureau's zero tolerance 4 philosophy, including trying to reinforce the 5 agency's expectation regarding staff conduct, and 6 involve staff reporting up the chain of command, 7 which is both a responsibility and duty, and their 8 observation or concerns that may become aware of 9 incidents of misconduct. Management staff have 10 expended considerable effort over the past few years 11 to remind staff of the importance to adhering to the 12 agency's core values and standards of conduct, as 13 well as the consequences for failure to do so. 14 Inmates are encouraged to report incidents of 15 misconduct and other inappropriate behavior. All 16 allegations of misconduct are referred to the Office 17 of the Inspector General, which then refers back to 18 the Bureau's Office for Internal Affairs those they 19 want the Bureau to investigate. Serious cases are 20 referred for criminal prosecution. And the Bureau, 21 without a doubt, does not tolerate any type of abuse 185 1 of inmates. Allegations of inmate-on-inmate sexual 2 assaults, or nonconsensual sexual acts, are also 3 taken very seriously, with a full investigation and 4 prompt referral to the FBI in cases involving 5 potentially criminal behavior and, if necessary, 6 prosecution. The Bureau's inmate discipline policy 7 is also applied when investigation of institution 8 rules have been violated. Bureau policy on 9 preventing sexually abusive behavior applies to 10 inmates with a history of sexual victimization 11 recordation, as well as those at risk of being 12 victimized or perpetuating sexually abusive 13 behavior. The policy is designed to ensure staff 14 and inmate awareness of the understanding of the 15 Bureau's zero tolerance policy -- standardized 16 protection and prevention procedures, prompt, 17 effective response to victim needs, prompt 18 intervention and investigation, and disciplining the 19 prosecution of perpetrators. This policy emphasizes 20 the importance of using sound correctional practices 21 to better prevent incidents of sexually abusive 186 1 behavior and, more importantly, as a deterrence. 2 Staff receive training on policy requirements upon 3 hiring and annually thereafter, and those that are 4 directly involved receive specialty training. 5 Inmates are advised of their rights and 6 responsibility during orientation, and receive an 7 information pamphlet that outlines significant 8 aspects of the policy. To ensure the safety of 9 Federal inmates held at facilities under contract 10 with the Bureau, the agency has made its expectation 11 of the contractors quite clear. They too must 12 comply with zero tolerance policy. The Bureau's 13 management policies and practice continue to serve 14 the agency well in that we have experienced very few 15 sexual assaults, but even one such incident is too 16 many. The Bureau is committed to eliminating those. 17 Mr. Chairman, this concludes my prepared remarks. I 18 will be pleased to answer questions of you or 19 Ms. Ellis. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you, 21 Mr. Director. You spoke of updating the BOP's 187 1 classification system. Elaborate a little bit on 2 how you have updated the risk assessment tools that 3 are used by the Bureau for housing assignments. 4 HARLEY LAPPIN: When people ask me what do 5 you think -- what initiative lends itself to a safer 6 prison environment, something besides the type of 7 staff and the training we provide staff, it comes 8 down to your classification system. And we have a 9 long history of experience with classification 10 systems in the Bureau. Continuously, our staff are 11 evaluating the factors that go into determining the 12 risk associated with an inmate. Because, as I 13 indicated, over the course of time characteristics 14 of the inmates change. I'll give you an example. 15 In the early 90s, with the changes made in Federal 16 law, we observed a very different type of offender 17 than we had previously. With more drug offenders, 18 we began to see more firearms violations, younger 19 offenders, more gang-oriented, more violence, more 20 willing to confront the status quo. And given that, 21 our staff evaluated each factor and its impact on 188 1 the classification system, and made adjustments to 2 that in the way of age -- how much weight should age 3 consider in the classification system? Length of 4 time between an assault, whether in the community or 5 elsewhere, and its impact on classification, in an 6 effort to ensure that we were properly housing 7 individuals in institutions consistent with the risk 8 needs. Again, our objective is to house inmates in 9 the lowest security level possible, but at a level 10 consistent with their safety and security and needs. 11 And although there's a tool there to gauge that 12 risk, our staff are also expected to assess those 13 individuals upon entry to that facility. And I'll 14 give you an example of that. The classification 15 tool may indicate an offender is a high-security 16 inmate. If they arrive and we see an individual who 17 is very young in appearance, very immature, not a 18 very good decision-maker, it's within the 19 wherewithal of that employee, or our case manager or 20 our oversight manager, to step back and say, is this 21 person appropriate for high-security institution; 189 1 and consider reclassifying to a lower security level 2 rather than putting them into a situation that 3 may be more risky than necessary. And the vice 4 versa -- sometimes they belong in medium or low, and 5 what you see on paper is not necessarily what you 6 see in person. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What do you -- I don't 8 want to get too much of the features, but what do 9 you see on paper? What do you expect your personnel 10 making housing classifications to consider? What 11 are salient features? You mentioned age, length of 12 time since assault. 13 HARLEY LAPPIN: We can certainly provide 14 our classification form. It goes through -- if 15 you've ever had detainers, is there a risk that they 16 are going to be leaving our custody and going to 17 someone else's custody, and, if so, what type of 18 detainer? Is it a violent offense? And obviously 19 the more serious offense, the greater weight that 20 factor carries. How long is their sentence, how old 21 are they? And a number of other -- 190 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about sexual 2 orientation, do you ask about that? 3 HARLEY LAPPIN: Once the offender is 4 assessed for custody, it takes into consideration 5 violent offenses and other things. I'm not sure 6 that there is a factor specific to sexual offenses, 7 but certainly it is in regard to institution 8 misconducts of a sexual nature. Once they have been 9 in the institution and if they behaved in that 10 manner, if there's incidents of sexual involvement 11 or sexual misconduct, it would then apply to that 12 aspect of the custody classification form. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you were referring 14 to the custody classification, not housing 15 classification? 16 HARLEY LAPPIN: Well, it kind of goes 17 hand-in-hand. There is some consideration 18 involved -- institution placement as well as how you 19 decide a housing assignment for an individual. If 20 you go to most institutions, the housing assignments 21 are similar in nature. In a low, you're going to 191 1 expect more dormitory-style, less cells. And as you 2 get into medium and highs, you're going to pretty 3 much have cell-type housing except in some of the 4 older facilities. So in most locations, mediums and 5 highs, in the Federal system you're going to have 6 cells -- typically two people to a cell. Versus low 7 or minimal, they are going to have more cubicles, 8 more open doors. So as far as if you mean housing 9 to a certain specific bed assignment, it's going to 10 vary by custody level and certainly within a 11 facility given what's available. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: From the classification 13 of custody to the separate classification, though a 14 lot of overlap, for housing assignment, what 15 additional factors do you think are important for 16 your people to consider in making the housing 17 decision? 18 HARLEY LAPPIN: They look at mental health 19 issues, they look at health issues. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And within the health 21 issues? 192 1 HARLEY LAPPIN: They will look at gang 2 affiliation. We try to balance our institutions 3 racially -- not only the institution, but housing 4 units as well, so there's not an imbalance in those 5 housing units. There is a number of factors we look 6 at in a specific housing area to make sure we have 7 got balanced population. We've taken into 8 consideration offenders with mental health issues, 9 health issues, other factors. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about a history of 11 sexual assault? 12 HARLEY LAPPIN: Certainly an area if we're 13 aware of that. You mean of being assaulted? 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes, being the victim. 15 Would you have that information? Where would you 16 be -- where would you get that information? 17 HARLEY LAPPIN: Typically through the 18 inmate central file. There would be documentation 19 of that. Or in interviewing the inmate. As we 20 interview the inmate to the institution, we would be 21 asking them questions of sexual assault or 193 1 assaultive behaviors, so on and so forth. So that 2 would be taken into consideration as they are 3 interviewing the offender upon entry. There would 4 be documentation in the inmate's central file, which 5 goes with the inmate wherever they relocate to so 6 that information is readily available to the staff 7 for coming to a determination on housing. But we do 8 not have a special housing unit, that is a housing 9 unit, for just folks who have indicated they have 10 been sexually assaulted, other than special 11 housing -- segregation. If there's that much of a 12 concern and we decide we feel, based on our 13 evaluation, that there may be a threat to this 14 person or he may threaten others, we may decide he's 15 such a risk, we can place them in special housing 16 until a determination is made for appropriate 17 placement. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Both the alleged victim 19 and the alleged predator will both be put in ad seg 20 for -- 21 HARLEY LAPPIN: Could be. But 194 1 realistically we've got a new offender coming in who 2 has been sexually assaulted in the past, and for 3 whatever reason that intake screening person's 4 assessment -- their concern about their ability to 5 be successful out there, they may decide to place 6 them in special housing before putting them out in 7 the general population. And other folks discuss the 8 options and decide whether a transfer to another 9 facility or a certain housing unit would be more 10 appropriate. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Director Lappin, you've 12 been in corrections -- 13 HARLEY LAPPIN: Twenty-three years. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Twenty-three years. 15 And you worked up through the system. 16 HARLEY LAPPIN: I started as a case 17 manager in Texarkana, Texas, and then worked my way 18 up through the system. I was an associate warden. 19 I was a warden in two locations. Regional director. 20 And then became director in April of 2003. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So do you have an 195 1 opinion as to if one of your -- if a profile, there 2 was one profile of a staff person who might violate 3 your sexual misconduct expectations, what are the 4 warning signs? Is there a profile of a subject 5 person? 6 HARLEY LAPPIN: If there is, I would like 7 to know what it is. I wish it was that easy. 8 Without a doubt, on occasion -- believe you me, I am 9 very confident the vast majority of our employees 10 are hard-working, dedicated, committed, law 11 enforcement professionals who are committed to 12 carrying out our mission responsibly within the law. 13 But without a doubt we struggle when we either hire 14 someone who, unbeknownst to us, has -- does not have 15 a commitment to the agency or its mission, and in 16 doing so ax out. And obviously as well-versed as 17 you are in prisons, in ways not only of a sexual 18 nature but in other forms of misconduct, or through 19 the course of a career, which we see through many 20 systems, someone's attitude, someone's beliefs 21 change, and they take advantage of those. And I 196 1 wish we had an easy way to figure that out. We've 2 looked at a variety of different assessment tools 3 prior to selection into the agency. Not really 4 satisfied with what we see. And, again, it's our 5 responsibility to know our staff. On the other 6 hand, they are guarded, we don't see them constantly 7 every day. Our staff work shifts in remote areas. 8 Certainly -- basically makes it more difficult to 9 identify a person or know of issues related to their 10 personal life that might lend them to act out in 11 that manner. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What kind of 13 information do you get on prospective employees? 14 HARLEY LAPPIN: No different than any 15 other law enforcement officer. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Criminal record check. 17 HARLEY LAPPIN: Thorough evaluation, 18 integrity interview upon application. So besides 19 their own application and a reference check 20 associated with that application, when they come in 21 to interview -- there's an integrity interview that 197 1 asks about all the different types of -- have they 2 ever been convicted of a crime, have they ever been 3 fired from a job, for what reason? So certainly 4 some detailed background information that's in 5 there. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do they submit to a 7 polygraph as well? 8 HARLEY LAPPIN: No, they do not -- not 9 during the interview process. There is a team of 10 individuals, oftentimes a psychologist or 11 management -- all our management folks primarily, 12 unless it's a specialty area, who interview the 13 individual. And then there's a background check 14 that all the law enforcement personnel must have 15 conducted as part of the hiring process. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about your 17 auxiliary staff in terms of the kitchen folks doing 18 vocational training, folks that might be in the 19 library? Do they have the same background checks? 20 HARLEY LAPPIN: All of our employees who 21 work in institutions are Federal law enforcement 198 1 officers. They go through the same hiring 2 procedures, must meet the same criteria, and all of 3 them have the same background check, which reoccurs 4 every five years. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about contractors? 6 HARLEY LAPPIN: Contractors is not as 7 in-depth. But there's NCIC checks, there are other 8 reference checks that occur with contractors. And 9 then contractors then are split into categories. 10 You have some contractors that can be unescorted, 11 you have some -- many are escorted. So besides the 12 background checks -- and there's training for 13 contractors. And as part of that training we set 14 the expectation in the way of conduct and behavior 15 and so on and so forth. So even if it's a 16 contractor, which I know is a bit frustrating for 17 some of our staff -- but not to have contact with 18 inmates. They might be coming to work on the roof, 19 they go through the same process and procedures. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have folks who 21 work in the kitchen with inmates, library, chapel, 199 1 life connections, other programs, who are not 2 full-fledged BOP employees but independent 3 contractors who have therefore been through a less 4 rigorous background check? 5 HARLEY LAPPIN: There are about 12 to 6 14,000 contractors and volunteers with Bureau of 7 Prisons. The vast majority of the volunteers work 8 in chapels area, or education. I won't say -- I 9 will say it's very infrequent that you have a 10 volunteer in food service or some of those other 11 areas. It could happen. Someone comes to us and 12 they met overall procedures to become a volunteer 13 and they have a specialty, we will certainly use 14 them in that capacity. Most of them work in 15 religious services or education. The volunteers go 16 through our vetting process, reference-checking 17 process. They too are divided into categories of 18 escorted, non-escorted, so on and so forth. When 19 they don't abide by those expectations, they no 20 longer can be a volunteer. And typically that 21 information is passed up through the chain of 200 1 command so that they can't leave one institution, 2 become a volunteer elsewhere if in fact their 3 behavior assessment -- we have removed them from 4 that responsibility at a similar location. Even 5 more so with contractors -- vetting, 6 reference-checking. If they are associated with a 7 certain organization, we use some vetting of that 8 organization. So there's a fairly thorough -- even 9 more so since 9/11 -- and to some frustrations. 10 Unfortunately, we see a decline in volunteerism 11 because it's a more rigorous review and evaluation 12 than it was in the past. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do the volunteers go 14 through any kind of PREA training? 15 HARLEY LAPPIN: I believe. Again, you 16 might want to ask some of the folks from Schuylkill. 17 But I'm pretty sure that during -- I won't say it's 18 specifically PREA, but there's certainly -- 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Forty-eight hours. 20 HARLEY LAPPIN: -- a segment during their 21 orientation that deals with misconduct: bringing 201 1 something to an inmate; taking something out for an 2 inmate; inappropriate relationship with inmates. 3 And they are all made well aware that that type of 4 behavior is unacceptable and will result in a 5 removal from the program. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We heard this morning 7 that there are blind spots in every institution 8 where there are particularly one-on-one contact 9 between staff and inmates. That would be frequently 10 in the kitchen, library, maybe some of the 11 programming. So my question is directed at the 12 rigor of background checks for staff. Unless they 13 have been convicted of a sex offense, they -- we 14 don't -- the Bureau doesn't know what the -- what 15 background they may have had short of a criminal 16 offense that might place them at higher risk of 17 either a victim or predator. 18 HARLEY LAPPIN: Talking about staff? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Staff. Contractors, 20 staff. 21 HARLEY LAPPIN: Again, the background 202 1 check is a pretty rigorous process. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's just for arrest 3 and convictions, isn't it? 4 HARLEY LAPPIN: Very possibly. Someone 5 who was fired from a job for that behavior, there's 6 going to be some limitations on what that former 7 employer can provide to us. But certainly there is 8 vetting with former employers. If they worked for 9 the state correction system or a local correction 10 system, or elsewhere, we certainly -- we do some 11 vetting with those folks and we may come across 12 information. Which you're right -- I mean, most 13 often it's arrests, convictions, bankruptcy, things 14 that are documented in the record that we have the 15 easiest access to. The other information you may 16 become aware of, you may not. On the other hand, I 17 can tell you, sometimes we go through the whole 18 interview process and we have hired a person and 19 then we get the background check and find they 20 misled us. It's typically lied to us on that 21 application process is means for termination. And 203 1 so it's very easily handled quickly if in fact that 2 background information reveals they misled us during 3 that interview process. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Director Lappin, in 5 your opening remarks you mentioned safety and 6 security and surveillance and classification of 7 housing and training staff, and you also indicated 8 that one of your values is instilling in staff a 9 sense of modeling correct and appropriate behavior. 10 I was very pleased to hear you say that because I 11 believe so strongly that it is important that an 12 appropriate behavior be modeled at all times for 13 inmates. How do you keep that alive? What emphasis 14 do you place -- I know the easy answer is 15 training -- but what specific training -- how does 16 that permeate throughout prisons? What are you 17 doing along those lines to push that? 18 HARLEY LAPPIN: Let me -- it's a very good 19 question, and in one way very easy to answer. We 20 have been very fortunate in the Federal prison 21 system that we have had a similar mission for 77 204 1 years and similar expectation, my guess, at least 2 for the last 30 or 40 years. Because I often speak 3 with the former directors who were directors at that 4 time. And there's always been an expectation of how 5 we manage to treat inmates, and always an 6 expectation that you -- we emphasize the importance 7 of inmate -- staff and inmate communication. That 8 has evolved into a philosophy, into a culture. 9 Across the board, our turnover rate is relatively 10 low. If you look at the turnover rate of the 11 Federal prison system, relatively low. Oftentimes 12 if an employee comes to work for us after a year, 13 and they have adjusted and they think, yeah, this is 14 for me, I enjoy working in a correctional setting, I 15 can work with inmates, they oftentimes stay with us 16 for a career. Granted, if you go to certain 17 locations, high cost of living areas, New York, 18 Brooklyn, Los Angeles, wherever the facilities are 19 located, it's little more of a challenge given the 20 competitive nature of the weight salaries. So it's 21 a little more difficult. But the benefit to that is 205 1 we have a very experienced staff. It's not uncommon 2 for many of our employees, some of them whom are 3 sitting right behind me, to have 10, 15, 20 years of 4 experience. That goes a long, long way in carrying 5 on this philosophy, this culture, that we expect you 6 to interact with inmates, we expect you to listen to 7 inmates and resolve most issues and concerns through 8 open, honest communication. If you come visit, 9 you'll find that our staff -- we have no weapons in 10 our institution, only the tower externally. They 11 don't carry batons, they don't carry gas, they get a 12 set of keys and radio and body armor. Then through 13 that expectation -- the culture, philosophy and 14 training that emphasize this approach, we continue 15 to carry on that tradition. I think it's really 16 important. I think certainly the direct supervision 17 of inmates, the expectation of how we resolve 18 issues, how we conduct ourselves in those 19 institutions has influence on the environment of our 20 institution. Again, I think it's stronger in some 21 locations than others. We've opened, obviously -- 206 1 if you're not aware, 1980, we had 26,000 inmates. 2 Today, we have 201,000 inmates. So in the last 27 3 years we have built and opened many new 4 institutions -- a bit of a challenge in bringing on 5 that many new employees. To offset, we try to move 6 in a third or maybe more of the employees who are 7 going to operate that facility from other locations. 8 So they bring that expectation, that culture, that 9 knowledge to assist us in training and developing 10 new employees to come on board. Are they 11 necessarily as strong at those skills as other, more 12 experienced people? Not necessarily so -- but over 13 the course of time. Schuylkill, for example, 15, 16 14 years old, relatively young compared to many of our 15 facilities. Thirty-seven of our facilities are 50 16 years of age or older. And so we think it's 17 important. It's a little more expensive, but we'll 18 move a cadre of staff to those locations to assist 19 us in training and developing those new employees as 20 they come to work. So I think the level of 21 experience, our ability to retain qualified, 207 1 competent employees, allows that culture, that 2 philosophy to carry out. We've seen a little -- 3 obviously in the last few years we have hired a lot 4 of employees, a new generation of employees that 5 were brought up in a lock-them-up-and-throw-away- 6 the-key environment. Somewhat of a little difficult 7 transition into this approach, but I think in most 8 places we have been successful in carrying that out. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What about your 10 special programs? What about the emphasis on 11 special programs? We heard a lot this morning about 12 the peer education program and its success. 13 HARLEY LAPPIN: Have a number of those 14 programs. Obviously, you heard my comments 15 emphasizing the importance of programs in the 16 institutions. If you look at our distribution of 17 staff and you compare it to space, you'll see a 18 significant difference. Our ratio of correctional 19 staff to inmates is about one employee, one 20 correctional officer, to nine or ten inmates. Now, 21 our overall ratio is about one to 4.9. The balance 208 1 of those employees are in program areas, 2 psychologists, chaplains, teachers, food service, 3 facilities work, all of whom are correctional 4 workers. Day in and day out, most of the time, our 5 facilities run safely, we aren't locked down, we're 6 not having disruptions, that allow those staff who 7 are not in correctional services to focus on their 8 primary responsibility, education, vocational 9 training, drug treatment, programs like you've 10 mentioned. If there's a problem, if there's a 11 disruption, we can take those staff and they will 12 work as correctional staff until that dilemma is 13 resolved. That affords us the opportunity to have a 14 lot of programming, a lot of opportunity for inmates 15 to keep them conductively occupied in enhancing 16 skills they need to be successful upon release. 17 Every inmate has a job who is medically able to 18 work. And inmates are expected -- we don't force 19 inmates into programs. The only program we really 20 force them into is work. They all have a work 21 assignment, unless they are medically unable to 209 1 work. Certainly, a lot of the inmates are involved 2 each and every day in the prison industry, 3 education, vocational programs, and drug treatment. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Director, I believe 5 your budget has not increased eight-fold along with 6 your population, is that fair to say, in the last 27 7 years? 8 HARLEY LAPPIN: Let me say, Mr. Chairman, 9 the Bureau of Prisons has been very fortunate. As 10 it grew through the 80s and 90s and early 2002, we 11 were provided for very well by the Congress and the 12 Administration to open prisons and to staff prisons. 13 Without a doubt, since 9/11 there's been a 14 re-prioritization, understandably so. We haven't 15 seen the level of funding we enjoyed in the past. 16 It has had an impact. On the ratio, the ratio has 17 grown. There is fewer staff and more inmates. We 18 have had to do some streamlining, some consolidation 19 that has impacted the programs. I still firmly 20 believe we have safe and secure institutions. We 21 provide as many skill-fitting programs for inmates 210 1 as we possibly can with the funding that we have. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, we're trying to 3 isolate characteristics or recommendations that 4 we can pass on to the Commission. I'm wondering if 5 you're comfortable with a ratio of one correctional 6 officer to nine or ten inmates. 7 HARLEY LAPPIN: I am. As long as the 8 overall ratio -- 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is one to 4.9. 10 HARLEY LAPPIN: To be honest with you, 11 Steve, I think it's a little too high. 4.9. I am 12 concerned. Again, I don't think there's a magic 13 formula out there. That's why I've kind of taken a 14 position this year that we cannot reduce staff -- be 15 quite honest with you. I've taken a pretty firm 16 position that we should not lower staff in any 17 further institution than we already have. I think 18 that sends the signal that there is a concern on my 19 part that we've gone as low as we can in the way of 20 staff. It's pretty simple: more inmates, fewer 21 staff, more idles, does not equal success. Now, 211 1 again, I still believe we're operating safe, secure 2 institutions, providing the programs -- but I think 3 at some point you got to step back and say, I think 4 we're at that point where we have to take a 5 position. And I am hopeful that we can be funded at 6 a level that allows us to bring that ratio down a 7 little bit compared to what it currently is. But -- 8 I'm okay with the one to nine in the system that we 9 have given the fact that all of our staff are 10 correctional workers. To me, I focus on the overall 11 ratio, which right now is about 1 in 4.7, 1 in 4.9. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have -- I don't 13 know if there's any more questions, but Director 14 Lappin, do you have an opinion as to why the 15 Schuylkill facility has such a low incidence? 16 HARLEY LAPPIN: I think, again, they 17 understand the policy, they do their jobs, as we 18 expect them to do it. Not unlike any of our other 19 locations. I think the classification system in the 20 Bureau is effective. It identifies inmates for 21 appropriate placement at Schuylkill. And when the 212 1 classification system has not addressed an issue, 2 the folks realize that and step back and hold before 3 they put somebody in the general population, either 4 to a higher security level or a lower security 5 level, depending on their assessment of the 6 individual. I think there's good oversight. 7 Besides us being a policy-driven agency, and to some 8 people -- find to be a detriment. I mean, we do 9 have a lot of policy. We have an internal review 10 process. We have a program review division who goes 11 out yearly and evaluates our staff's compliance with 12 TASS, as well as American Correctional Association, 13 Joint Commission on Health Care Organizations, who 14 come in externally. So there's quite a bit of 15 oversight given that practice. We also do 16 institution character profiles, which really focuses 17 on the communication that exists within an 18 institution. It's really focused on management. 19 And we go in there and ask a series of questions of 20 staff and inmates about the flow of communication 21 within an institution, professionalism, about 213 1 community relations. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How often do you do 3 that? 4 HARLEY LAPPIN: Once every three years. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: For all 140? 6 HARLEY LAPPIN: All 114 institutions. And 7 if we sense -- this is more of a management tool, 8 they are not in there checking the boxes, are you 9 following policy? It's more of a sense of, is there 10 good communication from the top to the bottom and 11 bottom to the top? Is there good communication 12 between staff and inmates? Do we see during the 13 week we're there inmates approaching staff? Do we 14 see staff resolving problems? We look at the 15 administrative remedies. Do we get a sense that 16 there's a lot of remedies that come up that could 17 have been resolved informally rather than formally? 18 Recognizing some inmates who like to write. We 19 relate to that. So you got to step back and assess 20 all this. This is, again, a management tool to get 21 a sense of the climate, environment of an 214 1 institution. I'm sure Schuylkill has been through a 2 number of them. I, as a warden, went through many 3 of them, and as a regional director conducted many 4 of them. To be quite honest with you, as regional 5 director, within a day, day and a half, I had a very 6 good sense of how effective the executive staff of 7 that facility -- warden, associate warden, executive 8 leadership were communicating with the subordinate 9 staff. And when I observed situations that I didn't 10 think were consistent with what we expected, we 11 would make adjustments, either training, correction, 12 advice, or personnel changes sometimes. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: With -- when I went and 14 toured the Petersburg facility a couple years ago, I 15 was really impressed -- at lunch you had the main 16 line, where you had, in this case, the director of 17 the BOP, you had the warden, associate warden, 18 captain, all lined up, they are not eating, they are 19 available. Was that an exception or is that 20 something you expect -- we should expect to find in 21 any of your other facilities? 215 1 HARLEY LAPPIN: You should expect to find 2 that at all facilities that have a food service 3 operation where the inmates come to a specific area 4 to eat, to a dining hall. So we have a few places 5 that are jail-type facilities, inmates eat on the 6 floor. So 95 percent of our facilities, that's an 7 expectation. For the staff who are on assignment to 8 be at a main line -- in fact, sometimes they are 9 scheduled -- they want some at breakfast, they want 10 some at lunch, the majority of them at lunch, they 11 want some in the evening. And given the fact that 12 some of our staff have volunteered for compressed 13 work schedules -- it actually affords you more of 14 that opportunity because of someone working a 15 ten-hour shift rather than an eight-hour shift, 16 which means you can have more of them on a morning 17 meal or noon meal or evening meal. The jails. The 18 jails require staff to be more mobile. They have 19 got to go to the floors. Because there's not a 20 common area where inmates assemble to eat or to 21 program, given the fact that jails oftentimes 216 1 operate on separate tiers within that jail, 2 separated by floors rather than institutions. At 3 those locations it's a little bit different 4 expectation, as far as staff are expected to be more 5 mobile to make it to each of those floors over the 6 course of the week and interact. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Talking about the jails 8 that you rent beds from? 9 HARLEY LAPPIN: No, actually we operate, I 10 can't remember exactly how many, but probably about 11 ten or 12 metropolitan correctional centers or 12 metropolitan detention centers -- New York, 13 Brooklyn, Chicago, L.A., San Diego, Houston, Miami, 14 Honolulu, Puerto Rico -- that are basically built to 15 house pre- and post-trial inmates. About 16 35 percent, 30 to 35 percent, of the individuals 17 coming to Federal custody pass through those jails 18 prior to being assigned to an institution. So it's 19 a great tool for us. We've got a burden of 20 pre-trial phase, so we begin to gather information, 21 unlike offenders who come to us from a county jail 217 1 or from a state facility, although I think relations 2 are such that we're rather picking up the 3 information from state and locals and them from us 4 as more offenders cross jurisdictional lines. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I just have one last 6 question. You mentioned private facilities, and the 7 importance of -- in your own facilities, of line of 8 sight in reducing sexual assault. Does the Bureau 9 get involved in the design of these private 10 facilities, Cornell, Yale, CCA and the rest, such -- 11 or are they otherwise motivated to think about line 12 of sight as opposed to bottom line? 13 HARLEY LAPPIN: Steve, Mr. Chairman, I 14 don't think we get directly involved in their 15 design, but -- to my knowledge. However, I don't 16 think they really have a choice, because what we 17 have learned -- design is critically important. 18 What we have learned about design allows us to have 19 a better line of sight -- not only a better line of 20 sight, but run prisons more efficiently. We could 21 watch more people with fewer inmates -- I'm sorry, 218 1 more inmates with fewer staff, because we can see 2 more from a given location. And when you install 3 cameras, you have more visibility than the 4 older-designed facilities. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are you moving to more 6 cameras? 7 HARLEY LAPPIN: Oh, absolutely. So all of 8 our facilities, one, are designed in a manner that 9 gives us the greatest range of view. They are 10 designed with cameras installed -- we're putting 11 cameras throughout the prison system, even in older 12 facilities -- little more challenge given the design 13 of those institutions. Without a doubt, the new 14 design reduce costs. As you can imagine, the 15 privates just like us are looking at lowering cost, 16 and I think they are driven by that without our 17 direct involvement. But what we do at private 18 contract facilities, we have typically, at a 19 minimum, three employees at our private contract 20 facilities, 13 of them, and so there are three 21 employees assigned there to oversee the contract. 219 1 We don't just award a contract and leave and come 2 back once a month, twice a month. We have staff 3 onsite five days a week, sometimes on the weekends, 4 ensuring the compliance with that contract. They 5 also go through a program review. We've taken that 6 same program review process that we have for our own 7 institutions and adopted it for those contract 8 facilities to have programming, so we ensure their 9 compliance policies. And our residential reentry 10 centers, our halfway houses, we don't have staff 11 onsite at every one of those but there are routine 12 weekly visits, typically unannounced, to go in and 13 assess their compliance with those contracts as 14 well. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You brought up RRCs. 16 Do you have any means of oversight other than what 17 you just described, drop-in visits, on the 18 prevalence of sexual assault in those halfway 19 houses? 20 HARLEY LAPPIN: As much of concern there 21 as anywhere else. They're still our offenders. 220 1 We're still responsible for their safe, secure 2 incarceration. So, again, the contractors that work 3 there go through a vetting process, a background 4 check. When incidents occur, there is a referral 5 and an investigation. And if, in fact, we found the 6 staff misbehaved, we're working with the contractor 7 to make sure that that doesn't occur, person is 8 removed, whatever the consequences of their 9 behavior. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What percentage of your 11 folks go through an RRC? 12 HARLEY LAPPIN: Bureau of Prisons? Over 13 80 percent of our offenders. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Eighty? 15 HARLEY LAPPIN: Eighty -- of offenders who 16 are releasing to communities in the United States go 17 through a residential reentry center. We use them 18 heavily because we see greater success upon release 19 if they are transitioning out through a halfway 20 house. We rely on that very heavily. We probably 21 have about 250 contractors nationwide. 221 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 250 RRCs? 2 HARLEY LAPPIN: We can get you the exact 3 number, Mr. Chairman. Again, over 80 percent of 4 offenders go through. The majority of those who 5 don't are folks who are deemed -- 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I take it you think 7 that cameras are worth the expenditure not only of 8 money but also of personnel to sit in front of the 9 monitor? 10 HARLEY LAPPIN: Or inmates. I think they 11 are a good investment, because there's more eyes 12 watching and there's more capability of us to go 13 back and see what happened. Many of those reviews 14 of those tapes tell us a lot of information about 15 inmates, who they are interacting with, who they are 16 associating with, what type -- the manner in which 17 they are conducting themselves. So we certainly 18 believe they are a very valuable resource. We also 19 record every single phone call. We don't listen to 20 all the phone calls. We listen to a portion of 21 them. But certainly if we have a concern over 222 1 something that's going on with an offender, we might 2 put them on a monitoring list and listen to all 3 their phone calls or read all of their mail. If, 4 for whatever reason, we think there's a concern, 5 investigation, or evidence to lead us to something 6 going on that's inappropriate, the warden has the 7 authority to say, I want every piece of mail, I want 8 every phone call monitored on that individual. And 9 oftentimes that gives us insight into what's going 10 on with a sexual relationship, inappropriate 11 behavior, misconduct. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have an opinion 13 as to whether cameras are worth it from -- in order 14 to record what happened and do the investigations 15 even if you can't afford the personnel to sit in 16 front of them and watch real time? 17 HARLEY LAPPIN: I do. I don't think you 18 have to have someone there watching every camera. I 19 think it has an impact just the fact that -- they 20 know you've got more visibility, there is a record 21 of what occurs. We use handheld cameras when 223 1 there's an incident. If you look at our use of 2 force policy, it mandates a use of a camera to 3 record the event and help us document what occurred. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Those occur, but I 5 think I have all my questions answered. I'm 6 thinking about restorative justice programs, I'm 7 thinking about the roles of victims in prisons and 8 how important it is. But I thank you. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you very much, 10 Mr. Director. Appreciate your time and work. We're 11 now privileged to have the next panel, Glenn 12 Walters, psychologist from Schuylkill. What's your 13 pronunciation of that name, Schuylkill? 14 GLENN WALTERS: Schuylkill. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Schuylkill. Bruce 16 Kovach, lieutenant from Schuylkill, and David 17 Steffan, the physician assistant from that facility. 18 Good afternoon. Welcome. Would you raise your 19 right hand and I'll swear you in. Do you solemnly 20 swear or affirm that the testimony you'll provide to 21 this Panel this afternoon will be the truth, the 224 1 whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 2 WITNESSES: Yes. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It would be helpful if 4 each of you would just take 30 seconds and describe 5 what your job description is, what you do at 6 Schuylkill. We have a general idea, but I want to 7 make sure we're right. 8 GLENN WALTERS: I'm one of the 9 psychologists at SS Schuylkill. During the period 10 when the evaluation was being done, I was the sole 11 psychologist, so I oversaw some of the assistant 12 program coordinators for the sexual assault 13 prevention program. That's how I sort of got 14 involved with this. Right now I'm currently the 15 drug treatment psychologist. We have a chief 16 psychologist, but she is relatively new. That's 17 basically my involvement. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about -- who is 19 the PREA coordinator? 20 GLENN WALTERS: The PREA coordinator is 21 the associate warden for programs, Trish Rodman. 225 1 The assistant PREA coordinator would be Doctor Terry 2 Backer, our chief psychologist. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are either of those 4 folks here today? 5 GLENN WALTERS: No. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The PREA coordinator 7 would be the associate warden, Trish. 8 GLENN WALTERS: Rodman. Associate warden 9 of programs. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Psychologist. 11 No, Lieutenant Kovach. 12 BRUCE KOVACH: My title is special 13 investigative supervisor. My office is charged with 14 staff misconduct, also inmate misconduct. We also 15 monitor gang activities. We are in charge -- in 16 speaking to the director about the cameras, we 17 pretty much oversee the camera monitoring. 18 Telephone monitoring falls upon us. We also do drug 19 monitoring, alcohol monitoring. Any out of the 20 ordinary misconduct or anything that could lead to a 21 criminal prosecution runs through my department. 226 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long have you 2 been in corrections? 3 BRUCE KOVACH: Twenty-one years. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long at 5 Schuylkill? 6 BRUCE KOVACH: Seventeen. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Steffan. 8 DAVID STEFFAN: One of the mid-level 9 providers, actually trained as an physician 10 assistant, one of five that work at Schuylkill. We 11 see inmates on sick call, chronic care clinics, and 12 whatever inmates present for any type of medical 13 assessment, injury reports, or any type of medical 14 clearance. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long have you 16 been at Schuylkill? 17 DAVID STEFFAN: Since 1992. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how about generally 19 in corrections? 20 DAVID STEFFAN: First institution. Very 21 happy there. 227 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Great. I didn't ask 2 the same of you, Mr. Walters. 3 GLENN WALTERS: Twenty-six years in 4 corrections, 16 in Schuylkill. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Doesn't sound like you 6 have much turnover at Schuylkill. 7 GLENN WALTERS: No, we don't. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How would you describe 9 the environment or culture as far as sexual remarks, 10 jokes, stories, monikers, labels, either by staff or 11 inmates, any of you? 12 BRUCE KOVACH: It's not tolerated, sir. 13 We make sure that our staff are aware of the 14 intolerance as part of the code of conduct. Also, 15 inmates are held to a higher code, no profanity, no 16 racial remarks, although it's hard to enforce in any 17 environment. We try to make them understand that 18 this is what we expect. And I think we do a 19 relatively good job at our institution because we 20 have, since I've been there, since it opened, we 21 have not had any racial tensions, so to speak. We 228 1 haven't had any real drug problems as related to 2 your question, sir. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And so am I to 4 understand that if a correctional officer were to 5 hear another officer refer to an inmate audibly 6 as -- refer to his sexual orientation or that he was 7 gay or fresh meat or something, that that -- what 8 would be expected of the officer who made that 9 remark or heard that remark? 10 BRUCE KOVACH: I would expect the officer 11 hearing that remark to report that remark, if it was 12 a derogatory statement. If it's a statement of, 13 this inmate appears to be gay, that's good 14 information to pass along, I believe, along with, 15 this inmate appears to belong to this gang. It's 16 information we need to know. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm talking about 18 audibly saying it in front of other inmates. 19 BRUCE KOVACH: In front of other inmates, 20 no, we don't tolerate that. And I would expect the 21 other officer, if one officer makes the discretion, 229 1 the other officer hearing that should correct that 2 immediately. And if it's a reportable incident, one 3 of them needs to come to me. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So, Lieutenant, you 5 mentioned you are in charge of staff misconduct and 6 have been there for 17 years. Have you been in 7 that -- 8 BRUCE KOVACH: No, just for the last four. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Last four. But in the 10 last four years, to the extent there was misconduct, 11 you're going to hear about it firsthand; is that 12 right? 13 BRUCE KOVACH: Yes, sir. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what's your 15 understanding of the -- the proper protocol for 16 handling allegations of sexual misconduct by a 17 staff? What's suppose to happen? 18 BRUCE KOVACH: You mean staff and inmate? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What did I say? I 20 meant staff-on-inmate misconduct, either harassment 21 or touching or -- 230 1 BRUCE KOVACH: Allegations will be 2 reported, whether it's from an inmate to a staff 3 member, an inmate through a written complaint, or a 4 staff member observing this and making a report of 5 this, and then we follow up with it appropriately. 6 As the Director said, we take whatever immediate 7 action would be necessary to alleviate any ongoing 8 problem. We'd stop that. I would make my concerns 9 known to the warden and we would refer it up through 10 OIA, OIG, and they may refer it back to me for 11 investigation or take it upon themselves to 12 investigate. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What are the different 14 roles of OIA and OIG? 15 BRUCE KOVACH: OIA is Bureau of Internal 16 Affairs. We look for misconduct. OIG would be 17 brought in if it appears to be or possibly be 18 criminal. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Staff-on-inmate, 20 criminal, or inmate-on-inmate? 21 BRUCE KOVACH: Staff, inmate, criminal. 231 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how would you know 2 whether it appears to be criminal, as opposed to 3 noncriminal staff misconduct? 4 BRUCE KOVACH: An example would be an 5 inmate complaining of a staff pat search, says they 6 became too familiar. That's not criminal on part of 7 that staff member's job. I would investigate that 8 as misconduct. If we would receive a complaint of a 9 sexual encounter, so forth, I would, again, through 10 my administration, make referral to OIA, who would 11 refer to OIG, because that would be considered a 12 fusible ward if there was that type of sexual 13 misconduct, whether it's, how can I say, beyond the 14 everyday job of the employee: you need this from 15 me, I need sex from you type allegation, that would 16 be a fusible ward. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That would go to OIG. 18 BRUCE KOVACH: OIG. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Walters, did you 20 say that you are a part of the SART team? Is there 21 a SART team at Schuylkill? 232 1 GLENN WALTERS: No. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: There is not? 3 GLENN WALTERS: SART team, referring to? 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sexual assault response 5 team. 6 GLENN WALTERS: Well, yeah, I mean -- when 7 you use the word team, we don't really have a team. 8 There's several of us that get involved, obviously. 9 I'm involved at the level -- if there's an 10 allegation made, I'll interview the inmate, any who 11 would be involved, SIS lieutenant, administration, 12 those sorts of -- medical will be involved. In that 13 sense, it's not really a team where we get together 14 and meet and that sort of thing. But we do have to 15 confer, we do have to exchange notes and come to 16 some conclusion and provide information to the 17 warden to make a decision. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But there's no set 19 procedure or protocol, that you're supposed to 20 spring into action, the following individuals are 21 supposed to do the following forensics and go 233 1 through the following steps? 2 GLENN WALTERS: Sure, everybody has their 3 responsibilities, and as the psychologist my 4 responsibility would be to interview the inmates and 5 then to provide any kind of follow-up if that's 6 required. That's my part of the whole -- 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who else is on the SART 8 team? 9 GLENN WALTERS: It would also be the SIS 10 lieutenant. Yes. Mr. Kovach. Also would be a 11 medical person, PA or whatever. Right now we just 12 have PAs. Those would be the primary people. Of 13 course, Trish Rodman, who is considered the PREA 14 coordinator, would also be involved sort of 15 overseeing the whole process. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How long has she been 17 in that position as PREA coordinator? 18 GLENN WALTERS: She's been at Schuylkill 19 for approximately four years, five years. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When was she appointed 21 PREA coordinator? 234 1 GLENN WALTERS: That I don't know. I'm 2 not sure. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Question: 4 Mr. Walters, as the psychologist, one of the 5 resident psychologists over there, you interview 6 inmates frequently? 7 GLENN WALTERS: Yes. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What do they tell you, 9 if they ever comment in terms of their greatest 10 fears of being incarcerated? Do they ever express 11 to you what it is they fear most? 12 GLENN WALTERS: Well, yes. Well, fear is 13 something that most inmates aren't willing to 14 acknowledge in most cases. They try to hide that. 15 Yeah, I do run groups, I do run programs, I do get a 16 little deeper than just the superficial intake 17 interview we do with all inmates. And the kind of 18 things are things along the lines of, basically they 19 have a lot of fears concerning -- I'm talking about 20 inmates who actually show some degree of interest in 21 making some changes. One of the biggest fears they 235 1 have is asking if they can make it, if they go out 2 there and they really do want to make it, making it 3 or fail -- so fear of failure to try to make it. 4 Other ones have a fear of being taken advantage of, 5 not just sexually but in a lot of different ways. 6 Being seen as weak is a big issue for a lot of 7 inmates, so they have a real concern with other 8 inmates seeing them as being weak or easily 9 manipulated or abused or what have you. So those 10 are some of the common fears they express. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do they ever express 12 fear of staff? 13 GLENN WALTERS: On occasion. Usually, 14 it's more animosity toward staff than fear, but 15 occasionally they might express. I wouldn't say 16 it's a common fear that I've come across, but there 17 have been times, yes. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: You had indicated you 19 run groups. Do you run any groups specific on 20 sexual assault? 21 GLENN WALTERS: No. My groups deal more 236 1 with criminal lifestyle, drug lifestyle -- 2 lifestyles so individuals can live longer lives. If 3 we were going to work with someone who was sexually 4 assaulted, it would be more individual, it would 5 be -- what I would be evaluating is the degree of 6 anxiety and turmoil and stress created by the 7 assault, and then sort of working with those 8 symptoms. Post-traumatic stress syndrome is very 9 common in people who have been sexually assaulted, 10 so evaluating for that and helping them work through 11 that. I do realize one of the best interventions 12 for post-traumatic stress disorder is group 13 intervention, people who have gone through the same 14 sort of experience. We do not have that. It's a 15 very low rate, say, of verified sexual assault. Not 16 just at Schuylkill, but in the whole Federal prison 17 system. In addition to that, when you work in the 18 prison you have to be careful of singling them out, 19 identifying them. You run groups -- I know in other 20 prisons I've worked when I was in the military, we 21 were running groups for sex offenders, and obviously 237 1 they were targeted by other people in the 2 population. So you have to be careful what kind of 3 groups you run because you could be targeting them 4 for some kind of retaliation or whatever. So, for 5 various reasons, we don't do groups of people who 6 were sexually assaulted. What we do is individual 7 counseling to sort of help them work through the 8 trauma and the stress and give them the resources to 9 start coping with their situation. Fortunately, we 10 haven't had to do a lot of that. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What kind of numbers 12 have you seen in terms of inmates who have been 13 sexually assaulted? 14 GLENN WALTERS: Very few. To be honest 15 with you, in the reporting period we went through, 16 we had five incidents. Four alleged 17 staff-on-inmate, none of which was substantiated, 18 and one inmate-on-inmate, which is still currently 19 being evaluated by the FBI. None of those were 20 really verified. I have worked at other 21 institutions where I've worked with individuals that 238 1 have been raped, but I would say the numbers may be 2 two or three inmates. I'm not saying those are the 3 only inmates that were ever raped or assaulted in 4 the institutions I've worked in; those are the only 5 ones I've worked with. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Those incidents 7 occurred during what period? You said a reported 8 period? 9 GLENN WALTERS: The last one was whatever 10 we reported -- 2006, I think it's 2006. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: When an inmate makes a 12 complaint, is that inmate immediately set aside in 13 another environment, or is that individual left to 14 remain there in the same cell, in the same area? 15 GLENN WALTERS: No, they are normally put 16 in segregation. Not, again, for punishment -- 17 administrative attention is actually the official 18 terminology -- for their own protection while we can 19 investigate. We certainly don't want to keep them 20 out there in the population where they can be 21 further intimidated or abused further or whatever. 239 1 As well as the alleged perpetrator, if we have that 2 information -- also offer him up for administrative 3 attention while the lieutenant did their 4 investigation, got all that information together. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The five incidents you 6 mentioned, these are all at Schuylkill? 7 GLENN WALTERS: Yes. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: During calendar '06? 9 GLENN WALTERS: I can't remember if it was 10 calendar '06 or fiscal '06. It was last reporting 11 period we used. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And to what extent were 13 you involved in any of those? 14 GLENN WALTERS: I was involved in all of 15 them. Well, I can't say all of them. 16 Inmate-on-inmate I was called in. That happened on 17 a weekend. In fact, Lieutenant Kovach -- both of 18 them had to come in that evening and do the 19 interviews with the inmates and try to figure out 20 what was going on. Because what happens is, when we 21 do our psychological interviews, Lieutenant Kovach 240 1 does his investigation, starts his investigation, PA 2 will come in and do their evaluation, and we will 3 send the inmate out to the hospital, they will do 4 the rape kit and get all that information. So we do 5 respond quickly to those sort of things. That's not 6 something you wait two or three days to evaluate. 7 You come right in and do that. The staff ones, the 8 alleged staff ones, none of those -- I think I might 9 have been involved in one or two, talking to the 10 inmates, but in those cases they weren't substantial 11 enough for me to even get involved at that point. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What were the nature of 13 their allegations? 14 GLENN WALTERS: One was -- two of them 15 involved officers being overly aggressive in their 16 pat searches. One -- 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In a sexual way? Were 18 these -- these are just misconduct, not necessarily 19 sexual misconduct? 20 GLENN WALTERS: Well, they were saying 21 that they went through their crotch area too much. 241 1 That was something that was investigated. In one 2 case, I did talk to the inmate. I knew the inmate 3 and he knew me, so I did talk with him and deal with 4 some of his feelings about that. Sort of an ongoing 5 thing. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Did you believe him? 7 GLENN WALTERS: Did I believe that he had 8 been sexually assaulted? 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 10 GLENN WALTERS: Not really. I think he 11 was -- my own personal opinion, I knew this inmate 12 quite well, he was a litigious inmate, he would 13 often bring lawsuits and things of that sort. I 14 think the officer certainly went into the crotch 15 area, but that's what he's supposed to do. Inmates 16 will hide in those areas with the assumption that 17 officers will be afraid to go and search that area 18 properly. And so my own personal feeling -- well, I 19 won't say I thought he was lying. I didn't really 20 necessarily think it was the extent that he thought 21 it was. But I worked with him nonetheless, because 242 1 he obviously had some feelings about it, whether 2 they were legitimate or not, and I just dealt with 3 it face value, rather than making a judgment saying 4 you're pulling my leg or you're lying. And that's 5 the way I try to approach things -- even if I don't 6 necessarily believe in their allegations, I still 7 treat it as if they are true and then we go from 8 there. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: For purposes of 10 treatment but not the investigation? 11 GLENN WALTERS: Not really -- in terms of 12 our investigation, I simply relay whatever I find 13 out in terms -- the psychological impact on the 14 inmate. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But you tell Lieutenant 16 Kovach whether you think the person is credible? 17 GLENN WALTERS: I may. If he asks me, 18 yeah, for what it's worth. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you find many 20 victims that you counsel, or alleged victims, to be 21 credible? 243 1 GLENN WALTERS: Yeah, I have found some. 2 None of the ones we're talking about recently. But, 3 yes, I have had individuals who I truly believed 4 were raped. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: At Schuylkill? 6 GLENN WALTERS: Not at Schuylkill, no. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you ever reached 8 the conclusion that it was more likely than not that 9 an inmate had been sexually assaulted at Schuylkill? 10 GLENN WALTERS: No. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Not in 17 years? 12 GLENN WALTERS: Not in 16 years? 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Or 16 years? 14 GLENN WALTERS: No. I can honestly say 15 that. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Can you describe who 17 are the most vulnerable inmates? From a 18 psychological perspective, what's the profile of 19 folks who are most likely to become victims? 20 GLENN WALTERS: Smaller inmates. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In stature? 244 1 GLENN WALTERS: In stature. Can't defend 2 themselves. Inmates who don't have anybody to 3 support them -- sort of loners, don't have a group, 4 don't have the people from their hometown. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No gang. 6 GLENN WALTERS: No gang or no affiliation, 7 those sorts of things. First-time offenders who are 8 basically naive to the system are often prey -- at 9 risk for being preyed upon. Inmates who are 10 basically just weak in terms of the -- 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about perceived to 12 be effeminate? 13 GLENN WALTERS: I could see that as being 14 a possible -- 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It's a question, not -- 16 GLENN WALTERS: I'm just trying to think 17 through that. I would see that more -- them seeing 18 them as being weak, not being able to defend 19 themselves. There are some individuals who are 20 actively homosexual, who consensually engage in sex 21 with other inmates, and sometimes they can be some 245 1 of the most vocal, most dangerous inmates in terms 2 of physical -- so you can't really make those kind 3 of assumptions, just because someone is effeminate 4 that they're going to be easy. I think inmates have 5 learned that, they know that you have to be very 6 careful. These individuals are very good at picking 7 up on subtle cues, and the things they're looking at 8 is the individual who doesn't seem like they have 9 any support, seems to be weak, seems to be 10 inexperienced, and doesn't know their way around the 11 institution. So inmates who are very effeminate, 12 okay, outwardly, are actually, you know, very wise 13 to the ways of the institutions. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Or they may have 15 someone who controls them? 16 GLENN WALTERS: Yeah. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What about older 18 inmates, is that a vulnerability, age? 19 GLENN WALTERS: Sure. In terms of just 20 being taken advantage of? 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Uh-huh. 246 1 GLENN WALTERS: Yeah, being an older 2 inmate, can't take care of yourself as well. There 3 are some inmates, some younger inmates, however, 4 that will sort of take care of some of the older 5 inmates. They see them as not too bad a guy, say 6 he's an old guy, he's got all these medical 7 problems, he can't take care of himself. So some of 8 the young guys will step up for that individual. 9 Certainly age could also be seen as a vulnerability 10 if you can't take care of yourself. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about one of these 12 folks that you mentioned earlier, an inmate who is 13 known to be litigious? Doesn't that make him, 14 unless he's a gang member, more of a mark because 15 nobody is going to believe him? 16 GLENN WALTERS: I guess that could happen. 17 I see more that individuals who are litigious are 18 often protected because other inmates use them to do 19 their legal work, so they are often sought after. 20 In certain groups -- certain organized crime groups 21 will often use the more intelligent inmates and 247 1 litigious ones to do some of the legal things. When 2 I was at Leavenworth Penitentiary, there was a lot 3 more violence, but also saw a lot of inmates who 4 were more intelligent and were able to basically 5 survive in that environment because they hooked up 6 with gangs, groups who used their intelligence and 7 litigious abilities for their own ends. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I would ask 9 Mr. Steffan, what PREA training have you been given? 10 What training on sexual assaults and protocols for 11 treatment of forensic examination have you received? 12 DAVID STEFFAN: Nothing through PREA. But 13 on intake screening we ask them, have you been 14 physically, emotionally or sexually abused, or 15 assaulted in transit? Has that happened? Or if 16 they are received from the compound up to our 17 special housing, has anything occurred? And through 18 code of conduct, and our annual professional 19 training, called A.R.T., we reinforce it's not 20 condoned, it is unacceptable, they are a ward of the 21 state, and staff-on-inmate, there's no sexual 248 1 contact at all. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's the name of the 3 program in B.O.P. on sexual assault? 4 DAVID STEFFAN: It would be our annual 5 fresher training, A.R.T. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What if a sexual 7 assault occurs, what would be your role, how would 8 you be involved? 9 DAVID STEFFAN: I would be usually called 10 up or they would be bringing them down to health 11 services, or I would go up to special housing and 12 examine the patient there. Basically look for cues 13 on their behavior, how are they acting, their 14 posturing. A lot of their history from the inmate. 15 We don't necessarily collect evidence, but we're 16 looking at -- for evidence, for the physical exam. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, do you have a 18 rape kit? 19 DAVID STEFFAN: No, we do not. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Who would then collect 21 the evidence? 249 1 DAVID STEFFAN: We tell the inmates, do 2 not -- you know, don't shower. The clothing is 3 usually collected or they remain in their clothing. 4 They will go directly down after their questioning 5 in-house -- down to our local emergency room. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So they have the rape 7 kit? 8 DAVID STEFFAN: Correct. They do the 9 actual collection of evidence. We try to contain it 10 and isolate it. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many officers 12 routinely need to escort such a victim to the E.R.? 13 DAVID STEFFAN: Minimum of two, and more 14 depending on the security level of the 15 institution -- or the inmate, sorry. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what would be -- 17 when is the -- what shift, is it the first watch 18 where you have the fewest number of custodial 19 officers, Lieutenant? 20 BRUCE KOVACH: Right. We call it the 21 morning watch, the midnight to 8:00. 250 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Midnight to 8:00. And 2 can you really afford to have two or three officers 3 during that watch, the morning watch, leave the 4 facility? 5 BRUCE KOVACH: We make them available. 6 It's not just in sexual assaults, but if we have an 7 inmate with a heart attack or serious medical 8 condition that can't be managed at the institutional 9 level, we send them out to an outside care facility. 10 And we make it happen without delay. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You don't -- you have a 12 staff psychologist, or several? 13 GLENN WALTERS: Right. Two. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Two. And are you 15 full-time now? 16 GLENN WALTERS: Yes. Both full-time. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And so is the other? 18 GLENN WALTERS: Correct. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you have five PAs? 20 DAVID STEFFAN: Correct. We work up until 21 about 11:00 o'clock -- 10:00 p.m., 11:00 o'clock. 251 1 After that time, we have an on-call system where you 2 would contact the provider. If we need to come in, 3 we would come in to the institution. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: During this period 5 when the inmate is being escorted out for -- for an 6 examination or collection of evidence, with perhaps 7 two people from the facility, who is addressing the 8 inmate's needs psychologically at that time in terms 9 of the impact of the trauma associated with the 10 assault? Victim advocate, someone trained who can 11 then address those issues? 12 GLENN WALTERS: It would be the 13 psychologist. That's one of the times where we have 14 to come in. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So you would be 16 involved throughout that period so that that person 17 understands exactly what has happened to them and 18 you can address those issues? 19 GLENN WALTERS: Correct. That's what Dave 20 was saying, we do -- we get all of the evaluation 21 done before we send the inmate out. So we have to 252 1 interview them before we can send them out. So I'll 2 come in or the other psychologist will come in, we 3 will interview them, Lieutenant Kovach will 4 interview, we'll do the preliminary investigation, 5 do the initial psychological assessment before we 6 send them out to the hospital. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Steffan, how would 8 an inmate communicate to you that he needs to be 9 seen for sexual assault? What are the options? 10 DAVID STEFFAN: There is many options. 11 First one would be sick call availability. If they 12 want to come up on sick call, they have privacy in 13 the waiting room to not write anything on the sick 14 call slip; they will be triaged that morning. We 15 determine whether or not they need to be seen that 16 same day. Usually it's one-on-one, there's nothing 17 done in the waiting room, so they have that privacy 18 issue right in front to tell us what the problem is. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What kind of permission 20 do they need to get in order to go to sick call? 21 DAVID STEFFAN: None. 253 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Just walk off the job? 2 DAVID STEFFAN: Sick call is available 3 from 6:30 a.m. to 7:00, Monday through Friday. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 6:30 a.m. to 7:00 a.m.? 5 DAVID STEFFAN: Correct. Then on 6 weekends, emergencies -- if this would happen after 7 what we call sign-ups, a detail supervisor would be 8 calling us, a work supervisor at their worksite, and 9 we would tell them they need to come over. Another 10 option would be they could write a cop out, they 11 can -- 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: A cop out? 13 DAVID STEFFAN: It's called an 14 authorization to staff member. It's an official 15 form. Or they can go and just write on a piece of 16 paper, sometimes up in special housing they put a 17 "PA stop here" sign or "need to see medical." So if 18 there's ever a privacy concern and they don't want 19 other inmates to see it, or staff members to see it, 20 they can at least speak to medical. They also have 21 the availability to speak to line staff, executive 254 1 staff who makes rounds up in our special housing 2 unit. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are the case counselors 4 in the residential area? 5 DAVID STEFFAN: Correct. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what are their 7 hours? 8 DAVID STEFFAN: They are on suppressed 9 schedules as well -- somewhere, usually, up until 10 10:00 at night. 11 BRUCE KOVACH: The counselors and the team 12 members do vary their hours so they are there early 13 in the morning and throughout the day and into the 14 evenings -- try to cover as many evenings as 15 possible, barring sick leave and admin leave. But 16 we do schedule -- or the unit team members do 17 schedule their hours to cover up through the time 18 that the inmates are recalled to their cells for the 19 count for the evening. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant, if an 21 inmate or staff member wanted to get away with 255 1 sexual conduct with another inmate, where would be 2 the best place for them to try that? Where is the 3 blind spots? If anybody knows them, you do. 4 BRUCE KOVACH: There are several blind 5 spots. As far as sexual misconduct, leading to 6 that, for that type of conduct, I would have to give 7 it a lot of thought. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm not necessarily 9 talking about coitus, it may be -- it may be 10 voyeurism, it may be a correctional officer wanting 11 to -- you know, wanting the individual to undress or 12 some kind of lesser touching. Anything that meets 13 your understanding of staff sexual misconduct, where 14 could it happen? Where is it most likely to happen? 15 BRUCE KOVACH: We're one of the 16 institutions that didn't originally have cameras. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Didn't originally? 18 BRUCE KOVACH: We did not originally have 19 cameras installed in our institution. Right now 20 we're up to 138 cameras. And it worked like the big 21 dog in your yard, could be the friendliest dog in 256 1 the world, but you never know. There are a few 2 places in the general housing units that still 3 aren't camerad -- that would be where the 4 counselors, the unit managers -- Doctor Walters has 5 an office in one of these areas. It's not camerad, 6 and let's say an officer has an opportunity to take 7 an inmate back to that area. That would offer them 8 some privacy. But, again, we do monitor those 9 doors, the coming and going through those doors, but 10 not actually in that area. There's some unmonitored 11 areas in our facilities department where the 12 plumbing, the carpenters, and so forth -- but it's a 13 high-traffic area as far as other inmates and staff. 14 So is parts of food service. On camera, it's 15 usually high volume -- lot of eyes, both inmate and 16 staff. So it would be -- I'm not saying we don't 17 have any of those areas, but they would have to have 18 a lot of thought into those areas. And we do have 19 them. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Kitchen? 21 BRUCE KOVACH: Kitchen is pretty high 257 1 volume, pretty open. It would be maybe a warehouse 2 area. But, again, that's windowed, so it would be 3 the opportunity for someone to look in. Same with 4 education. All the classrooms are very windowed. 5 We frown upon any obstruction over the windows in 6 any of the areas, primarily for staff safety, but 7 also it avoids issues that you're speaking about. 8 That was designed into our institutional regionally. 9 Some of the older institutions have more blind spots 10 than what we have at our institution. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Doctor Walters, I think 12 I owe you an apology. I've been -- I assume you 13 have a doctorate, Ph.D. 14 GLENN WALTERS: That's fine. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What is your 16 educational and professional expertise? 17 GLENN WALTERS: I have a Ph.D. in 18 counseling psychology from Texas Tech University. I 19 did my internship at Dwight Eisenhower Medical 20 Center, Fort Jordan, Georgia. And from there I went 21 to the disciplinary barracks at Fort Leavenworth, 258 1 USP Leavenworth. And I've been at Schuylkill for 2 the last 16 years. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I have a question, 4 Doctor Walters. As a psychologist staff, are you in 5 collaboration with any local victim assistance 6 programs? 7 GLENN WALTERS: No. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: May I ask why? Is 9 that just something you don't pursue, or you're not 10 contacted, or there's no effort to be in contact and 11 have a relationship with community-based 12 organizations, or victim assistance programs that 13 could assist perhaps with victim assistance? 14 GLENN WALTERS: We do have -- well, let me 15 rephrase that. We have a victim impact class that 16 we run. Our drug treatment specialist, Ms. Rodman, 17 has been instrumental in developing that program. 18 She does bring people in the community that are 19 victim advocates and they do talk to the inmates. 20 But in terms of actually dealing with inmate 21 problems through the use of outside groups, we don't 259 1 do that. Our approach is that we deal with that 2 in-house. That if we can't handle it at Schuylkill, 3 then we will send them out to a medical center or 4 what have you. 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'm thinking in terms 6 of training, in terms of victim assistance, 7 certainly not in terms of victim assistance or 8 anybody coming in and interfering -- 9 GLENN WALTERS: You mean training for us? 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Training for you and 11 for your staff, and also perhaps what you can bring 12 to the community as well too. 13 GLENN WALTERS: Right. We have had some 14 connections in terms of training. As I say, 15 Ms. Redrick has gone to several trainings in dealing 16 with victims. I have had -- the Bureau gives us a 17 certain amount of money every year for training, for 18 continuation education credits. And we have a 19 choice of doing programs, and there have been times 20 when I have dealt with victim issues as part of a 21 training program. So in that sense, yes, we have 260 1 had that. We don't have an active outreach in our 2 community at this point. And in the -- to be honest 3 with you, the main reason is just time. When you 4 have one or two psychologists and 1600 inmates, you 5 spend a lot of time putting out fires. So to build 6 those kind of community bridges and stuff, it takes 7 time. So I -- to answer your question, yes, we have 8 made some efforts to try to incorporate some of 9 those things, certainly get ourselves trained where 10 we can deal with these issues, but in terms of 11 making formal contacts with groups, I can't tell you 12 that we have done that. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant Kovach, in 14 your 17 years, have you heard of any sexual assault 15 by staff at Schuylkill? 16 BRUCE KOVACH: No, sir. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you heard of -- 18 whether it was corroborated or not, have you heard 19 of any inmate-on-inmate sexual assault? 20 BRUCE KOVACH: Yes, there's been 21 allegations of that. 261 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have a number in 2 mind in your tenure, 17 years? 3 BRUCE KOVACH: In 17 years, the number 4 that comes to my mind is three. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And were they 6 investigated? 7 BRUCE KOVACH: Yes, they were. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you remember the 9 outcome of those three? 10 BRUCE KOVACH: One is still open. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's the one being 12 investigated by the FBI? 13 BRUCE KOVACH: Yes, sir. And the other 14 two were non-substantiated. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The one that's still 16 open, when was that -- allegedly did it occur? 17 BRUCE KOVACH: That occurred in '06. And 18 it wasn't very concrete, as far as my investigation 19 went where I turned it over to the FBI, there was no 20 physical evidence -- 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Were there 262 1 corroborating witnesses of inmates? 2 BRUCE KOVACH: No. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So it was a swearing 4 contest between the alleged victim and alleged 5 suspect? 6 BRUCE KOVACH: Right. It was actually two 7 suspects. The two suspects' stories matched. And 8 we separated the two suspects immediately after the 9 allegation, and the subject, and I'm recalling from 10 memory here, the subject's story would change. And 11 we have never locked one story into him. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This is not the victim? 13 BRUCE KOVACH: Yeah, the victim. The 14 victim's story was ever-changing. The alleged 15 perpetrators, their story stayed pretty much on 16 point. And in the absence of physical evidence, as 17 you said, it was a swearing contest between he said, 18 she said. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is it unusual for 20 something to be still open this long after the -- 21 BRUCE KOVACH: Something of this nature, 263 1 I'm not surprised that it hasn't been picked up. We 2 need to close that out. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Needless to say it's 4 not an active investigation? 5 BRUCE KOVACH: No. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you ever -- have 7 you had any interaction with the DA or the 8 prosecuting attorney, whoever would prosecute such 9 an assault if it in fact had happened? 10 BRUCE KOVACH: We have a pretty good 11 relationship with the prosecuting attorney. 12 Unfortunately, at this point he's helping the 13 military effort and we get assigned different 14 attorneys from time to time, but our assigned 15 prosecuting attorney we have a very good 16 relationship with. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, why don't we take 18 an early break. I think we're going to continue to 19 talk to Lieutenant Kovach on the next panel. But I 20 want to thank Doctor Walters and Mr. Steffan very 21 much for your insights and coming down here. We 264 1 will recess for 15 minutes, until a couple minutes 2 after 3:00. 3 (Short break was taken.) 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Leonard, good 5 afternoon. Welcome. Ms. Leonard, could you tell us 6 what your responsibilities are at Schuylkill? 7 AMY LEONARD: My title is unit manager, 8 I'm the supervisor of two of the four housing units 9 at the FCI at Schuylkill. I supervise two 10 counselors per unit and two case managers per unit, 11 a secretary per unit. And although I'm not the 12 direct supervisor of the officers in the unit, I do 13 observe them and have input into their evaluation 14 and do communicate with their direct supervisor. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long have you 16 been at Schuylkill? 17 AMY LEONARD: Seventeen years. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You start when you were 19 five or six? 20 AMY LEONARD: Thank you very much. No, 21 21. 265 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you've been in 2 corrections how long? 3 AMY LEONARD: Seventeen years. I did do 4 an internship at a state facility during college for 5 three months. Other than that, all at Schuylkill. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You folks don't want to 7 leave this facility? 8 AMY LEONARD: It's a well-kept secret. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you had a chance 10 to read the Bureau of Statistics report on sexual 11 violence? Not that it's household reading. 12 AMY LEONARD: I did peruse it. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And in your -- 14 among the housing units, do you have anything to do 15 with protective custody or the SHU, special housing 16 unit? 17 AMY LEONARD: We do do each -- every 18 single day, the unit team member has to make rounds 19 of the special housing unit when an inmate under 20 caseload is assigned to that unit, so we do have 21 daily contact with them. As far as placing someone 266 1 in protective custody, we would not be the 2 individual who would actually order the placement in 3 protective custody. But working in the housing 4 unit, we would frequently get requests for 5 protective custody or would encounter inmates that 6 may make allegations of a number of problems that 7 would warrant their placement in protective custody, 8 and we would immediately report that to the 9 lieutenant on duty and then they would place the 10 inmate in protective custody. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who does validate the 12 need of protective custody or need for disciplinary 13 segregation? 14 AMY LEONARD: As far as validating their 15 need for protective custody, if an inmate makes an 16 allegation that he needs protective custody, if he 17 claims he needs protective custody, even if he does 18 not provide many details, much information, refuses 19 to cooperate in an investigation, we still place him 20 in protective custody. The official determination 21 is made by the lieutenant, but the procedure is that 267 1 they will be placed in protective custody until an 2 investigation can be conducted. And at that time, 3 once the investigation is concluded, we can 4 determine whether continued placement is necessary 5 or not. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the lieutenant's 7 name is? 8 AMY LEONARD: It would be any lieutenant 9 that's on shift at the time the allegations are 10 made. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So there are three 12 lieutenants that look over the SHU? 13 AMY LEONARD: There would be three shifts 14 where there would be a lieutenant. But I -- I think 15 we have closer to 11 or 12 lieutenants, because they 16 don't work seven days a week. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: They just rotate. 18 AMY LEONARD: Correct. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So there's no one 20 person we can talk to who is intimately familiar 21 with the operation of the SHU that's here today; is 268 1 that correct? You refer folks there, but you don't 2 make the decision, you don't open the door or 3 determine when they get out? 4 AMY LEONARD: Correct. But we do have, 5 and I am involved along with the executive staff, we 6 do have a weekly special housing unit meeting where 7 all of the players involved in every case of every 8 inmate in that housing unit, whether it would be for 9 administrative attention or whether it be for 10 disciplinary segregation, we review the status of 11 their case to assess when they would be getting out, 12 if they should be getting out, where the 13 investigation was at at that point in time. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And which of you would 15 be most familiar with what goes on in SHU? 16 BRUCE KOVACH: I would, sir. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I think I'm getting a 18 little confused. I thought I understood that you 19 don't necessarily make the determination in terms of 20 who goes in but that you do keep up on a daily basis 21 with who is in the SHU? 269 1 AMY LEONARD: Correct. We would never put 2 an inmate in the special housing unit and then just 3 lose touch with them. They still have day-to-day 4 needs as far as telephone lists, visiting lists, 5 requests for administrative remedy, which would be 6 our grievance procedure, just questions about 7 general well-being, any myriad of things. So we 8 still do maintain contact with them on a daily basis 9 while in the unit. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Who determines their 11 program once they are in that particular unit, in 12 terms of activities, what they can do and what they 13 can't do? 14 AMY LEONARD: There is a special housing 15 unit lieutenant, but basically everything is 16 policy-driven. There is a policy, a special housing 17 unit policy, that all institutions follow as far as 18 the operation of the special housing unit. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What does life look 20 like in the SHU in Schuylkill? What does an average 21 day look like? 270 1 AMY LEONARD: Normally when I make rounds, 2 a lot of times they are sleeping. But they do have 3 access to reading materials, books, magazines. It's 4 not just the unit staff that makes daily rounds, the 5 officers make rounds every 15 minutes -- 30 minutes, 6 I'm sorry. So there is constant staff contact. 7 There's rounds made once a week by psychology staff, 8 chaplaincy staff, educational staff. Every 9 department pretty much is required to make rounds to 10 that unit at least once a week so that we can 11 provide for whatever needs are possible. They do 12 exercise -- 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I should -- same 14 question to Lieutenant Kovach. What kind of 15 educational opportunities, what kind of recreational 16 opportunities does a SHU inmate have? 17 BRUCE KOVACH: Education as far as like a 18 GED class, that's put on hold, a formal class. They 19 can request materials, keep up with education. They 20 are afforded -- we have a small law library there. 21 Anything that's not in the special housing unit's 271 1 law library, we can request from the general law 2 library that education. They are afforded a 3 one-hour outdoor recreation period five days a week. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: By themselves in a 5 cage? 6 BRUCE KOVACH: Small groups or single, 7 depending on the inmate's needs. If we have an 8 inmate that is singled out, identified as he needs 9 to be away from all of the other inmates, which is 10 very infrequent, he is rec'd alone. Other than 11 that, there is social interaction. The rec area is 12 just fencing, so he can talk to the inmate in the 13 next rec area and so forth. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's an hour a day? 15 BRUCE KOVACH: Correct. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Have there ever, to 17 your knowledge or experience, been any complaints 18 from inmates who are in the SHU of sexual assault? 19 BRUCE KOVACH: Oh, sexual assault. I get 20 complaints every minute every day. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: But sexual assault -- 272 1 have there ever been any? 2 BRUCE KOVACH: No. Not as far as I'm 3 familiar with, no. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Any that you know of? 5 AMY LEONARD: I've never come across any. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Suffice it to say it's 7 not a desirable place to be, is that true? 8 BRUCE KOVACH: Overall, no. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So somebody is not 10 going to have an incentive to claim to have been 11 sexually assaulted just so he can get into the SHU, 12 right? 13 AMY LEONARD: It could depend upon his 14 motivations and cost-benefit analysis. If his 15 ultimate reason was because he wanted to get a 16 transfer, then that temporary placement there -- he 17 might think that that was worth it if the overall 18 end was to get a transfer. So it would depend upon 19 his motivation for possibly falsely claiming it. 20 BRUCE KOVACH: They are very good at 21 manipulating what they feel they need. If I don't 273 1 like it in that climate, I might allege that I'm in 2 debt to another inmate and he's going to assault me 3 if I don't pay up, and I can't pay up, so to speak. 4 And he will get protective custody, we will 5 investigate it, and determine whether he needs to be 6 there or if he doesn't. We have had inmates who 7 verified that their story is not credible, they do 8 not owe this debt, or the assault didn't take place, 9 or the event didn't take place and they will refuse 10 programs and come back to the general population and 11 stay there. And there's a number of inmates who do 12 that as a matter of routine to manipulate transfers. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If an inmate had in 14 fact been sexually assaulted, wouldn't he 15 consider -- have to think twice about reporting 16 that, knowing that his next destination will be the 17 SHU for some period of time during the 18 investigation, even if it's for his own protection? 19 BRUCE KOVACH: It's possible. I don't 20 want to say it's probable, though. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And that's the same 274 1 place that the suspected predator is going to be 2 located as well. Not the same cell, but they are 3 both going to the SHU; is that right? 4 BRUCE KOVACH: Right. 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Lieutenant, I would 6 like to shift a bit and ask a question about staff 7 and ratting on each other. Is there a code of 8 silence that dictates that a staff person wouldn't 9 necessarily report another staff person? 10 BRUCE KOVACH: There is, to a point. 11 That's more of a TV version that's really played 12 upon in a lot of TV programs. And I understand what 13 you're talking about. There is a -- the staff tends 14 to respect the code of honor. They value their 15 integrity very highly, in general. And we do have a 16 lot of self-reporting in a lot of aspects, not 17 just -- in general, not with sexual misconduct 18 specifically, and we also have staff that come up 19 and say, "this staff member was out of line, he, 20 she, did this and I don't feel comfortable keeping 21 that a secret or dealing with that on my own." And 275 1 they can bring it to any supervisor's attention, and 2 it would go up to the warden's attention and be -- 3 decisions made on how to deal with it, whether it 4 was a code of conduct or not. 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: In your 17 years of 6 experience, how frequently have you seen something 7 of this nature occur? 8 BRUCE KOVACH: Generally speaking, let's 9 say monthly. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Monthly. 11 BRUCE KOVACH: Not all huge issues. 12 Sometimes they are trivial. Sometimes as a 13 supervisor, a staff member will come to me, ask me 14 my opinion on how to deal with something that they 15 have seen. And I would look into it. And I think 16 Schuylkill is fortunate to have a lot of these staff 17 members. 18 HARLEY LAPPIN: Steve, may I? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sure, Mr. Director. 20 HARLEY LAPPIN: I appreciate that, Mr. 21 Chairman. I think this is a very important issue. 276 1 I think, at the end of the day, we want to try to 2 get the issues on the table. I think your question 3 is a good one, and I recently dealt with this issue 4 in the Bureau of Prisons. As good as we may think 5 we are, whether it's Federal, state and local, in 6 many cases there is an issue of code of silence, and 7 so much so that here recently we have addressed it 8 publicly. I'll send you a message I sent out to 9 staff addressing this issue, because the worst thing 10 we can do is ignore it, assume it doesn't occur, 11 when in fact it does occur, hopefully infrequently, 12 as the Lieutenant indicated. But certainly our 13 investigations reveal, on occasion, staff were 14 aware, saw something, read something, heard 15 something that should have been reported but, for 16 whatever reason, was not. That's unacceptable. 17 It's my opinion, the leadership of the Bureau, we 18 shouldn't stand by and stick our head in the sand 19 and assume that's not the case. So we want to hit 20 it front -- head-on. So we've acknowledged that, we 21 have sent a message out to staff. I've asked, as I 277 1 visit institutions, as I have executive staff visit 2 institutions, as we address the wardens and set 3 expectations for them, we want them to deal with 4 this issue. We want to set the expectation that 5 it's unacceptable. And you all locally, you have to 6 figure out how an employee can safely convey 7 information to the leadership without putting a big 8 target on their head that they have informed, as 9 they should, a violation or a potential violation of 10 code of conduct. So I didn't mean to intervene and 11 break protocol, but I think it's an important issue. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You can intervene any 13 time you want. 14 HARLEY LAPPIN: These are certain things 15 that are a challenge for us to deal with, no 16 different than employees who decide to misbehave. 17 If we sit back and we ignore them as if it doesn't 18 happen, I think that's wrong. Again, that kind of 19 goes where you're taking it, and the Lieutenant did 20 a great job on that. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I appreciate your 278 1 honesty and openness on that issue. Thank you. 2 HARLEY LAPPIN: You're welcome. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant, you 4 mentioned before the break that, I think it was you, 5 that the DA, the prosecuting attorney, is in-service 6 and therefore you have a new DA or a series of DAs. 7 BRUCE KOVACH: Yeah, series of whoever is 8 available. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how does that 10 affect the -- 11 BRUCE KOVACH: Virtually none. I'm sure 12 you understand, once you create this relationship, 13 I'm very comfortable talking to Mr. Hinckley, who 14 took all of the cases out of the Scranton office. 15 And he was very approachable, he was very friendly, 16 he fit in personally. The other DA's not a problem, 17 but it's -- make that phone call and, okay, now I 18 know who I'm talking to, whereas prior to his 19 service it was just part -- more part of the team 20 feeling of, hey, Todd, I'm looking at this, what do 21 you think? And I can still do that but not -- 279 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What occasion do you 2 have to talk with any of these DAs if you never have 3 any charges? 4 BRUCE KOVACH: Well, we have 5 inmate-on-inmate assaults. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Fights, not sexual 7 assaults? 8 BRUCE KOVACH: Not sexual assaults. 9 Physical assaults. We have -- we refer all inmates 10 who have been caught with weapons. We speak to them 11 and attempt to prosecute all drug introductions and 12 possessions. Those type incidents. It's just not 13 staff-on-inmate or inmate-on-staff, but it's a wide 14 variety of law enforcement agencies. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I would like to ask a 16 question on training on sexual assault. What has 17 your specific training been, associated with sexual 18 assault? 19 BRUCE KOVACH: When I went to training in 20 Aurora for the Bureau as a lieutenant. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In Colorado. 280 1 BRUCE KOVACH: In Colorado, yes. We were 2 taught to address the needs of the victim. Yes, 3 they are a victim first, and an inmate second at 4 this point. That was reinforced when I went to the 5 SIS training, again in Aurora, Colorado. And on the 6 institutional level -- 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: SIS? 8 BRUCE KOVACH: Special investigative 9 section. And again at the institutional level, 10 annually at our annual training sessions, which we 11 just concluded here last month. Doctor Walters and 12 the other staff psychologists have provided training 13 over the years on the subject when there's a change 14 in -- policy change or it comes up -- or a concern 15 comes up. It's addressed to the lieutenants 16 specifically and staff in general on the issue on 17 how to not only deal with the criminal aspect, but 18 with the emotional aspect that the victim might have 19 to deal with. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Ms. Leonard, do you 21 have any specific training in the needs, the 281 1 specific needs, of sexual assault victims? 2 AMY LEONARD: No. My training consists of 3 pretty much what he was saying, every single year we 4 have annual refresher training. It's covered -- and 5 it's covered mainly from psychologists that are 6 there because they are most involved with the 7 program. But it is also brought up during another 8 class on the standards of employee conduct, and 9 Lieutenant Kovach touches on it in some of his SIS 10 classes. But that was my personal training. But I 11 know now all new employees -- we have an institution 12 familiarization class that new employees go through 13 at the institution prior to even going to the 14 Federal law enforcement training center, where they 15 receive further training. But they also have a 16 class in that prior to really ever coming into 17 contact with the inmates. That's not something I 18 went through, but I know that's something they have 19 in place now. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Leonard, let me ask 21 you some questions, if I may, about the residential 282 1 units. Is soft pornography allowed? 2 AMY LEONARD: No. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about -- 4 AMY LEONARD: As far as pornography, I 5 mean, they have their Maxim magazines that they can 6 get in the mail, but no other pornography. 7 Everybody would be clothed in the photos. I mean, 8 it would be a standard magazine you could buy at the 9 newsstand. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what about, what's 11 on the TVs? 12 AMY LEONARD: There is a listing of 13 channels, but they are just basic television 14 stations, news stations, Discovery, geography. 15 Those kind of stations. There's nothing that would 16 have any questionable content. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: To your knowledge, is 18 that system-wide with the Bureau or is it just 19 Schuylkill? 20 AMY LEONARD: I believe it's system-wide. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What is your opinion of 283 1 the Prison Rape Elimination Act and whether it's 2 much ado about nothing, there isn't much assault 3 going on, you know, folks haven't seen anything in 4 17 years? Is this a far stretch from reality or 5 what? 6 AMY LEONARD: Obviously, the Prison Rape 7 Elimination Act is necessary because there have been 8 reported cases and substantiated cases. And I'm of 9 the opinion that probably one case is one too many. 10 I don't have any comparison, being at Schuylkill for 11 my entire career. I believe that it's always good 12 to have laws in place and policies in place to 13 continue to our good record, but I believe, as far 14 as our institution goes, our culture and our staff 15 would kind of hold those values anyway and would 16 protect that anyway. But for other institutions 17 that may not have the same culture and history we 18 do, of course it's necessary. Like I said, to the 19 degree of the problem out there, I don't have any 20 personal knowledge of it. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Tell us again your 284 1 population. 2 AMY LEONARD: We're a medium-level 3 facility. We also have a minimum-level satellite 4 camp. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sixteen hundred; is 6 that right? 7 AMY LEONARD: There's 300 -- approximately 8 300 at the camp and approximately 1300 inside. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What do you consider 10 sexual misconduct? If you -- given the training 11 that you described at the A.R.T.s and -- you went to 12 Aurora as well? 13 AMY LEONARD: I have been to training in 14 Aurora, but not specifically for PREA or sexual 15 abuse prevention. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's your 17 understanding of what constitutes sexual misconduct 18 by a staff member? 19 AMY LEONARD: It could be anything as -- 20 and I don't want to classify it as minor, but as 21 minor as sexual comments toward an inmate, to sexual 285 1 intimidation, to demanding sexual favors, to even -- 2 even if it's consensual, staff relationships with 3 inmates are inappropriate and not tolerated and 4 illegal, because they are considered wards of -- in 5 our custody and in our care. So any kind of sexual 6 conduct would be considered sexual abuse. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about 8 inmate-on-inmate, what about consensual activities 9 between inmates? Is that a problem? 10 AMY LEONARD: We do not knowingly permit 11 sexual contact between inmates, even if it's 12 consensual. If we encounter in the middle of that 13 for some reason, we would immediately put a stop to 14 it and they would suffer disciplinary action. But, 15 obviously, we don't always encounter it. I'm sure 16 it does happen, consensual, but it's still 17 prohibited, we don't allow it. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant, what are 19 the penalties that an inmate faces if he falsely 20 reports sexual assault? 21 BRUCE KOVACH: There's provisions under 286 1 the disciplinary process. Lying to staff is an 2 infractional disciplinary process. He would be 3 written a report for that. At a minimum, 4 whatever -- however it progressed might be a 5 violation of other rules. And he would receive a 6 write-up. We call them an incident report. And 7 that goes through an entire disciplinary process. 8 If I would write an incident report on an inmate, 9 another lieutenant would go get that inmate's 10 statement, investigate the facts as I stated them. 11 He would refer them to their unit team, which would 12 come to Amy, and he would continue through the 13 disciplinary process. They are looking at loss of 14 privilege, segregation time, disciplinary 15 segregation, loss of good time, and there is a 16 variety of sanctions that can be imposed. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would it be fair to say 18 that, given the chances are pretty good that a claim 19 is not going to be believed and that the penalty of 20 not being believed is going to be the discipline you 21 just described, do you think that has a chilling 287 1 effect on legitimate claims, grievances -- claims 2 and so on? 3 BRUCE KOVACH: I think it all depends on 4 the individual making a claim. There is some 5 stories or versions of incidents that occur that if 6 we were to put them in a book they would have to be 7 listed as fiction, because they wouldn't be 8 believable to somebody outside of what we do. There 9 is a lot of bad decisions made by inmates. If they 10 see that it's a means to their end, no matter how 11 slan, they suffer consequences, so it is a 12 deterrent. But, again, it's back to the individual 13 making the claim. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Did I understand your 15 earlier testimony that you've never heard a claim 16 that you believed at Schuylkill with respect to 17 sexual misconduct, touching, intimate pat-downs -- 18 BRUCE KOVACH: Staff-on-inmate, we have 19 not proven any allegation that -- 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: My question is, did you 21 ever believe that it was true? Whether it was 288 1 proven or not, you were of the opinion that, more 2 likely than not, it probably did happen? 3 BRUCE KOVACH: I try to approach each 4 allegation that way and work backwards from "it did 5 happen" to "did it really happen." Benefit of the 6 doubt is always there. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Always with whom? 8 BRUCE KOVACH: It's always with the 9 individual making the allegation, initially, and 10 then we work from there. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The ultimate answer to 12 my question was, no, you've never -- you've never 13 concluded personally that a sexual assault or sexual 14 misconduct by a staff on inmate has ever occurred in 15 Schuylkill? 16 BRUCE KOVACH: Not in my determination. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Curiosity. Have you 18 had any homicides? 19 BRUCE KOVACH: No, ma'am. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Ever? 21 BRUCE KOVACH: No, ma'am. 289 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Director Lappin, my 2 question is about homicides within the total system. 3 Any numbers? 4 HARLEY LAPPIN: Yes, ma'am. One moment, 5 please. I have to get my glasses out. Homicides. 6 So far this year, fiscal year 2008, we have had 7 seven homicides Bureau-wide. In fiscal year '07, we 8 had 12. Fiscal year '06, we had four. In fiscal 9 year '05, we had 12. In '04, four. In '03, three. 10 In '02, three. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What about suicides? 12 HARLEY LAPPIN: Suicides. So far in '08, 13 we have had 14. In '07, 12. '06, 13. '05, 13. 14 '04, nine. '03, 11. '02, 16. Our rate is about 15 eight or nine per 100,000. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Can you draw any 17 emphasis -- or can you draw any inferences from 18 those numbers on suicides? 19 HARLEY LAPPIN: I'm not sure, inferences 20 in what manner? 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: In terms of why -- 290 1 HARLEY LAPPIN: I'm sure -- on each of 2 those suicides we do an aftermath. And on many of 3 those, we can draw some conclusions based on the 4 evidence we collected, from their phone calls, from 5 letters, from comments in the aftermath. So I'm 6 sure if you looked at the individuals, there would 7 be some that we might be able to come to a 8 conclusion of what was going on through the person's 9 mind. I can't say in the case of every one of them. 10 There is someone here that could probably answer 11 that if you want to ask him the question. Doctor 12 Baxter, who is the chief of psychology for the 13 Bureau of Prisons, looks at all of those suicides 14 and would be better able to respond specifically to 15 that than I can. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I would be interested 17 in what you have to say, sir. 18 HARLEY LAPPIN: Not going to put him on 19 the spot. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No. But I am going to 21 put him under oath. Raise your right hand, please. 291 1 Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony 2 you're about to give today is the truth, the whole 3 truth, and nothing but the truth? What's your name, 4 for the record? 5 JOHN BAXTER: John Baxter. I'm the 6 psychologist service administrator for the Federal 7 Bureau of Prisons. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'm interested, 9 certainly interested in the numbers of homicides 10 that occur across the board in all of the prisons, 11 and I'm certainly interested in suicides as well. I 12 asked the question earlier on about the greatest 13 fear -- or what the fears might be among inmates in 14 terms of their confinement within the prison gates. 15 So could you talk a little bit about the suicides 16 and homicides from your vantage point? 17 JOHN BAXTER: Homicides I really cannot 18 address. I've not done any formal study of 19 homicides during my career. Suicides are something 20 that we, by policy, will do a reconstruction each 21 time they occur, so I can better address that issue. 292 1 I have experience, both in my current role reviewing 2 all the suicide reconstructions that come across the 3 agency, as well as in a previous role as a regional 4 psychology administrator actually having done a 5 number of reconstructions myself. And so I have 6 reviewed literally dozens and dozens of cases of 7 suicide over several years. There are some general 8 trends that emerge that we try to pay attention to 9 and we train our staff to pay attention to, things 10 such as persons who have been recently confined who 11 are facing very long sentences. In some cases, we 12 have people who are in fear for their own safety. 13 We have had some individuals commit suicide who 14 were, for various reasons, seeking protective 15 custody status, or who are in special housing and 16 protective custody status. We have inmates who may 17 have committed suicide that seems to be related in 18 some way to history of serious mental illness. And 19 so there are really a host of reasons. We have some 20 inmates who have committed suicide, and we monitor 21 trend information, some inmates who have committed 293 1 suicide who have a history of preying upon others, 2 and particularly those who have been convicted of 3 child molestation. We've seen a slight upward trend 4 in suicide in that population. What I would say 5 generally, looking at our numbers over time, 6 typically given the numbers of individuals that we 7 confine, and comparing inmate suicides in our system 8 versus suicides in the general population and 9 society, our suicide rate for the last several years 10 has been about half what it could be for the group 11 that we confine. So we're doing a very good job of 12 monitoring inmates that may be at risk for suicide, 13 intervening if we find any number of different 14 indicators that the person may be a greater risk of 15 suicide. Our staff are trained to report those 16 issues to the institution psychologist, who does an 17 assessment. We can then take any different number 18 of actions, including suicide watch, medication, 19 other kinds of interventions as appropriate. Our 20 staff are trained, we monitor trends over time, and 21 we communicate those as part of our annual training 294 1 to all staff to make sure we continue to try to keep 2 that rate as low as possible. 3 HARLEY LAPPIN: As far as homicide, we 4 have done a similar assessment of the homicides, 5 like Doctor Baxter. But not unlike state or local 6 organizations, you're going to find, a lot of times 7 disrespect issues between an inmate or two that 8 results in a homicide or some gang-related business 9 that was ongoing. Again, we can provide you kind of 10 an overview of the homicides that have occurred and 11 what we have determined could have been an aggregate 12 matter. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Doctor Baxter, could I 14 ask you a couple of questions as long as you're 15 here? The profile of a sexual predator in prison 16 and a profile of a victim. Who are the most 17 vulnerable people and who are the most predatory? 18 JOHN BAXTER: Are you asking about 19 predatory toward other inmates or staff? 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Start with 21 inmate-on-inmate. 295 1 JOHN BAXTER: I think those who are at 2 greater risk upon preying on others are, first and 3 foremost, typically people who have a history of 4 violence in their background. Those who prey on 5 others typically have a pattern of disregarding the 6 rights of other individuals. They sometimes will 7 study the individuals they expect to target for 8 sexual favor or assault, and then they will groom 9 that individual over time and try to establish a 10 relationship where the target of their advance is 11 perhaps -- owes them something or feels that they 12 owe them something. And so there's a -- I don't 13 have as clear a pattern that I could offer you in 14 terms of that. I really have nothing to add other 15 than what Doctor Walters' testimony was earlier in 16 terms of adding to the profile that he presented. 17 Certainly, inmates who -- are sophisticated in terms 18 of understanding the interpersonal issues and the 19 ways that they may present themselves in a prison to 20 maintain their own personal safety. Inmates who 21 either grant favors or take favors from other 296 1 inmates may be at greater risk, perhaps further 2 downstream, of being targeted for some type of 3 sexual favor or they're targeted for something that 4 they may have taken -- they thought was a gift but 5 there's strings attached. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Doctor, is there -- 7 can you address the notion that frequently certain 8 types of individuals gravitate toward law 9 enforcement positions, and that they may have some 10 issues of their own associated with power and 11 control? Can you address, just a notion? 12 JOHN BAXTER: I've not done any study of 13 that, and I know that that is perhaps one of the 14 stereotypes that may be presented in some of the 15 entertainment media. Frankly, I think the people 16 that I work with are very dedicated professionals 17 and I don't see that type of power orientation as 18 any type of a mainstream influence in what brought 19 them to decide to be civil servants and serve 20 society in the way they do. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Seen any relationship 297 1 to staff who may have difficulty or may have had 2 charges of domestic violence in their personal 3 lives? 4 JOHN BAXTER: Our policy is very strict, 5 and others here can comment on domestic violence, 6 but we cannot employ someone as a Federal law 7 enforcement officer, and all of us are considered 8 Federal law enforcement officers, if they have a 9 confirmed charge of domestic violence. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: If that becomes known 11 during the course of their employment, what happens? 12 HARLEY LAPPIN: Actually, it has happened. 13 A few years ago it was actually added as a criteria, 14 and so as background investigations occurred on a 15 five-year basis -- on a five-year basis, we learned 16 of convictions for this type of behavior and we 17 would then pursue termination procedures. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Very good. 19 HARLEY LAPPIN: Again, not all of them 20 result in that because through the course of the -- 21 of course, the employees have rights, and sometimes 298 1 through a third party people are reinstated, but in 2 many cases terminations occur. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant, do you have 4 anything to do with the custodial classification of 5 any -- of new inmates? 6 BRUCE KOVACH: We -- yes, the SIS office 7 would consist of myself and technicians -- do go 8 through receiving/discharge area when buses arrive. 9 But we do look for standouts of gang activity, 10 anybody that's had problems at other institutions. 11 And we don't really play a part in a classification. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Where is that done? 13 Who does that? 14 BRUCE KOVACH: Classification? 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. 16 BRUCE KOVACH: It comes through receiving 17 and discharge, and the unit team deals with that. 18 We look for specific instances, for flags and so 19 forth, and interview, like I said, gang members. 20 Somebody that maybe Ms. Leonard or somebody from her 21 department would see with tattoos that look like 299 1 they could be gang-related, and we'll often 2 photograph those and evaluate those, but the actual 3 classification is done more by the team. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Leonard, could you 5 talk to us about what R&D -- how it classifies, what 6 kind of factors? We talked generally about it, but 7 what specifically -- 8 AMY LEONARD: The inmates are already 9 pre-classified before they arrive at our institution 10 by our community corrections staff. They have 11 access to the inmates, present their report. If 12 they're a brand new -- if they're a transfer from 13 another institution, the staff from that institution 14 would have already classified them. So we have a 15 pretty good idea of what general type of inmate they 16 are or what special needs they might have, prior to 17 them even arriving. But as an extra step, when they 18 arrive, a counselor or a case manager or myself, 19 unit manager, would conduct what we call the intake 20 screening process and social interview, where we 21 would again go through that inmate's central file, 300 1 if one were already established, if he transferred 2 from another facility, or go through his presentence 3 report, judgment commitment order from the court, 4 any other information that might be available. And, 5 again, determine -- make sure that that general 6 classification, that preliminary classification, is 7 in fact correct. We also do a social survey, it's 8 an intake screening questionnaire we ask the inmate. 9 We specifically ask them if they have any concerns 10 releasing to general population. Maybe there's some 11 sort of personal conflict with another inmate that 12 they know is there from the street that we might not 13 know about, might not be related to their offense, 14 or if they have any gang affiliations that we might 15 not know about. If they claim that. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you ask specifically 17 about sexual assault? Sexual orientation? 18 AMY LEONARD: Yes, we do. We do not ask 19 sexual orientation. We do ask each inmate two 20 questions related -- the first question is, have you 21 ever been sexually assaulted? And then they have 301 1 the opportunity at that point to reveal things that 2 could have happened at other institutions, could 3 have happened in transit, or could have happened 4 from childhood. If they answer affirmatively to 5 that question, we would forward that information to 6 Doctor Walters or forward it to Doctor Terry Backer 7 and her staff so that they can do proper follow-up. 8 And then we also ask them, have you recently been 9 sexually assaulted? So even if during the first 10 question, if they decide to disclose childhood 11 events, we can also narrow it down to see if there's 12 anything further. One of the other questions, it's 13 not a question that we ask the inmate because we 14 don't expect the inmate to always self-disclose it, 15 but there is a space on the questionnaire where we 16 document that we have reviewed his file thoroughly 17 and we note any sexually aggressive behavior -- 18 aggressive behavior that that inmate might have 19 displayed in the past which would probably make him 20 more likely to display sexually aggressive behavior 21 in the future. We also flag that and we also refer 302 1 that to our SIS lieutenant, the psychologist, so 2 they can do proper follow-up and proper monitoring 3 as far as that. 4 HARLEY LAPPIN: Steve, if I can. Some of 5 those folks that are flagged, that are such a 6 concern, the lieutenant will actually create a 7 posted picture card file, and that file will go in 8 the lieutenant's office. The warden signs off, 9 saying, because of this behavior, because of this 10 background, we want staff to be more aware of this 11 individual's background tendency, so on and so 12 forth. The staff, I believe, are required to review 13 the posted picture file. How often? 14 BRUCE KOVACH: Correctional staff is 15 monthly. 16 HARLEY LAPPIN: Every month. So this file 17 would be in the lieutenant's office, and every month 18 staff are expected to review that file so they will 19 see the high-profile inmates within that facility. 20 The other checks and balances, correct me if I'm 21 wrong, Ms. Leonard, even before the inmate arrives, 303 1 the institution receives the custody and 2 classification form on the inmate. Within a certain 3 amount of time, they have to review that paperwork 4 to make sure there were no errors in the 5 preceding -- in the work preceding the receipt of 6 that information to the institution. So she 7 mentioned the community corrections folks. 8 Actually, now it's all done in one location, which 9 is in Grand Prairie, Texas. So every new 10 commitment, all their information goes to one 11 location, where there are staff who are trained on 12 how to do the custody classification form. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let me ask you about 14 that, Director. How does the classification differ 15 for female inmates? 16 HARLEY LAPPIN: I think it's -- the same 17 form, correct me if I'm wrong. The same factors. 18 But certainly could be some variation in the 19 interview techniques, questions and so forth. But 20 they are the same factors for determining security 21 and custody for females as males, although there are 304 1 really only two security levels for females, minimum 2 and everybody else, because we primarily find just a 3 handful of offenders who fall under the high 4 category. So when you look at the female population 5 of the Bureau, which is about 14,000 offenders, 6 probably 40 fall under what's considered the high 7 category of behavior -- 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Forty out of 14,000. 9 HARLEY LAPPIN: Correct. The remainder 10 fall into lows. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Be like Squeaky -- 12 HARLEY LAPPIN: There's actually at least 13 one offender on death row that would fall into that 14 category. But similar classification, maybe a 15 little different approach in the interview 16 discussion with the offender. Prior to them 17 arriving, the R&D staff look at the work that has 18 been done. If they identify a mistake, they go back 19 to the designating -- or the folks that designated 20 that individual and say, I think there's an error in 21 here. If they agree, they might change the 305 1 classification and the designation of that offender 2 to another facility, if in fact there was an error 3 made. So a number of checks and balances in that 4 process before it even gets to the unit staff who 5 sit down, in many cases for the first time, and 6 actually interview the offender and draw on that 7 expertise and their assessment of that person as an 8 individual as to the consistency of what the form 9 says and what they actually see and observe and hear 10 from the offender. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How does that custodial 12 assessment differ from, or is it supplemented in 13 regards to, housing? What additional information, 14 Ms. Leonard, are you going to want to know before 15 you make a housing assignment, a cellmate 16 assignment? 17 AMY LEONARD: As far as housing unit 18 assignments go, there is also part of that form 19 where it would indicate whether there is any 20 pre-known psychological -- severe mental health or 21 psychological problems. So, again, we would refer 306 1 that to Doctor Walters and his staff, and he would 2 make a determination based on that individual case 3 what would be the most appropriate housing 4 assignment for that inmate. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who is making that 6 assessment of severe mental health and 7 psychological? 8 AMY LEONARD: Again, it would be from past 9 records, from the presentence report. For a new 10 inmate, it would have been entered by staff at Grand 11 Prairie, or if it were a transfer, from psychology 12 staff at the prior institution. Same thing for 13 medical needs. If they have any special medical 14 needs that they might -- and a lot of times it's 15 just the personal interaction with the inmate, what 16 kind of fit would be best. When you're there for so 17 long, you get to know all the units and you get to 18 know where people might best adjust. We do look at 19 demographics. We try not to let any one group of 20 inmates, whether it be older inmates, young inmates, 21 white inmates, black inmates, whether it be 307 1 affiliations with certain gangs -- we try to balance 2 all that out and spread it among the units so that 3 we don't have any one group taking over an area. 4 And not only do we do that with housing assignments, 5 we do that with work assignments also. We monitor 6 that. And if we see any one group trying to 7 gravitate towards one area, we will redistribute. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are you involved in the 9 work assignments? 10 AMY LEONARD: Yes, I am. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I did have a question 12 relative to racial issues. And I guess the first 13 part would be when an inmate -- do inmates typically 14 abuse inmates of the same racial -- is it, for 15 instance, white-on-white, black-on-black? 16 AMY LEONARD: I wouldn't know that because 17 we haven't really had any cases. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Then I must go through 19 the Director in terms of general information across 20 the board that you may have related to some -- to 21 certain racial issues. 308 1 HARLEY LAPPIN: It varies. There is 2 certainly assaults that occur amongst the race, I 3 guess. It varies from location to location, 4 incident to incident. I'll go back to our research 5 folks to see if we have specific characteristics of 6 the assaults. I'm not sure we go down that far. 7 Certainly in my experience as a warden and associate 8 warden in institutions, that violence certainly 9 occurs against members of the same race, members of 10 the same gang. In fact, if you go back, take a look 11 at, the look at these homicides, oftentimes it's 12 within a gang, oftentimes it's within the same race. 13 Sometimes it's not. Oftenitems it's a disrespect 14 issue, can be somebody from a different gang or 15 different race that has kind of resulted in that 16 type of behavior and conduct. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: But frequently they 18 are racially? 19 HARLEY LAPPIN: Frequently they are from 20 the same race or same geographic, own common 21 denominator. 309 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: In terms of gangs, 2 various groups, various cultures within cultures, do 3 these folks gravitate together in terms of where 4 they are housed? Would we have like the Hispanic 5 block? 6 HARLEY LAPPIN: As Ms. Leonard mentioned, 7 given the fact they are responsible for assigning 8 the housing, the bed that we assign that inmate, 9 they can monitor that unit-by-unit basis. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And you try as best 11 you can -- 12 HARLEY LAPPIN: To balance that 13 institution. We've taken the same approach 14 Bureau-wide. As the designators, they designate 15 people -- they are monitoring that as well, what 16 percentage of the population is African-American, 17 Hispanic, white, so on and so forth, to try to have 18 institutions that are balanced, as well as the 19 numbers of known gang members, or STGs, that inmates 20 would have certain assignments to try and do our 21 best to balance that population out. It's not easy. 310 1 There are a lot of gang members, a lot of inmates 2 with special assignments that make it a challenge. 3 We continue to try to improve on that system. And 4 then it's complicated because you have a number of 5 offenders who are separated from other inmates. I 6 don't know exactly what percentage today, I used to 7 know but I've forgotten, but inmates separated from 8 somebody else in the system, either because they 9 testified for or against someone, possibly got into 10 an altercation in an institution, could have been 11 assaulted in some way, and therefore we don't want 12 them housed in the same facility. So it does make 13 it a bit complicated to try to get the folks in the 14 right assignments. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Leonard, who has 16 the authority at Schuylkill to change a housing 17 assignment, change cellmates? 18 AMY LEONARD: Within the unit, the 19 counselor in the unit makes all decisions -- almost 20 all decisions for housing assignments. If there 21 would be a problem, if an inmate comes to me with a 311 1 complaint, as their counselor supervisor, I could 2 certainly intervene. But generally the counselor 3 monitors the housing assignments within the unit. 4 If, for some reason, the inmate would have a request 5 to move from one housing unit to another housing 6 unit, that decision would be made by the unit 7 manager then. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yourself. 9 AMY LEONARD: Yes. Or if it was between 10 my unit, I would make that decision myself. If it 11 was from my unit to the other unit manager, we would 12 get together and make that decision. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What factors would be 14 acceptable for granting such a request? 15 AMY LEONARD: Again, generally it would 16 really have to be a very, very good reason, because 17 we want to keep control of the housing assignments, 18 not the inmates. Typically, if an inmate is 19 requesting to move from one unit to another, there's 20 normally some sort of reason behind it. Maybe he 21 wants to get with another buddy from the street, 312 1 wants to live with him and they want to conduct some 2 inappropriate activity. Again, maybe all one gang 3 is trying to locate themselves in one area. I've 4 seen them do it because they are in a softball 5 tournament and he's a softball player and they need 6 a good shortstop. There's a variety of reasons. 7 But, again, it would have to be something really 8 serious or legitimate. Maybe some sort of conflict, 9 not enough of a conflict that we would separate the 10 inmates, but just that it might be better if they 11 stay away from each other, get out of the same unit, 12 something like that. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would one of the good 14 reasons be that the individual expressed concern for 15 their safety from a sexual predator? 16 AMY LEONARD: Absolutely. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you ever heard of 18 that? 19 AMY LEONARD: I have never had anybody 20 come to me and say they were concerned for their 21 safety from a sexual predator. But if that were the 313 1 case, if somebody were to come to me, most likely 2 that housing unit assignment change would be to the 3 special housing unit because they have made 4 allegations of sexual victimization and we want to 5 make sure we investigate it fully. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So their options are, 7 keep on putting up with it or go to the SHU? 8 AMY LEONARD: If I were an inmate -- I see 9 what you're saying, but I would not take my options 10 as that. I would say, if I was seriously being 11 victimized, yes, I would go to the special housing 12 unit. But it's not punitive, it's not torture, it's 13 not -- and the alternative would be to be a victim. 14 I would much rather make sure that -- and I know the 15 staff at Schuylkill would take my allegations 16 seriously and rather have them investigate it. And 17 if my allegations were indeed true, take appropriate 18 action that way rather than -- 19 HARLEY LAPPIN: At that point, it's 20 completely taken out of their responsibility. If 21 they are alleging they have been assaulted or fear 314 1 they're going to be assaulted, moving them to 2 another housing unit isn't going to solve the 3 problem because there's too many opportunities for 4 those inmates to connect, either on a recreation 5 yard, in an education area, in food service. And 6 number one is their safety. Number one. And if 7 it's determined -- again, if someone made 8 allegations to me, I'm going to assume it's true 9 until it's proven otherwise. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do folks in the SHU 11 have visitation rights? 12 AMY LEONARD: Yes. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The same as GP? 14 AMY LEONARD: They have visitation rights 15 unless their privileges were taken for a punitive 16 measure, for a disciplinary measure. But they do -- 17 they can visit -- same visiting -- I believe it's -- 18 HARLEY LAPPIN: There are two categories 19 of segregation, disciplinary segregation and then 20 there's ad seg. So administrative segregation, you 21 have many of the same privileges that others do, 315 1 other than movement. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Or education. 3 HARLEY LAPPIN: We actually do do some 4 education in some ways. It's limited, without a 5 doubt. Granted, in their eyes they do see it as 6 punitive. But the bottom line is their safety. And 7 we provide as many of those services we can possibly 8 provide during that time they are in there. It is 9 very limited. They will have visiting privileges, 10 phone privileges, although limited, like other 11 offenders. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I want to thank you all 13 very much for your time. We have Doctor Baxter, 14 thanks for your ad lib testimony. And we're now 15 going to hear from the warden at Schuylkill. Warden 16 Sniezek, if you wouldn't mind coming to join us. 17 Warden Sniezek, would you mind raising your right 18 hand? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony 19 you're about to give will be the truth, the whole 20 truth, and nothing but the truth? 21 TOM SNIEZEK: I do. 316 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And your full name, 2 sir. 3 TOM SNIEZEK: Thomas R. Sniezek. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you're the warden 5 at Schuylkill? 6 TOM SNIEZEK: That's what they tell you. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's what they tell 8 you. That's what they pay you for? 9 TOM SNIEZEK: Yes, sir. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long have you 11 been warden? 12 TOM SNIEZEK: Warden at that facility, 13 approximately one year at that facility. Total time 14 with the Bureau, 31 years after graduate school, 15 starting at Leavenworth. And prior to coming to 16 Schuylkill, I was warden in Elkton, Ohio for almost 17 three years. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Were you warden at 19 Schuylkill when your BJS survey was administered? 20 TOM SNIEZEK: Yes, I was. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Now, what was Ronnie 317 1 Holtz's term at Schuylkill, when did he -- 2 TOM SNIEZEK: Believe it or not, I have a 3 knack for knowing these little details. I believe 4 Ronnie started there August 8, 2004. I'll bet you 5 $100 on that. Stayed there until April 28 of last 6 year, until he got transferred. The reason I can 7 say that, sir, I started at Elkton, Ohio August 8, 8 2004, which is the same day he started at 9 Schuylkill. That's the only reason I know it. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And why did he only 11 last eight months at Schuylkill? Nobody else seems 12 to leave Schuylkill. He became warden in August of 13 '04 to the end of April of '05? 14 TOM SNIEZEK: No, no. April '07. My 15 apologies if I said '05. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. We haven't 17 talked to anybody that's been at Schuylkill less 18 than 16 years. 19 TOM SNIEZEK: See, some of us are not as 20 good as these staff. That's what it comes down to. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What are you doing 318 1 about the blind spots at Schuylkill? 2 TOM SNIEZEK: I heard you ask that to 3 several people. First off, no system is perfect, no 4 institution is perfect. In fact, I can even relate, 5 and this may be a little bit off the beaten path. 6 Five years ago this Friday, I was assaulted at USP 7 Lewisburg in front of a number of staff less than 8 15 feet away. The dining unit at Lewisburg seats 9 480 inmates, and one time an inmate tried to cut my 10 throat. And I was talking to the psychologist and 11 the business manager. Now, this is on tape. You 12 can watch it. He did it in 1.2 seconds. Lewisburg 13 is still a very safe facility. Because after I went 14 and got sewed up, I came back to the institution. 15 Now, I can walk away -- at that time, I can leave 16 with 31 years, I already had 26 in, I could have 17 retired, I could have left. But the agency is a 18 great agency. And number two, that's a very safe 19 place to work and I would go back there in a 20 heartbeat no different than I did on that day. 21 People get killed in automobiles every day, but 319 1 nobody quits driving. It's still a safe way to go. 2 So you need to understand that in any element, 3 whether in corrections, whether in the private 4 sector, whether in the community, things happen. It 5 doesn't make it that the system is broke. So going 6 back to your question about blind spots, there are 7 blind spots everywhere, absolutely. But as 8 Lieutenant Kovach said, with the 130-something 9 cameras we have, is it perfect? Absolutely not. 10 But due to the efforts of staff getting out -- 11 Ms. Leonard is on the unit, she works the late -- we 12 have usually unit staff from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., 13 Monday through Friday. We have staff on weekends. 14 We're open 24/7. Now -- 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Not open in the literal 16 sense. 17 TOM SNIEZEK: Open in the sense if you 18 call somebody will answer the phone. How does that 19 sound with that? But even then the place runs 20 different. Myself, I go in at different times. The 21 place runs different on evenings, et cetera. Now, 320 1 my situation is different, I'm older, my kids are 2 grown, the whole deal, but I go in on the weekends. 3 A lot of other staff do the same thing. I'm not the 4 only one. But as a rule I still shake-down inmates, 5 I still strip-search inmates. We're all 6 correctional workers first. You should never forget 7 that premise. So going to your thing about blind 8 spots, yes, they are. Do we have the money to put 9 in every place? Absolutely not. That's why it's 10 imperative you get out of your office, you make 11 rounds, you walk around here. You have to be 12 accessible. These people cannot reach up to you, 13 you have to reach down to them, and the only way to 14 do it is getting out and about. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you tell new inmates 16 where the blind spots are and warn them about it? 17 TOM SNIEZEK: No, absolutely not. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Why not? 19 TOM SNIEZEK: Number one, I've never had 20 anybody ask me. Number two, you say warn them about 21 it. One thing is, I think it would be literally 321 1 impossible for me to cover every spot. My first 2 year at Leavenworth in '77, 13 inmates got killed 3 and most of them didn't get killed in blind spots. 4 And we had no cameras back at that time. So what 5 happens across the board here, warning them about 6 it? I can't cover every possible scenario. I think 7 that's literally impossible. What I can tell them 8 and what I do tell them during admission and 9 orientation is how you carry yourself. That is what 10 is important. Like I ask them -- I usually ask them 11 every week, how many of you are doing less than ten 12 years? The overwhelming majority do -- say that, 13 for instance, we have less than ten years. Since 14 the average man now lives until 77, and you're in 15 your 30s, you're going to see the streets again, so 16 why wouldn't -- if you stay out of the things like 17 gambling, betting, that type thing, you know, 18 consensual sex -- it happens. Let's not deny that, 19 it happens out here in the community. We have 20 10,000 police officers in New York City but crime 21 happens every day. It's not a perfect system. 322 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Can consensual sex 2 occur in prison? 3 TOM SNIEZEK: Absolutely. To say -- to 4 not say it would say people don't breathe. As 5 Ms. Leonard said, do we tolerate it? Absolutely 6 not. You can't do that. Does it happen? 7 Absolutely. I think you would be naive to say that. 8 I heard you mention earlier about this -- what are 9 called the blue wall or code. When Al Pacino 10 starred in a movie back in 1977, he ran into what 11 was called the blue wall. I bring that up in A.R.T. 12 every year. Your true friends will not put you in 13 harm's way. They will not ask you to lie, they will 14 not ask you to cover up. Number two, you're putting 15 your own livelihood -- we already know the 16 difference between right and wrong, it's just a 17 matter of whether we want to do anything about it. 18 That's what it comes down to. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: If I may, what 20 happened to the inmate that attempted to cut your 21 throat? 323 1 TOM SNIEZEK: His name was Jose Vega. He 2 was already serving a life sentence and a 3 consecutive 99-year sentence. He was a hit man for 4 a Hispanic drug organization in New York. I went to 5 his sentencing in the Middle District of 6 Pennsylvania, which is Williamsport, he pled out to 7 an additional 15 years consecutive to his life 8 sentence and 99. Last I knew, he was housed at the 9 Administrative -- excuse me, Florence, Colorado, 10 which we refer to as our Administrative Maximum 11 facility. 12 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What was the impact of 13 that act on the entire prison? Surely this isn't 14 something that typically happens, that someone would 15 approach the warden? 16 TOM SNIEZEK: Please, I was an associate. 17 I was not the warden. I was an associate warden at 18 Lewisburg. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Even at that, it would 20 seem to me that is not typical. Was there an impact 21 following that? 324 1 TOM SNIEZEK: Here's the deal. Being very 2 candid about it. In prison, you have to think with 3 your mind, not with your heart. Now, the typical 4 reaction is you lock down, and the place did lock 5 down for about three hours. And the whole reason 6 was, it was assessed that this was not gang-related, 7 it was not an organized situation, that this was one 8 person based on the information we had. I came back 9 that evening, I had to wait three hours because, you 10 know, they triage you. Like I tell inmates -- I 11 only needed stitches. So when I came back, I -- we 12 opened back up at 6:00 p.m. that evening, I walked 13 all the units that evening. And the warden at the 14 time said, I'm still leaving tomorrow, can you be 15 acting warden? That's fine. There was staff that 16 felt we needed to punish inmates and send a message. 17 There were people that were very mad. Fortunately, 18 when we saw it occur, not only was it on camera, but 19 another associate warden went and got a handheld 20 camera and filmed this inmate the entire time so it 21 couldn't be alleged, and he did eventually allege, 325 1 that we beat him, we drugged him. Fortunately, that 2 was all on tape. There was people that felt we 3 should lock down and punish these inmates. But when 4 I walked the cellblocks that evening, it was 5 interesting, a lot of inmates said, you know, we 6 thought you were going to unleash hell on us. As I 7 tell them, I'm like the mafia, it's not personal, 8 it's business. And it was an isolated case and it 9 was not necessary to do that. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is it ever necessary? 11 TOM SNIEZEK: I think each case is 12 evaluated on its individual merits. You have to 13 make the determination from what information is 14 available to you at that time, so I can't sit here 15 and give you a textbook answer to that. I think 16 what you have to look at, based on the information 17 we have, this was an isolated incident. This 18 individual did have some, quote, mental health 19 issues. However, when he was evaluated at our 20 medical center in Springfield, Missouri there was no 21 insanity, anything of that nature, and he came back 326 1 and pled out. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What kind of cases are 3 there where you do need to teach the inmates a 4 lesson? 5 TOM SNIEZEK: First off, I don't think 6 there is a place like that. Remember, there are 7 some staff -- everybody has a different opinion. 8 There are some staff who become very emotional about 9 that. I didn't say it was right or wrong. No 10 different than people in this country who became 11 very emotional after 9/11, but it doesn't make 12 everybody who is a Muslim a bad person. So to 13 answer your question, I can't say there aren't 14 probably some people that think that way, but as -- 15 you don't let it come to fruition. You have an 16 obligation to take the high road here. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We've heard a lot of 18 testimony -- 19 HARLEY LAPPIN: Mr. Chairman, I can't 20 resist. I think I got your question, is there a 21 time we lock down to punish inmates? Is that the 327 1 question? 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 3 HARLEY LAPPIN: We never lock down to 4 punish inmates. We lock down to provide a safe, 5 secure environment. So based on that assessment, if 6 it was determined that that incident was 7 gang-related or had implications beyond that, the 8 place might stay locked down for a week. But not to 9 punish inmates; to be sure we have a safe and secure 10 environment. Granted, as the warden said, I don't 11 care if you go, some folks at the POG, we need to 12 show these folks they can't do that and we need to 13 lock them down just to send a message that is 14 unacceptable. That's not the reason we lock 15 institutions. We send messages sent out explaining 16 to folks the rationale behind the locking of an 17 institution down, and what needs to be assessed by 18 the warden and the executive staff in doing so and 19 determination of when it should come back on. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are there other 21 alternatives that might realistically be used? Is 328 1 that inmate, Mr. Vega, going to have an untimely 2 fall down the stairs in the blind spots. Are there 3 other ways to send a message? 4 HARLEY LAPPIN: I'm not sure I -- you mean 5 is there a chance that someone can mistreat that 6 inmate because he assaulted -- 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We need to send a 8 message short of locking all -- 9 HARLEY LAPPIN: If that occurred, it would 10 be misconduct. It might -- they might be breaking 11 the law, they're abusing a ward of the court. So 12 could it happen? Yes. Has it happened? Probably 13 has. But certainly that's not acceptable. That's 14 unacceptable behavior. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Has that ever happened 16 in your 31 years? 17 TOM SNIEZEK: Would you reword the 18 question, please? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Has any officer in any 20 institution you're aware of, or that you worked for, 21 harmed an inmate for punitive purposes, to teach 329 1 them a lesson, to pay them back for having sliced 2 the neck of an associate warden or something else? 3 TOM SNIEZEK: Let me first off, as the 4 Director clearly said, I hoped what happened on 5 March 14 five years ago showed that we were not in 6 any way, shape, or form trying to hurt inmates. We 7 opened less than three hours after it was assessed. 8 To answer your direct question now, have I heard 9 stories? Absolutely. In 31 years, you hear a lot 10 of stories. Again, the operative word here is 11 stories. I think people as they tell it over the 12 years, it's like a fish story, it gets bigger and 13 bigger. Now, as I mentioned earlier, we already 14 know the difference between right and wrong. We 15 have an obligation to report this. If I ever felt 16 that this is bad, what I'm hearing, I'm going to 17 report it. People tell stories of 30, 40 years ago 18 of what happened. Is it true? Heck, I don't know. 19 When I first got to Leavenworth, they talked about 20 back in the 60s to discipline inmates you could 21 chain them outside their cell and let them stand 330 1 there all day. Is that true? I don't know. That's 2 back in the 50s and 60s. I don't know. 3 HARLEY LAPPIN: Mr. Chairman, it does 4 happen. And when it has happened, we have 5 prosecuted those employees, if the evidence allows, 6 and we -- if convicted, we have them incarcerated. 7 We had a recent incident where an inmate has 8 assaulted an employee, and staff have acted 9 inappropriately and assaulted the inmate. So they 10 are both guilty here. They broke the code of 11 conduct, they broke the rules, some broke the law. 12 It happens on occasion. And if it does happen and 13 we become aware of it, number one, there's an 14 obligation to report, as he indicated. It's 15 referred, we investigate. If, in fact, the employee 16 broke the law, we pursue prosecution. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Speaking of sexual 18 assault, if not at Schuylkill, there have been some 19 high-profile staff sexual misconduct case in the 20 Bureau, have there not? 21 HARLEY LAPPIN: That is correct. 331 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what have you 2 learned from those? 3 HARLEY LAPPIN: We probably learned 4 something from each and every one of those. We 5 spoke earlier about the code of silence. Some of 6 those cases, some staff knew, saw, heard, and failed 7 to report. Can I guarantee that would have led us 8 to the culprit? Can't guarantee that. Probably 9 increase the chances. We have enhanced training, we 10 have raised the standard, the expectation. We are 11 assessing -- 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let me stop you there. 13 We're talking about an institution with zero 14 incidents, so I'm treading gently here. But the 15 person who is making your -- one of your unit 16 managers is involved with work assignments and 17 housing assignments, has not had any PREA-specific 18 training other than the A.R.T., the annual stuff. 19 What has the Bureau learned about enhanced PREA 20 training from these high-profile sexual assaults. 21 HARLEY LAPPIN: Well, I think some staff 332 1 may be receiving, quote, PREA training and not 2 realizing they are receiving it. Let's just go back 3 to the programs of which you have a copy of. Again, 4 staff are attuned to reading program statements, and 5 most of whom, when they read it, understand the 6 context, understand what their obligations are. So 7 at annual training they go over those more 8 specifically and address issues related to what 9 policy requires, whether it's sexual assault, 10 whether it's use of force, whether it's how we treat 11 and manage inmates. For us to go in there and say, 12 we're going to give you PREA training, that probably 13 seldom occurs. It's a relatively new term. But 14 staff receives training the first day -- first week 15 they are on the job, I should say. Actually, the 16 first week they're on the job. All the staff go to 17 two weeks of institution familiarization, brand new 18 employees. And in the first two weeks, as part of 19 that training, they get information about the 20 policies, one of which is sexual assault, reporting, 21 code of conduct. A few weeks later, they go to 333 1 three weeks of training in Glen Cove, correctional 2 techniques. At Glen Cove, they get training. 3 Nobody sits there and says, this is PREA training, 4 this is the code of conduct, this is what you do 5 when someone alleges they have been assaulted, these 6 are the expectations. And then, again, every year 7 every employee goes -- you heard about annual 8 training. Every year every employee receives up to 9 40 hours of training. And there is an agenda, and 10 part of that agenda typically is suicide prevention, 11 reporting sexual assaults, and code of conduct. 12 You're right, nobody has labeled it PREA training, 13 but when you look at what the training is, it has a 14 nexus now to what PREA is. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Warden Sniezek, do you 16 have a sexual assault policy and procedure at 17 Schuylkill? 18 TOM SNIEZEK: There is the national 19 program statement, and each institution is required 20 to have their own institution supplement. An 21 institution supplement is not designed to 334 1 regurgitate the national program statement. In 2 other words -- 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes, I understand. 4 TOM SNIEZEK: You would identify it -- as 5 Doctor Walters indicated earlier, Trish Rodman, the 6 associate warden, is the coordinator. It 7 indicates -- I believe the last time I read our 8 supplement it was only two pages long. But the 9 whole reason is, the national program statement is 10 very in-depth and covers it so there's no reason to 11 regurgitate all that. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let me ask you this. 13 With respect to the previous witnesses, there wasn't 14 a familiarity with a SART, what a sexual assault 15 response team was, familiarity with procedure or 16 protocol. I'm just wondering -- and we have heard a 17 lot of testimony about vulnerable individuals, 18 Doctor Baxter and others, as well as the Lieutenant, 19 profile folks who are vulnerable and folks who are 20 likely to be predators. And we've heard about 21 venues, kitchens, libraries, and so forth. And yet 335 1 I'm not hearing anything about, well, we -- perhaps 2 some of the lessons we can learn are, we should do 3 more of a background check on those who are the 4 supervising cooks and the folks who are in the most 5 vulnerable places, the blind spots. Is that on your 6 radar screen? 7 TOM SNIEZEK: First off, I think -- let me 8 go back to what you indicated earlier. The acronym 9 that you used, you know, at -- each facility, 10 whether state or Federal, uses different ones. The 11 issue comes down to, do you know the procedure? 12 What I'm very comfortable with is, I feel very 13 confident you can go to any of our staff, you could 14 say PREA -- but if he said, an inmate was sexually 15 assaulted, go, oh, no, we would get a hold of Doctor 16 Walters, we have to get a hold of Mr. Kovach. So, 17 other than terminology, we do know. And I think I 18 can speak for the whole agency that way. So I don't 19 get caught up, and I'm not saying you are, with the 20 semantics, but that's what the issue is. Going 21 back -- as I said earlier, we're all correctional 336 1 workers first. I know some people indicated, and 2 again each institution's layout is different with 3 it, you indicated food service. People are going to 4 gravitate where they are most comfortable. In my 5 opinion, I would say most of the time it occurs in 6 the housing unit, in their individual cell -- not 7 individual, at minimum there's usually two people to 8 a cell. At Schuylkill, there's two to a cell there. 9 So I would disagree. Again, now, I didn't say I was 10 right or wrong. That's just based upon my personal 11 observation. I have no data to present to you to 12 say I can prove it over anybody else. I think what 13 it comes down to is the people want to get together, 14 whether staff want to hook up with an inmate, or 15 inmates together, they are going to find that 16 location. No different than they do in the 17 community where people rendezvous at a certain 18 location. So, again, I come back to this that for, 19 one, the system -- our staff are very well aware of 20 it. And on these blind spots, again, we have 130, 21 140-something cameras. Is the system perfect? 337 1 Absolutely not. There could be a blind spot -- I 2 was just looking up here. You walk this hallway, 3 there's a blind spot. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This is not a prison. 5 TOM SNIEZEK: It's not a prison. But 6 where I'm going is the layout. There's offices, et 7 cetera. With that, it is on the radar screen. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you want to put a 9 camera in your culinary area? 10 TOM SNIEZEK: There is one that's going to 11 be put in the open dining room area. If I feel -- 12 for instance, I would sooner have another camera in 13 the rec yard where hundreds of inmates are. I'm not 14 saying it's any less, but I think you look for where 15 the greatest numbers are. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Not for sexual assault? 17 TOM SNIEZEK: No, but I'm talking just 18 across -- let's face it, we cannot just on the radar 19 screen -- just focus on sexual, we have to focus on 20 everything. That's one avenue of it, but I 21 looked -- most of the time when incidents occur, 338 1 they occur in areas where there's a lot of 2 population. Food service, what have you. Do we 3 track people? Absolutely. It was interesting, I 4 heard a comment made earlier about these security 5 threat groups. I realize you don't have that, but 6 in this folder here I track the religious leaders 7 through Mr. Kovach, track, for instance, who is the 8 leaders of the different security threat groups, 9 whether gangs, Hispanic, black, white. We even 10 chart where they sit in the dining room. And the 11 whole reason is for the safety of everybody. So in 12 the big scheme of things, if you're making -- 13 saying, shouldn't you also be preventing sexual 14 assaults and assaults in general, I mean that's what 15 it is, to make it safe for everybody. That is the 16 driving issue. 17 HARLEY LAPPIN: Mr. Chairman, if I can. 18 PREA is relatively new, and I can attest 23 years 19 ago when I came to the Bureau, I had training in the 20 Bureau on how to handle sexual assault. I'm sure 21 Warden Sniezek has in 31 years. Now, has the 339 1 information provided evolved, is it more specific? 2 It is. I mean, once PREA was passed, it says it on 3 the first page of our program statement. Somewhere 4 in here it says as a result of this law, "in keeping 5 with Public Law 108, Rape Elimination Act of 2003, 6 this reissuance changes the definition." So as 7 things changed, the program statement evolves, so 8 it's a living document. But going back -- and I 9 think most reputable local, state, and Federal 10 correctional facilities and -- had procedures in 11 place to deal with these types of issues. PREA has 12 raised our awareness, but, candidly, we don't say to 13 our staff, this is PREA training. This is similar 14 training you had in the past, program statement lays 15 out what training people will get. So it may be 16 that some staff are familiar with the SART -- 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm not hung up on 18 acronyms, I'm hung up on why we wouldn't tell new, 19 first-time inmates, who everybody today has said are 20 the most vulnerable, inexperienced, not street 21 smart, not gang-related, weak, small in stature, why 340 1 in the heck wouldn't we tell them, "you probably 2 want to stay away from several of these places, 3 there are no cameras there, there's one-on-one 4 activity there, and you, I hate to say it, are a 5 prime candidate"? Why wouldn't we want to tell them 6 that? I'm hearing mainly, well, gee, it's going to 7 happen and we can't put cameras everywhere and crime 8 happens all over the country. 9 TOM SNIEZEK: Sir, if I could. As the 10 Director has been a warden and I've been a warden, I 11 feel I can walk anywhere in a given institution, in 12 particular Schuylkill. I don't even draw a radio. 13 I feel I can walk anywhere and be safe. And I don't 14 walk with a group. I walk by myself. I think I 15 would be sending the wrong message to inmates, to my 16 staff, if I said, "don't go here." Then we're 17 saying that we don't run this place. That's how I 18 would interpret it, and I take issue with that. 19 I've always said, if you can walk there, I can walk 20 there, and so I would have a whole lot of 21 difficulty -- I have taken great pride, I think our 341 1 agency has taken great pride. Thirty-one years ago 2 this was emphasized, you should be able to go 3 wherever you want and not be in fear. Because if 4 you are, then you need to address that area. So 5 from my standpoint, I go anywhere, and I do not draw 6 body armor. I didn't say I was better for it, but 7 that's just what I believe. 8 HARLEY LAPPIN: Let's go back to your 9 question on inmates, Mr. Chairman: why is it we're 10 not telling inmates don't go here and don't go 11 there? Because, again, if our staff carry out what 12 we expect them to do, they are in those areas so 13 there's always a fear of omnipresence of community 14 policing, even in the institution. I haven't seen a 15 facility yet that doesn't have blind spots, that -- 16 the cameras are good, they are not the end-all, 17 save-all. If I get a camera, all it takes is 18 somebody to put something over that camera lens. 19 You no longer have a camera. Or to disconnect it. 20 Again, I think it goes back -- our expectations of 21 staff, them carrying out the responsibility. I 342 1 haven't seen a facility yet, if there was one we 2 would certainly be looking at it, that don't have 3 blind spots, that don't have offices that people can 4 get access to. Certainly, we limit their access to 5 those offices at certain hours of the operation. In 6 the evenings there may be areas that we don't want 7 anybody going to, there's no need for them to go 8 to -- to preclude the availability of that. Even in 9 the housing unit, offices, no cameras in the office. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Granted that there are 11 blind spots all around, what is wrong with making 12 people aware of the dangers surrounding blind spots. 13 I must go backward, Warden, to what you're 14 saying in terms of you would walk anywhere. And I 15 just heard you describe that there was an attempt on 16 your life, and that was out in the open, let alone 17 in a blind spot. It would seem to me that in the 18 wider society we make people aware all the time of 19 dangerous areas. That's a responsibility in terms 20 of crime prevention, to ensure that people are 21 cautious and are enlightened about dangerous areas. 343 1 What is wrong, as Mr. Chair says, in making a young, 2 vulnerable inmate aware? We talked earlier this 3 morning about the orientation that inmates receive, 4 is it a down and dirty, realistic view of what 5 prison life is about and the dangers and so forth. 6 Would there be anything wrong across the board in 7 terms of the morale in helping inmates to recognize 8 where the danger areas are? 9 HARLEY LAPPIN: I think in general we -- 10 prisons are dangerous places. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Granted. 12 HARLEY LAPPIN: Bad things happen, no 13 different than other locations. We acknowledge 14 that, there is a threat here. How you manage 15 yourself, how you conduct yourself, your adherence 16 to our expectations to the codes, to the -- your 17 behavior impact how well you're going to do here. 18 Without a doubt, most of them have enough 19 understanding of that to be cautious of where they 20 go, who they associate with. So those discussions 21 occur. We don't sit there and say, you shouldn't go 344 1 there and you shouldn't go there, because that, you 2 shouldn't go here, shouldn't go there, could change 3 to another location. So bottom line is they 4 understand, they should understand, through the 5 orientation, that you're in a place that could be 6 threatening. You're going to associate with folks 7 who try to take advantage of you. There are going 8 to be people who try to manipulate you. Could be a 9 number of those things. If you have concerns about 10 your safety, tell us. Tell us, so we can address 11 those issues specifically with the inmate. I'm 12 afraid to go into this area because of whatever. 13 It's not because of the room, it's because of who is 14 in that room or who has access to the room. We need 15 to get to the who, not necessarily the conditions of 16 the facility, so we can deal with these individuals 17 who are presenting that threat so we can remove them 18 and house them in a more restrictive environment, 19 higher security level, consistent with the behavior 20 that seems to be prevalent during a period of 21 incarceration. 345 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I would think there 2 would be a heightened sense of fear, too, in a 3 prison where someone has been hurt, where a warden 4 has been hurt, certainly from staff and inmates as 5 well. 6 TOM SNIEZEK: But if I could add to what 7 the Director just said. His point is so on target. 8 It's not the area, it's the people that are 9 threatening and being so cognizant of that. I guess 10 when I look at it, the area is very safe. It's 11 monitoring these people. And there are people out 12 there that are not here to follow the rules, there 13 are people that want to prey on other people, and 14 you know that well, so we remove that element. I'm 15 only one person. If it wasn't for the staff behind 16 me, the 284 staff and their commitment, we wouldn't 17 be here. This is not an Army of one. It's like 18 fingers on your hand coming together. So, as a 19 result, you can run a safe environment, a safe 20 prison, like Schuylkill is, and its history is well 21 established before I got there. And I think, again, 346 1 it comes down to accessibility. I'm on the compound 2 every day, they are out there. You have to reach 3 down to these people. Again, inmates, as a rule, 4 want to be safe. We as human beings want to be 5 safe. They will point out to you who they believe 6 are predators, who is trying to run things, and 7 there's times we have had situations where inmates 8 will come, you locked up the wrong people. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Warden, do you train 10 new prisoners how to protect themselves? 11 TOM SNIEZEK: Do I train them? 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Does your staff train 13 them? 14 TOM SNIEZEK: New prisoners. You mean 15 physically, like self-defense? 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How to avoid getting 17 hurt? 18 TOM SNIEZEK: It comes down to what we 19 talk about in admission and orientation, what Doctor 20 Walters brought up here, what I bring up to them, 21 what the Captain brings up to them in correctional 347 1 services, what unit management -- if you do your 2 time and stay out of silliness -- example, you don't 3 need to gamble. That will cause you a lot of 4 problems. People gamble all the time. You try to 5 tell them avoid the pitfalls. Don't borrow from 6 people. If you said, look, I have very little 7 money, here, here's a six-pack of coke, you can pay 8 me back later, that's going down a road that's 9 probably not really good. They're already got their 10 foot in the door, so to speak. Do we educate them 11 on those kind of things? Absolutely. So avoid -- 12 don't -- 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you, in addition to 14 not gambling or borrowing, do you tell them warning 15 signals of sexual predatation? How to tell that 16 somebody is going to be coming on to you? 17 TOM SNIEZEK: I think -- 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Avoid those 19 circumstances? 20 TOM SNIEZEK: To say I come out and say 21 that directly, absolutely not. Do I tell people how 348 1 you conduct yourself professionally with other 2 people on the staff -- 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry, I'm still 4 with intake, admission, orientation, new prisoner. 5 I just heard that you tell them don't gamble, don't 6 borrow, don't get in debt. Do you give them any 7 guidance, does your staff give them any guidance, 8 does Ms. Leonard give them any guidance about how to 9 avoid -- how to spot somebody who may be ultimately 10 going to assault you in some way, including 11 sexually? Warning signs, red flags? 12 TOM SNIEZEK: I think -- I can't speak for 13 Ms. Leonard. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Why doesn't she come on 15 up here. Warden, were you done? Excuse me, go 16 ahead. 17 TOM SNIEZEK: I was just going to mention, 18 sir, I think, again, it comes back to, there's 19 always a story behind the story. I think people, as 20 a rule, determine either, one, you want something 21 from me, whether you want me to pay back double, do 349 1 you want to establish a sexual relationship with it. 2 We all have preconceived notions of who may be 3 coming on to us, but I can't give you a textbook or 4 one blanket answer. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Leonard, would you 6 mind? I guess you're still under oath. 7 AMY LEONARD: I did just want to clarify. 8 First of all, this is, and I believe you have a copy 9 of this, we've also redone it in a nicer version, 10 but we do have a pamphlet that we hand out to the 11 inmates immediately upon their arrival at the 12 institution. And on page six there's a listing of 13 avoiding sexual assault. So we do give the inmate 14 written guidance as far as immediately when they 15 enter the institution. And while I'm speaking, if I 16 could just clarify. I'm sorry if I gave you the 17 impression that I did not receive PREA training. I 18 didn't receive PREA training by the name PREA 19 training, but I do have -- when I did say that I 20 received annual refresher training, I do have the 21 lesson plan that they go by for annual refresher 350 1 training. That does include it and it does list the 2 Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003. But mainly, 3 again, it's, I guess, terminology. We term it as 4 sexually abusive behavior prevention and 5 intervention. So we do receive the training every 6 year, and I have received the training, I just did 7 not -- it wasn't like it was a legal class on the 8 PREA Act itself, but in practice and as far as 9 response, we all receive that training. 10 HARLEY LAPPIN: While Ms. Leonard is here, 11 let's address the issue, Steve. Here's the 12 individual who appears weak, who appears as though 13 they could be taken advantage of. As I mentioned, 14 when the person rolls in the door and they are 15 interviewed, if the interviewer senses that of the 16 individual, they are going to share that, I would 17 hope, with the inmate's unit team. I was a former 18 case manager, former unit employee. Those types of 19 discussions, in my experience, occurred one-on-one 20 with that offender, through the unit manager, case 21 manager, housing manager, saying, candid discussion, 351 1 you look young, you don't seem to be very assertive. 2 These are things, and oftentimes we refer to 3 psychology or elsewhere, to try to improve at least 4 the appearance of confidence. But those are inmates 5 not unlike predators that we're being watchful of. 6 I'm sure that continues to happen, when we see 7 someone struggling, making poor decisions, who they 8 are associating with, who they are communicating 9 with, who they are wanting to hang out with, we 10 certainly have those discussions with the 11 individual. Now, in a group at A and O you may have 12 30, 40, 50 inmates. That's more general in nature. 13 We're not going to have this big discussion on these 14 issues if, in fact -- even if there are folks in 15 there, I think that would be done more one-on-one 16 than to embarrass someone by saying, I'm talking to 17 you, young man, because you look like this. We 18 wouldn't do that. We would do it individually, 19 confidentially to address that issue. No different 20 than a guy who comes in that's a predator. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Has that been your 352 1 experience? 2 AMY LEONARD: That's correct. I have 3 counseled inmates myself, personally during intake 4 screening. If there was a particularly small in 5 stature, appeared weak or appeared timid, we have 6 taken extra time and told them -- or if he has an 7 objectionable offense. Typically in a prison 8 setting, sexual offenders, especially child 9 molesters or related crimes there, tend to be 10 targeted by the rest of the inmate population. We 11 kind of coach them on, you don't want to share your 12 offense with anybody. You don't want to share if 13 you only have a small amount of time left. You want 14 to come up with some sort of other story if you're 15 going to be asked what your offense is if you ever 16 have any problems. Maybe you want to cut your hair. 17 Maybe you don't want to walk around with the long 18 hair and the ponytail. That might help you out a 19 little bit. We have counseled them individually 20 when we do come across somebody that we believe, 21 from our professional judgment, is particularly 353 1 vulnerable. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you consider those 3 factors when you're making job assignments? You 4 mentioned earlier you're involved in job 5 assignments. 6 AMY LEONARD: Correct. All the job 7 assignments we have, though, there's normally not a 8 job assignment where you're not going to be 9 supervised. There are work supervisors for every 10 job assignment. But if there were someone maybe we 11 thought they would need extra supervision, I might 12 consider making them the administration orderly, 13 where their job was to work in my office area to 14 keep them so -- especially at least until he 15 adjusted and we determine how he's adjusting and how 16 well he's adjusted, and then once he comes back on 17 the in-service and he feels safe and made a name for 18 himself -- 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What security-level 20 inmate can work some of these more vulnerable 21 one-on-one areas, like culinary, library? 354 1 AMY LEONARD: We're a medium-level 2 institution, so pretty much almost -- I believe it's 3 over 90 percent are medium-security inmates. We 4 have to have medium-security inmates in every 5 detail. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But don't you exercise 7 a discretion, some are more medium than others, 8 you're not going to send everybody one-on-one to -- 9 AMY LEONARD: Correct. We do have a work 10 assignment committee where if an inmate requests a 11 job change, we will investigate that case. If the 12 inmate has a history of escape, we might not want 13 him working out on the compound. We do that also 14 for the sexually related. It's not that we target 15 that you might be a victim, because, like I said, 16 every -- I'm not sure, maybe our institution is 17 different, but I'm not sure where we're getting 18 stuck on the kitchen. My experience in the kitchen 19 is it's very well supervised, that there are always 20 staff there. When we have meals, all staff stand in 21 line. There's always a constant foot traffic. In 355 1 my experience, most of the jobs -- anybody would be 2 safe there. But if there were somebody who 3 expressed some sort of hesitation, there are jobs 4 available, like I said, like a unit orderly or 5 education orderly where they would be around staff 6 more frequently during their job assignment, and 7 that would be a prime place to put them. 8 HARLEY LAPPIN: This monitoring of the 9 inmates, it goes on continuously. If the inmate 10 begins to wear clothing too tight and comes across 11 as being an effeminate, or could be transgender, we 12 deal directly with those issues with the offenders. 13 There is a dress code. No different than the inmate 14 who decides he's going to sag them back. You're 15 sagging back, that's unacceptable. No different 16 than an offender who appears to be effeminate or 17 coming across that way, we're going to counsel that 18 offender as to the consequences, what message he's 19 sending. And so those things continue -- the unit 20 team has virtually all control of what occurs with 21 that offender. Probably has the closest 356 1 relationship. No different than the person who 2 comes into the screening who has assaulted people in 3 the past. Their discussion is going to be a little 4 different. Theirs is, hey, we see you had these 5 incidents. You misbehaved. We don't accept that. 6 We're going to monitor you more closely. We might 7 put you on a two-hour watch. What does that mean? 8 We might say, listen, we want you to check in, 9 physically go to an employee, tell them who you are, 10 show them your I.D., and that employee reports to 11 the control center so we know where you are every 12 two hours or every hour. Again, it works on both 13 extremes given the characteristics of the offender. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I do have a question. 15 Is there a way that an officer or staff can remove 16 himself if and when his personal attraction for a 17 prisoner would otherwise interfere with his 18 professional judgment? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about we direct 20 that to the Warden. 21 TOM SNIEZEK: Okay. Would you repeat that 357 1 one more time, please? 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Is there a way that a 3 staff person, an officer, can remove himself if and 4 when his personal attraction for a prisoner would 5 otherwise interfere with his professional judgment. 6 TOM SNIEZEK: If a staff member came 7 forward to me and said, I'm attracted to this 8 inmate, in my opinion, it sends up a lot of signs 9 where, number one, we have an obligation to protect 10 these people. And at which time I would look 11 further in getting involved Doctor Walters and SIS, 12 and sitting down with this individual -- I'm 13 concerned at this point. You've just admitted to 14 me -- nowhere is that covered in your job 15 description. Number two, in my opinion, you're 16 violating the code of conduct. Now you're saying 17 you're attracted. What is next? So that is a 18 warning sign to me that I would definitely evaluate 19 to take this further. Because, as I said, 20 otherwise, if you are talking about, you have an 21 attraction to an inmate, that is not good at all. 358 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So the word is going to 2 get out to the CO you definitely don't want to take 3 that request to the warden. What about changing the 4 scenario to personal revulsion? I would like to get 5 transferred to C block because if I see this guy 6 masturbate in my presence one more time, I'm going 7 to kill him. 8 TOM SNIEZEK: I would take it with this, 9 at which point in time we all have biases and 10 prejudices. When you elected to come work for this 11 agency, you made a decision to put yourself above 12 this. So if you feel that his crime is so 13 heinous -- I can't start switching people around. 14 Where does it begin and end? Next thing, you know, 15 are we going to start with race? I mean, you have 16 to put yourself above this, otherwise I would advise 17 you you're going to need to look for another line of 18 work. Because I mean there's every possible 19 scenario out there. 20 HARLEY LAPPIN: And we would deal with the 21 inmate's misconduct of openly masturbating. That's 359 1 a violation. We would deal with that as well. But 2 I agree with the Warden, we have a heart to heart 3 with the employee, are you in the right occupation? 4 The reverse thought, never had it happen nor have 5 ever heard it happen, when someone said, I'm 6 attracted to this inmate. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's probably not a 8 common problem. 9 HARLEY LAPPIN: No, it's not. If it did 10 happen, I assure you the Warden's concern -- I would 11 first look at protecting the inmate. Either remove 12 the employee temporarily, put them in a different 13 assignment, not allow them to work inside the 14 institution, whatever, until we resolved the issue 15 and decided, one, is this somebody -- again, we 16 can't fire them. You can't fire them from the 17 standpoint of being attracted to offender. On the 18 other hand, you still protect the inmate. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Director, is it 20 your testimony that you have never heard of a 21 correctional officer being attracted to a female -- 360 1 HARLEY LAPPIN: I know it's happened, I've 2 just not had anybody come to me and say, I as an 3 employee in Bureau of Prisons am attracted to this 4 offender. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Wouldn't that be 6 because we just heard what would happen to them if 7 they did? That's a sure way to get your pink slip. 8 HARLEY LAPPIN: I don't think we could 9 terminate them. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The Warden thinks you 11 ought to find another line of work, you don't have 12 much of a future here based on what you just told 13 me. So when word gets around -- so it probably 14 makes sense that you haven't heard. I'm just 15 wondering if -- we heard testimony this morning from 16 the California system that romantic involvement by 17 particularly female correctional officers does 18 happen with male inmates for any variety of reasons. 19 It's not unheard of, it's not just on TV. 20 HARLEY LAPPIN: That wasn't the question. 21 Does that happen in the Bureau of Prisons, does 361 1 sexual conduct occur between male and female staff 2 with male -- 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Does that happen? 4 HARLEY LAPPIN: Sure it does, it happens. 5 It's a violation, it's breaking the law. For 6 someone to come and say, I'm attracted to them, I 7 just haven't had that happen. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We just find out after 9 the fact. 10 HARLEY LAPPIN: Yes, after the fact we 11 find out, oftentimes. But I just haven't had the 12 experience of somebody coming to say -- it may have 13 happened to other folks, I don't know. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Call me naive, but I'm 15 just wondering if, given your testimony that it sure 16 happens, and the testimony of California it sure 17 happens, and the testimony we just heard that the 18 consequence of being honest on the front end of it 19 is you lose your job, certainly not going to get 20 transferred, you might get transferred right out of 21 the institution or a different line of work. Would 362 1 it be worth thinking about providing means, not on 2 the basis of race, not on the basis -- you know, 3 it's not just, I like the vantage point from cell 4 block B rather than C or I'm tired of the wallpaper 5 in B, not that there's any wallpaper, but rather, 6 hey, no questions asked, I cannot -- I think I am 7 approaching the line of professionalism with an 8 unnamed individual or individuals, either staff or 9 inmate. I can gut it out and you can -- hopefully, 10 you know, we won't have a disciplinary incident 11 report six months from now, but shouldn't there be 12 an avenue for correctional officers to say that, I'm 13 doing a lot of overtime, maybe that's not the case, 14 certainly the case in California, I'm earning a lot 15 of money but I'm putting in double shifts and I'm 16 not sure I can take too much more of having feces 17 thrown on my head by this lunatic who I just as soon 18 kick down the stairs. 19 HARLEY LAPPIN: I guess I'm struggling 20 here a little bit, Mr. Chairman, because you're 21 talking about, one, somebody approaching you and 363 1 saying I'm attracted to the inmate. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The original question 3 was personal revulsion. 4 HARLEY LAPPIN: Then we went into, I don't 5 like this guy. I didn't testify that this person 6 says -- I don't know exactly what would happen. I 7 didn't testify that person would lose their job. I 8 doubt they would lose their job. But there's an 9 opportunity for us to assess. Employee approaches 10 us, says they're attracted to an inmate. We step 11 back and, one, we're not going to let them together. 12 We're going to separate them. And then we would 13 determine how to proceed, both with the employee and 14 with the inmate. So clearly, you know, the in -- 15 not immediately you're fired. We don't have the 16 wherewithal and authority to do that. So there 17 would be an assessment period, what do we do in this 18 situation if it occurred? It may have happened in 19 the past, I'm unaware of it, but off the top of my 20 head there would be an assessment, what do we do 21 with the employee, what do we do with the inmate, 364 1 and the priority being the safety of the inmate. 2 And we would figure out how to resolve it. Employee 3 could transfer elsewhere, inmate could be 4 transferred. A number of things to resolve that 5 other than termination. As far as, I don't like the 6 inmate, I don't want to see him anymore, I agree 7 with the Warden. You -- you are expected to rise 8 above that. Because if employees begin to say, I 9 don't like them because they're black, I don't like 10 them because they're white, I don't like them 11 because they're Muslim, I don't like them because 12 they're Christian, that -- our expectation is that 13 you will manage the inmates you have responsibility 14 for. If we sense there's -- does a conflict occur 15 sometimes? Do we think sometimes there's a 16 personality conflict? We deal with that. I'm sure 17 he deals with that occasionally, where, gee, I just 18 don't think these two people like each other. Could 19 be the work supervisor with their employee, it could 20 be the officer in the housing unit. And, again, we 21 step back and assess -- hopefully the employee is 365 1 worldly enough to get beyond that. Once it's not 2 this inmate, could be another inmate. And if that 3 continues over and over, obviously you've got a lot 4 of training to do with that employee to get them to 5 overcome this tendency, that you say, I can't be 6 around this inmate. So it happens on occasion. 7 Sometimes it is the inmate. Sometimes the inmate 8 uses that to manipulate to get transfers, I can't be 9 in the housing unit because I don't like Joe; 10 therefore, you need to move me into another housing 11 unit. Well, we're going to be real cautious. 12 Ms. Leonard is very cautious about how quickly we 13 move inmates to other housing just because they 14 don't like an employee. Again, I think it's on a 15 case-by-case basis, period of assessment. If that 16 requires them to be separated, we could do that, 17 either to another housing unit, special housing, 18 employee working elsewhere. 19 TOM SNIEZEK: If I could follow up with 20 that, Mr. Chairman. When your question was, the 21 person came and said, I feel attracted -- number 366 1 one, you definitely have to evaluate. You cannot 2 turn a blind eye to that. So number one, when I 3 said I don't have a good feeling, one, I can't let 4 that person walk out as he's apprised me of it, and 5 we could lead to where we are -- where it becomes 6 further intimate relations. In my 31 years when I 7 have had people -- usually they would say, 8 hypothetically if you heard, I say, are we talking 9 about you? Or, I had a situation in my last 10 institution, the person just said, you know, I'm 11 attracted to this inmate. Well, what turned out, 12 they were taking phone calls on their cell phone, 13 they had given -- this female staff member had given 14 their phone number to inmate. Had they done 15 anything, well, they talked on the phone and on the 16 cell phone. That's why my -- we're all enclosed by 17 our previous experiences, and so when I hear, I'm 18 attracted, right away I'm thinking, every time I've 19 gone down this road in 31 years it hasn't turned out 20 very well, and so I do have concerns. And I think 21 any reasonable person, he or she would pursue that 367 1 to say we need to evaluate. I didn't say we're 2 going to kick him or her out of the door but, my 3 gosh, we do have to evaluate. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Any final comments? 5 HARLEY LAPPIN: Just one. I'll be honest 6 with you, I'm a little concerned that too much of 7 what I hear is people's perception from what they 8 think, rather than what actually is occurring. 9 There is millions of interactions with staff and 10 inmates every single day, throughout the Bureau of 11 Prisons, state facilities, most of which are handled 12 appropriately and professionally. In our experience 13 we're talking about a handful of incidents that are 14 unfortunate, that are unacceptable. Without a 15 doubt, we need to deal with those issues. But I 16 hope you, at least in our experience, realize day in 17 and day out -- hundreds of interactions every day 18 between staff and inmates, inmates and inmates, that 19 are handled and carried out responsibly, 20 professionally. Without a doubt, every day 21 incidents occur that are unfortunate, some of which 368 1 are a violation of code of conduct, some of which 2 are violations of the law, and we certainly have to 3 address those. Some of what -- like I sympathize 4 with her, what's the problem with food service? I 5 tend to agree with her. Food service is oftentimes 6 one of the safest places in the institution. I'm 7 more concerned about details that might be 8 one-on-one, more isolated, more remote, how long 9 that person has been on a detail. Those types of 10 things. Again, that's just my experience, rather 11 than, gee, it seems like a lot of these things 12 happen in food service. My guess is you might find 13 a few of them that happened. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If -- you've read the 15 BJS survey? 16 HARLEY LAPPIN: Yes. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In California, which 18 has a facility under the lowest incidence, they have 19 a random -- I don't think you were here this 20 morning, they have a random survey that indicated 21 4.4 percent of their staff had experienced sexual 369 1 misconduct or sexual assault. That's system-wide. 2 HARLEY LAPPIN: This is inmates reporting? 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Right. And maybe it's 4 overreporting, maybe it's underreporting. And 5 you've seen the BJS study that indicates that some 6 institutions, which we'll be speaking with later 7 this week, have incidence as high as 95 percent 8 degree of probability, as high as 10 percent of the 9 prison population experiencing sexual assault. Now, 10 if those numbers are true and you were the director 11 of one of those systems, would that be more of a 12 handful that you're talking about or is that a 13 serious epidemic that really -- we need to see what 14 we're doing and do something? 15 HARLEY LAPPIN: Don't get me wrong, 16 Mr. Chairman, I want to deal with just a handful, 17 whether it's one, ten, 50, or 100. So believe you 18 me, we're completely in agreement with 19 philosophically what you're trying to do, the 20 direction you're going. On the other hand, prisons 21 are challenging places. There are human beings 370 1 there, human beings that have feelings, emotions, 2 problems, you name it, both staff and inmate alike. 3 They are human beings, they're not perfect. And 4 given that there are going to be unfortunate 5 circumstances that occur, we want to do everything 6 we can to limit or eliminate that to occur. If 7 there's a way we can better identify individuals 8 we're hiring, strategies to do that, tests, 9 evaluations, I think any of us would consider that. 10 If we can improve the classification system, if 11 we can improve the design of facilities, without a 12 doubt we would all consider and move in that 13 direction. Whether it's one -- in my opinion, one, 14 ten, 15, 20, 100, one is too many. But I just hope 15 you realize as well that, at least in our 16 experience, most of the interactions that occur 17 between staff and inmates, and many times inmates, 18 are of an appropriate nature, or else I think we 19 would be seeing a higher incidence of this type of 20 behavior than you are, obviously, not only in the 21 research that was done from BJS, but also the 371 1 survey. 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I would say, sir, that 3 we do recognize that there are very positives that 4 happen each day, and certainly understand the nature 5 of the environment and culture in prisons. It's so 6 important that we have these hearings. It's so 7 important that we shed the light, ask the questions, 8 have you respond to them, because that's the only 9 way we can reach that perfect number that we all 10 want to see. So I hope you understand and recognize 11 what we're doing is trying in every way that we can 12 to improve our system. 13 HARLEY LAPPIN: We understand that. Want 14 to help in any way we can. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Appreciate it. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you very much. 17 We will be adjourned until we reconvene a second 18 hearing tomorrow at 9:00 o'clock in this area. And 19 we will focus on the Florida Department of 20 Corrections. Thank you very much. 21 (Proceeding adjourned at 5:00 p.m.) 372 1 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 2 I, David Corbin, a Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia, do hereby certify that 3 the within named, HEARINGS, personally appeared before me at the time and place herein set according 4 to law, was interrogated by counsel. 5 I further certify that the examination was recorded stenographically by me and then transcribed 6 from my stenographic notes to the within printed matter by means of computer-assisted transcription 7 in a true and accurate manner. 8 I further certify that the stipulations contained herein were entered into by counsel in my 9 presence. 10 I further certify that I am not of counsel to any of the parties, not an employee of counsel, 11 nor related to any of the parties, nor in any way interested in the outcome of this action. 12 AS WITNESS my hand and Notarial Seal this 13 31st day of March, 2008, at Washington, D.C. 14 15 ________________________ 16 David C. Corbin Notary Public 17 18 19 My commission expires January 1, 2012 20 21