1 1 HEARINGS ON RAPE AND STAFF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT 2 IN U.S. PRISONS 3 4 Charlotte Correctional Institution 5 Florida Department of Corrections 6 7 Wednesday, March 12, 2008; 9:00 a.m. 8 9 U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice 10 Programs Building 11 810 7th Street, Main Conference Room, Third Floor 12 Washington, D.C. 13 14 15 PANEL MEMBERS: 16 Steven McFarland, Chair 17 Carroll Ann Ellis 18 19 20 Reported by: 21 Warren Brey 2 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 WITNESS PAGE 3 Walter McNeil, Secretary, FDOC 7 4 George Sapp, Asst. Secretary of Institutions 15 5 James Upchurch, Chief of Security, FDOC 29 6 Donna Hoffman, Inspector Supervisor 7 FDOC, Office of the Inspector General 120 8 Scott Anderson, Captain, Charlotte 120 9 Gail Duran, R.N., Charlotte 148 10 David Colon, Lieutenant, Charlotte 292 11 Powell Skipper, Warden, ICT, Martin 292 12 Rodney Tomlinson, Colonel, ICT, Charlotte 292 13 Adro Johnson, Warden, Charlotte 338 14 15 SECURE MATERIAL BEGINS 332 16 SECURE MATERIAL ENDS 337 17 18 19 20 21 3 0002 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This is the second 3 hearing of the Review Panel on Prison Rape, 4 Department of Justice. We will spend today, 5 Thursday, and Friday hearing from staff and 6 management of some of the prisons that have the 7 highest incidence of sexual assault: One 8 facility in Florida, one in Indiana, and one in 9 Nebraska. The Panel will report to the Bureau of 10 Justice Statistics and to the National Prison 11 Rape Elimination Commission its findings on the 12 common characteristics of both victims and 13 predators in prison, as well as what appears to 14 characterize those prisons that have been the 15 least successful in preventing sexual assault. 16 The end of Friday, we'll recess the hearing until 17 Thursday and Friday, March 27th and 28th. We will 18 reconvene the public hearings in Houston, Texas. 19 There, the Panel will hear from officials and 20 employees at five prisons in the Texas prison 21 system which were among the ten U.S. prisons with 4 1 the highest incidence of prison rape and staff 2 sexual misconduct. And then finally, we will 3 reconvene again here in D.C. in early April to 4 hear from one witness who was unavailable this 5 month, the warden of one of the Texas prisons, 6 the Estelle unit. So by early next month, after 7 seven days of sworn testimony, the Panel will 8 have scrutinized the features of ten prisons: 9 Nine facilities in five state systems, and one 10 facility in the federal system. 11 Let me just reiterate a couple of 12 requests that we have of the witnesses. First of 13 all, I want to thank you for being here. I know 14 it's a considerable inconvenience to have so many 15 of your staff away from duty. 16 One request is that if you have -- if 17 you've submitted a written statement, just assume 18 that we have read it. Don't feel obliged to read 19 it. You're, of course, free to do so. The more 20 time we have for questions, the better. 21 Second, if you'd define any jargon or 5 1 acronyms or prison slang. And if need be, to 2 make yourself clear, if you need to use some 3 adult, vivid language, raw language, go right 4 ahead. It's a raw subject. 5 A third request we'd make is that the 6 more specific, succinct, and direct the better. 7 Your testimony is under oath, but it's not a 8 criminal inquest. We're looking for what works 9 and what does not work, what's associated with 10 high and low incidence of sexual victimization. 11 So we're not looking to place blame. We just 12 want to learn what can be done to stop prison 13 rape and staff sexual misconduct in your prisons. 14 And we're solely going to be focused on 15 prison systems. The jails will come later, when 16 BJS releases their rankings the end of April. 17 Finally, the record will be left open 18 until 30 days after the last hearing of the 19 warden of the Estelle unit, so sometime probably 20 early May the record will close. We'll keep it 21 open should any witnesses wish to add any 6 1 additional or clarifying remarks or documents. 2 And now, as I introduced her yesterday, 3 it's my privilege to introduce Ms. Carroll Ann 4 Ellis, again, who is the director of the Victims 5 Services Division of the Fairfax, Virginia Police 6 Department. And I went over her credentials 7 yesterday. We're privileged to have her, and 8 defer to her, if she has some remarks this 9 morning. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Good morning. I 11 join the chairman in saying to you thank you for 12 traveling a long distance to be with us here 13 today. We had a very productive day yesterday, 14 and look forward to the same. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If the first panel, 16 executive panel, could come forward, Secretary 17 McNeil and Mr. Sapp and Mr. Upchurch. And if you 18 would raise your right hand, let me swear you in, 19 please. 20 (The witnesses were placed under oath.) 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. Welcome. 7 1 Have a seat. 2 Mr. Secretary, the floor is yours. 3 WALTER MCNEIL: Thank you, sir. 4 Mr. Chairman, Ms. Ellis, I'm Walt 5 McNeil. I'm the secretary of the Department of 6 Corrections, recently appointed by Florida 7 Governor Charlie Crist. I want to thank you for 8 the opportunity to address you and, hopefully, 9 assist in accomplishing your goal of eliminating 10 sexual assault of incarcerated individuals in our 11 country, not only in our state, but obviously in 12 our country. 13 I assumed the duties of secretary 14 approximately six weeks ago, and I'm rapidly 15 becoming acquainted with the issues facing our 16 department, as well as the staff in place who 17 deal with those issues daily. Among those staff, 18 whom I rely on, are Mr. George Sapp, to my left; 19 also, Mr. James Upchurch, the chief of security 20 for the department; Ms. Donna Hoffman, the 21 correction officers senior inspector and 8 1 statewide PREA coordinator for the department; 2 and Ms. Kathleen Von Hoene, our general counsel 3 for the department. Between us, the staff who 4 are assembled here, we should be able to answer 5 your questions related to statewide 6 implementation of PREA goals of prevention, 7 investigation, and prosecution of sexual assaults 8 on inmates in the Florida Department of 9 Corrections. 10 Additionally, there are witnesses who 11 will be appearing on the panels later in the day, 12 which are now, or were during the time period of 13 the survey, assigned to Charlotte Correctional 14 Institution. They are trained, experienced 15 professionals, members of our correctional team, 16 led by Warden Johnson. These individuals will be 17 able to address your questions related 18 specifically to Charlotte Institutional 19 Correctional Facility. 20 You have been provided a great deal of 21 information in response to your requests, which 9 1 reflect the department's dedication to the 2 realization of the goals of PREA and of this 3 Panel. One or more of the individuals present 4 should be able to address any question that you 5 may have about these materials or about the 6 matters to which they are related. 7 The Florida Department of Corrections' 8 efforts to reduce or eliminate sexual assaults on 9 inmates within its system began long before PREA 10 was enacted. Staff-inmate/offender relationships 11 have all been strictly prohibited, and any 12 employee found in violation of that prohibition 13 is dismissed. Certain sexual activity between 14 staff and inmate offenders is prosecuted under 15 criminal statutes of the State of Florida. 16 Further, the failure of any employee with 17 knowledge of prohibited activity to report that 18 activity will result in administrative action, 19 criminal -- and/or criminal prosecution. 20 Likewise, inmate-on-inmate sexual activity is 21 prohibited by the department rule, and sexual 10 1 assaults are investigated and prosecuted as 2 crimes. Our inmates' orientation includes the 3 use of the National Institute of Corrections - 4 produced DVD entitled Speaking Up, discussing 5 prison sexual assault, at our reception centers, 6 at the very outset. Our staff is trained as it 7 relates to the purpose and the requirements of 8 PREA, during new employee orientation and at our 9 annual in-service training. We have posters 10 displayed at all institutions which encourage 11 inmates to report abuse to staff or to call a 12 toll-free number set up for reporting PREA 13 incidents. The grievance process is another 14 avenue through which reports of sexual abuse can 15 be made. Inmates in the Florida Department of 16 Corrections report allegations of sexual abuse or 17 harassment utilizing all of these methods. The 18 reports are entered into our investigative 19 tracking system, and are labeled PREA incidents. 20 The PREA incident reports are investigated by our 21 inspector general's office representatives, where 11 1 the allegations can be substantiated. 2 The perpetrators, either staff or 3 inmates, are prosecuted immediately. Staff may 4 be disciplined administratively or, where 5 appropriately, criminally. Inmates are written 6 disciplinary reports and are prosecuted 7 criminally. The department's policy of zero 8 tolerance of sexual abuse is well-known both to 9 our staff and to inmates. 10 The National Inmates Survey completed 11 by the Bureau of Justice Statistics indicates 12 results showing a high rate of allegations by 13 inmates at our Charlotte Correctional Institution 14 of staff-on-inmate nonconsensual sex acts during 15 the year 2006. Needless to say, those results 16 are a concern to me and to our staff, and the 17 administration at the Charlotte Correctional 18 Institution, as well as our institutions 19 statewide. 20 Upon receiving the results of the NIS, 21 we worked to determine whether these allegations 12 1 are consistent with our records of reported PREA 2 incidents from inmates at Charlotte during the 3 time period. And what we find is that they are 4 not. Our reports indicate that 37 complaints 5 were made that were classified as PREA-related 6 allegations. Of those complaints, 35 were 7 complaints against staff members. Of those 8 complaints against staff, 34 were for verbal 9 harassment by staff. Only one complaint alleged 10 physical sexual contact by a staff member against 11 an inmate. That allegation was not 12 substantiated. 13 Why, then -- why, then, is there such a 14 large discrepancy between the number of incidents 15 reported to the inspector general's office and 16 the number reported through NIS? 17 Because the survey was anonymous, we 18 were unable to address the specific instances or 19 share with the Panel the history of the inmates 20 who participated in the survey. However, the 21 institutional profile of Charlotte Correctional 13 1 Institution allows us to make certain 2 generalizations or general observations about the 3 inmate population housed at the institution. I 4 will ask Mr. Upchurch to share those observations 5 with you concerning close management. 6 Prior to the passage of the Prison Rape 7 Elimination Act, the Florida Department of 8 Corrections had in place many different 9 procedures to provide for the safety of inmates, 10 including but not limited to steps taken at the 11 institutional level. These include the use of 12 protective management and administrative 13 management, and directions given to -- given by 14 prior administrations. 15 This morning, Mr. Sapp will discuss the 16 department's long-standing efforts to maintain 17 security and order in our prison facilities. 18 Donna Hoffman will speak to you this 19 morning on implementation of the PREA grant, and 20 generally to the statewide PREA effort. 21 Kathleen Von Hoene can discuss the zero 14 1 tolerance disciplinary policy for employees 2 engaged in unprofessional relationships with 3 inmates and offenders. 4 And the general counsel's office has 5 oversight of inmate -- of the inmate grievance 6 procedure. 7 Chairman McFarland and Ms. Ellis, as I 8 close, I believe it important to point out to you 9 the aspects of my background which I believe to 10 be relevant to our discussion here today. I want 11 you to know that I devoted just over 30 years of 12 my life fighting for justice, and justice for all 13 persons who come in contact with our criminal 14 justice system. In that regard, I spent the 15 early part of my career as an internal affairs 16 investigator, focused on police officer 17 corruption and misconduct. Later, as a police 18 chief for 10 years, I worked to build one of the 19 most professional police departments in the 20 country. I share this background information 21 with you so as to make it abundantly clear that 15 1 neither I nor the governor of the State of 2 Florida, Charlie Crist, will tolerate any abuse 3 of inmates or staff. Moreover, I think it 4 important that you know that we are committed in 5 the State of Florida to eliminating prison rape. 6 And with that, I'll close my opening 7 comments, and ask that Mr. Sapp will follow, 8 followed by Mr. Upchurch. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you, 10 Mr. Secretary. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Sapp? 13 GEORGE SAPP: Thank you. 14 My name is George Sapp. I'm the 15 assistant secretary for institutions. I've been 16 with the agency for 31 years. I oversee all the 17 operations of all of our institutions in the 18 State of Florida except for the private 19 facilities, which we have five of, so anything 20 that has to do with institutional operations 21 falls under my purview. 16 1 So give you -- as the secretary said, 2 to give you the background on the history of the 3 department, and our efforts for many years to 4 eliminate assaults of any kind, let alone sexual 5 assaults, we have historically been proactive in 6 our efforts to eliminate these incidents. Years 7 prior to the adoption of PREA, the Florida 8 Department of Corrections has had rules and 9 procedures in place to address detection, 10 prevention, reduction, and punishment of sexual 11 misconduct. And one of the first ways we do that 12 is by the way we house inmates and the way we 13 classify them. We utilize an inmate 14 classification system that includes diagnostics 15 and assessments guidelines for analyzing the 16 needs of each inmate to ensure inmates are 17 assigned to appropriate custody levels and placed 18 into facilities with programs designed to meet 19 and identify the needs of the individual inmate. 20 With that said, we have special housing 21 for inmates that have special needs. We utilize 17 1 special housing assignments apart from the 2 general population to separate inmates with 3 special detection needs and remove inmates for 4 behavior problems from the general population. 5 One of the first ones I'd like to talk 6 about is protective management. It refers to a 7 special management status for the protection of 8 inmates from other inmates in an environment that 9 is representative of that general population as 10 safely as possible. Inmates are placed in 11 protective management when the inmate fears for 12 his safety from other inmates and there's no 13 other reasonable alternative open to him. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Excuse me, Mr. Sapp. 15 (Discussion off the record.) 16 GEORGE SAPP: Am I reading too fast? 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Evidently not. 18 GEORGE SAPP: Elements considered in 19 determining whether protective management is 20 necessary include a record of having been 21 assaulted; a reputation among the inmate 18 1 population, attested to in writing by staff, as 2 an informant or trial witness; verified threats, 3 verbal abuse, or harassment; a formal criminal 4 justice activity resulting in verified threats, 5 verbal abuse, or harassment; a conviction of any 6 crime repugnant to the inmate population; 7 reliable, confirmed evidence of sexual 8 harassment; other factors such as physical size, 9 build, and age producing a risk from general 10 inmate population. 11 While we look at those claims, we have 12 a status called administrative confinement that 13 the inmate goes into. We try to determine if 14 there's any corroboration to any of the 15 allegations that the inmate makes or that we 16 determine to protect them until we can find them 17 an appropriate housing for that inmate. We call 18 that administrative confinement. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Excuse me, sir. 20 What was the last statement? 21 You said we call that -- 19 1 GEORGE SAPP: Administrative 2 confinement. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Administrative 4 confinement? 5 GEORGE SAPP: Yes. 6 For those inmates that have -- that are 7 predatory in nature and assaultive in nature, we 8 have close management segregation unit. This 9 confinement is of an inmate apart from general 10 population for reasons of security or in order -- 11 of effective management of the institution where 12 the inmate, through his or her behavior, has 13 demonstrated an inability to live in the general 14 population without abusing the rights and 15 privileges of others. 16 We have another level of confinement 17 above that called maximum management. This is a 18 temporary status for an inmate, who through a 19 recent incident or series of recent incidents has 20 been identified as being an extreme security risk 21 to the department, requires an immediate level of 20 1 control beyond the availability of close 2 management. 3 So we take many steps to make sure that 4 we take those individuals off the yard that are 5 assaultive in nature, either to our staff or our 6 inmates. We take that very serious. 7 Inmate reporting mechanisms: We'd like 8 to make sure that all inmates have the ability to 9 report any kind of problem they may have in their 10 daily life at an institution. We have various 11 reporting mechanisms that are available to 12 inmates who allege they have been subject to 13 sexual misconduct by inmates or staff. 14 Consultation with staff: Inmates may 15 at any time request to speak privately with 16 security or nonsecurity staff, such as 17 inspectors, chaplains, medical, or mental health 18 staff, to make reports of sexual abuse. 19 We have the inmate grievance procedure. 20 Inmate grievance is fully -- the inmate grievance 21 procedure was fully certified by the United 21 1 States Department of Justice in March of 1992. 2 The grievance procedure provides a means for 3 internal resolution of problems and improving 4 lines of communication. It also provides written 5 documentation in the event of subsequent judicial 6 or administrative review. 7 You also have the TIPS hotline. A free 8 speed-dial number is available for dialing from 9 any telephone designated for an inmate to use to 10 report suspected criminal activities or crimes 11 that occur inside or outside of the institution. 12 The inmate does not have to enter his or her 13 personal identification or pin number to access 14 the prison TIPS hotline. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And that goes to 16 who? 17 GEORGE SAPP: It goes to our central 18 prison TIPS hotline central office, and we clear 19 those investigations, or if we feel we got enough 20 information we would open an investigation and 21 continue to make referral to outside law 22 1 enforcement. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: By central prison, 3 specifically, does it go to the office of the IG 4 or -- 5 GEORGE SAPP: Yes, the inspector 6 general. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Excuse me. 8 GEORGE SAPP: With that said, when PREA 9 was enacted in 2003, FDC took additional steps to 10 eliminate sexual misconduct. We implemented a 11 zero tolerance policy for sexual misconduct. The 12 administrators stressed the department's zero 13 tolerance policy to ensure reduction and 14 prevention of sexual misconduct. In developing 15 the zero tolerance standard, the Florida 16 Department of Corrections has made detection, 17 prevention, reduction, and discipline of inmate 18 sexual assault and rape a top priority in each of 19 our correctional facilities. 20 We've provided processes for tracking 21 of the PREA-related complaints. Tracking begins 23 1 immediately following each reported incident and 2 continues through the investigative process until 3 final resolution. 4 We adopted a specific PREA procedure to 5 establish and implement zero tolerance standards 6 and developed training for staff. Training 7 materials became available July 1, 2005 and all 8 staff were required to complete the training by 9 September 30th, 2005. The training was also 10 incorporated into our orientation for new hires, 11 and is part of our annual in-service training for 12 all correctional staff. 13 We incorporated sexual assault into the 14 inmate orientation process. During initial 15 orientation, inmates receive information on 16 prevention and protection issues, reporting 17 sexual assaults with emphasis on and importance 18 of reporting information, on available sexual 19 assault counseling, instructions on the process 20 for requesting sexual assault counseling. 21 We've designed and printed posters for 24 1 placement in housing units and common areas of 2 each facility, printed in Spanish and English, 3 for easy accessibility by all inmates. 4 We established a greeting process by 5 mental health for PREA issues within 24 hours of 6 the inmate's arrival at a new facility. 7 We currently have procedures in 8 technical instruction manuals for investigative 9 processes; for audio and video surveillance; for 10 data collection of the inspector general's log, 11 or the IG log information that you'll hear about 12 later; medical encounter forms with sexual 13 assault indicator included; referrals to outside 14 hospitals for rape examination, physical 15 examination, and treatment; institutional special 16 review of inmates involved in sexual assault; 17 protect them in close management custody housing 18 assignments; orientational and sexual assault 19 education of offenders; interface for all data 20 collection points. 21 The Florida Department of Corrections 25 1 is working to enhance the process currently in 2 place, specifically: inmate medical orientation; 3 provision of acute trauma care and medical and 4 psychological treatment for victims and 5 perpetrators; transition coordination of released 6 victims and perpetrators to the community and 7 post-release supervision to include referrals to 8 communities for long -- long-term care; 9 consideration of facility design and structure 10 for prevention of sexual assaults; and the 11 further development of a tracking system to 12 identify staff with multiple allegations of 13 sexual misconduct. 14 In the past 24 months, we have 15 implemented the following which is aimed at 16 reducing sexual violence: We have established 17 consistent and specialized protocols to guide 18 investigations and intervention processes to the 19 Office of the Inspector General. We've 20 implemented internal policies and procedures to 21 promote accountability of inmates who perpetrate 26 1 sexual violence within the correctional system, 2 including but not limited to disciplinary 3 confinement, increasing the security level, 4 referral to state attorney offices for 5 prosecution. We've developed community 6 partnerships to assure a swift and effective 7 investigation and prosecution of these cases and 8 collected quantitative data to evaluate the 9 outcome of prison rape elimination efforts. 10 Services to victims: We provide 11 immediate crisis intervention following the 12 victim disclosure identification implemented to 13 the Office of Health Services; assured 14 safekeeping of victims of prison sexual assault, 15 including but not limited to protective 16 management and institutional transfers, delivered 17 timely through sensitive interventions consistent 18 with community standards of care administered 19 through the Office of Health Services; and 20 provide specialized mental health services to 21 meet both the acute and ongoing needs of victims 27 1 provided by the Office of Health Services. 2 Prevention: We utilize technology and 3 other state-of-the-art equipment to enhance 4 monitoring, eliminating blind spots, and reducing 5 the opportunity for victimizations. We 6 implemented classification systems that identify 7 potential aggressors and vulnerable inmates. We 8 expanded the use -- 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. 10 Could you repeat the last one? 11 GEORGE SAPP: We implemented 12 classification systems that identify potential 13 aggressors and vulnerable inmates; expanded the 14 use of specialized housing or placement options 15 for vulnerable inmates; and provided inmate 16 education to inform the prisoners of the 17 institution's philosophy regarding prison rape, 18 methods to reduce likelihood of victimization, 19 steps to take in the event such incidents occur, 20 and affirm the institution's commitment to 21 aggressively take action against perpetrators. 28 1 Task force and workers have been 2 initiated and will continue to be developed to 3 bring key stakeholders to the table from other 4 state agencies, local government agencies, law 5 enforcement agencies, victims services, 6 community providers, and general public, and 7 others, to help the Department of Corrections 8 deal with the issues that threaten public safety 9 statewide. 10 County jails will be invited to 11 participate in PREA training developed by the 12 Department of Corrections. Some jails have 13 already requested assistance, and the rest will 14 be invited to participate at local training 15 events. 16 The Office of the Inspector General is 17 responsible for submitting an annual report of 18 all investigations completed where allegations of 19 sexual misconduct by staff, inmates, and/or both 20 have occurred as defined by the Prisoner Rape 21 Elimination Act. This annual report will be 29 1 submitted to the secretary of the Bureau of 2 Justice Statistics and the PREA team. 3 The Office of Institution is 4 responsible for supervision of all four 5 institutional regions and operational management 6 of all correctional facilities. 7 We are dedicated and are very much in 8 front of this issue, and we want to make sure 9 that we do everything we can to help eliminate 10 rape or any type of sexual victimization in our 11 institutions. 12 Thank you. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you, Mr. Sapp. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Church -- 16 Upchurch? 17 JAMES UPCHURCH: I'm -- is this on 18 (referring to mic)? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes, I think it is. 20 JAMES UPCHURCH: I'm James Upchurch. 21 I'm the chief of security operations for the 30 1 Department of Corrections. I began my career in 2 corrections in 1968 as an officer in Mississippi 3 State Penitentiary in Parchman, working part-time 4 while I was going to school. I got promoted up 5 through to deputy warden in 1982, and went to 6 Arizona, and the Arizona Department of 7 Corrections as their warden at Perryville. I 8 served as the warden over various types of 9 institutions throughout the next 14 years during 10 my tenure in Arizona. In 1996, I accepted the 11 position that I currently hold in Florida, where 12 I have responsibility for the development and 13 maintenance of the security program within the 14 Florida Department of Corrections. 15 The Charlotte Correctional Institution 16 is a criminal facility primarily housing close 17 management inmates. It is one of only four 18 institutions in the Florida Corrections System 19 housing this type of inmate. The total inmate 20 capacity for Charlotte CI is 1,031, with 21 approximately 800 of the assigned inmates being 31 1 in close management status. 2 Close management is an inmate status 3 requiring a confinement of the inmate apart from 4 the general population in a restrictive, highly 5 secured setting. This confinement status is 6 necessary for reasons of security and/or the 7 orderly and effective management of the 8 department's institutions. Inmates in this 9 status, through their behavior, have demonstrated 10 an inability to live in the general inmate 11 population without violating or abusing the 12 rights and privileges of others, and/or creating 13 significant disruption to institutional security 14 and order. Less than four percent of the total 15 Florida Department of Corrections inmate 16 population is determined to meet the requirement 17 and need close management status assignment. 18 Close management consists of three 19 individual levels: 1, 2, and 3. 20 As you said, you've read these 21 statements, so I won't go and read everything in 32 1 these, but I will summarize. 2 Close Management 1 are inmates who 3 have, in that status, attained that status by 4 causing death, an injury act that could result in 5 an injury to another, serious injury, physical 6 assault on staff, taking of a hostage, 7 instigation or incitement of a riot, causing 8 major property damage, escape or escape attempt 9 involving weapons/outside assistance, violence, 10 et cetera. This is the most restrictive. CM 1 11 is the most restrictive close management status. 12 Close Management 2 is a less 13 restrictive housing status than you see in 1. 14 Any of the following factors constitute a basis 15 for placement of the inmate in CM 2 status. 16 I understand you don't have my 17 statement. I'll read it. 18 An act or acts in the community during 19 other periods of confinement or any circumstances 20 associated with the current period of 21 incarceration such that safety, security, and the 33 1 public safety concerns suggests further review 2 prior to placement in open population; a pattern 3 of predatory actions which makes an inmate a 4 threat to others; an act causing injury or an act 5 which could have resulted in injury to another; 6 an escape or an escape attempt from within the 7 secure perimeter of a facility without violence, 8 the use of weapons, the taking of hostages, or 9 the use of equipment or tools, or outside 10 assistance; participation in riots or disorders 11 during any period of incarceration; a pattern of 12 behavior during the present period of 13 incarceration involving acts of violence or 14 threats of violence; initiated or participated in 15 contraband trafficking operation involving 16 negotiables, escape paraphernalia, or other 17 items that present a threat to the safe and 18 secure operation of the institution or facility; 19 presents a risk to another inmate's safety and 20 well-being in population, the population, as 21 identified by an act or acts which demonstrate an 34 1 inability to live in the general population 2 without endangering others; is currently a CM 3, 3 which is the less restrictive level, and shows an 4 inability to adjust as evidenced by subsequent 5 major rule violations. 6 And finally, Close Management 3 is the 7 least restrictive status of the three CM housing 8 statuses. Any of the following factors 9 constitutes a basis for placement of an inmate in 10 CM 3 status: An escape or attempted escape, or a 11 documented history of escape from a nonsecured 12 facility or environment without weapons, 13 violence, or outside assistance, or the arrest 14 for any felony while on escape; assisting or 15 aiding in the escape, or an attempted escape; a 16 history of disciplinary action or institutional 17 adjustment reflecting an inability to live in a 18 general population without disrupting the 19 operation of the institution; participation in 20 predatory or aggressive acts through the use of 21 force or intimidation; participation in a riot or 35 1 disorder by refusing to follow orders from staff; 2 possession of unauthorized drugs; testing 3 positive for drugs on a urine analysis test; 4 possession of negotiables, escape paraphernalia, 5 or other items that present a threat to the safe 6 and secure operation of an institution or 7 facility; and a validated membership in a 8 security threat group that has been certified by 9 the Threat Assessment Review Committee in the 10 central office. 11 Security staffing level at Charlotte CI 12 and the other CM institutions are significantly 13 higher than those found in inmate general 14 population facilities. For example, security 15 staff at Charlotte CI totals 358 officers of 16 various ranks, including supervisors, while 17 similar-sized general population institutions 18 average less than 200 security staff assigned. 19 There's supervision and escort 20 requirements for all outside-of-the-cell 21 activities, including showers, barber services, 36 1 medical/dental health appointments, outside 2 exercise period, and limited access for 3 CM 2s and CM 3s, and service delivery -- also, 4 service delivery self-run, including food/meals, 5 clothing, laundry, library, hygiene items, et 6 cetera, to make the close management living units 7 busy, staff-intensive area. It's coupled with 8 required cell visits by education, chaplain and 9 volunteer, law library, wellness, classification, 10 medical and mental health, supervisory and 11 management staff. The activities and staff 12 presence in the living units is unmatched in any 13 other living units in the department. 14 In addition to the significance all of 15 these visits to the living areas have for 16 addressing the basic needs for the inmates, they 17 also provide ready access to both security and 18 nonsecurity staff to voice concerns and 19 complaints. CM inmates are, for example, 20 afforded immediate response to any professed 21 mental health-related stress, and detailed 37 1 procedures dictate both security and professional 2 staff's required responses. 3 Members of these various services -- 4 service disciplines assess the living environment 5 from their individual discipline's perspective 6 during their visits, and advise management, 7 during regularly occurring staff meetings, of any 8 environmental observations that may be 9 detrimental to the accomplishment of the purpose 10 of their visits. 11 Close management is not punitive in 12 nature, but it is necessarily restrictive and 13 highly controlled in such areas as inmate 14 property, movement, and association with other 15 inmates. Inmates in close management are 16 carefully supervised and monitored almost 17 constantly. Each CM inmate is observed every 30 18 minutes by a security staff member, and these 19 observations are carefully documented for 20 subsequent review by security supervisory staff. 21 Assurances that these security health 38 1 and welfare checks are being conducted is further 2 achieved by review by supervisors and managers of 3 the recordings from fixed video cameras located 4 throughout the CM living areas. These recordings 5 are maintained routinely for 30 days, and longer 6 if there is any indication that there may be a 7 need for further investigation. Additional 8 monitors for these cameras are located in the 9 offices of high-ranking institutional managers 10 for live review at any time. 11 Security practices in the CM living 12 units are rigorous and carefully performed and 13 monitored. CM inmates in CM 1 and CM 2 statuses 14 are always restrained in a minimum of handcuffs 15 applied behind the backs whenever they are out of 16 their assigned cell. Two security staff are 17 required to be present whenever inmates in either 18 of these statuses are brought out of their cell 19 for any reason. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's CM 1 and CM 21 2? 39 1 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes. Yes, sir. 2 All security procedures and activities 3 occurring by staff assigned to the living area 4 themselves are also observed and monitored 5 constantly by officers stationed in elevated, 6 secure control rooms, with walls comprised solely 7 of impact-resistant security glass. These same 8 control officers remotely control the cell door 9 locks and must initiate any opening of them, of 10 an inmate's cell door. Officers assigned to 11 living areas themselves do not carry keys to 12 access the inmate's cell doors. All activities 13 within the CM housing units are documented by the 14 assigned control room officer or sergeant. As 15 stated previously, all activities by staff and 16 the living areas are monitored by control room 17 staff and video cameras that record 24 hours each 18 day, archived reportings for at least 30 days. 19 Additionally, the cells in the CM 20 living units are arranged in such a manner that 21 the activities of security and other staff are 40 1 clearly visible to a significant number of the 2 inmates assigned to each living area, a number 3 ranking between 30 to 60 inmates, depending on 4 the CM level in the area and, subsequently, 5 whether they are double-bunked or not. Inmates 6 hear distinctly the opening of the living area 7 door, and in many cases peer immediately through 8 the view windows existing in all of the cell 9 doors to see what is going on. The living areas 10 are designed -- are, by design, like a fishbowl, 11 where little if any activity by staff or inmates 12 escapes observation and/or scrutiny. 13 Inmates in close management file an 14 exponentially higher number of grievances by 15 staff and institutional operations in general. 16 Although these grievances are investigated 17 appropriately in accordance with the rules and 18 procedures, frequently they are without factual 19 basis. This can be an attempt by the inmates to 20 strike out against an officer as retaliation for 21 efforts to maintain security and order. These 41 1 grievances are collected each morning by allowing 2 inmates to deposit their grievance in the lockbox 3 circulated by a nonsecurity classification staff 4 member. This lockbox is delivered to a grievance 5 coordinator assigned independently by the inmate 6 grievance office in the department's central 7 office. And it is only unlocked at that time to 8 begin to review an investigation process. 9 In summary, the institutional 10 environment found in any long-term segregation 11 unit, such as close management, is a difficult 12 one for staff and inmates alike. A carefully 13 organized and planned operation of this type is 14 characterized by having a security program 15 replete with multiple redundancies in terms of 16 security hardware, physical plant design, 17 security supervision and monitoring, and finally, 18 in safeguards to prevent abuse and violence in 19 any form, and/or opportunities to safely report 20 allegations of such incidents should they occur. 21 The operational characteristics of the Charlotte 42 1 Correctional Institution of the Florida 2 Department of Corrections include all of these 3 elements. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, 5 before we -- 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Before we start, 8 I'd like to go back to Mr. Upchurch. 9 Just for my information, where exactly 10 is your facility located in Florida? 11 JAMES UPCHURCH: It's near Punta Gorda 12 in South Florida. It's about a quarter of the 13 way up from Miami, Fort Myers areas. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Okay. And how old 15 is it, the physical plant itself? 16 How long has it been in operation? 17 JAMES UPCHURCH: About 15 years. 18 GEORGE SAPP: '89. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And would you 20 repeat total population and the number of inmates 21 who are in CM status? 43 1 You indicated that you had how many in 2 the population? 3 JAMES UPCHURCH: The total capacity, 4 which there are several different capacity levels 5 at law that we can have, by Florida law, total 6 capacity, which is our desired population, is 7 1,031. And approximately 800, I think it was a 8 little in the upper 700s when I got it, but it's 9 right at 800 of those are close management. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Okay. So 800 of 11 that number are in either 1, 2, or 3 CM status? 12 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes, ma'am. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you, 15 Mr. Upchurch. 16 Mr. Secretary, thank you for your 17 comments and your stated commitment to 18 eliminating this scourge. And we're very 19 cognizant of the fact that you've only been in 20 the position for six weeks, so we appreciate you 21 coming, and realize that this has, what has 44 1 happened while at Charlotte, allegedly, has not 2 been on your watch. 3 Is there such a thing as consensual sex 4 between a correctional staff member and a 5 prisoner? 6 WALTER MCNEIL: No, there isn't. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Needless to say, 8 that would be a disciplinary violation? 9 WALTER MCNEIL: That is correct. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And a crime? 11 WALTER MCNEIL: Yes, it would. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is there such a 13 thing as permissible sexual humor between one of 14 your staff members and a prisoner? 15 WALTER MCNEIL: No, there isn't. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would that 17 constitute sexual misconduct? 18 WALTER MCNEIL: That would. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I want to be clear 20 about our understanding of why Charlotte was 21 asked to come today. As I understand the Bureau 45 1 of Justice Statistics' National Inmate Survey, 2 163 of your prisoners at Charlotte were 3 interviewed, over 70 percent response rate, and 4 over 12 percent of them, which would extrapolate 5 to 127 of the prisoners at Charlotte in '06, were 6 victims of nonconsensual penetration or other 7 completed sexual acts, not just harassment or 8 body jokes. One hundred twenty of those 127 victims 9 would say that they were victimized by your staff, 10 and particularly by female staff at Charlotte. The 11 single most frequent profile of the victim would 12 be a heterosexual black male under 25 who had 13 been previously incarcerated but not raped, not 14 penetrated or otherwise abused in that -- I'm not 15 saying all of them, but the single most prevalent 16 category. None of the inmate-on-inmate victims 17 reported that, which would explain, if true, why 18 the NIS doesn't comport with the records you 19 have. Only 25 percent of the staff-on-inmate 20 victims would have reported. 21 Do you believe that survey is accurate 46 1 with respect to Charlotte? 2 WALTER MCNEIL: No, I don't. And let 3 me see if I can expand on the reasons that I 4 don't. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Please. 6 WALTER MCNEIL: Obviously, as you've 7 indicated, I've only been there six weeks. And 8 during those six weeks, I've had the opportunity 9 to spend some time with our IG's office looking 10 at our operations and how we are, in fact, trying 11 to make sure that we take care of the custody of 12 our inmates and making sure our environments are 13 free of that kind of activity. 14 I think the prevailing impression I've 15 got, and certainly I can't testify to any 16 specific things that I've seen or not seen, 17 because I haven't been to Charlotte Correctional 18 Institution, quite honestly, so I can't testify 19 to specifically what does or doesn't take place 20 there, but the documents I've had the opportunity 21 to review, and to get an understanding of close 47 1 management, I think that there are some 2 opportunities there for there to be some 3 exaggeration, if you will, of the circumstances. 4 For example, how one would define 5 sexual misconduct by our staff, when, in that 6 environment, some three times a day, potentially, 7 inmates are basically searched, and those 8 searches are intrusive, because of the nature of 9 their placement in close management, which means 10 that they are searched, they're strip-searched. 11 And if I'm an inmate in that kind of environment, 12 where they have placed themselves based on their 13 behavior, where they are being searched because 14 of the high potential they have for attacks on 15 staff, attacks on other inmates and what have 16 you, we're going through the process of making 17 sure that they don't have weapons or access to 18 weapons and other contraband, and just by the 19 very nature of that, that environment, that close 20 management, I could see where a young person 21 placed in that circumstance, who's searched three 48 1 times a day, where some parts of his body are 2 being looked at, would say, I'm being sexually 3 harassed, that I am being sexually assaulted, 4 because that's my perspective, but just based on 5 the routine procedures that take place in close 6 management. 7 That's been my perception coming in. I 8 cannot testify to you that my perception is, in 9 fact, factual, but based on the information I've 10 seen, based on my discussion with staff, I 11 believe that to be the case. 12 I will certainly share with you that -- 13 and I think this is probably -- and I really, as 14 I said to you yesterday, Mr. McFarland, 15 Chairman, I applaud the Department of Justice for 16 taking this initiative, legislatively requested 17 through the Congress, but I believe it to be 18 important. I believe the issues that we are 19 trying to get a grasp on, going to best practices, 20 trying to come up with ideas to avoid prison 21 rape, and obviously the escalation of HIV in our 49 1 nation, obviously those are all concerns that we 2 all have. So I applaud this effort. We don't 3 take exception to the fact that you're looking at 4 the State of Florida. 5 The fact that the inmates were, in 6 fact, surveyed and the results of those surveys 7 are only -- the only thing we're saying about 8 that is, we want to make sure that we're 9 comparing apples to apples, if you will. We 10 believe the inmates that we're looking at, as I 11 heard testimony on yesterday relative to those 12 persons who are in -- who are in a lesser -- I 13 want to say the State of Florida -- or the State 14 of California, had those persons who were not in 15 close management. They were medium-custody 16 facilities. I think if you were to go across the 17 state or country and look at close management 18 circumstances, you may have the same kind of 19 reporting. 20 Not to point a finger at anybody else, 21 but merely to point to the fact that I believe 50 1 that the surveying process we should do, 2 obviously I believe in that, but I believe that 3 the results of the survey, given the fact that 4 you've surveyed a close management group of 5 inmates, who are, in fact, screened in the manner 6 I described to you earlier, I think can, in fact, 7 give rise to the kind of responses that you 8 received from the survey. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, let me make 10 sure I understand, Mr. Chairman. 11 You do not believe the situation at 12 Charlotte is accurately reflected by the survey, 13 and that is because you believe that because of 14 three-time-a-day strip searches, close 15 management, at least the close management inmates 16 are going to be inclined to claim that they had 17 unwanted sexual acts involving oral, anal, and 18 vaginal penetration, hand jobs, and other 19 completed sexual acts, just because they were 20 searched in the general area? 21 Is that your testimony, sir? 51 1 WALTER MCNEIL: No. Specifically the 2 way that you've just couched that, no, because 3 you talk about the other components of that. 4 What I'm simply saying is, it's 5 conceivable, from my perspective, that those 6 persons who were involved in those, those types 7 of searches, on a routine basis, could, in fact, 8 have a perception that they are, in fact, being 9 sexually assaulted, when, in fact, all that our 10 staff is doing is going through the procedure, 11 prescribed procedure, for close management. 12 I can't -- I can't tell you why. I 13 can't speak to why the inmates made the 14 allegations. I can't sit here and tell you that 15 they are true or not true. 16 I can simply share with you that, in 17 those close management circumstances, you've got 18 inmates who are strip-searched. Their bodies are 19 exposed. They are searched in all the various 20 orifices, every body cavity. And that, to some, 21 could be described or seen as being a sexual 52 1 assault. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But you understand 3 that BJS's definition of the nonconsensual sexual 4 acts is more than touching. 5 So for -- for this theory to be correct 6 that you're describing, you're basically saying 7 that the inmates have an incentive to exaggerate 8 and to lie about it, because they resent having 9 to do strip searches? 10 They're going to lie, and say, oh, 11 yeah, I was -- I was raped, I was penetrated, in 12 some of these orifices, not just searched, patted 13 down, but I was raped? 14 WALTER MCNEIL: Yes, sir. I believe 15 that that is a potential outcome of the survey. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So 17 overreporting is what you would describe as the 18 explanation for the high incidence that were 19 reported by the NIS? 20 WALTER MCNEIL: No, sir. I would say 21 that it may be fabrication. 53 1 GEORGE SAPP: Sir, if I may, if they 2 had the evidence, I mean, if we had these 3 penetration acts taking place, and inmates had 4 forensic evidence, we would definitely know that. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, that's a 6 great -- I want to -- we want to talk about that 7 and explore that further. 8 Tell me what and how, what evidence 9 could an inmate get, and how it would be 10 sufficient for the OIG to at least investigate 11 further, let alone if it finds it more likely 12 than not there was some misconduct occurred? 13 GEORGE SAPP: Well, as you've heard, we 14 have cameras on all these rooms. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 16 GEORGE SAPP: So there'd be definitely 17 some visual evidence, I would think, in these 18 types of acts. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And let me back up 20 and just say, we're focusing, and so I may -- 21 I'll definitely be talking more to Johnson about 54 1 this, but we're focusing just on Charlotte. 2 GEORGE SAPP: Yeah. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And so, are you 4 familiar, you know, with where cameras are at 5 Charlotte, you personally? 6 GEORGE SAPP: Yes, sir. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, great. All 8 right. So go on, please. 9 GEORGE SAPP: So you can see the front 10 of all these cells and all the living areas that 11 these inmates live in. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's 24-7? 13 GEORGE SAPP: Yes, sir. And they are 14 recorded. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long are 16 those tapes kept? 17 GEORGE SAPP: At a minimum of 30 days. 18 If the inmate raises an allegation that points to 19 us that we may need to look into something 20 further, we seize those tapes and turn them over 21 to the inspector general's office and maintain 55 1 them until we complete the investigation. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And is there an 3 audio function? 4 GEORGE SAPP: No, sir. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But it would be 6 standard procedure at Charlotte in 2006 for there 7 to always be 24-7 video surveillance of all CM 8 prison cells; is that correct? 9 GEORGE SAPP: That's correct, unless we 10 had a failure of the camera system, which happens 11 from time to time. We take measures in between, 12 put a hand-held camera down there, in case we 13 have an incident. Now, it doesn't run all the 14 time, but if we have an incident, the hand-held 15 camera is used. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. And I 17 realize that Ms. Hoffman and others from the IG 18 office will talk about a specific -- the 37 19 specific incidents that you've produced from 20 Charlotte. 21 But a number of them, suffice it to 56 1 say, involve video surveillance in which they 2 showed a correctional officer indeed present at 3 or in front of the complainant's cell, and a 4 number of times says "no audio available", and we 5 didn't see -- basically, we didn't see anything. 6 Is it true that the video shows -- its 7 line of sight is down a hallway, not into each 8 cell? 9 GEORGE SAPP: They are angled, yes, 10 sir, to get the most visual that we can. So they 11 don't directly focus inside a cell. Now, they 12 may hit a few cells directly in. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 14 GEORGE SAPP: But we have multiple 15 cameras positioned to capture the entire living 16 area. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, the entire 18 living area as far as the day area and the front 19 of the doors of the cells, but on the sporadic 20 basis you would be able to see somewhat into some 21 of the cells, but not all of them; is that 57 1 correct? 2 GEORGE SAPP: Yes, sir. Very few you'd 3 be able to see actually through the window into 4 the cell. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 6 GEORGE SAPP: It's outside of cells, if 7 that will answer your question. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. So going 9 back to the original question of what kind of 10 evidence a complainant could produce, they could 11 produce the video that showed the correctional 12 officer coming to or standing in front of his 13 cell? 14 GEORGE SAPP: Yes. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Obviously his own 16 testimony, the alleged victim. 17 And are these double-bunked or 18 single-bunked in CM 1? 19 GEORGE SAPP: CM 1 is single-bunk. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So there's no 21 witness -- there's no cellie who's going to be 58 1 able to corroborate the alleged assault; is that 2 correct? 3 GEORGE SAPP: That's correct, not 4 within the cell, but there are cells close by. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And CM 2, are they 6 double-bunked or not? 7 GEORGE SAPP: Double-bunked. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And for those at CM 9 2, what is the likelihood, given your 30-some odd 10 years of experience in corrections, that a cell 11 mate is going to rat on a correctional officer in 12 an IG investigation of sexual misconduct? 13 GEORGE SAPP: Rat on a correctional 14 officer? 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is going to say, oh, 16 yeah, that's what he did; I have no dog in this 17 fight, but, yeah, he did a hand job on my dear 18 beloved cellmate? 19 GEORGE SAPP: That happens. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is that a 21 likelihood? 59 1 GEORGE SAPP: That happens. Yes, sir. 2 We also have the reverse. We do have 3 inmates who say he just got a beef with the 4 officer -- 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Right. 6 GEORGE SAPP: -- and that really didn't 7 happen. So we have both. 8 Getting at the truth in any 9 investigation is very difficult, in any kind of 10 criminal activity. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So what other 12 evidence would an inmate be able to provide? 13 GEORGE SAPP: Well, if there was 14 another staff member nearby, we have had other 15 staff members verify some of these statements, 16 probably not at Charlotte, but other facilities. 17 If there was a nurse or some other classification 18 officer in the building, we've had those 19 corroborate some of these statements. 20 If you're talking about all the verbal 21 exchange, there's very little other evidence that 60 1 would come into play, other than other 2 witnesses hearing an officer make some type of 3 statement to an inmate. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Sapp, are you 5 aware, with respect to Charlotte, of any 6 allegation of staff sexual misconduct that was 7 corroborated at Charlotte by another correctional 8 officer? 9 GEORGE SAPP: No, sir, not off the top 10 of my head. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So -- 12 GEORGE SAPP: Ms. Hoffman may know 13 that. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Your testimony was 15 just responsive to my question in theory, what 16 evidence might be available. 17 And you're saying, well, theoretically, 18 another correctional officer or a nurse walking 19 by might have heard something or not heard 20 something? 21 GEORGE SAPP: Correct. 61 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So unless there's 2 another correctional officer around, unless the 3 video camera happens to be covering an act that's 4 alleged to have been right in front of the 5 camera, in front of the cell, and unless -- and 6 in the case of CM 1, there's not going to be 7 another cellmate to corroborate, is there any 8 other evidence that an inmate complaining of anal 9 or vaginal penetration or some other completed 10 sexual act perpetrated on him by an officer would 11 be able to produce? 12 GEORGE SAPP: Yes, if you're talking 13 about that act itself. 14 I thought you were referring to just 15 verbal exchanges before. 16 There would be -- there would have to 17 be some type of contact, where the officer would 18 have to enter the cell. The flat would have to 19 be opened for the officer to reach in or the 20 inmate to reach out. If there was a body fluid 21 exchange, there would be that evidence. There 62 1 could be hair samples, if there's that evidence. 2 There are forensic evidence we would be able to 3 collect in those acts of penetration. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And we wouldn't be 5 able to see on the video anything that had gone 6 on in the cell? 7 Again, you've already testified to 8 that; is that correct? 9 GEORGE SAPP: More than likely not, 10 sir. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 12 GEORGE SAPP: But you would be able to 13 see the entering or exiting of the inmate. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. Yeah. And 15 there are a number of incidents like that where 16 it confirms an entry by a correctional officer. 17 You just can't see what, if anything, happened. 18 GEORGE SAPP: Most all of our issues 19 that we deal with in close management, the inmate 20 is searched in the cell prior to the door being 21 opened. And when he's taken out, the officer 63 1 never really actually enters the cell. The 2 inmate comes out. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. 4 GEORGE SAPP: The inmate is taken out 5 of the cell before the officer normally goes in 6 to do any type of search, and stands at the cell 7 door outside the cell. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 9 GEORGE SAPP: So that you don't have 10 the officer and the inmate in the cell together. 11 And there's always two officers there present 12 when this occurs. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. Well, 14 that's helpful. 15 And that's true of any CM, 1, 2, or 3, 16 two officers? 17 GEORGE SAPP: Not CM 3, sir. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Not CM 3. 19 GEORGE SAPP: Those are more -- they're 20 lowest restrictive, and they are handled with 21 less security precautions that CM 1 or 2. 64 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So would you 2 consider it breach of protocol for a CO to enter 3 a cellmate -- a cell? 4 GEORGE SAPP: Correct. And we 5 discipline staff for opening the cell, even 6 though they don't enter, if they even open a cell 7 without the second officer present at the cell 8 door. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you know of a 10 single instance in which a staff member was 11 alleged to have been -- to have entered in a cell 12 out of the visual video surveillance in a CM door 13 at Charlotte? 14 GEORGE SAPP: Not at Charlotte. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So if some of the 37 16 instances produced by the OIG indicate that a CO 17 went into the cell rather than ordering the 18 inmate out to strip -- when he's strip-searched, 19 that would be a breach of protocol at Charlotte; 20 is that correct? 21 GEORGE SAPP: No, sir, not in all 65 1 circumstances. If they followed all the 2 procedures, they had two officers present, the 3 inmate refused to come out, they had to go in and 4 get him, you would do that kind of thing. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sure. 6 GEORGE SAPP: The inmate may have some 7 medical issue that they have to go in and help 8 him out. We have those instances. 9 But as a general purpose, the officers 10 usually direct the inmate, at some distance, to 11 keep, you know, safety zones between them and the 12 inmate, and bring the inmate out. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So as far as the 14 video is concerned, if you see a CO go into a 15 cell, he better be dragging somebody out with him 16 or -- or calling for medical attention to -- for 17 somebody else to come in and help a sick inmate; 18 is that correct? 19 GEORGE SAPP: Well, no, sir, not in 20 every circumstance. Hopefully they wouldn't be 21 dragging him out. Hopefully they're going into 66 1 the cell for normal operational issues. 2 Hopefully there's no problem. If the inmate 3 just -- if the officers choose to go into the 4 cell, they're both in there together going in to 5 search the cell, and they direct the inmate to 6 come out at the same time, you know, there may be 7 a point in time where the officers could enter 8 the cell or not. 9 What we usually get into in these 10 things is where the inmate makes an allegation, 11 and then we find the officer had no reason to go 12 into the cell. And the video will depict that 13 the officer shouldn't have went in there. There 14 was no reason. There wasn't a second officer 15 present, wasn't for showers, wasn't for 16 searching. 17 Who did the door roll? 18 Who opened the door? 19 Why did you go into the cell? 20 That's how we get into those types of 21 investigations. 67 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And are you aware of 2 any such investigation at Charlotte? 3 GEORGE SAPP: No, sir. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Secretary, going 5 back to the NIS, National Inmate Survey, 6 indicates that 36 different inmates filed 37 7 charges of sexual harassment, almost all of them 8 against correctional officers. Ten of the 37 9 charges were lodged against just three 10 correctional officers. One of the COs had no 11 less than four sexual harassment charges by four 12 different inmates at Charlotte. Two had three. 13 Two correctional officers had three different 14 charges against them. Six officers had more than 15 one charge. Only two of the 37 were by the same 16 prisoner. So this isn't somebody who has too 17 much time on their hands just filling out 18 grievance slips. 19 Does that seem odd to you, and does 20 that raise concerns for you about the culture at 21 Charlotte? 68 1 WALTER MCNEIL: Yes. Anytime you would 2 have any excessive number of complaints by any of 3 our corrections officers in one of our 4 institutions, obviously I'm concerned about it. 5 I want to make sure we get to the bottom of it 6 to see exactly what's going on, to see if 7 they're -- as I said to the IG's office, I'm very 8 focused on trying to do what I call early 9 warning, where we can figure out if there are a 10 pattern of behavior that need to be addressed. 11 I am not specifically aware of the 12 corrections officers you're making reference to, 13 so I can't really speak to those six individuals 14 and exactly where they are, and what happened, 15 and how the investigation proceeds. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You indicated you 17 had not yet been to Charlotte, in the six weeks 18 since you've been in your position? 19 WALTER MCNEIL: That is correct. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How long have you 21 been aware of the results of the NIS, naming 69 1 Charlotte one of the 10 with the highest 2 incidence? 3 WALTER MCNEIL: I actually became aware 4 when I received a letter from the Department of 5 Justice asking that I come and testify. I had 6 been provided with the survey document itself, 7 but quite honestly had not read it in depth, 8 having the understanding that we were the focus 9 of a great deal of that survey, so about two, 10 three weeks. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. You have 12 plans to -- do you think that the statistics, the 13 number of allegations against so many officers at 14 Charlotte, does that -- is that a high enough 15 level or pattern, as you just said, to justify 16 some action on your part, immediate action on 17 your part? 18 WALTER MCNEIL: Mr. Chairman, quite 19 honestly, the fact that we are here, and I'm 20 spending a great deal of my time talking about 21 this issue, really raises it to a level that I 70 1 would certainly spend more time looking at 2 exactly what's going on. 3 I think the -- as I said at the very 4 outset, I think the most salient aspect of this 5 for me is to continue to hear and to get the 6 transcripts of these Panel hearings from all 7 various departments across the state, and for us 8 to then sit down and look at those and see, and I 9 hope which is one of the desired outcomes here, 10 is to look at best practices. And certainly, I 11 believe that not only in our Charlotte 12 Correctional Institution, but in all of our 13 facilities, there's opportunities for us to 14 improve. And I'm going to be looking at ways if 15 we can certainly improve upon that. 16 But specifically as it relates to 17 what's -- what's wrong or not wrong with 18 Charlotte, I really don't know. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, what is your 20 plan of action, if any, for investigating what is 21 or isn't happening at Charlotte? 71 1 Do you have a plan at this point, other 2 than reviewing the transcript? 3 WALTER MCNEIL: No. I do not. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. Who on 5 your staff will have or has primary 6 responsibility, if anyone, for investigating 7 whether there is a serious problem at Charlotte 8 and rectifying it? 9 Where would the buck stop? 10 I know ultimately with you, but who are 11 you looking to? 12 Whose job description now is to find 13 out if this is just overreporting or if we have a 14 real culture problem at Charlotte? 15 WALTER MCNEIL: Well, that job falls to 16 the young man sitting to my left, Mr. George 17 Sapp, who's the assistant secretary of 18 institutions, working with our IG's office. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And Mr. Upchurch, 20 how is the -- what is the relationship, just so 21 we know who's doing what? 72 1 What's the organizational relationship 2 among the three of you? 3 Obviously, the two of them report to 4 you. 5 Mr. Upchurch, do you report to 6 Mr. Sapp? 7 JAMES UPCHURCH: Through an assistant, 8 the deputy assistant secretary, yes. 9 If I could comment? 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Please. 11 JAMES UPCHURCH: I do so hesitantly. 12 Based on my 37 years experience, and 13 I've had the opportunity in a variety of settings 14 to visit a number of other states and do work 15 with the National Institute of Corrections, and 16 actually visit, spend a lot of time, at the 17 various institutions. And having had the 18 opportunity to operate the supermax unit in 19 Arizona, open and operate it, if I had been 20 presented with numbers such as the ones that have 21 come out of Charlotte, and the numbers were very 73 1 low, I would have been more concerned and 2 suspicious as to why the numbers were so low as 3 opposed to what I would expect to be a high 4 number of anonymously-filed complaints by this 5 particular population that would serve as a 6 vehicle to embarrass and strike out at the staff, 7 who, on a daily basis, are required to handcuff 8 them, escort them everywhere they can, take -- 9 restrict their movement, their activities, their 10 privilege access, et cetera. And the fact that 11 this same population has been accustomed, in a 12 more open setting, to venting their anger and 13 their distaste for people who restrict what they 14 can and can't do, in a more open and aggressive 15 manner, I would be surprised if that number were 16 low instead of what it is today. 17 Now, I cannot categorically, nor 18 anybody else, say that there are not instances 19 where what's reported has occurred, but I think 20 consistent with the other measures of how 21 these -- this particular population addresses 74 1 those who are responsible for restricting their 2 movements and ensuring that this restrictive 3 environment is carried out, such as the number of 4 grievances that are filed, number of grievances 5 filed against staff, is exponentially greater by 6 this population. The number of disciplinary 7 reports that the population, not just in 8 Charlotte, but in all our close management units, 9 and in the unit that I ran when I was warden at 10 supermax unit in Arizona, the number of 11 grievances filed complaining against staff, the 12 number of grievances filed about institutional 13 operations, is exponentially greater than it is 14 in the general population setting. 15 I think all of these things contribute. 16 To any corrections professional with tenure 17 saying that the expectation that the population 18 such as you find at Charlotte would, to a certain 19 extent, make complaints that are not valid, I 20 think they would verify that that would be 21 expected. 75 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. And from your 2 many years of experience in corrections, 3 Mr. Upchurch, would it be fair to say that 4 correctional officers don't appreciate having 5 inmates file grievances against them? 6 JAMES UPCHURCH: When you work in that 7 atmosphere, supermax-type or close management 8 segregation atmosphere, you become accustomed to 9 inmates filing complaints about you. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But my question is, 11 do they enjoy it, or do they resent it? 12 JAMES UPCHURCH: I'm sure they don't 13 enjoy it, and I'm sure that it is a concern to 14 them that people complain about when they try to 15 do their job. But as I say, it's something that 16 you get accustomed to. 17 Just as when I was a warden, I received 18 a tremendous number of grievances and complaints 19 from the segregation unit population compared to 20 a more open population where the relationship 21 between the staff and the inmates is much more 76 1 casual or cordial, so to speak, because they 2 don't have to confront them as often. They're 3 not as involved in discipline, because these 4 inmates are generally following the rules, they 5 know what the expectations are, and they comply. 6 And the officer's role is supervisory, and there 7 are very few occasions, actually, in a medium, 8 minimum-type facility where there is 9 confrontation by the staff with the inmates. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Mr. Sapp, do you 11 generally agree with Mr. Upchurch in your 12 thoughts about the high numbers reported by the 13 study? 14 GEORGE SAPP: Yes, I do. I've worked 15 in these units myself, and I have experienced the 16 same issues that Mr. Upchurch is talking about. 17 I've been a warden in this system, warden in 18 another system, warden in the Florida State 19 Prison, one of our supermax, for lack of a 20 better term, in Florida, and experienced the same 21 type of inmate behavior, retaliation, as they see 77 1 it, back to the officers who write them 2 disciplinary reports, who enforce the rules and 3 make them comply with the regulations that we 4 have in these housing units. And it's their -- 5 their way of trying to strike back at an 6 officer. 7 But we do ensure, though, that every 8 inmate has that opportunity. We take all the 9 steps necessary. One of the biggest things that 10 we guard against is inmates alleging to us that 11 their grievance was not heard, their grievance 12 was not received, their grievance was trashed by 13 an officer. We take great pains to make sure 14 that the inmate has that ability. 15 That's why the numbers, to me, look a 16 little skewed, because the inmates will have 17 every opportunity to report to us the same 18 allegations that were reported in this anonymous 19 survey. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So both of you have 21 been wardens in a supermax facility in different 78 1 states? 2 GEORGE SAPP: Yes. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And isn't it true 4 that while inmates have the opportunity to file 5 as many grievances as they wish, that correction 6 officers don't appreciate that it's more 7 paperwork for them, it doesn't exactly flatter 8 them when they're the subject of numerous 9 grievances, it's not going to enhance their 10 career, and it could engender, frequently does 11 engender, some resentment in the relationship 12 with that inmate. Is that a fair description in 13 your experience? 14 GEORGE SAPP: The only thing I would 15 disagree with, sir, about their career. 16 Officers -- or perception of that does not affect 17 his career, unless he does something that is 18 against the rules. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. If there's a 20 pattern, if the same officer is accused of making 21 the same lewd comments time after time, within 79 1 the same year, to different inmates, and he has a 2 reputation, according to those grievance, those 3 complainants, of making sexually derogatory 4 jokes, monikers, proposals, does that -- is it 5 your testimony that that's just standard 6 operating procedure, doesn't raise any concerns 7 for any superiors, and should not trigger any 8 additional or special investigation as to whether 9 there might be some truth to some of these 10 allegations? 11 GEORGE SAPP: No, sir. We would 12 definitely do that. We would go through those 13 steps, but unless something is found to 14 substantiate it, it would not affect the 15 officer's career. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. 17 GEORGE SAPP: We have early warning 18 systems. With the IG's office, they send us, 19 send me, notification of potentially officers, 20 just as you're describing, that have had some 21 multiple allegations of making these types of 80 1 comments or excessive force or physical abuse. I 2 study those. I talk to the regional directors. 3 And I send them to the wardens, and we look at 4 those officers' behavior on shift very closely. 5 And if we find that there is some validity to any 6 of those allegations, then we take the 7 appropriate action of that individual. 8 But those that do not, that are 9 unsubstantiated, we don't let it affect the 10 officer's career. 11 JAMES UPCHURCH: We also, as a matter 12 of course, and we do this more frequently as 13 necessary, have a process at our segregation 14 units where, every 18 months, all the officers 15 are evaluated to determine if there's any signs 16 of stress, any difficulties. Their supervisors, 17 the warden, the chief, all these people are 18 looking at those officers, talking to them, and 19 if there's any indication that they are 20 succumbing to the stress and the pressures of 21 that environment, then they're transferred. 81 1 They're moved. We're aware of the difficulties, 2 as I said in my statement, in this kind of an 3 environment. 4 But I guess the only thing that I'm 5 saying is, is that in terms of the significance 6 of the reported percentage with this population, 7 I think it should be considered in light of the 8 characteristics of that population. And I 9 believe if you looked at the other institutions 10 in Florida compared to similar institutions 11 around the country, you don't find those levels 12 in any of those facilities. And if you look at 13 the list of institutions from other states around 14 the country, and look at those that have high 15 concentrations of maximum-security, 16 segregation-type populations, difficult to manage 17 populations of inmates, the numbers are higher. 18 If you look at the list of the top highest 19 institutions there, not consistent in every case, 20 and analyzed them in the context of the type of 21 inmates that are housed there, and compare those 82 1 with the lower institutions on your list, I think 2 you'll determine that the characteristics of 3 those populations, there is some correlation. 4 Now, it's not exact. I can remember in 5 the lower category there's one example, I 6 believe, of a max facility, but I would wonder 7 how that occurred. 8 I just -- just think that it's 9 something that should be considered in analyzing 10 the data that's been received. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is there any 12 means -- you just mentioned every 18 months all 13 the COs in the CM facilities are evaluated, or 14 is it all COs every 18 months? 15 JAMES UPCHURCH: It's specifically in 16 the close management facilities and confinement 17 units. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Now, what would 19 happen if one of those COs said, I have -- I'm 20 developing an exceptional repulsion, revulsion, 21 towards inmate such-and-such, and I'm beginning 83 1 to really not enjoy coming to work, and, you 2 know, if he throws urine on me one more time, I 3 don't know, I just might lose it? 4 What would be the response, or should 5 be the response, of management to him? 6 JAMES UPCHURCH: Well, it would be 7 individually considered, individual case, but 8 there are a number of options. You could move. 9 For example, in Charlotte, there are five 10 separate housing units that house close 11 management inmates at various levels. They could 12 move officers from one housing unit to another, 13 and you would never have occasion to be there. 14 If the officer's aversion to the job 15 was such that he just didn't like working in that 16 sort of a stressful environment, we could move 17 him to an open, more open setting, and would do 18 that. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And would you 20 consider that to be complimentary -- I mean, 21 would that be a good thing for him, for his 84 1 career, or possibly damaging to his career, that 2 he made such a confession? 3 JAMES UPCHURCH: It wouldn't affect his 4 career either way. It would be -- we would 5 appreciate his honesty. We would prefer that the 6 staff person come forward and tell us that 7 they're having those problems before they act on 8 them. And having worked in one location or 9 another is not a career issue, in that case. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Were you here 11 yesterday afternoon? 12 JAMES UPCHURCH: No, sir. I was 13 running. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: There was 15 testimony -- I asked the same question of other 16 correctional professionals. And if I recall 17 correctly, their answer was, a warden said, I'd 18 be real concerned about the competence of an 19 individual; we'd need to reevaluate his future in 20 this profession, and at least in my facility, if 21 he had a personal revulsion or attraction. 85 1 I didn't ask you about attraction -- 2 JAMES UPCHURCH: You didn't. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: -- towards an 4 inmate. 5 JAMES UPCHURCH: I assumed the 6 revulsion you were talking about is just perhaps 7 a personality conflict or just -- 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Chemistry. 9 JAMES UPCHURCH: -- you know, just 10 didn't like each other, couldn't get along. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's right. 12 JAMES UPCHURCH: I don't think the fact 13 that we would take that officer and move him to a 14 different dormitory to not have him work around 15 that particular inmate, I would not see that in 16 any way having any negative impact on that 17 officer's career. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about if the 19 individual, if I asked the other hypothetical, 20 and that is, comes to the 18-month evaluation and 21 says, you know, I'm on "E" dorm, fourth quad, and 86 1 I -- I got to tell you I have an attraction, as a 2 woman, to this particular inmate, and it's 3 probably not -- it's probably affecting my 4 professional judgment. 5 What would be the response to that? 6 JAMES UPCHURCH: Well, there's several 7 options. Again, there's the retraining option. 8 We have some very good training courses on inmate 9 manipulation, interaction between staff and 10 inmates. There's also we have an option of 11 referring her for mental health, possible 12 psychological counseling, or something like that, 13 if we feel like that might be indicated. We have 14 the option of moving her to another location. 15 There's a variety of different circumstances that 16 would have to be considered on an individual 17 basis. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 19 JAMES UPCHURCH: Because obviously, we 20 couldn't treat them all the same. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. So if you 87 1 have a personal revulsion towards a close 2 management inmate, there are no repercussions, 3 bad repercussions to your future. You'd just be 4 reassigned, no problem. 5 If you had an attraction to a close 6 management inmate, you may need to see the 7 shrink, you may get transferred, or you need to 8 get reprogrammed; is that what you're saying? 9 JAMES UPCHURCH: We don't refer to it 10 as a shrink, but we do have -- 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mental health? 12 JAMES UPCHURCH: We do have a program 13 where any staff person can avail themselves of 14 counseling or assistance, if they feel it's 15 appropriate. And if a staff person who's trying 16 to -- wants to work, and wants to keep the job, 17 is having a problem that obviously could 18 interfere with their abilities to maintain and 19 keep that job and progress as they wish to, then 20 a referral to talk to someone about that issue 21 might be appropriate. That was one of the 88 1 options that I discussed. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you consider a 3 confession of attraction, sexual in nature, being 4 confessed by the CO, to be -- to be a negative 5 aspect on that person's employment career? 6 JAMES UPCHURCH: It would be something 7 that would need to be looked at. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is that a yes? 9 JAMES UPCHURCH: Not necessarily, no, 10 sir. I can't -- we're categorically talking 11 about a situation that -- we're talking about 12 individual officers, and the situations could be 13 different, could be different. I don't think it 14 would necessarily impede that person's progress 15 within a department or harm their employment. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But he or she is 17 going to need to get retrained? 18 JAMES UPCHURCH: Possibly. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Possibly reassigned? 20 JAMES UPCHURCH: Possibly. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Possibly given 89 1 mental health assistance? 2 JAMES UPCHURCH: Possibly. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When they confess 4 that they have a revulsion to an individual -- 5 JAMES UPCHURCH: Right. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: -- no mental health 7 needs, you don't need any retraining, we 8 appreciate your candor, we actually think it's a 9 positive that you came forward; is that your 10 testimony? 11 JAMES UPCHURCH: Possibly, they could 12 be referred for mental health just as the other 13 one was. It depends on the circumstance and how 14 that individual -- what they present with, what 15 they tell us is the problem. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, your 17 experience at supermax, you've indicated that 18 these folks are the bad eggs, all in one basket. 19 The COs have to put up with a higher number of 20 grievances and complaints, everything from my 21 food was cold to he raped me. 90 1 Is that fair? 2 Is that your testimony? 3 You're going to get a lot of complaints 4 from these close management inmates? 5 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes. You get a lot of 6 complaints from them. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So is it all that 8 extraordinary? 9 Why would a correctional officer who 10 says, you know, I really am really tired of 11 getting grievances from inmate number "X"; I'm 12 really tired of having feces thrown at me; he has 13 a real bad mouth; and with his life term, he 14 doesn't give a rip about discipline; he's going 15 to be here, you know, a long time anyway; I'm 16 about to lose it; I'm about to see that guy fall 17 down a stairwell outside the video cameras; you 18 know, you got to help me here -- and it's your 19 testimony that there's no mental health problem 20 here? 21 This is just, thank you for your 91 1 candor; we'll move you to the "B" wing? 2 JAMES UPCHURCH: Sir, with all due 3 respect, your descriptions of the conversations 4 of the officers changed dramatically in this last 5 description. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 7 JAMES UPCHURCH: A person that's acting 8 out and doing the things that you described at 9 the end would likely be a candidate for some 10 referral for assistance, would likely be a 11 candidate for retraining or counseling, or 12 possibly even movement to another location. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So what was the key 14 element that I changed? 15 JAMES UPCHURCH: The key, the key was 16 is that you -- you described it in much more 17 graphic, much more disturbing. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The threat of 19 violence? 20 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. 92 1 JAMES UPCHURCH: As opposed to an 2 officer who just couldn't get along with 3 somebody. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I just hate this 5 guy, and I don't enjoy going to work? 6 JAMES UPCHURCH: Big difference, big 7 difference in those. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I have some 9 questions. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Mr. Sapp, I would 12 assume that this report is widely known through 13 the staff at the Charlotte facility and people 14 are aware of these numbers? 15 GEORGE SAPP: I would assume so, too. 16 Yes, ma'am. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What has been their 18 reaction? 19 What was been the impact of these high 20 numbers on staff morale? 21 What are people saying in the trenches? 93 1 Are they appalled? 2 Are they surprised? 3 Are they insulted? 4 What are you hearing? 5 GEORGE SAPP: Well, I've not actually 6 spoken to anybody actually on the line there. 7 Now, you have staff here that will be 8 able to probably speak to that from the 9 institution itself. 10 But as you heard from Mr. Upchurch and 11 myself, most of us that work in these 12 environments do expect this kind of behavior from 13 these inmates. We do expect inmates to write 14 false allegations. We expect them to do -- do 15 anything they can do to retaliate against an 16 officer if they -- if they feel like they need 17 to. 18 As we discussed, it's not a pleasurable 19 thing for officers to go through. It does have 20 an effect on morale at times, and that's why we 21 monitor the staff so very closely, and see if 94 1 there is enough stressors there to move that 2 individual to another post outside of that very 3 high stressful area. So I'm sure that the 4 numbers have affected the staff of the 5 institution somewhat. 6 But to be honest, it's not unexpected 7 by myself or the staff there at the institution 8 that inmates would make these kinds of 9 allegations, as we see them, as basically false 10 allegations, because we really don't have 11 anything to back up the numbers that were 12 displayed in the findings. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do various 14 institutions have a reputation? 15 Would you say that certain facilities 16 have a reputation for one thing; others have a 17 reputation for something else? 18 Is there anything that you can tell us 19 about Charlotte's reputation across the board 20 over the years? 21 What do people say generally about that 95 1 facility? 2 That it's tough? 3 That there's corruption there? 4 What do they say? 5 And setting aside the fact that this is 6 an institution where there are very serious 7 offenders, what do people generally say? 8 Has there been reports in the news 9 about the history there? 10 Has there been a stigma associated with 11 this particular institution in any way? 12 GEORGE SAPP: Charlotte has always been 13 a very tough institution. It's always been one 14 of our higher security institutions, with some of 15 our most difficult inmates. And when you put the 16 close management component into any facility, it 17 would have the reputation as a very tough 18 institution because of the environment the staff 19 have to work in. 20 There's not been any news items 21 recently about Charlotte that I'm aware of. 96 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Have there ever 2 been any exposes on conduct there, anything of 3 that nature? 4 GEORGE SAPP: Well, we had an officer 5 murdered there a few years back, in 2003, that 6 gained a lot of notoriety, as we were converting 7 that facility to some close management 8 dormitories. And that was an incident that was 9 very highly publicized, and the fact that she was 10 murdered by three or four inmates there at that 11 facility. So that was one big incident, which 12 was very tough on the staff there. They lost one 13 of their own. It was a very hard thing for the 14 staff to go through. It was very tough on the 15 department, and of course, the family members of 16 the victim. It was very tough for all of us. So 17 that is probably the biggest event that I can 18 think of in recent years at Charlotte 19 Correctional Institution. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Now, Mr. McNeil, I 21 know you certainly have shared your intentions as 97 1 you get on board in your new position. 2 Is there anything else that you want 3 the Panel to know about your vision for this -- 4 for this particular institution, given the 5 numbers that we're all concerned about, and we're 6 looking at, and grappling with? 7 And certainly, we'll be talking more 8 with some of the other folks that you've brought 9 along about specifics, as far as the culture is 10 concerned. 11 But is there anything else you would 12 like to share with us about your vision? 13 WALTER MCNEIL: Well, Madam Chair, 14 first of all, the institution at Charlotte, as 15 described by Mr. Sapp, is a tough institution. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Granted. 17 WALTER MCNEIL: We obviously are going 18 to look at the issues of close management. I am 19 waiting to hear from the results of your 20 deliberations and whatever products you've 21 produced as a part of your review of our 98 1 institution. I plan to spend some time in 2 Charlotte personally on the ground seeing exactly 3 how close management works and what happens with 4 the various inmates that we come in contact with. 5 I believe that it is always our goal, 6 and I think this to be true of Secretary 7 McDonough who preceded me in this department, 8 we are working towards making sure that we have a 9 culture that is always professional. There is 10 something that Secretary McDonough put in place 11 that continues to be the rallying point for 12 employees in the department. It's called a code 13 of conduct, built from the military model, if you 14 will, that delineates and prescribes to every 15 employee the kind of behavior that we expect as 16 they interact with inmates. We're going to make 17 sure we continue to push forward that agenda in 18 terms of what some would say, historically, about 19 all corrections institutions around our nation, 20 one that they are lock-'em-up-and-throw-away-the- 21 key kind of mentality, that there is a degree of 99 1 punishment beyond the fact that the persons are 2 there serving their sentence, and that there are 3 some degree of inhumane treatment of prisoners in 4 prisons in America. I don't believe that the 5 State of Florida escapes that kind of perception 6 that many have of prison life, generally 7 speaking, and we are going to work and do all 8 that we can to make sure that we are not a part 9 of that stereotypical way people look at prisons. 10 And the way I believe that we do that 11 is to make sure that we are taking the 12 appropriate actions, when we find instances of 13 misconduct, that we deal with those quickly and 14 appropriately. We're going to continue to work 15 in that regard. 16 I believe that our institutions, 17 particularly Charlotte, as I said, we will get 18 there, get on the ground, meet with staff, make 19 some evaluation, talk to people, do our own 20 survey, if you will, of the inmates to kind of 21 see where things are from that perspective, 100 1 working with our IG's office to kind of see 2 what's going on, what the perceptions are. 3 And I say that, and I want to preface 4 that with these final remarks about that: My 5 intuitive perspective on this is that anytime you 6 have that kind of survey that comes out with 7 those kind of numbers that get broadcast 8 nationally, intuitively I know that we have to 9 step forward and start looking at it, and trying 10 to address whether it's real or imagined. 11 Whether the allegations made by the inmates were 12 fabricated or not, we have a responsibility to 13 respond and try to respond in an appropriate 14 manner. And that's what I'm set out to do. 15 And we're going to do that in large 16 part based on my historical perspective, on 17 dealing with employee misconduct, also from a 18 perspective that I think the department has 19 embraced, which is adhering to a code of conduct 20 which says that all of these kind of behaviors 21 that have been alleged are way outside of the 101 1 boundary of being professional; and then lastly, 2 to utilize the information that we can gather 3 from your deliberations and other deliberations 4 of other correctional institutions; that I reach 5 out to my colleagues in other states who have 6 similarly-situated facilities, that are 7 experiencing the same kind of outcomes, if you 8 will, that were illuminated in the report. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Just a couple of 10 quick questions, then I want to take a break. 11 Mr. Sapp, is -- do you hire anyone in 12 any of your institutions who is not a graduate of 13 the correction officer academy, of some academy? 14 GEORGE SAPP: Eventually, sir, they are 15 certified, but we do hire, and then it takes a 16 period of time for them to go through the 17 academy. At that point, they're called a 18 temporary employment applicant, and they have a 19 certain time limit before they expire to get them 20 through the correction officer training academy 21 to become certified. So to begin with, there are 102 1 officers that are not certified that work in our 2 institutions, but they work under the direct 3 supervision of another officer, and they have to 4 stay in a very limited number of jobs while 5 they're in that status until they are trained. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I am assuming that 7 among the limited jobs that a trainee who is not 8 yet certified by an academy, it would not include 9 close management? 10 GEORGE SAPP: No, sir. We do work them 11 in close management units, in direct supervision 12 of another officer. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you could have a 14 noncertified correctional officer in CM 1 at 15 Charlotte, who has not graduated from a police 16 academy -- or a CO academy? 17 GEORGE SAPP: Yes, sir, in limited 18 capacities in certain jobs in that unit. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: CM 1? 20 GEORGE SAPP: In a close management 21 unit, which has -- most of them has different 103 1 levels in there. They have more than one level 2 in that unit itself. Some are CM 1s. Some are 3 CM 2s. It depends on how the physical 4 construction is designed. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Could Charlotte have 6 a correctional officer who was not enrolled in 7 the CO academy working in a CM unit? 8 GEORGE SAPP: The word "enrolled" sir, 9 is a little bit difficult for me to answer. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Taking any classes 11 at the time, simultaneous with his work on the CM 12 unit? 13 GEORGE SAPP: Yes, sir. That does 14 happen. Officers may work three or four months 15 before they actually get into the school. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 17 GEORGE SAPP: And that's in all our 18 institutions. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So at one of these, 20 this is not a hypothetical, and I'll ask 21 Ms. Hoffman and Warden Johnson about it, but it 104 1 would not be unusual for an officer to not -- 2 have not attended the CO academy, not be a 3 certified officer, and yet be on a close 4 management unit, and be accused of sexual 5 misconduct or harassment by an inmate, and be 6 allowed to resign the same day without further 7 investigation? 8 That would not be beyond the realm of 9 possibility? 10 GEORGE SAPP: That is correct, sir. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh. Is the training 12 for COs who are going to work in close 13 management any different than the training for 14 any other CO, Mr. Upchurch? 15 JAMES UPCHURCH: They have some special 16 trainings that they receive. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: They do? 18 JAMES UPCHURCH: Confinement training, 19 they have some in recognizing suicidal inmates, 20 recognizing and dealing with mental health 21 issues. 105 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Any other special 2 training to work on the CO unit? 3 JAMES UPCHURCH: None that I can think 4 of. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Any particularly 6 related to sexual assault, sexual harassment, 7 boundary problems of inmates? 8 JAMES UPCHURCH: No. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Any special 10 training with respect to cross-gender interaction 11 between a female CO and a CM male inmate? 12 JAMES UPCHURCH: No, sir. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No special training? 14 JAMES UPCHURCH: However, we do have 15 certain gender-specific requirements. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But everybody gets 17 that? 18 JAMES UPCHURCH: Well, I mean -- 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, I'm sorry. Go 20 ahead. 21 JAMES UPCHURCH: What I'm talking about 106 1 is in term of officer assignments. Those posts 2 that involve the strip searches that were 3 referenced are specifically for like-gender 4 officers, both in male and female institutions. 5 And we pay particular attention to that in 6 close management, because of the routineness of 7 strip searches. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So no female CO is 9 going to be involved in strip searching a CM 10 inmate, a male inmate? 11 JAMES UPCHURCH: Absolutely not, 12 anywhere in the department. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And vice versa? 14 JAMES UPCHURCH: And vice versa. In 15 fact, they're not -- the privacy concerns 16 involved in that are strictly enforced. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And Charlotte is an 18 all-male facility? 19 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And so there are no 21 female staff working in any CM unit in Charlotte? 107 1 JAMES UPCHURCH: No. That's not -- 2 there are females who could be working in the 3 control room areas, where you can't actually see 4 the strip search. You can see the cell door. 5 They're the ones that are responsible for opening 6 the doors to the cells. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 8 JAMES UPCHURCH: They can work in 9 there. They can work in certain support 10 functions. They can deliver hygiene items. They 11 can do other types of activities. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Nurse, a nurse could 13 be on the floor? 14 JAMES UPCHURCH: Nurse, yes, a nurse, 15 that kind of stuff. 16 But as far as the routine performance 17 of strip searches and being involved in those 18 kind of activities, and directly observing an 19 inmate taking a shower, that kind -- they don't 20 do that, not allowed. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And I think your 108 1 testimony earlier was that you never have direct 2 contact with a CM 1 inmate without two COs being 3 present; is that correct? 4 JAMES UPCHURCH: No, sir. I think 5 my -- to open the door. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: To open the door, I 7 meant. Yeah. 8 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes. To let them out. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Right. 10 JAMES UPCHURCH: There's always two 11 officers at the door. 12 Once the -- once the door is open, the 13 inmates have been strip-searched, the doors open, 14 the restraints have been applied, the two 15 officers stand there. One will inspect the 16 restraints to make sure they're securely in 17 place. And then for an escort purpose, to take 18 him out, say, to the exercise area, one officer 19 can take him. 20 But there's two every time the door is 21 opened until they're out in the open. 109 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But every time the 2 door is opened, there's a strip search? 3 JAMES UPCHURCH: If they're going 4 outside of the building. If they're going, for 5 example, from their cell to the shower area, 6 which is in the building, from the cell to a 7 group counseling area, which is located in a 8 common area of the building, then they're not 9 strip-searched, but they are strip-searched 10 whenever they exit the building. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So a female 12 correctional officer is never going to be one of 13 those two officers when -- when the strip search 14 is going to occur? 15 JAMES UPCHURCH: She -- I'm not going 16 to say that she can't be. She would have to 17 stand away from the door. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, she's going to 19 keep an eye on what's going on? 20 JAMES UPCHURCH: Well, she should, so 21 most likely they can't. If they got in a bind 110 1 where they had to have a female and male there, 2 the male would stand at the door and look through 3 the little window and observe the strip search, 4 and the female could stand to the side. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: They wouldn't even 6 open the door in the strip search? 7 JAMES UPCHURCH: No. No. No, sir. 8 They don't. The inmate hands his clothing out 9 through the food trap. The clothing is inspected 10 and handed back to him. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So the strip search 12 is through -- is through a closed door, observed? 13 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes. Yes, sir. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. So I'm 15 confused about the earlier testimony that much of 16 the overreporting that might explain the high 17 incidence of staff sexual misconduct is because 18 these folks are constantly being touched in strip 19 searches in these sensitive areas. 20 JAMES UPCHURCH: I'm not sure he said 21 touched. I believe what he said was they were 111 1 observed. We don't -- 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Observed. 3 JAMES UPCHURCH: Even when we do strip 4 searches in other institutions, where the inmates 5 are actually right there with the officer, they 6 don't touch them. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. 8 JAMES UPCHURCH: There's no digital 9 touches or any of that involved. It's all 10 visual. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So a female CO could 12 be in a CM 1 unit and could be observing a strip 13 search? 14 JAMES UPCHURCH: No. No, sir. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It would just be the 16 male looking through the window? 17 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The other female is 19 observing the process, but not able to see the 20 naked inmate? 21 JAMES UPCHURCH: The door, the door is 112 1 here. And the view port is here. The male 2 officer would stand and watch the inmate through 3 the door. The female would stand off just to the 4 side. 5 The reason for having -- the primary 6 reason for having the two staff there, when they 7 open the door, is to make sure that somehow he 8 hasn't manipulated the restraints, so they can 9 assure the restraints are firmly in place, that 10 everything is okay, and then the one officer can 11 escort. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Got it. 13 Well, why don't -- thank you very much. 14 Why don't we take -- 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: One more, one more 16 question. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, I'm sorry. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Excuse me, 19 Mr. Chairman. 20 Mr. Upchurch, are you satisfied that 21 officers are receiving adequate training for 113 1 identifying sexual abuse in facilities in 2 Florida? 3 JAMES UPCHURCH: I don't -- I'm not 4 sure that I think there's ever enough training in 5 anything. I think that sexual abuse is another 6 -- different types of things that can happen to 7 inmates, especially in restricted environments. 8 They can experience mental health, you know, 9 issues, and medical issues, and so forth. 10 But our policy is very strict. We have 11 almost a no-risk, what I call a no-risk reporting 12 structure. If an officer suspects or any staff 13 member believes that an inmate is having problems 14 of any kind, they report. There's no risk to 15 reporting. There's no stigma. There's nothing 16 that occurs, other than the follow-up that's 17 prescribed by policy. 18 On the other hand, if they don't 19 report, then they're taking a chance. There's a 20 clear risk that's established by policy. There's 21 clear mandates. 114 1 And so just as a matter of reason, it 2 makes sense that they would report. I hope it 3 makes sense. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And just one quick 5 question: In your experience, how frequent is 6 staff sexual misconduct a problem in the system 7 across the board? 8 JAMES UPCHURCH: It occurs -- I'm not 9 sure how to put a relative term, a number on it. 10 It does occur. There's no doubt about that. 11 Probably the most frequent that I've seen in my 12 career was officers of the opposite gender in 13 more open settings becoming not only sexually but 14 emotionally involved. And that would be 15 something that we train and warn against 16 constantly. We try to prepare staff to deal with 17 that issue. And it does occur. I don't -- I 18 would definitely say that it is not a rampant 19 problem or frequently-occurring problem, but it 20 does occur, and we do act on it. And it is 21 reported. 115 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Upchurch, just 3 one follow-up question, and I asked Mr. Sapp 4 about this: You've testified about special 5 training, as did Mr. Sapp, that COs get for 6 close management? 7 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes, sir. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And yet, I believe 9 Mr. Sapp indicated that it is possible for a CO 10 to work in close management with your most 11 difficult inmates without even being enrolled in 12 a CO academy. 13 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes, sir. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Did I understand 15 that correctly? 16 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes, sir. In all of 17 our facilities, when we hire a new employee, a 18 new officer, there are times when there's a delay 19 in the starting of the next class. There's 20 prescribed times by the Criminal Justice Standard 21 Commission, which is for all law enforcement in 116 1 Florida, that requires that the training must 2 occur within those prescribed times. Based on 3 the facts of when a class is starting, and would 4 be filled up, it may be a month or two months 5 when an officer would work there without having 6 that CJST training. However, that doesn't -- 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: CSEJ? 8 JAMES UPCHURCH: CJST, Criminal 9 Justice -- 10 WALTER MCNEIL: CJSTC. 11 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yeah. 12 GEORGE SAPP: Criminal Justice 13 Standards and Training Council. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So for a month or 15 two, they can -- what training would they have 16 had prior to being allowed on the floor at CM 1, 17 or any CM? 18 JAMES UPCHURCH: What I was going to 19 say is, that does not -- not having that training 20 does not prevent them from receiving specialized 21 training. 117 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What training with 2 respect to sexual assault and staff sexual 3 misconduct would such a CO-to-be get before 4 they -- or be required to get before they are 5 allowed on a CM floor? 6 JAMES UPCHURCH: I would prefer that 7 you ask the facility there, but I would think 8 that they would receive the same PREA-type of 9 training as the other ones. 10 GEORGE SAPP: Sir, they go through new 11 employee orientation before they ever go out on 12 the floor, which includes the PREA training, and 13 inmate manipulation training, and all the things 14 that we would tell any employee, be it volunteer, 15 contract, medical, mental health, classification. 16 All of our staff get that new employee 17 orientation where they get PREA training to begin 18 with. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many hours of 20 training would you get on sexual assault on that 21 new employee training? 118 1 GEORGE SAPP: I believe it's a two-hour 2 block for PREA. It's a 40-hour overall training. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We'll ask 4 Ms. Hoffman and Warden Johnson about the 5 specifics of that institution. 6 GEORGE SAPP: So they do get that 7 training prior to going out there and working 8 with inmates. They have to have that. You just 9 don't hand somebody a set of keys or put them 10 down there without any type of training. 11 And then as they go through their 12 on-the-job instruction by their supervisors, 13 they're talked to about all the procedures on the 14 close management unit, how they need to act. 15 They read procedures. They have post orders that 16 give them direction. They are used in a very 17 limited capacity. They have to be under direct 18 supervision, as I said earlier, by another 19 officer. They're used in situations in the 20 control room, like Mr. Upchurch is talking about, 21 where they don't have direct contact or direct 119 1 supervision or interaction with the inmates. We 2 have to utilize them as a matter of course of 3 business, but we do limit their ability to 4 interact with the inmates. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Secretary, I 6 want to thank you and Mr. Sapp and Mr. Upchurch. 7 It would be great if you can hang around. 8 WALTER MCNEIL: Absolutely. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: As you indicated, 10 all of us are going to learn more. And you may 11 have some things you want to chime in. You 12 probably heard Director Lappin interject once or 13 twice yesterday. 14 WALTER MCNEIL: I won't be quite that 15 energetic. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: But we welcome 17 that -- 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We welcome that. 19 Yeah. 20 WALTER MCNEIL: Thank you. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Absolutely. 120 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: -- if you so 2 desire. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. Thank 4 you. 5 We'll be in recess until five after 6 11:00. 7 Thank you very much. 8 (A break is taken.) 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. May we have 10 the first on the next panel, Ms. Donna Hoffman, 11 Captain Scott Anderson, and Nurse and Supervisor 12 Gail Duran, please? 13 Good morning. 14 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Good morning. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you all for 16 coming, leaving warm and, I imagine, sunny 17 Florida for -- 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: Actually, it's warmer 19 here than it is in Florida. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is that right? 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 121 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Wow. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you raise your 3 right hands, please? 4 (The witnesses were placed under oath.) 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you please 6 identify your name, your title, and just give us 7 a nutshell description of the scope of your 8 responsibilities? 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: Who would you like to 10 start with? 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Duran, please. 12 GAIL DURAN: My name is Gail Duran. 13 I'm the senior registered nurse supervisor at 14 Charlotte Correction. I've been there since 15 2001, and I've been the nursing supervisor for 16 the last year. Basically, my job is to interview 17 new nurses, orientation, make schedules, 18 reeducate on policy, procedures, staff meetings, 19 dealing with staffing issues, making sure 20 everything runs smoothly in medical. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The last, I didn't 122 1 catch. 2 GAIL DURAN: Making sure everything 3 runs smoothly in medical. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And were you there 5 at Charlotte when the survey was taken? 6 GAIL DURAN: Yes, I was. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And were you the 8 supervisor then? 9 GAIL DURAN: No, I was not. I was a 10 staff nurse. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When did you become 12 the supervisor? 13 GAIL DURAN: Within the last year. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you 15 remember what month you became the supervisor? 16 GAIL DURAN: October of '07. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And how many nurses 18 are on staff? 19 GAIL DURAN: Approximately, 20, over 20 three shifts. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Captain Anderson? 123 1 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. My name is 2 Scott Anderson. I'm the captain at Charlotte 3 Correctional Institution in Florida. I oversee 4 the daily operations of the institution, as far 5 as manpower and supervision of the inmates. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long have 7 you had that position, sir? 8 SCOTT ANDERSON: I've been the captain 9 for seven years, sir. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And all seven years, 11 have you been at CCI? 12 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. I did three 13 years at DeSoto Correctional. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's in FDOC? 15 SCOTT ANDERSON: Florida, yes, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And Captain, how 17 long have you been at CCI, then? 18 Four years? 19 SCOTT ANDERSON: I've been back four 20 years. Yes, sir. I've got a total of 18 years 21 in the department, 15 of them at Charlotte CI. 124 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So what was your 2 original title when you were first at CCI? 3 SCOTT ANDERSON: Correctional officer, 4 up to sergeant, then up to captain. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you describe 6 your duties as supervising daily operations? 7 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. I ensure 8 that the shift is staffed with officers, assign 9 them their daily duties, ensure that everything 10 runs smooth, supervise the inmate population, 11 both close management and open population, to 12 make sure they're doing what they're supposed to 13 be doing and properly supervised. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And who do you 15 report to? 16 SCOTT ANDERSON: I report to the 17 correction officer major and correction officer 18 colonel. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And who are they, 20 their names? 21 SCOTT ANDERSON: Major Steve Rodenberry 125 1 and Colonel Tomlinson. 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And Captain, can 3 you tell me how many other -- other officers have 4 the rank of captain, in addition to yourself? 5 SCOTT ANDERSON: There's five of us, 6 five of us total. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Five captains? 8 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, ma'am. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And that was Major 10 Steve Rodenberry and Colonel Robinson? 11 SCOTT ANDERSON: Tomlinson. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Tomlinson. Okay. 13 And I believe we're going to -- 14 SCOTT ANDERSON: He's present. Yes, 15 sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: -- hear from Colonel 17 Tomlinson. 18 Is Major Rodenberry here today, or no? 19 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And in the 21 course of your responsibilities, would you expect 126 1 to hear about any grievance from an inmate 2 regarding staff sexual misconduct? 3 Would every one of them come to your 4 desk? 5 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir, not every one 6 of them. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Who would 8 triage them or process them or filter them before 9 you would see them? 10 SCOTT ANDERSON: Most of the ones that 11 I receive are received from the assistant 12 warden's secretary. She calls me over. Most of 13 them are on an informal grievance, or grievance, 14 and she notifies me. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And her name is? 16 SCOTT ANDERSON: Ms. McDermott. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And does she make 18 the initial cut, so to speak, or review that 19 determines what you see, or does somebody else? 20 SCOTT ANDERSON: I'm not sure. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But when you hear -- 127 1 to the extent you hear anything about your 2 officers, any allegation of misconduct, it's 3 going to come from Ms. McDermott and the 4 associate warden's office. 5 SCOTT ANDERSON: That's where I get my 6 word. Yes, sir. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. Thank 8 you for being here. 9 Ms. Hoffman? 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: My name is Donna 11 Hoffman. I'm a correctional officer/law 12 enforcement inspector supervisor. I have 25 13 years of experience with the Department of 14 Corrections. Ten years of that was in the 15 security ranks; two years as an officer; six 16 years as a sergeant; two years as a lieutenant; 17 15 years with the inspector general's office; 18 five years as an inspector; three years as a 19 senior inspector; two years as a lead senior 20 inspector; one year as an inspector supervisor 21 over a field office; three years as an inspector 128 1 supervisor over a statewide use-of-force unit; 2 and my current position is PREA unit supervisor, 3 which is a statewide unit, for the last year. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And when did you 5 become the PREA coordinator for the department? 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: A year ago today. 7 All right. My training includes a 8 correction officer academy, a law enforcement 9 academy, both of which involves specific training 10 as far as investigative issues are concerned. I 11 have a specialized training in the area of 12 investigations and interrogations, crime scene 13 investigations, evidence collecting and handling, 14 sex crimes investigation, courtroom testimony, 15 annual in-service training, inspector general 16 annual statewide specialized investigative 17 training, including special and sexual victims, 18 victims and subject interview techniques, PREA 19 training. 20 As a PREA unit supervisor, I'm also 21 very involved in the day-to-day operations of the 129 1 PREA and the PREA process, and I work many joint 2 investigations with the Florida Department of Law 3 Enforcement and their crime scene units. 4 I have a prepared statement. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Anything else you 6 want to share initially, that's fine. 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Okay. As the PREA unit 8 supervisor, I'm responsible for managing the PREA 9 grant entitled Protecting Inmates and 10 Safeguarding the Community Discretionary Grant 11 Program. I supervise the senior inspector and 12 training consultant who assist me in implementing 13 the goals and objectives of the grant reward. I 14 ensure the goals and objectives and the budget 15 are followed in accordance with the provisions by 16 the DOJ award, and I obtain and compile 17 information required to complete the necessary 18 progress reports and submit within the GMS, which 19 is the general management system, the grant 20 management system. Myself and the senior 21 inspector investigate PREA incidents in Region 1 130 1 and 2, along with inspectors who investigate 2 incidents in Region 3 and 4. I interview and 3 approve -- I review and approve PREA reports 4 within the PREA unit, and I assist with others as 5 needed. I also assist the field office 6 inspectors, facility inspectors, and inspector 7 supervisors as they need -- as needed related to 8 PREA incidents. 9 The PREA grant involved four phases. 10 Phase one of the PREA began in July of 2004 11 through June of 2006, a two-year program. During 12 phase one, the Florida Department of Corrections 13 implemented the Prison Rape Elimination Act 14 passed by Congress by developing and facilitating 15 internal policies and procedures to educate 16 inmates and staff on prevention, notification, 17 and investigation of all sexual misconduct 18 issues. Phase one was implemented by the joint 19 effort of several bureaus within the Office of 20 the Inspector General, the Office of Security 21 Operations, the Office of Staff Development, and 131 1 the Office of Information Technology, and also 2 the Office of Research and Analysis. Inmate and 3 staff received mandatory training using NIC and 4 staff development training material, and that 5 training continues today. 6 Phase two of PREA began in July of '06 7 and will conclude in June of '08. During phase 8 2, the Florida Department of Corrections was 9 awarded a million dollars for its proposal 10 entitled -- in a grant. It was awarded a million 11 dollars for a proposal entitled Florida Zero 12 Tolerance Initiative, from the Bureau of Justice. 13 Assistance, from the Protecting Inmates and 14 Safeguarding Communities Discretionary Grant 15 Program. This grant is being used to retrofit a 16 major offender facility with surveillance 17 technology to address security issues and safe 18 communities, enhance investigative techniques to 19 elicit sensitive information from victims and 20 perpetrators, and to provide enhanced training 21 and educational training throughout the state for 132 1 staff and inmates. 2 The PREA unit I supervise was 3 established during phase two, beginning in March 4 of last year, with me as the inspector 5 supervisor, a senior inspector who came on board in 6 April of '07, and a training consultant who came 7 on board in May of '07. The senior inspector and 8 the supervisor began working a portion of the 9 PREA cases statewide, mostly in Region 1 and 2, 10 just because of geographics. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Hoffman, who was 12 the training expert that you brought on in May of 13 last year? 14 DONNA HOFFMAN: It's a training 15 consultant. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Consultant. 17 DONNA HOFFMAN: He's helping to build a 18 curriculum which is part of the requirement in 19 phase two. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what is his 21 name? 133 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: His name is Joe, 2 Joseph, Balco. 3 And my senior inspector is Tanya 4 Fontaine. 5 Enhanced training for staff and inmates 6 has been developed and is being disseminated. 7 Enhanced specialized training for the 8 investigators is being addressed separately. 9 Phase two of the grant has been 10 extended one year to allow for the completion of 11 the retrofit of the offender facility. This was 12 due to us getting a late start, because we had a 13 great deal of change in top administration with 14 the Department of Corrections. 15 Phase three and four of the PREA was 16 scheduled to begin in July, 2008, through June, 17 2010, and July, 2010, through June, 2012, 18 respectively. 19 The bureau -- or, I'm sorry, the Prison 20 Rape Elimination Act, again, is a four-phase 21 program, for a total of eight years, beginning in 134 1 June of '04, and ending in June of '12; however, 2 the grant funding for PREA phase three and four 3 has not been awarded and will not be available. 4 The PREA unit will be eliminated in July of 2008, 5 and the requirements of the PREA Act will be 6 returned to the applicable sections of the 7 Florida Department of Corrections. For example, 8 training will be handled by staff development, 9 and investigations will be addressed by the 10 applicable inspector general field offices. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you will no 12 longer be the PREA coordinator, and neither will 13 anybody else, after July of this year? 14 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 15 We have a notification and assignment 16 process. All PREA incidents or allegations are 17 reported via incident report, MINS, which stands 18 for Management Information Notification System, 19 and EAC, which stands for Emergency Action 20 center. 21 The wardens ensure -- this is 135 1 statewide -- the wardens ensure that the inmate 2 orientation process encourages inmates to 3 immediately report any concerns with their 4 correctional staff. Orientation provides the 5 inmate with information and direction. It also 6 provides assurance that their reports will be 7 taken seriously. Orientation advises inmates of 8 treatment and counseling opportunities. They are 9 encouraged to personally report. 10 However, regardless of the form, all 11 allegations and incidents are forwarded to the 12 Office of the Inspector General for immediate 13 review and action. PREA identification numbers 14 are issued for tracking and storing purposes, and 15 the appropriate notification is made. All 16 reports including -- include a PREA 17 identification number issued by the Emergency 18 Action Center. A MINS report is generated, and a 19 PREA is entered into the IG Log's database. IG 20 Logs means Inspector General Log System. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Inspector General -- 136 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: Log System. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: -- Log System. 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: It's our database that 4 tracks all investigations, and on the final 5 investigative report when it is submitted. 6 Employees who fail to report, take 7 immediate action, or trivialize any allegation, 8 will be subject to the appropriate level of 9 discipline, up to and including termination of 10 employment. 11 The Office of the Inspector General 12 will have been notified of all allegations or 13 incidents via the following method: Either by 14 incident report, internal reporting, direct 15 reporting to the inspector general's office via 16 MINS or via the Emergency Action Center, 17 complaints received via other agencies, 18 documentation forwarded to the Bureau of Inmate 19 Grievances, complaints received in written 20 correspondence by telephone, e-mail, or other 21 forms of communication. During normal hours, 137 1 incidents will be reported immediately to the 2 inspector general's office, chief of 3 investigations, or the on-duty supervisors for 4 the region involved. The on-duty inspector will 5 respond accordingly. After-hour notification 6 will be made to the Emergency Action Center to 7 the statewide on-call inspector supervisor, and 8 will make the appropriate notification and 9 dispatch an on-call inspector for that region. 10 The complaint is evaluated and assigned 11 as necessary. Once the investigation is 12 complete, the investigation report is submitted 13 for our approval and appropriate case 14 distribution, regardless of whether it is 15 administrative or criminal. 16 And that concludes my statement. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you, 18 Ms. Hoffman. 19 Captain Anderson? 20 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If you wanted to get 138 1 away with a sexual assault on an inmate at CCI, 2 where would you want to do it? 3 Where are the blind spots in that 4 facility? 5 SCOTT ANDERSON: I can't think of any, 6 sir, as long as the inmates are where they're 7 supposed to be. We keep track of them by inmate 8 pass system. When they leave the dormitory, 9 they're given a pass, if they're off duty to 10 report somewhere. They also record that when 11 they get there, and report after they leave and 12 return to their dormitory. If they're at their 13 work assignment, they're supervised by staff. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Where would be the 15 least observed area? 16 Is there no area in that facility where 17 any of the 1,300 or 1,031 inmates are not on a 18 video camera or visual sight? 19 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. There's 20 staff posted at everywhere at the institution, on 21 the rec yard, in all the dormitories, in the chow 139 1 hall, on the yard, when they're moving back and 2 forth. There's staff positioned strategically. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Where are the most 4 vulnerable areas? 5 I assume some are more staffed than 6 others, more visible and open. 7 If you were to guess or speculate as to 8 where a sexual assault would occur, where's the 9 first place you would look? 10 SCOTT ANDERSON: I don't know, sir. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Wouldn't have a 12 clue? 13 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: No dimly-lit areas? 15 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, ma'am. There's 16 staff supervising 24 hours a day. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Video ever go down? 18 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how long, 20 typically, when the video goes down, are you 21 blind? 140 1 SCOTT ANDERSON: Well, as shift 2 supervisor, we check it, the video, at the 3 beginning of shift, and usually randomly 4 throughout the shift. And if we notice that it's 5 down, we immediately notify our supervisor and 6 call Tallahassee and advise them it's down. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And then what 8 happens? 9 SCOTT ANDERSON: Wait for maintenance 10 to fix it. We call maintenance, and they've 11 usually been pretty good about fixing it. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is that somebody on 13 site? 14 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It's not? 16 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: They have to come 18 from Tallahassee? 19 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. They work 20 there, but not onsite 24 hours a day. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, I see. Just 141 1 offsite, but nearby? 2 SCOTT ANDERSON: Maintenance 3 supervisor, yes, sir. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And so typically, in 5 your experience, how long has video been down? 6 What's the longest period, in your 7 experience? 8 SCOTT ANDERSON: A few hours. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And there's 10 evidently not an officer actually monitoring, 11 sitting in front of TV monitors, and just 12 watching all the time? 13 You indicated that you'll occasionally 14 check and see if anything is down; is that 15 correct? 16 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Why is it that 18 nobody is sitting there watching a series of 19 monitors all the time? 20 SCOTT ANDERSON: I don't have the 21 answer to that, sir. 142 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, that's above 2 your pay grade in terms of the decision? 3 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you know what the 5 staff-to-inmate ratio is for the CM units? 6 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. As a 7 minimum, we have one sergeant and four officers 8 assigned to the -- for CM dormitory. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how many -- how 10 many would be in that dormitory, how many 11 inmates? 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: Excuse me. 13 Mr. Upchurch can give you that. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. I'm just 15 going to hear from Captain Anderson. 16 SCOTT ANDERSON: Approximately, 225, 17 give or take. Some of the dormitories aren't 18 completely full. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So 225 in a dorm, 20 and say during the 12:00 to 8:00 shift -- or when 21 is the morning watch? 143 1 SCOTT ANDERSON: Midnight's is 12:00 to 2 8:00. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 12:00 to 8:00, at 4 that time how many folks are watching those 225? 5 SCOTT ANDERSON: One sergeant and two 6 officers. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And are any of those 8 three officers, the sergeant and two officers, 9 watching the video monitors at that time? 10 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: First shift? 12 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Hoffman, would 14 you agree that there are no blind spots in 15 Charlotte? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes, I would agree. I 17 mean, I can't say that, where blind spots would 18 be. I know that inmates have assigned places 19 where they're supposed to be, and they understand 20 that if they're not in those areas, then they're 21 in an unauthorized area and may be subject to 144 1 escape discipline. They are given a pass, and 2 they're supervised very closely from place to 3 place. And the areas, as far as videotaping is 4 concerned, to my knowledge is only within the CM 5 units. The rest is visual supervision. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You're familiar with 7 the 37 incidents of alleged sexual misconduct in 8 calendar 2006 that were produced by Charlotte? 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes, I am. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are you aware that 11 several of those indicate that video was down? 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: The video was down? 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Down, not operating. 14 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. They were. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And are you aware 16 that several of them indicate that the cell was 17 not visible in the -- in the video that was on 18 that particular quad? 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't remember 20 specifics without looking at them. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Right. 145 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: As far as down, I think 2 that it said that the video was not available on 3 a couple of those, which means that it had gone 4 beyond the 30 days, which is a retention period, 5 unless something has been reported, and then it 6 goes -- then we retain it longer than 30 days. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. Would there 8 be any other reason why a video would not be, 9 quote, available, other than it's beyond 30 days 10 and therefore erased? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: No, I can't think of 12 any other reason. If it's related to an 13 investigation, or a use-of-force incident, it's 14 retained. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. Now, are you 16 aware of any incident in your tenure at CCI where 17 the alleged incident was not within the camera 18 range of the video? 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: Nothing comes 20 immediately to mind. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If I was to tell 146 1 you, Captain, that a sexual assault had occurred 2 in Charlotte, and I wasn't going to tell you 3 where it happened, where's the first place you 4 would want to look? 5 Middle of the yard? 6 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Middle of the 8 chapel? Library? Kitchen? 9 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. There's 10 supervision at all those areas. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, that wasn't my 12 question. 13 I'm just saying, if I told you there 14 was -- that it had occurred, where do you 15 think -- where would you first look? 16 Or would you just flip a coin and say, 17 well, I'll just go to my left and go to my right? 18 SCOTT ANDERSON: I can't think of 19 anywhere where I'd prioritize, depending on the 20 inmate's assignment. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you want 147 1 cameras anywhere where you presently don't have 2 cameras in Charlotte, anything that's 3 undermonitored, in your opinion? 4 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are you 6 understaffed, in your opinion? 7 SCOTT ANDERSON: No. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are three officers 9 on 225 maximum security inmates adequate? 10 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We were provided a 12 document entitled Alleged Sexual Battery 13 Assessment. 14 Are you familiar with this document, 15 DC 4-683 M, revised December, '05, two-page 16 document? 17 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You want me to show 19 it to you, or do you -- might as well. 20 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes. I've never dealt 21 with this form. 148 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how about 2 Ms. Duran? 3 GAIL DURAN: Yes. I know what that 4 form is. 5 DONNA HOFFMAN: It's a medical form. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Duran, what -- 7 on what occasion would you come into contact with 8 this, or use this assessment? 9 GAIL DURAN: For an alleged sexual 10 assault. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. And have you 12 ever used it? 13 GAIL DURAN: Yes, I have. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When? 15 GAIL DURAN: I cannot give you the 16 dates. It's been over a seven-year period. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Was it last 18 week? 19 GAIL DURAN: No. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Seven years ago? 21 GAIL DURAN: Not in the last year, that 149 1 I can recall. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And in the 3 last year, let's see, you've been -- you're a 4 supervisor since October of last year? 5 GAIL DURAN: Correct. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you've been at 7 Charlotte since '01? 8 GAIL DURAN: Correct. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So in those seven 10 years at Charlotte, it's your testimony that you 11 have filled out or used one of these assessments? 12 GAIL DURAN: Yes, I have. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. You just 14 can't remember when? 15 GAIL DURAN: Correct. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what training 17 did you have for the use of this document? 18 GAIL DURAN: We had the initial 19 training that we go through, the 40 hours. And 20 then the nursing supervisor, when that form was 21 initiated, because we did not have that initially 150 1 when I came on in 2001, in-serviced everybody on 2 the use of that form, how to complete it, and 3 what we have to do. Plus, we have the TI and our 4 HSB to follow, which is the technical instruction 5 and the health services bulletin. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Now, that, the TI, 7 does that refer to the Technical Instruction 8 Number 15- -- .03.36, a three-page document? 9 GAIL DURAN: Correct. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Effective July 8 of 11 '05? 12 GAIL DURAN: Correct. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what's the TI 14 tell you about related to sexual assault? 15 GAIL DURAN: It basically tells you the 16 procedure to follow, what you're supposed to do 17 when you've been notified, what you need to 18 follow up, what tests need to be done, how to 19 collect the evidence, who's in the chain of 20 command, who to notify if somebody alleges sexual 21 assault, and the procedure to follow from there. 151 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you ever had to 2 employ this, this procedure? 3 GAIL DURAN: Yes, I have. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: On one occasion? 5 Frequently? 6 GAIL DURAN: Twice. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Twice, and that's 8 twice since '01 or since you've been supervisor? 9 GAIL DURAN: Since '01. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you remember the 11 occasion, either of those occasions? 12 GAIL DURAN: I just know that an inmate 13 alleged sexual assault by another inmate. And we 14 did the whole process, sent them out for a rape 15 kit, and followed the procedure. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have rape 17 kits onsite? 18 GAIL DURAN: No, we do not. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So this is all done 20 in an ER offsite? 21 GAIL DURAN: The initial procedure 152 1 where we collect the clothing and all that is 2 done onsite. Then he is given another set of 3 clothing, and he is transported to the local 4 hospital, and it is done at the emergency room. 5 That is brought back. A chain of custody slip is 6 maintained at that time, and then it is secured 7 by the inspector. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What was the outcome 9 of the inmate-on-inmate allegation that you were 10 referring to? 11 GAIL DURAN: To my knowledge, both men 12 were unfounded. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And the OIG 14 would also be familiar with those two incidents? 15 GAIL DURAN: As far as I know, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: They ought to be? 17 GAIL DURAN: Yes. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The OIG ever have 19 contact with your office about sexual assault? 20 GAIL DURAN: In what manner? 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You ever hear from 153 1 any inspector about, hey, we have an allegation 2 of staff sexual misconduct, touching, 3 penetration, or inmate-on-inmate sexual assault, 4 and we'd like you to tell us what you know? 5 GAIL DURAN: No. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Never had that 7 happen? 8 GAIL DURAN: No, sir. I've only dealt 9 with the institution inspector. 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: Which is part of the 11 OIG. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Which is part of the 13 OIG. Okay. 14 GAIL DURAN: That's right. Yeah. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Nobody from 16 Tallahassee or Region? 17 GAIL DURAN: No, sir. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'd like to ask 19 Ms. Hoffman, what is your greatest concern in 20 implementing PREA in your facilities? 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't have any 154 1 concerns at this point. I think it's going very 2 well. The officers all receive training, all 3 staff members receive training. They're tested on 4 that training. The program is computerized, and 5 it has a mechanism built in that if the employee 6 doesn't understand, they're automatically thrown 7 into a remedial mode until they do understand the 8 process. So I think they're receiving very good 9 training. We're working on the enhanced portion 10 of it now, most of which is ready to go out, and 11 some is already in the process of being sent out. 12 So I don't feel like we have any concerns as far 13 as the training aspect is concerned. I think the 14 inmates are also receiving very good training. 15 They also feel very free in reporting, based on 16 our numbers -- what's reported statewide. They are 17 reporting incidents, and they are getting 18 investigated and addressed. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What programs, or 20 are there any programs, that are developing out 21 of PREA that you're creating, that you think 155 1 might, in ways, enhance the facility in terms of 2 information and response to sexual assault? 3 Are there any things that you're 4 picking up and learning and deciding, wow, this 5 looks like something that we ought to pursue in 6 developing special programs? 7 Is there anything of that nature going 8 on? 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: We have had several 10 incidents where the inmates waited too long to 11 report. They reported it, but they either took a 12 shower, or they used the bathroom, things that 13 they were originally encouraged not to do. So 14 part of the enhancement is to really emphasize 15 the importance of them not taking a shower, not 16 changing their clothes, not using the bathroom, 17 and reporting it immediately, not waiting, not 18 delaying, because the evidence is lost as a 19 result of that, which hinders the prosecution 20 aspect of it. That training is going out as we 21 speak. 156 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are there any 2 programs that allow inmates to have open 3 discussions and discourse about sexual assault, 4 sexual activity? 5 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'm not sure what you 6 mean. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Any support groups, 8 discussion groups, opportunities to have inmates 9 talk with each other? 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: Not that I'm aware of, 11 other than what they could do through their 12 mental health counseling. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What is the 14 environmental culture like at your facility 15 regarding the topic of sex, in the housing units, 16 in the dining room? 17 Are there practical jokes? 18 Are people blatant and open about 19 discussions about sex? 20 What's the temperature there? 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'm not at a facility. 157 1 I'm in central office, which is in Tallahassee. 2 I'm not actually at Charlotte. 3 But, no, it is not tolerated by our 4 agency. We have a professional agency. We have 5 a code of ethics and a code of conduct, and it 6 is closely monitored and adhered to by 7 supervisors and staff. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Is that generally 9 your perception of all of the facilities, that 10 the environment and the culture is such that 11 there's zero tolerance for anything of this 12 nature? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. And I have 14 visited many of the facilities, and that is the 15 impression that I get. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Captain Anderson, 17 you're at Charlotte. 18 What is the culture, the environment, 19 with respect to sexual jokes, statements, 20 monikers, labeling, by staff against inmates or 21 vice versa? 158 1 SCOTT ANDERSON: Zero tolerance, sir. 2 Disciplinary action will be taken on both inmates 3 for making vulgar comments or on staff. We will 4 do an incident report and report that type of 5 behavior and send it up through the chain of 6 command. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is porn, soft porn 8 or hard-core porn, allowed in the possession of 9 an inmate? 10 SCOTT ANDERSON: No hard-core porn. 11 They're allowed soft porn, as long as it doesn't 12 show penetration or touching. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: As long as it 14 doesn't show penetration or touching? 15 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So if we 17 wandered through any of the CM quads, we could 18 see inside cells there might be pinups and -- 19 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. We have a 20 zero tolerance on hanging things on the wall. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, I see. 159 1 SCOTT ANDERSON: Or affixing things to 2 the lights. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But in their 4 possession? 5 SCOTT ANDERSON: They could have it in 6 their locker. Yes, sir. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how about TV? 8 Are there TVs in the CM? 9 SCOTT ANDERSON: In the CM 2s and CM 10 3s they're allowed to watch TV, but nothing 11 pornographic whatsoever. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Any cable channels 13 that are accessible? 14 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: DVDs allowed? 16 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 17 WALTER MCNEIL: Mr. Chairman, if I 18 could? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Secretary. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes. 21 WALTER MCNEIL: I wanted to speak to 160 1 the issue of culture. Ms. Ellis, you wanted to 2 have an idea of what's the culture like in our 3 facilities, specifically in Charlotte. And I 4 think it important to note that this agency, for 5 the last two years, prior to my getting there, 6 has been, in my estimation, absorbed in what one 7 would describe as an effort to make sure the 8 culture is sensitive to the kinds of language 9 that's spoken, that you make reference to. There 10 is a DVD that has been provided to every 11 employee, that is an hour-long presentation 12 about -- and goes into great detail in speaking 13 to and talking to the employees about what subtle 14 messages are allowed to seep into a culture when 15 you allow that kind of language to be a part of 16 an ongoing environment, to the point where 17 former Secretary McDonough made sure that 18 everyone understood what the expectations were, 19 and that that kind of behavior would not be 20 tolerated at any level in the Department of 21 Corrections. And that is something that is 161 1 ongoing. I am delivering myself in terms of 2 making sure that there's a message sent about 3 cultural issues. 4 And I think, as I said to you 5 previously, I think there's a perception, 6 stereotypically, that corrections institutions, 7 prisons, allow that kind of behavior. Whether 8 it's perceived or real, in the State of Florida, 9 we're working to make sure that that culture is 10 not accepted at any level in our institutions. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you. 12 Captain, I will ask you the question 13 that I asked earlier about the report: You are 14 aware of the report? 15 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, ma'am. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And what's your 17 reaction to the numbers that are given in terms 18 of Charlotte? 19 SCOTT ANDERSON: My reaction is pretty 20 much unbelievable. I don't feel that we have 21 that many problems at Charlotte CI. 162 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And in terms of 2 your colleagues and subordinates and peers 3 working there, what kind of reaction are you 4 aware of that they have registered? 5 SCOTT ANDERSON: I'm not aware of any 6 adverse effect that's taken place. We continue 7 to tell our staff to be professional. They know 8 we were coming up here. There's really been no 9 positive or negative. We just tell them to keep 10 acting professional and doing their job. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Duran, have you 12 ever been on the receiving end of any sexualized 13 comments during your tenure at CCI? 14 GAIL DURAN: From inmates. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: From anybody? 16 GAIL DURAN: From inmates. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what typically 18 happens? 19 GAIL DURAN: I write a disciplinary 20 report. I hand it in. It's processed. They go 21 to DR court. 163 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: They go to -- 2 GAIL DURAN: Disciplinary report court. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Disciplinary report 4 court? 5 GAIL DURAN: Correct. When you write 6 the DR, the disciplinary report, then they have 7 to go to court, whether -- to plea innocent or 8 guilty. And then they state their case. And 9 then they're found innocent or guilty. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what about 11 hearing sexualized jokes, comments, stories, 12 among staff? 13 GAIL DURAN: No, sir. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Never, never heard a 15 sex innuendo from any staff at Charlotte? 16 GAIL DURAN: No, sir. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No CO has ever 18 referred to an inmate as being -- in some 19 derogatory homosexual reference or being, you 20 know, being a queen, or fresh meat, or 21 cocksucker, or something, anything like that? 164 1 GAIL DURAN: Not in my presence, sir. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about you, 3 Captain? 4 SCOTT ANDERSON: Not in my presence, 5 no, sir. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You've never heard, 7 in your 15 years at CCI, you've never heard a 8 single sexual joke said by any staff member, not 9 a single sexual reference? 10 SCOTT ANDERSON: Not towards inmates. 11 I might have heard an explicit joke, but never in 12 the presence of inmates. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What about about 14 inmates, not necessarily in their presence, but 15 just in general talking about them? 16 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, ma'am. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Never in all those 18 years? 19 SCOTT ANDERSON: Not that I can 20 remember anyway, no, ma'am. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In the lounge, when 165 1 you're with other correctional officers, nobody 2 talks about an effeminate inmate or an inmate who 3 you think may be gay or may be having a 4 relationship with another inmate? 5 There's never been a story like that? 6 SCOTT ANDERSON: Not that's been 7 brought up. Usually, they talk about other 8 stuff. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What -- Captain, 10 what do you think could be done to further 11 prevent or I should say reduce the apparent high 12 incidence of staff sexual misconduct at 13 Charlotte? 14 SCOTT ANDERSON: I don't think there 15 can be anything different, just keep doing what 16 we're doing, acting in a professional manner, 17 treating them like they're human beings, and 18 respecting them as they respect us. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you wouldn't 20 change anything? 21 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 166 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you think that, 2 and I may have asked you this about the ratio, 3 you have enough correctional officers to 4 supervise and enforce the applicable regulations 5 and policies about sexual assault and sexual 6 misconduct? 7 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Captain, what do 9 you think inmates fear most in your facility? 10 SCOTT ANDERSON: I don't know that they 11 fear anything, really. 12 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: How so? 13 Talk a little more about that, please. 14 SCOTT ANDERSON: Nothing has been 15 brought to my attention where inmates are -- 16 they're in fear of each other once in a while, 17 but mainly the problem, inmates that we deal 18 with, they seem to be dealing with their 19 situation. And if they're in fear of anything, 20 they really don't tell. They might tell 21 psychological or medical, but they, very few of 167 1 them, are opinionated towards me, anyway. 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Same question for 3 you, Ms. Duran, in terms of about inmates and 4 their concerns and their fears: Do you ever come 5 into contact with any discussion of that sort, or 6 are you ever aware? 7 GAIL DURAN: No, ma'am. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: How closely do you 9 work with the psychologist on staff? 10 GAIL DURAN: They're in the mental 11 health department. The only time we have 12 interaction is if there's an issue involving an 13 inmate that crosses the medical/mental health 14 issue, that we have to work together. But on a 15 daily basis, there's not interaction. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What -- what 17 exactly is the protocol if an inmate reports 18 being raped? 19 What happens? 20 What swings into action immediately? 21 GAIL DURAN: The first thing, if it was 168 1 reported to medical, we would call OIG. The 2 inmate would be brought over to medical. We 3 would start the whole rape process, which is the 4 two sheets on the floor. The inmates would 5 remove their shoes, provided they still had the 6 same clothing on that they were wearing when the 7 attack happened, and it was 48 hours. He would 8 step in the middle of the sheet. We have a 9 series of paper bags. Medical would have gloves 10 on, pull the paper bag over the sheet. The 11 inmate would take off each article of clothing 12 which we've placed in a bag, fold it over, tape, 13 noted that it was clothing. A chain of custody 14 sheet would be started by security. It is being 15 videotaped while we are doing this. Once they 16 get down to their underwear, the underwear is 17 taken off, put in another bag, each article of 18 clothing in a separate bag. The underwear bag is 19 labeled "underwear." The inmate is instructed to 20 step off the sheet. Medical rolls it into 21 itself. It is put in another bag, and it is 169 1 labeled "worn material." It is also secured, and 2 goes on the chain of custody list. 3 The inmate is then provided an article 4 of clothing to go outside the facility, which we 5 have a contract with Charlotte Regional Medical 6 Center. They are brought to the emergency room. 7 The rape kit is performed. When they come back, 8 we need to find out what tests were performed for 9 sexual diseases while they were at the facility. 10 The rape kit is handed off to the inspector, who 11 is usually onsite for them to secure it. We are 12 never in possession of the rape kit. And there 13 should be a chain of custody list started on 14 that. We obtain the results of the testing that 15 was done at the hospital to maintain on the 16 inmate's chart. The 683 M is completed. That is 17 also put on the inmate's chart. 18 We try to ascertain who the perpetrator 19 is so we can check their medical jacket to see 20 if they're at risk for HIV. If the HIV status is 21 unknown, or the inmate -- the perpetrator is 170 1 HIV-positive, then we start the prophylaxis, which 2 is the Combivir, and in our institution is Kelatra, 3 but it is a PI. 4 Then whatever tests they were not 5 tested for at the hospital they are tested for at 6 the institution. We try to also get the 7 perpetrator to acquiesce to be tested but we cannot 8 force him to be tested. And then if there are no 9 other medical issues that need to be addressed, 10 they are handed off to security, and they take it 11 from there. 12 We also refer them to mental health for 13 the next working day. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: When does the 15 emotional support begin, and who performs that? 16 GAIL DURAN: It is usually mental 17 health. However, all nursing personnel, when 18 they renew licenses, must have a course in 19 domestic violence, so that issue is covered. So 20 we are certainly active listeners. We can give 21 them the support that they need then and there. 171 1 We can encourage them to verbalize any of their 2 fears, any of their concerns. 3 We certainly start the counseling 4 process when we're doing the HIV -- precounseling 5 before we do the test, and we tell them what we 6 were going to do, what we can expect, how 7 frequently they will be tested over the next year 8 to make sure they don't, say, revert at a later 9 date, because of that window of opportunity. 10 And then we do the referral for mental 11 health, who follows up the next business day. 12 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: In addition to the 13 training on domestic violence, what specific 14 training do you have in terms of sexual assault 15 and the specific needs of victims of sexual 16 assault? 17 GAIL DURAN: We also receive the same 18 PREA training initially and every year 19 thereafter. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do you have any 21 exposure to SANE nurses, Sexual Assault Nursing 172 1 Examiners, and the kind of training that they 2 provide -- 3 GAIL DURAN: No, ma'am. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: -- relative to 5 sexual assault? 6 GAIL DURAN: No, ma'am. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do you feel 8 competent to provide crisis intervention and 9 emotional support to victims? 10 GAIL DURAN: Yes, I do. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: To what extent, in 12 terms of helping them throughout that process of 13 the examination? 14 GAIL DURAN: Any point in-between and 15 anything after. If they requested to be seen 16 after, even if they requested, "could I follow up 17 with the nurse that did the initial", we would 18 certainly make every effort to do that. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Duran, how many 20 times, in your tenure at CCI, have you used the 21 procedure that you described so well? 173 1 GAIL DURAN: Twice. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And when was the 3 last time you used it? 4 GAIL DURAN: I don't know, sir. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Was it before or 6 after you became supervisor? 7 GAIL DURAN: Before. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: More than two years 9 ago? More than four years ago? 10 GAIL DURAN: I truly cannot remember, 11 sir. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It would be a matter 13 of record though? 14 GAIL DURAN: Yes. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You'd have that? 16 GAIL DURAN: It should be in OBIS 17 somewhere. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In? 19 GAIL DURAN: The offender-based 20 information system, which is on the computer. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. I'm going to 174 1 ask if we could see that, any documentation of 2 instances where the, call it, the PREA procedure 3 that you just described was used in whole or in 4 part. 5 KATHLEEN VON HOENE: As to Ms. Duran 6 specifically? 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No. Anytime that 8 procedure has been used by any staff member at 9 Charlotte. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Ms. Duran -- 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. 12 Do you know how long that procedure has 13 been in place? 14 GAIL DURAN: No, I don't. The only 15 thing I know for sure is the 683s, which this 16 one is the 683 and the assault one. The 683s 17 were implemented sometime after 2001. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the 683 you're 19 talking about is what I asked the Captain, 20 Captain Duran (sic) about? 21 GAIL DURAN: Correct. 175 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The alleged sexual 2 battery assessment? 3 GAIL DURAN: Right. The 683 is our 4 whole list of nursing assessments, and the "M" 5 refers to that particular. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Ms. Duran, are you 7 familiar with any community-based sexual assault 8 organizations? 9 GAIL DURAN: I know what we have in our 10 community. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What do you 12 generally have in that area? 13 GAIL DURAN: We have a domestic 14 violence safehouse for mothers and children. We 15 have the CARE, which is a rape hotline. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If you, in the 17 course of your duties, come to have a reasonable 18 suspicion that sexual assault has occurred on an 19 inmate, either inmate-on-inmate or 20 staff-on-inmate, what's your understanding as to 21 whether you are at liberty to disclose that to 176 1 anybody else? 2 GAIL DURAN: I'm required to report it 3 immediately. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Has there ever been 5 a time when you've had occasion to report a 6 suspected sexual assault? 7 GAIL DURAN: Yes, sir. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And was it 9 either of those previous instances that you 10 testified to earlier, inmate-on-inmate? 11 GAIL DURAN: I don't believe so, but I 12 can't be sure. What I can tell you is he was an 13 inmate that was coming up for his end-of-sentence 14 physical exam before he was to be let out of the 15 facility, which occurs a couple of weeks before 16 they leave. And at that point, he became very 17 tearful and told me he had been sexually 18 assaulted. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what did you do? 20 GAIL DURAN: I notified the OIG. I 21 notified the doctor on staff. I wrote the 177 1 incident report. We were unable to collect any 2 evidence, because it had happened a week before. 3 But he was sent out to the hospital for a 4 physical exam. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I would ask, if we 6 could, if you haven't already produced that, if 7 we could see the OIG report, any documentation by 8 OIG. 9 GAIL DURAN: I would have just put it 10 in an incident report. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The incident report. 12 And was this -- this was obviously a 13 male inmate? 14 GAIL DURAN: Correct. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And do you remember 16 if he was from the CM, one of the CM wards? 17 GAIL DURAN: No, sir, I don't. I don't 18 know if it was open pop or if it was a CM. I do 19 not know. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And this was -- 21 where were we? 178 1 And this was an allegation of 2 inmate-on-inmate sexual assault? 3 GAIL DURAN: Yes, sir. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And this has 5 happened how many times in your tenure where 6 you've had -- where somebody has either stated 7 that they have been the victim or you've 8 concluded that that's happening? 9 GAIL DURAN: It's only happened once 10 where they've actually reported it to me. The 11 other two incidents I was involved in, they were 12 brought to medical. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are you done with 14 that line? 15 Ms. Hoffman, and certainly the entire 16 staff, I am looking at some information that came 17 to our attention regarding various cases and your 18 grievance process. And I'm looking at one 19 example here. 20 And my question is, are family members 21 of inmates given an opportunity to be heard in 179 1 terms of their concerns and what they've heard 2 from their family members? 3 Is there a process for that? 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 5 Are you talking about, can they call 6 us? 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes. Family 8 members saying that -- 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. I get calls. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: -- my son tells me 11 that he -- 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. I get calls 13 frequently, not necessarily about sexual 14 indiscretions or sexual attacks, but it's not 15 uncommon to get the telephone call from a parent 16 or sister or brother. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How are those 18 handled? 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: It depends upon the 20 complaint. If it's an issue specifically for the 21 Office of the Inspector General, a MINS report is 180 1 completed and an investigation is assigned. 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'm reading from a 3 case: The victim was hit, stolen from, and 4 sexually assaulted by the subjects at various 5 times. The victim attempted to hang himself so 6 officers would remove him from the cell with this 7 particular individual, who had punched him in the 8 face while sleeping, and also pulled a knife on 9 him, and told him that you're going to do some 10 explicit things to me. 11 The background narrative indicates that 12 the father of the victim requested that someone 13 speak to his son about the incidents and problems 14 with officers. 15 Is this common? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: Without knowing the 17 specific incident -- do you have a case number? 18 Is there something among the 19 investigations that we -- 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. Let's -- 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Something specific 181 1 about it? 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yeah. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are you talking 5 about this? 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Right. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It's case number 8 06-5-0153. 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: 0153? 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Uh-huh. 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: Was it -- do you have a 12 date, assigned date? 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: No. Actually, I 14 don't have a date. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. We can get 16 that. 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Well, it's number 18 34. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: They're not going to 20 have that. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: That's not going to 182 1 help? 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's our internal 3 stuff. 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Was it one of these 5 cases that we submitted? 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: And it was 0153? 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I think that's 10 right. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes, it is. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. It will take 13 me a minute to go through these. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Okay. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If it's still in the 16 order that you provided it, it would be the 34th 17 out of 37. 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: It's not in the order 19 we provided. I went through each of these, and 20 they're in a different order now. 21 (Sorting through documents.) 183 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: For the record, 2 we're asking about Case No. 06-5-0153. 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Incident date 5 January 8, 2006. 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. I have that 7 in front of me. 8 Okay. Can you repeat your question? 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'm simply asking 10 to have you tell us a little bit about this 11 situation, how this was investigated. 12 Do you know this individual, Kent, 13 who's listed here? 14 What can you tell us about the 15 inspector? 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The inspector, yeah, 17 do you work -- do you work with Brent Kent? 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: I did not work directly 19 with him. He's no longer with us. He's no 20 longer with the inspector general's office. 21 But it was investigated by the Office 184 1 of the Inspector General. It was assigned to an 2 institutional inspector. It was reviewed and 3 later downgraded, due to there was an 4 inmate-on-inmate conflict, and there was 5 conflicting testimony between the witnesses. 6 There was not enough evidence to support that 7 anything physically happened. We didn't have any 8 physical evidence. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Were you able to do 10 anything with the allegations that he was 11 actually struck, he was hit, and that items were 12 stolen? 13 Was there anything to do with that? 14 DONNA HOFFMAN: We didn't have any 15 physical evidence to support it, and there was 16 conflicting testimony. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have personal 18 knowledge? 19 Do you have personal knowledge about 20 this investigation? 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: No, I don't, other than 185 1 what I have on this sheet in front of me. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Right. So you're -- 3 all right. 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: I can only go based on 5 what the information is in this file. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who would be most 7 knowledgeable? 8 If Mr. Kent is no longer with you, who 9 would have been his supervisor and signed off on 10 this closure of this case, this case number? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: The inspector 12 supervisor for that region is the Inspector 13 Supervisor Tony Perez. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And is that his 15 signature on the last page, prison inspector 16 supervisor, March 9, '06? 17 Is that Mr. Perez's signature? 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'll tell you in just a 19 second. 20 Yes. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And he's still with 186 1 the department? 2 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes, he is. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And insofar as we 4 asked for any and all documentation about sexual 5 assaults, is it your understanding that there 6 is -- that this is all there is? 7 Mr. Perez may have some, you know, 8 personal recollection, but there is nothing in 9 the department's files anywhere, be it CCI or in 10 your regional office or Tallahassee, that gives 11 us more information than these three or four 12 pages? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: You have the 14 investigator report, correct? 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. Yeah. 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: No, this is it. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This is it. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And -- 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And -- go ahead. 20 I'm sorry. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Oh, I just wanted 187 1 to further, the question regarding the Inspector 2 Kent, was Inspector Kent terminated, or did he or 3 she resign? 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: He was removed from the 5 position at Charlotte. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And why is that? 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't remember the 8 specifics. It would have to come from the chief 9 of investigations, Doug Stephens. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is it common for an 11 inspector at OIG to be removed from an 12 institution? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: No, it's not common. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you can't 15 remember why? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't know the 17 specifics, because I'm in a supervisory role 18 outside of his area. So I wouldn't have been a 19 part of his discipline or his removal. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is there anybody 21 else who's going to testify today who works in 188 1 the OIG? 2 DONNA HOFFMAN: No. 3 I can get that information, but I don't 4 have it at this very moment. I don't remember 5 the specifics. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So when we asked for 7 individuals who could speak to investigations of 8 inmate-on-inmate or staff-on-inmate sexual 9 misconduct, you were the person selected; is that 10 right? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you do not 13 remember why someone was terminated, or rather 14 removed, from the very facility that we're asking 15 about? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't remember the 17 specifics. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about the 19 generalities? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: He was removed for 21 improper conduct of some kind, but I don't 189 1 remember the specifics. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sexual misconduct? 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: No. I believe it had 4 something to do with inaccurate reports, but I 5 don't want to -- I don't want to say that that's 6 exactly what it was without knowing for sure. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And was he 8 subsequently terminated from employ, or just 9 transferred? 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'm not sure. I'd have 11 to call and find out. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Counsel, can we get 13 everything there is? 14 And we'll respect any privacy about 15 it -- everything there is about Brent Kent, an 16 inspector at Charlotte, who investigated what 17 some of us would consider to be the most serious 18 of the 37 incidents, was removed, and we don't 19 know anything else about it. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: From his position 21 for improper conduct. 190 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is it common for 2 attempted suicides to occur in Charlotte? 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't know if it's 4 common. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many times -- 6 actually, you're not onsite. 7 Captain? 8 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many -- is this 10 common? 11 SCOTT ANDERSON: Suicidal gestures, 12 yes, sir. Whether they actually mean to kill 13 themselves, I think, is minimal, but they do make 14 superficial cuts and are transferred to the 15 mental health unit. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And would you know 17 about it, if it happened? 18 SCOTT ANDERSON: If I was on a shift 19 that day, yes, sir. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No, but I mean, in 21 your supervisory, as captain, and making all the 191 1 CO assignments, would you hear about an attempted 2 suicide? 3 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Whether it 5 was on your shift or not? 6 SCOTT ANDERSON: I wouldn't hear about 7 it -- I might not hear about it if it wasn't on 8 my shift of duty. If it was my days off, I was 9 on vacation, I wouldn't hear about it. If I was 10 on 4:00 to 12:00, and day shift told me about it 11 when the two captains get together, then I would 12 know about it. But I wouldn't know particulars, 13 just inmate so-and-so from "B" dormitory tried to 14 kill himself or made suicidal gestures, but I 15 wouldn't be involved in the aspect of it. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Maybe I 17 misunderstood. I know that you testified that 18 there are five captains, and you're one of five. 19 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I thought you said 21 that you supervise daily operations. 192 1 Do all five of the captains supervise 2 daily operations? 3 SCOTT ANDERSON: There are three shift 4 captains, one for the midnights, one for days, 5 one for 4:00 to 12:00. And there's two relief 6 captains which handle our relief for our days off 7 and when we're on vacation. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you're the 4:00 9 to 12:00 shift? 10 SCOTT ANDERSON: I was during 2006. 11 Yes, sir. 12 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do we have any data 13 on the number of suicides in the facility over 14 the last 10 years, or the number of homicides? 15 SCOTT ANDERSON: I'm sure we could get 16 that. Yeah. 17 DONNA HOFFMAN: Mr. Upchurch has it. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Sir? 19 JAMES UPCHURCH: I have the statewide 20 number of homicides since 2000, if you want 21 those. 193 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: We'd be interested 2 in that. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If you could come 4 forward to the microphone, Mr. Upchurch. 5 JAMES UPCHURCH: Starting in 2000 -- 6 wait. Let me get my stuff straight here. There 7 were eight. In 2001, there were four. In 2002, 8 there were seven. In 2003, there were five. In 9 2004, there were five. In 2005, there were 10 eight. In 2006, there were 10. In 2007, there 11 were nine. 12 As far as suicides, in 2000, there were 13 four. In 2001, there were two. In 2002, there 14 was one. In 2003, there were four. In 2004, 15 there were three. In 2005, there were two. In 16 2006, there were seven. In 2007, there were 17 four. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Those are successful 19 suicides? 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Completions. 21 JAMES UPCHURCH: Yes. 194 1 And if I may, you had asked another 2 question that I could provide you some factual 3 information. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Please. 5 JAMES UPCHURCH: You had asked about 6 the relationship, staff-to-inmate ratios. 7 Statewide, the staff-to-inmate ratio 8 for all staff is one staff person to 4.3 inmates. 9 And statewide, for the uniformed correctional 10 officer series, there's one to 5.5. At Charlotte, 11 correction officer -- I mean, the staff ratio of 12 all staff to inmates is 1.1 to 2.7. And for the 13 correctional officers, security series alone, the 14 ratio is one to three. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. 16 Are you aware, Ms. Hoffman, of any 17 other inspectors who have been transferred or 18 removed, terminated, disciplined, who have had 19 any contact with CCI? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: Not that I'm aware 21 of. 195 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So this is the one 2 time that somebody has been removed from your 3 office; is that correct? 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct, from CCI. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: From CCI. 6 And nothing refreshes your recollection 7 about why he was removed for cause? 8 DONNA HOFFMAN: No. I'm pretty sure it 9 had something to do with a false report, but I 10 don't remember the specifics of the false 11 report. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you don't 13 remember if he was terminated or sent somewhere 14 else? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: To follow up, 17 Captain Anderson, are attempted suicides 18 considered passe, or are they something that you 19 would expect the shift captain to take rather 20 seriously and take further action? 21 SCOTT ANDERSON: We take all, either 196 1 gestures or comments, very seriously. We 2 immediately remove the inmate from the cell, put 3 him in a secure location, and have one-on-one 4 observation, until he can be checked by a medical 5 and mental health staff. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And Captain, do you 7 have a recollection, showing you the case summary 8 of Case 0153, if you could hand that to him, 9 Ms. Hoffman, does that refresh your recollection 10 of this incident on January 8th, '06? 11 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. I don't 12 remember this incident. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: You do not 14 remember? 15 SCOTT ANDERSON: I don't remember the 16 incident. If this inmate were to have attempted 17 to hang himself, I might not have known the 18 particulars of why. But I was never made aware, 19 that I remember, that he was threatened by other 20 inmates. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you remember the 197 1 inmate? 2 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you remember the 4 subjects? 5 SCOTT ANDERSON: I do know Inmate 6 Kaiser. I do know Inmate -- 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I don't think -- I 8 don't think they want to use names. 9 SCOTT ANDERSON: Oh, I'm sorry. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. 11 SCOTT ANDERSON: I do know both 12 inmates. I don't ever remember the one inmate 13 being housed with anybody. Come to think of it, 14 I don't remember seeing either one of them housed 15 with anybody. That's not to mean they weren't. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: There's not a great 17 deal of detail in these six paragraphs on the 18 event, but it indicates that the assault on the 19 inmate by another inmate occurred at night on 20 January 7, after he had been moved to the "A" 21 block. 198 1 And were you -- on January 7, '06, were 2 you in charge of the 4:00 to 12:00 shift? 3 SCOTT ANDERSON: I do not remember, 4 sir. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When did you start 6 working as the shift supervisor for that shift? 7 SCOTT ANDERSON: I do not remember the 8 exact date. There was actually -- at that time, 9 there was two captains assigned 4:00 to 12:00, 10 with the relief thing. There was two of us 11 there, depending on what night it was. There 12 could have been two of us there. And I don't 13 remember. I don't know what the date of that 14 was, what day it was, or whether I was on duty 15 at that time or not. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Does the fact 17 pattern of -- that's alleged here, of an 18 individual, an inmate who was for security 19 purposes moved to a different cellblock, alleges 20 that he was assaulted in the face by another 21 inmate the first night he was in the new 199 1 cellblock, and assaulted with a knife, that with 2 love letters that were physically found and 3 corroborated, confirming testimony by another 4 inmate, and an attempted suicide, is that common 5 fare at CCI? 6 SCOTT ANDERSON: I don't believe so, 7 sir. 8 Had he made the allegation that he was 9 punched by his roommate, he'd have been removed 10 from that cell and checked by medical 11 immediately. It doesn't take an inmate 12 attempting suicide for us to jump into action. 13 All he has to do is tell somebody that he feels 14 threatened by his roommate, or that -- an inmate 15 in that quad, for instance, and he'd be moved 16 from that area. But if he alleged that he was 17 assaulted, he'd be checked by medical 18 immediately. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And Ms. Duran, do 20 you ever -- are you familiar with or do you 21 recall ever, without using his name, you or any 200 1 of your staff inspecting this complainant, if you 2 can see the name of the inmate? 3 Do you see the name of the inmate 4 there? 5 GAIL DURAN: Mm-hmm. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 7 GAIL DURAN: I would have no way of 8 knowing without checking the medical record. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Again, attempted 10 suicides happen very often in CCI? 11 GAIL DURAN: I don't know what the 12 ratio is. I just know that they are taken 13 seriously, and they are referred to the 14 appropriate personnel. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. So -- and 16 those are kept, and there's written documentation 17 kept, of any inspection, I take it? 18 GAIL DURAN: Correct. That would be in 19 their medical jacket. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And if it's 21 taken seriously, I take it that whoever was on 201 1 duty in the nursing office would remember an 2 attempted suicide 25 months ago? 3 GAIL DURAN: No, sir, not with 1,000 4 inmates. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So how frequent is 6 an attempted suicide at CCI? 7 GAIL DURAN: I would have no way of 8 knowing that information. 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: Sir, if I may speak to 10 the investigation, according to the findings, 11 there was no evidence to support that there was a 12 sexual offense by the inmate. The alleged victim 13 admits that there were just words between the 14 inmate and the witnesses also indicated that 15 there was nothing. There was an investigative 16 effort, and the witnesses' testimony conflicted. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. And you don't 18 know anything about it other than what we're 19 reading. 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: Right. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the individual 202 1 who conducted this investigation was removed for, 2 best we can tell, inaccurate reporting. 3 So I'm just -- I wanted to make sure 4 I'm understanding the sworn testimony here that 5 nobody can remember this incident of attempted -- 6 of physical assault, sexual assault, attempted 7 suicide, with corroborating written evidence and 8 sworn testimony. Nobody can remember it. 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: Other than what we have 10 here. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: We deal with thousands 13 of investigations a year, statewide. There's no 14 way that we can remember each individual 15 investigation. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And in the course of 17 preparation for this Review Panel on this 18 institution, what records did you have occasion 19 to look at? 20 Ms. Duran, why don't we start with you. 21 GAIL DURAN: I didn't review any 203 1 records. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Didn't look at any 3 medical records? 4 GAIL DURAN: No, sir. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. What about 6 sexual assault, rapes, penetration, anything? 7 GAIL DURAN: No, sir. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So it's just 9 whatever you can recall from your seven years? 10 GAIL DURAN: Yes, sir. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And how about 12 you, Captain Anderson? 13 What did you have occasion to review? 14 SCOTT ANDERSON: The same case files 15 and the actual allegations made against staff. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, what actual 17 allegations? 18 SCOTT ANDERSON: As far as what was 19 reported. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Just those four 21 pages that we're talking about? 204 1 SCOTT ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And you 3 didn't have any other documentation that you've 4 been provided or you've requested to review to 5 refresh your recollection about sexual assault at 6 CCI; is that correct? 7 SCOTT ANDERSON: No, sir. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And Ms. Hoffman, 9 what did you do? 10 What did you review to prepare for your 11 testimony? 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: I reviewed all the 13 documents that you have before you. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: We've done a comparison 16 with what was reported on the survey, compared 17 with what our findings are as far as what is 18 reported. Of the 37 PREA incidents, 34 of those 19 were sexual harassment. Of those, we had eight 20 incidents with conflicting testimony and involved 21 DRs being issued prior to the allegations being 205 1 made. There was conflicting inmate testimony, 2 also with DRs being issued prior to the 3 complaint being made. And there were four of 4 those. There was conflicting officer testimony. 5 DRs were issued in nine of the 12 incidents with 6 conflicting testimony. Conflicting -- 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And by DRs, those 8 are disciplinary reports against the inmate 9 complainant; is that correct? 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: Prior to the complaint 11 being made. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, okay. 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: There was conflicting 14 witness and then staff testimony in three of the 15 incidents. There was conflicting victim 16 statement in one of the incidents. Two of the 17 staff resigned in an unrelated issue in two of 18 the cases. Two -- or four of the people were 19 either unavailable or uncooperative. One person 20 moved to Honduras, and we couldn't contact them. 21 One of the incidents did not rise to a PREA. And 206 1 then we had two incidents that were referred to 2 management. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what management 4 would that be referred to? 5 DONNA HOFFMAN: The facility 6 management, those two issues. 7 Typically, any time an inmate makes an 8 allegation, it's reviewed by an inspector. And 9 it appears that the person who did the data entry 10 failed to enter the information that would 11 indicate why it was referred back to management, 12 so we don't have enough information on those two 13 incidents, and we'll address those individually. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you know 15 something else about those two? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: No, I don't. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: Other than they were 19 referred back to management, and I know what the 20 standard procedure is -- that any incident or 21 allegation that's made by an inmate is referred 207 1 to an inspector and the inspector does a review 2 of the circumstances, and a decision is made as 3 to how the case is going to be assigned. If it's 4 referred back to management, there's usually more 5 information entered into the database. And in 6 these two cases, there wasn't enough information 7 entered into the database. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who has firsthand 9 information about how these complaints are 10 specifically handled at CCI during 2006, other 11 than -- would the warden be the best person to 12 ask? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: Probably the warden and 14 the inspector, Inspector Macaulay. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What eventually 17 happened in this case as far as the inmate was 18 concerned? 19 Was there any kind of mental health 20 follow-up for the individual based on his attempt 21 to complete suicide? 208 1 Was there any -- 2 DONNA HOFFMAN: That would be standard 3 procedure. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So -- 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But she doesn't 6 know. 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: But I don't know 8 specifically. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Okay. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The one common 11 denominator, Ms. Hoffman, of the 37 is that all 12 of them were dismissed for lack of evidence. 13 One was exonerated, and the rest were 14 dismissed for lack of evidence; is that correct? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: I believe so. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So doesn't that 17 suggest that every time there's a conflict in 18 stories, the CO's version prevails; is that 19 correct? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: As an investigator, you 21 can only go where the investigation leads you. 209 1 And if you don't have physical evidence to 2 support an allegation, then you can only base it 3 on what information is available. If we don't 4 have any injuries, we don't have any witnesses to 5 support the allegation, then it's going to be 6 unsustained. That doesn't mean it's unfounded, 7 doesn't mean that it didn't happen. We just 8 don't have enough evidence. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And on these forms, 10 just so I understand how they work, when it says 11 that they -- that this particular case was 12 downgraded to C 1, what does that mean? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: That means it was 14 closed without enough evidence to support or 15 refute the allegation. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And if it was -- 17 what are the other possible dispositions of OIG 18 complaints at CCI, besides C 1? 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: It could be a completed 20 "C" case, which is completed by an institutional 21 inspector. It could be sustained or exonerated, 210 1 or unsustained, as is the case. Downgrade is 2 basically an unsustained case. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Unless it involves 5 little time. Then it could be a sustained report 6 and still remain a "C" case, which is assigned to 7 an institutional inspector. An "A" case is 8 assigned to a senior inspector who works at one 9 of the field offices related to the facility. In 10 this case, it's the Tampa field office. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's the criteria 12 for determining whether one of these complaints 13 from an inmate is a "C" complaint, and therefore 14 goes to the institutional inspector, or an "A" 15 complaint that goes to a senior inspector? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: Typically, an "A" case 17 is the more serious case, but there are cases 18 when the workload of the institutional inspector 19 is so high that, in order to relieve some of the 20 cases assigned to that person, senior inspectors 21 come in to assist, so they would be assigned 211 1 cases that typically would be a "C" case. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what's an A 1? 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: Is a downgrade, similar 4 to what you're seeing here. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: The investigation was 7 conducted, and there was not enough evidence to 8 sustain, support, refute, the allegation. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So an "A" 10 case that gets downgraded is an A 1? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: A "C" case that's 13 downgraded for insufficient evidence is a C 1? 14 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you would 16 expect, it's standard procedure, for these, 17 these -- for there to be a case summary, not a 18 form number, but a case summary and a case diary 19 work record for -- for every allegation of sexual 20 harassment or sexual assault? 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: There would be an 212 1 inspector general log sheet. 2 Is that what you're talking about, for 3 a case summary? 4 Yes. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You told me what 6 should be -- 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What should we find? 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: This is a case summary. 10 It's an inspector general log sheet, is what we 11 call it. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Log sheet. 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: And then there should 14 be -- if it's a downgrade, there should be what 15 we call an IG short form. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. Okay. Would 17 there be an IG short form for an A 1? 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Let's look at 20 Case 1838, incident date 5-10-06. 21 (Sorting through documents.) 213 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: 1838? 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mm-hmm. Inspector 3 James Mitchell. 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Okay. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: We have two pages 6 from your office, a case summary, and an e-mail 7 from Pete Mitchell, senior prison inspector. 8 Is there anything else in OIG's files 9 on this allegation of sexual voyeurism by a 10 correctional officer? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: There should be a short 12 form attached. I'm not sure why there isn't. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Anything else that 14 should be in a case of this nature in the file? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'd have to look at it 16 and see what it says, but -- 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, no. I mean -- 18 oh, okay. So the allegation may determine 19 whether there should be more documents, more 20 forms in the file on this? 21 Is that what you're saying? 214 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: It could. I mean, if 2 it's -- if there's videotapes, or -- without 3 looking at it to see what this says. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. There's not 5 much to this. Why don't you just take a second 6 to read it, and tell me what else should be in 7 the file in this case. 8 (Reading through document.) 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: Based on what I'm 10 reading, there should be a short form here. The 11 case was downgraded due to conflicting officer 12 testimony. The inmate received a DR for obscene 13 and profane acts prior to the incident where he 14 was observed by the officer in the nude and 15 stroking his penis, his erect penis. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mm-hmm. Should 17 there be, ordinarily, any other documents in your 18 files besides a short form and this case summary, 19 or log-in sheet, as you called it? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: Nothing that I see. 21 There was no video obtained, because of 215 1 -- the retention period had expired. The inmate 2 waited a period of time before reporting the 3 alleged incident, so the video was no longer 4 available. He waited almost two months. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you say that 6 there was conflict between the correctional 7 officer's testimony? 8 DONNA HOFFMAN: The officer's testimony 9 and the inmate's testimony conflict. And there 10 was a DR written by the officer. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Before the 12 allegation? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: Before. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And in your 15 experience, if two inmates' versions are in 16 conflict, does that always mean there's not 17 enough evidence? 18 I mean, you don't weigh the credibility 19 of one inmate, what motives he or she might have 20 had that -- in this case he, that might make his 21 version more credible than the others? 216 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: Two inmates? 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah, two inmates. 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: Or an inmate and an 4 officer? 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Two inmates. 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: In this case, it was 7 just one inmate. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I understand. 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'm sorry. 10 Can you re-ask? 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. I'm just 12 asking when there are two stories from two 13 different inmates, does that always mean 14 insufficient evidence because they disagree? 15 Or is there any weighing that should be 16 done by the inspector to say, well, this person 17 has a reputation for lying, and they have a 18 motive to not see or to see something; the victim 19 didn't? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: If you have an inmate 21 witness who's saying it didn't happen, and you 217 1 have an officer who's saying this didn't happen, 2 and an alleged victim who's saying it is, then, 3 yes, we're going to weigh in favor of the two 4 people who said that it didn't happen. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about when 6 you're weighing between the staff member and the 7 inmate? 8 Do you give the benefit of the doubt to 9 the staff member every time? 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: If there's no other 11 physical evidence to support the allegation, yes. 12 We're going to weigh the staff member. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And what if 14 there is no statement or observation by the staff 15 member at CCI, but there are two inmates, one 16 alleged victim, and the other cellmate, and they 17 have two different stories? 18 Is that ever going to be anything other 19 than insufficient evidence? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'm sorry. 21 If there's -- 218 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Two inmates, inmates 2 do not coincide in their story, what do you do? 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: And there's no staff? 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No staff that 5 remembers seeing anything or doing anything, it's 6 an inmate-on-inmate incident: He made me do this 7 to his private parts, and the other one says, no, 8 I didn't. 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: And there's no physical 10 evidence? 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let's take that, no 12 physical evidence. 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: Then there's nowhere we 14 could go with that. That would exhaust 15 investigatively, unless we had video evidence to 16 show that there was something that happened or we 17 had a physical injury. It's one inmate's word 18 against another. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what if there is 20 physical injury? 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: Then we -- that is 219 1 weighed, and those cases are typically 2 submitted. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what should be 4 in the file of a case where there has been a 5 physical injury? 6 In other words, are we going to see 7 something from the case that Ms. Ellis was asking 8 about, where someone was punched in the face, 9 should we expect to see in a file, from the 10 nurse's medical station, something, as Ms. Duran 11 said, as an ordinary course, they would prepare, 12 should we see some kind of an alleged assault, a 13 battery report, at the end? 14 DONNA HOFFMAN: If the inmate reported 15 it within a timely matter -- 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 17 DONNA HOFFMAN: -- he would have been 18 taken to medical. He would have been examined. 19 He would have been photographed. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: And, yes, all that 220 1 would have been in there. 2 If it was reported, as in this one case 3 we're talking about now, a month and -- almost a 4 month later -- 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: -- then no -- or almost 7 two months later. There wouldn't be anything. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And would you expect 9 to see, in the case of an attempted suicide, 10 would you expect to find something more in that 11 file more than a short form and a case summary? 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: It would be likely 13 handled as a separate case, the attempted 14 suicide. It would not be combined with the 15 alleged sexual offense. The alleged sexual 16 offense would have been handled separately. They 17 would have been assigned two separate case 18 numbers, and the medical documents would have 19 gone with attempted suicide. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So in 21 response to our document requests, you may not 221 1 have produced the attempted suicide that we were 2 just talking about because -- 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: -- there was a 5 separate case number, and it didn't involve 6 sexual assault? 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. 9 Well, if we could, Ms. Von Hoene, have 10 the -- any medical evidence under a different 11 case number with respect to the attempted 12 suicide, that would be great. 13 KATHLEEN VON HOENE: I'll check. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? 15 KATHLEEN VON HOENE: I'll give you a 16 complete rundown. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: A complete rundown. 18 Okay. 19 Well, why don't we break for an hour's 20 lunch, and reconvene at 1:45. 21 And we may have more questions for this 222 1 panel. 2 Thank you. 3 (A luncheon recess is taken.) 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: If I may, I'd like an 5 opportunity to clarify something, please. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Absolutely. 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: I did find the 8 information out regarding the Inspector Kent. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Brent -- Brian Kent, 10 uh-huh. 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: Maybe I need to 12 explain. 13 We have literally thousands of 14 investigations a year, so there's no way that I 15 can remember every incident. I'm not trying to 16 avoid your question or trying to sidestep. We 17 absolutely want everything to be clear. We tried 18 to prepare for what we thought you would want 19 specific to PREA. I didn't realize that 20 individual personalities or incidents dealing 21 with individual inspectors would come up. 223 1 So what I did, I contacted the person 2 who would know the most about it. 3 The incident with Inspector Kent 4 involved a use-of-force incident, where he did 5 the investigation, and in his opinion the amount 6 of force used was not inappropriate. When it was 7 reviewed by the use-of-force unit and top 8 administrative staff in the IG's office, the 9 chief inspector and inspector supervisor, they 10 determined that it was inappropriate. When he 11 was approached about that, he disagreed. He said 12 in his opinion, based on his training, he didn't 13 see the amount of force used to be inappropriate. 14 Our department says that if there's a 15 disagreement between the inspector and the 16 supervisor, the supervisor's word is what's 17 taken. He did not want to change it, so he was 18 given an opportunity to step out of his position, 19 and he did. He resigned. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And where did you 21 get that information over the break? 224 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: The chief inspector. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. You gave him 3 a call? 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes, I did. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Great. 6 And what's the chief inspector's name? 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Douglas Stephens. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: PH or V? 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: PH. 10 And as to -- and I'm not sure that you 11 asked me about inappropriate remarks by staff. 12 People in security, as an inspector, 13 would not openly say things inappropriate in 14 front of an inspector, because they would be the 15 subject of an investigation. However, I've done 16 many investigations that involve inappropriate 17 conduct by staff, many of which were sustained. 18 So -- and I can't answer to each of those, 19 because we're talking about 25 years of 20 experience, and I wouldn't remember every 21 investigation I've ever done. 225 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you do recall, in 2 your experience, inappropriate jokes being 3 discussed by staff, in your experience? 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Not being discussed by 5 staff, but I've done investigations where 6 officers were alleged to have made inappropriate 7 remarks or inappropriate behaviors, 8 staff-offender relationships, and I've conducted 9 those investigations, some of which were 10 sustained; some were not sustained. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And have you had 12 that experience with any staff at CCI? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: No. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 15 Ms. McLaughlin, if you'd raise your right hand, 16 we're going to swear you in. 17 (The witness was placed under oath.) 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: And I have one other 20 thing regarding the "A" form, the A 1 form. 21 After speaking with Janene on the break, I didn't 226 1 realize that the Tampa field office, which is 2 where Charlotte Correctional Institution is, has 3 taken on a new format for their "A" form. 4 Instead of this short form, they're doing the 5 same information, only they're doing it in an 6 e-mail. But it's still -- it's still an A 1 7 case. It's just in a different format. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Thank you. 9 Any other clarifications of your 10 testimony? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: That's it. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Okay. 14 Ms. McLaughlin, I'd like to ask you about your 15 fellow inspectors, your colleagues. We certainly 16 have heard about Inspector Kent, and the 17 follow-up. And we note that he is named on a 18 number of the cases that we have as the 19 inspector. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Six. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes. And there are 227 1 a few other names that seem to appear over and 2 over. And you might want to help me with the 3 pronunciation -- 4 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Okay. 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: -- of 6 H-o-c-h-u-l-i. 7 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: That's Hochuli. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Hochuli? 9 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, ma'am. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Okay. Inspector 11 Hochuli also seems to appear quite often in the 12 cases that we have here. 13 I'd like to know if, to your knowledge, 14 have any of these inspectors been transferred? 15 Are they still around? 16 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Inspector Hochuli 17 transferred to the Department of Agriculture. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And how recently 19 was that? 20 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: That was back in 21 August or September of 2007. 228 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: In 2007. 2 Do you know whether he left under any 3 kind of pressure or under any -- 4 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: No, ma'am. He did 5 not. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Just an ordinary 7 transfer? 8 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, ma'am. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do any of the other 10 inspectors that you've worked with, within the 11 last, say, five years, are they still pretty 12 consistent staff there or have others -- 13 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I've only 14 been with the inspector general's office since 15 July of 2006. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I see. 17 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Since that time, 18 they have been consistent up until Hochuli, 19 Inspector Hochuli changing positions, or changing 20 jobs. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: To your knowledge, 229 1 have any of your fellow inspectors been 2 disciplined? 3 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Not that I'm aware 4 of, not since I've been in the inspector's 5 office. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you have 7 had -- excuse me. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you have had 10 opportunity or occasion to review any applicable 11 files to answer that question? 12 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Whether they've 13 been disciplined or not? 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Right, any of the 15 CCI inspectors who have -- who appear, and I'll 16 list them for you, on the 37 sexual harassment 17 complaints in 2006: Hochuli, C. Macaulay, J. 18 Mitchell, G. Montenegro. We talked about 19 Mr. Kent. Mr. Hochuli appears in 11 of the 37, 20 or 12. And then there are four by the name of 21 "not mentioned." And that's it. 230 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: If they would have 2 received any kind of discipline, that really 3 wouldn't have been common knowledge to me. That 4 would have been between them and their supervisor 5 and higher up. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sure. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And you yourself 8 appear, I think I am counting, 1, 2, 3 -- 7? 9 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Actually, I believe 10 I -- out of the ones that I have in the packet, I 11 believe 10 of them were assigned to me. 12 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And in each and 13 every one, the case, the cases, ended with the 14 case downgraded, for one reason or another, that 15 we're looking at, due to insufficient evidence, 16 downgraded due to -- 17 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah. Actually, I 18 had one exoneration, and the others were 19 unsubstantiated. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's the 21 difference between the one that was exonerated 231 1 and the other, all the 36 others that are -- 2 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, exoneration 3 means it did not occur. You have proof. You 4 have factual evidence that the allegation did not 5 occur. Where -- if something is unsubstantiated, 6 that means you can't prove beyond a reasonable 7 doubt whether it did or did not happen. You 8 don't have proof either way. And then you have 9 substantiated, which means, yes, you do have 10 proof it did happen. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'd like to have 12 you talk a little bit about how the -- how the 13 investigations work. I'm looking at one here, 14 officer sexually harassed him by telling him to 15 engage in certain behavior. And just a few lines 16 here on my summary -- 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Could you give them 18 the case number? 19 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: What case number, 20 please? 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I'd be happy to. 232 1 Case number on that is 06-5-1945. 2 And I don't select that one for any 3 other reason than it's the first one on this 4 particular page for me. 5 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Okay. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Typically, how do 7 you perform an investigation on an allegation of 8 this nature? 9 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: When a complaint is 10 made, it's reported to the field office 11 supervisor assigned to the case, whether it's RM, 12 refer to management, or an actual "A" case or "C" 13 case. If it's a "C" case assigned to me, I then 14 begin the investigative process. I get with the 15 victim, or complainant. I get their statement of 16 what happened. I look at the fixed-wing video, 17 interview any witnesses that they have brought 18 out in their statement as witnessing the 19 complaint. Depending on the type of allegation, 20 I might look at DR history. I might look at 21 medical records. I might send him to medical. 233 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Mm-hmm. 2 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Might take photos. 3 Once I get the complainant victim statement, 4 witness statements, and any other evidence 5 finding that is needed, then I interview the 6 subject of the case, the complaint. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And in this one, 8 where disparaging remarks were made, becomes a 9 little more difficult, I would think, in terms of 10 trying to ferret out the truth. 11 How -- what would you do with this 12 particular case, or how did that investigation 13 proceed? 14 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I interviewed the 15 inmate, got his statement of what his complaint 16 was, tried to get date, time, location, what was 17 said, who was present, who witnessed it, who 18 heard it, you know, all the information I can 19 from the victim, or complainant. And in this 20 case, there were no witnesses. He said there 21 were no witnesses. So I interviewed the inmate, 234 1 and interviewed the officer, and that was the 2 extent of investigation that I could do for this 3 particular complaint. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And the officer 5 denied that this occurred? 6 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, ma'am. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And the inmate 8 insisted that it did? 9 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, ma'am. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So then you use a 11 number of other measures, then, in arriving at 12 who was telling the truth? 13 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, you also -- 14 you know, video evidence is available, but, 15 again, our camera system at Charlotte CI does not 16 have audio. So you might see someone at the 17 front of the cell, but you can't -- I can't prove 18 or know for a fact what was said at that cell 19 front. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about -- did you 21 look at the video on this case? 235 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: On this one, I do 2 not see where -- because usually, whenever I do a 3 video review, I put it in the investigation. 4 This appears no, because he -- the incident date 5 occurred on 6-24 of '06. It wasn't assigned to 6 me until 7-13 of '06. And due to the amount of 7 caseload, it may have taken me a day or two or 8 time to get to that particular case. So since I 9 do not have anything documented in here, I did 10 not review fixed-wing. I did not, and it was 11 most likely due to the time limits of the 12 retention of the fixed-wing video. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So an incident that 14 happened on June 24, allegedly, and was assigned 15 to you on July 13, 20 days later, it's your 16 thought that you didn't get around to asking for 17 the video until another 11 days after your -- 18 after it was assigned? 19 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, actually, 20 actually, looking back, I did do the report on 21 the 19th. Therefore -- 236 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Should have been a 2 video still around? 3 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: There should have 4 been, unless there was something that may have 5 been wrong with the camera system on that date or 6 something like that. 7 Because usually, if you look in my 8 other reports, if I reviewed the camera, you'll 9 see that I'll put in there that the camera was 10 reviewed and what the findings of that videoing 11 was for the camera. 12 On this particular one, I can't say for 13 sure why it's not documented in this particular 14 report. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And where's the 16 short form that should be in here? 17 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: We do ours via 18 e-mail. On PREA downgrades, we do e-mail format 19 in our region. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 21 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: So this is the 237 1 actual report. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. 3 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Same information 4 that would show up in a short form, so to speak, 5 but it's just a different format. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Gotcha. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Without a witness, 8 without a recording, is there any way that you 9 might have been convinced that the inmate was 10 perhaps telling the truth? 11 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: If he had 12 witnesses, other inmates that -- 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Without, with lack 14 of witness, no witnesses, he has no one that saw 15 this, no one that heard this, but for him this 16 happened, is there -- what else could he possibly 17 do or what else might come into -- 18 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: You just have to 19 weigh credibility of your people involved. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the credibility, 21 you'd defer to the credibility of the 238 1 correctional officer in every one of these cases; 2 is that right? 3 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Pretty much, yes, 4 sir. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And if I may? 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Please. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So we don't know why 8 the video wasn't consulted, and we -- do you know 9 if this individual was double-bunked? 10 Did he have a cellmate? 11 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: By this particular 12 report, I cannot. I can't tell by this 13 particular report. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is it your 15 understanding that you don't need to include on 16 these case summaries or anything, or the short 17 form e-mails, any reference to where the incident 18 occurred? 19 Is that not required information? 20 Because about half of these -- 21 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: It's not required. 239 1 It's helpful. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 3 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Keep in mind, with 4 this particular case, not making excuses, but I 5 had made inspector on July 1st of 2006. So I was 6 still new to the process. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 8 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: So -- 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sure. 10 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Like I said, I'm 11 not making excuses for that. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No, no. That's -- 13 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: It is relevant a 14 little bit. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sure. 16 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: But usually 17 whenever there is an investigation, there's two 18 people in the cell, usually the roommate is 19 interviewed. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Hoffman, from 21 the regional office standpoint -- is that how we 240 1 refer to your office? 2 DONNA HOFFMAN: My office is central 3 office. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Central. 5 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'm in Tallahassee. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. All right. 7 From Tallahassee's standpoint, would it be 8 important to your office to know whether there 9 was a particular dorm, particular wing, 10 particular quad, where -- that had an abnormally 11 high number of alleged sexual harassment charges 12 coming out of it? 13 Would that be important for you to 14 know? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So why don't 17 you ask your institutional inspectors to write 18 down somewhere on the form where the incident 19 happened? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: I believe it's tracked 21 in the MINS system. 241 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's the MINS 2 system? 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: Management Information 4 Notification System, it has to be put on there. 5 It may not say specifically what dorm, but it 6 will say whether it was in a climbing unit or a 7 housing unit. It tracks the time of day. It 8 goes into the shift. 9 What else does it track? 10 There's a list of things that's 11 standard on the MINS that's coded, and we do 12 track it. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Because otherwise, 14 you're not going to know if there's some trends 15 that seem to be worrisome; is that correct? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: Otherwise, we won't 17 know. Yes. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I'm 19 looking at a summary here on the information that 20 you have provided. 21 Do we know whether any of these 242 1 inmates -- do we know their CM status? 2 Is it indicated? 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Not always. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So my question then 5 on this particular case, what was the CM status 6 on this individual? 7 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I would have to 8 look him up in our database to see what his 9 status was at this particular time of the case. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I would be 11 interested in knowing the CM status on several 12 of these cases. 13 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Okay. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Perhaps all of 15 them. Might be significant in terms of 16 credibility. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is CM status 18 similarly optional for your reporting in the same 19 way as the place of the incident? 20 Is that your understanding, it's not 21 required to mention what their status is? 243 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah. And 2 actually, in most, a lot of the reports, I don't 3 specify the CM level. However, I do report what 4 cell or what dorm, what quad. Like I said, this 5 was just a new thing, but that housing 6 information, dorm, bunk, quad, that's a normal 7 part of my investigative reports, now that I've 8 gotten familiar. But I haven't been specifying 9 the CM level at the time of the incident. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do you find that it 11 might be significant? 12 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Absolutely. Yep. 13 I will be incorporating that into my reports. 14 That's not a big deal to add that, because we 15 look at that anyways when we are doing the case. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If I was to tell you 17 that 20 out of the 37 have no indication of where 18 the incident took place, would that surprise you? 19 It wasn't just you. 20 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Actually, yes, it 21 would. Yeah, it would. I mean, I believe 244 1 Inspector Hochuli was not too far before me 2 coming as an inspector, so -- but the seniors had 3 been there for a long time. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Who were the 5 seniors? 6 Who had the most seniority of the folks 7 that I just listed a few moments ago, between 8 Hochuli, Macaulay, Mitchell -- 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: Macaulay is a senior. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And Kent? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: Macaulay is a senior. 12 Montenegro is a senior. 13 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Mitchell is a 14 senior. 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: Mitchell is a senior. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. 17 Macaulay is a senior? 18 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Mm-hmm. 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: Macaulay, Montenegro. 20 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: He didn't mention 21 Montenegro. 245 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. But, all 2 right, yeah, Montenegro is here. 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: Mitchell. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 5 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't remember who 6 else you mentioned. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That might have been 8 it. 9 And Kent, was he a senior? 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: Kent was an 11 institutional. 12 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Kent was an 13 institutional. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So Hochuli, Kent, 15 and McLaughlin were not seniors? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 17 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Correct. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Did we get an 19 answer as to why some of these cases have, under 20 the inspector column, have indicated "not 21 mentioned"? 246 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: Are they RM? 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: These cases where 4 we don't have any -- 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: Are they RM'ed? 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: RM'ed? 8 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Under discipline. 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: Refer to management, 10 under the class code? 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, you tell me 12 that. 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: Assignment code. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 51006 -- 1046. 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'm sorry? 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Case No. 10460904. 17 DONNA HOFFMAN: Have you got the -- 18 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Here's 1046. 1046 19 was referred to management. 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: It was referred to 21 management, so it wouldn't have been assigned. 247 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: If you look down 2 there, the disposition, about halfway down the 3 page, you see disposition, and it showed it was 4 referred to management. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about 1478? 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: 1478 was RM'ed. 7 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Referred to 8 management. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And how about 10 1289, Macaulay? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: That's who it would 12 have been assigned to. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, I'm sorry. 14 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 15 What about 0904? 16 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Referred to 17 management. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And what happens 19 with referred to management? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: It wouldn't have been 21 assigned to an inspector. 248 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: It's given to the 2 facility administrator to address. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I see. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the facility 5 administrator is who, in '06? 6 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: The warden. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The warden? 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So it goes straight 9 to the warden? 10 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Mm-hmm. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Why? 12 Is there any reason why those cases? 13 Would it be specific to the individual 14 case, or is there kind of a -- 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: Typically, they are not 16 assigned referred to management. That's what I 17 discussed earlier, that it may have been in data 18 entry, where the information wasn't provided in 19 full detail, because it's not indicated on the IG 20 Logs entry why it was referred back to 21 management. I mean, normally, it is referred to 249 1 an inspector. They do a preliminary review. Or 2 when the incident is initially reported, the 3 information reported shows that there's no 4 investigative issues for the inspector general's 5 office, and it's referred back to management. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Why don't we take an 7 example of that. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yeah. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about 1046, 10 incident date 4-11-06. 11 So, Ms. McLaughlin, on that date, you 12 would not have been an inspector yet, right? 13 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I'm sorry. 14 What is the date? 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 4-11-06. 16 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: That is correct, I 17 was not. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So Ms. Hoffman, the 19 only document we have on this is the case 20 summary. 21 Do you have anything else? 250 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: Let me get to it. 2 What's the number? 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 06-5-1046, no 4 inspector indicated, and it was referred to 5 management. 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: Oh, here it is. 7 This is one of those ones I discussed 8 earlier, that it should have been addressed by 9 the IG's office in some form, but there's no 10 indication that it was. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This is an 12 allegation of threats, verbal harassment, and 13 sexual harassment by an officer, and this is not 14 the first such allegation against this particular 15 officer at CCI. 16 Why was this referred to management? 17 DONNA HOFFMAN: According to this, 18 there was no physical evidence and no 19 identifiable witnesses. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And I note that the 21 officer is accused of frequently making 251 1 homosexual slurs against the inmate, and 2 threatening to do him physical harm. 3 So this didn't merit even getting 4 referred to a facilities inspector? 5 DONNA HOFFMAN: It did merit it. It 6 just didn't happen. It was a failure of the 7 system. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, I see. So this 9 wasn't a -- this wasn't a conscious decision to, 10 well, this one we're going to refer to 11 management; this one looks serious, we're going 12 to give it to Ms. McLaughlin or Mr. Hochuli; and 13 this one goes directly to regional, region, or 14 central office, as an A 1, because it's really, 15 really serious? 16 There isn't that kind of triage going 17 on in '06 at CCI? 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: No, sir. It should 19 have been addressed by the Office of the 20 Inspector General. And if it was to be 21 downgraded or referred to management, it should 252 1 have been in more detail. The inmate should have 2 been interviewed. He should have been -- should 3 have been ascertained whether he had any inmate 4 witnesses or staff witnesses, if there was any 5 video, something to indicate why this was 6 referred back to management. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Now, having seen 8 this, and in your position as a supervisor of 9 inspectors, would this -- would this stand out? 10 In a facility where one of the five 11 captains can't remember even ever hearing a lewd 12 joke or reference ever made in 15 years, would 13 this stand out to you as something that you'd 14 want to follow up on, when a CO is accused of 15 making repeated homosexual slurs, sexual 16 harassment, and threatening to do physical harm? 17 You know, in hindsight, in your 18 judgment -- 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. This was -- 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: -- if this would 21 come to you today, would you say, we're going to 253 1 jump on this? 2 DONNA HOFFMAN: This would stand out, 3 and why it wasn't addressed. And as part of an 4 audit that we do with PREA, this would be 5 addressed with the chief inspector. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So this didn't get a 7 PREA number, did it? 8 DONNA HOFFMAN: It did not. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And to get a PREA 10 number, what do you have to do? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: Oh, I'm sorry. 12 Yes, it did. It would have gotten a 13 PREA number. It was listed as sexual harassment. 14 The class incident is what causes a 15 PREA number to be generated, at the very top, 16 where it says facility, and then it says class, 17 sexual harassment of staff-on-inmate. That would 18 have generated a PREA number. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So the three or four 20 that you said were RTM'ed -- 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: RM'ed, referred to 254 1 management. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: RM'ed, to refer to 3 the warden, when Warden Johnson is able to 4 testify, he -- it's your testimony that he would 5 be the person that would have seen these three or 6 four allegations; is that right? 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: They would have been 8 referred back to him to handle. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I see, also, an 11 indication here of an officer whose name appears 12 three times, as far as the allegations being 13 lodged against him. 14 Any comment on that? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: These are officers 16 assigned, if they are close management 17 inmates -- and most likely this incident -- 800 18 inmates in the population are close management 19 management -- the officers assigned to those units 20 are typically the same officers, because you want 21 experienced officers dealing with these type of 255 1 inmates. 2 And over -- I think one officer had 3 three complaints? 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Three. 5 DONNA HOFFMAN: Was that the most? 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I think that -- 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No, there's four. 8 DONNA HOFFMAN: Okay. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: There's four. 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: Over a yearlong period, 11 that's not a large number of complaints in a 12 close management unit. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Against one 14 particular officer? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: Against one individual, 16 especially an officer who's doing his job, and 17 the inmates are subjected to an officer to strip, 18 and he's following his procedures, and he's doing 19 his job the way it's supposed to be done. Some 20 of the inmates don't like that, so they will make 21 allegations. 256 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So they make 2 allegations as a way of getting back, to perhaps 3 blemish their records or to create problems, but 4 in no way out of an earnest, sincere, honest 5 attempt to bring attention to a bad situation? 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: We don't know that. 7 Every incident is looked at individually to 8 determine that. 9 But inmates do make allegations in 10 retaliation for DRs that are written, or if an 11 officer is doing his job and they're trying to 12 manipulate that officer out of his current 13 position, so that they can get another officer in 14 there who may not be as strict. 15 But every incident is looked at 16 individually to make a determination on whether 17 the inmate is telling the truth, and if we have 18 any physical evidence to support that. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. McLaughlin, what 20 is your understanding of the standard for proving 21 whether an incident occurred? 257 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, the standard 2 is what you find during your investigation, what 3 proof, what facts do you have, what hard-core 4 proof do you have that that particular allegation 5 occurred. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sure. And what I 7 mean by standard is, what level does that proof 8 have to rise to? 9 Is it more likely than not? Clear and 10 convincing evidence? Beyond a reasonable doubt? 11 What's your understanding of something 12 that's of enough proof so that an incident is -- 13 seems to have, quote, sufficient evidence to be, 14 quote, sustained? 15 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know how to 16 explain it. 17 Can you give your examples of levels 18 again, please? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, and I don't 20 know what standard is used in Florida, but you 21 could look at it in terms of percentages, if you 258 1 can quantity these things. More likely than not 2 would be 51 percent. Beyond a reasonable doubt 3 is right up there in the 90s. 4 Have you been trained -- what have you 5 been told is the template to lay over every set 6 of facts when you're done with your investigation 7 and say, all right, does it meet this standard or 8 not? 9 Does it -- is it more likely than not, 10 or is it reasonable doubt? 11 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I would have to 12 know for a fact. I'd be able to have to prove 13 did it happen, period. If I can't prove it did 14 happen, then can I prove it didn't happen? If I 15 can't prove either, then it's unsubstantiated. 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: I can answer that 17 question. It's the preponderance of the 18 evidence. It's not beyond all reasonable degree, 19 although that -- that would add to the discipline 20 level of the individual who was sustained, how 21 far it would go, if it would go criminal or not, 259 1 whether the state attorney's office would accept 2 the case. If it's 51 percent, then it's a 3 sustained case. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So 5 Ms. Hoffman, then, given the fact that the 37 6 instances of sexual harassment by staff, well 36 7 by staff, one by inmate-on-inmate, none of them 8 were sustained, one was exonerated, all the rest 9 were found unsustained, that indicates that 10 your -- these various inspectors, or your office, 11 or both, concluded that every single one of them 12 was below 51 percent? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes, sir. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And once the 15 investigation is over, and there's been a 16 finding, the inmates stay in the same location, 17 and are still supervised by the same? 18 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Again, it's going 19 to depend on the actual complaint allegation. 20 You know, if there is need to move them at the 21 beginning, you know, I mean, each incident is 260 1 going to be different, what's done. You know, if 2 it's a sexual battery case or sexual assault, you 3 might need to move that inmate immediately, you 4 know, as you're doing your investigation instead 5 of waiting until after. So each incident is 6 going to be dictated differently by the 7 circumstances of the complaint. 8 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So there is a 9 chance that the inmate would not have to be 10 subjected to that same supervisor or officer, 11 once he's lodged a complaint? 12 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: It's possible. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do you have 14 instances of cases where -- where the case was 15 not downgraded, and it was founded, that perhaps 16 mirror some of the examples that we're seeing 17 here? 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: Are you talking about 19 the same cases? 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Cases of staff 21 misconduct or sexual harassment. Do you -- do 261 1 your records indicate -- 2 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: You do? 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Could you give us 6 some numbers on that? 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Sustained cases, are 8 you talking about in Charlotte CI, or statewide? 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: No. We're talking 10 about this particular facility. 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: No. I can't give you 12 those numbers right off. I can obtain those 13 information. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Would they be 15 available? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: I can obtain sustained 17 cases from Charlotte, but I don't have that 18 information on the top of my head. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So it is available? 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: Mm-hmm. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Could we ask for 262 1 that? 2 I'd like to see that. It would be very 3 helpful. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let me ask you about 5 two cases, 1584 and 1585, occurred on the same 6 date, same inspector, Mr. Hockachuli (phonetic). 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Hochuli. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Hochuli. 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: He actually -- I saw 10 him at central office the other day, so I believe 11 he's actually back with our department. I'm just 12 not sure what section he's in. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So he's not with 14 agriculture? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: Right. I saw him day 16 before yesterday in central office. I think he's 17 with the patrol division. I'm not sure. Either 18 that, or he was up there. 19 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, he goes up 20 there for training and stuff. 21 DONNA HOFFMAN: Oh, okay. 263 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Okay? 2 DONNA HOFFMAN: I'm sorry. 3 Can you give me those numbers again? 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 1584, 1585, incident 5 date June 5, '06. 6 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Mm-hmm. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Got them? 8 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Mm-hmm. 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: She does, but I don't. 10 I separated mine by categories based on 11 how they were resolved. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 13 Ms. McLaughlin, this involves the same CO, two 14 different prisoners alleging the same words, in 15 different incidents, same actions, same day, 16 within a few cells of each other, at the same 17 time, shortly thereafter. 18 If both of them or one of them was 19 accurate in describing what the CO said and did, 20 would that constitute improper retaliation for 21 filing a grievance against that CO? 264 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Can you repeat the 2 question? 3 I'm sorry. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Both of these 5 prisoners say that the same officer approached 6 their cell, conducted a strip search, said in 7 vivid language about what they needed to do with 8 their asshole and if they wanted to go out to 9 recreation yard. And if -- and they said that he 10 was asking this of them because they had filed a 11 grievance. 12 If that's true, would that be improper 13 retaliation against an inmate for filing a 14 grievance? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: May I respond to these? 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No. I'd like to 17 hear Ms. McLaughlin, please. 18 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: The actual 19 conducting the strip search would not be. But if 20 statements were made, and could be proven, then 21 the statements quoted here would be improper. 265 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Did you have 2 something to add, Ms. Hoffman? 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes, I did. In these 4 two cases, there was video evidence to conflict 5 with what the inmate alleged, and these two cases 6 should have been exonerated instead of 7 downgraded. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have personal 9 knowledge about either of these events, other 10 than these two pieces of paper? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: No, other than what's 12 written here in the report. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So I take it it's 14 pretty easy for Tallahassee to figure out what 15 should be done with a case. All you need is a 16 paragraph on a case summary and the absence of a 17 video, and case exonerated. 18 Is that what I'm hearing? 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: Actually, the 20 investigation is conducted by either the 21 institution or senior inspector, and it goes 266 1 through the field office supervisor. We have 2 five field offices. In this case, it's the Tampa 3 field office. And if it continues to be either 4 an "A" case or a "C" case, it goes to another 5 level of review, which is central office. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, that wasn't my 7 question. 8 My question is, as supervisor of 9 inspectors in the central office, you just read 10 what we're reading, and didn't have too much 11 difficulty concluding that the right answer was 12 exoneration, in both of these cases, even though 13 Mr. Hochuli thought that they were downgraded for 14 insufficient evidence. 15 How can you be so perceptive of what is 16 the right disposition just on the basis of what 17 you're looking at here? 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: We have a standard for 19 what is exonerated. If we have video testimony, 20 or if we have multiple witnesses, staff 21 witnesses, and inmates who support those, and if 267 1 we have no injuries, no full injuries, if there's 2 multiple things that pull it together, and video 3 evidence is a very clear indication that it 4 either happened or it didn't happen or it could 5 have happened. In this case, the video shows 6 that the person wasn't even there, so it couldn't 7 have happened. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, let's take a 9 look at that. I'm looking at Mr. Hochuli's 10 e-mail, which I think Ms. McLaughlin said was the 11 equivalent of your -- 12 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Short form. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: -- short form. And 14 that's not what your investigator says. It says, 15 "Review of video did not reveal Officer Tiner in 16 front of Foutz's cell for any long length of 17 time." And similarly, same day, three minutes 18 earlier, the e-mail is sent, "Video did not reveal 19 any sexual harassment or Officer Tiner spending 20 an extended length of time in front of Henry's 21 cell." 268 1 So the video corroborated that the 2 officer stopped in front of both cells, on the 3 date in question, and somebody, I guess 4 Mr. Hochuli, is deciding that it wasn't long 5 enough for this CO to say 20, 25 colorful words 6 to somebody during a strip search. 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Okay. I understand 8 what you're saying. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yet, you don't have 10 any difficulty just saying exoneration, next; is 11 that your testimony? 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: No. I have to correct 13 myself, at least on this one. It's saying that 14 he wasn't there for any length of time. He also 15 conducted a strip search during that time. But I 16 would be mistaken in saying that one should be 17 exonerated. 18 Let me see with the other ones. They 19 say the same thing. 20 I apologize. I stand corrected. 21 But it would be unsustained. 269 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Can I ask another 2 one? 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Please do. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let me ask you about 5 3669. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I was looking at 7 that one, too. We were both looking at that one. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Another Mr. Hochuli 9 investigation, this incident occurred five and a 10 half months after Ms. McLaughlin assumed her 11 position, December 18, '06, but she was not the 12 inspector. 13 Do either of you have any independent 14 recollection of this complaint? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: Only what's available 16 on this paper. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. McLaughlin? 18 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Same. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In this case, two 20 other witnesses confirmed that this officer had 21 made sexual comments to this victim. The video 270 1 confirmed that he had stopped at the victim's 2 cell. There's no audio. 3 And would this constitute lack of 4 evidence, in your opinion, Ms. McLaughlin? 5 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: It's lack of 6 evidence, insufficient evidence, to sustain the 7 allegation. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's how you would 9 have -- you would have closed it, too? 10 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. I would have 11 downgraded this. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So what does it take 13 for it to sustain at 51 percent, when you have 14 not one but two -- earlier, when I asked about 15 why something wasn't sustained, it was, well, 16 there were no other witnesses. 17 Here you have not one but two witnesses 18 confirming the accuracy of what the witness 19 victim is saying. You have the video, albeit 20 without audio, confirming that the CO was there. 21 What -- and yet the CO, surprise, 271 1 surprise, says no, didn't say it, didn't do it. 2 Case closed. 3 Is that how you would have graded this? 4 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, by looking at 5 this particular investigative report, there were 6 two inmates that denied hearing Sergeant Krauss 7 make those statements. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And two that did? 9 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: And two that did. 10 Footage shows him at the cell front, 11 again no audio. The sergeant states he did not 12 say that, so with that information I would have 13 unsubstantiated. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Can we also look at 15 3448, where you, in fact, did the investigation? 16 And we're looking at the same -- the 17 same CO, the same officer. Case downgraded. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This? 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yeah. This is the 20 one that you just addressed. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 272 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And here you 2 have -- 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, right. 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: But we also have 5 Ms. McLaughlin working on this one. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And just out of 8 curiosity, and I don't have the larger view that 9 you have, Mr. Chairman -- 10 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: 3448. 11 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: 3448? 12 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, ma'am. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And in this 14 particular case, what can you tell me about your 15 decision here, case downgraded, due to 16 insufficient evidence? 17 Witnesses were mentioned but not 18 identified by name. 19 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, actually, I 20 was never able to get a sworn statement from the 21 victim in this complaint, because he was MIA in 273 1 Honduras. They had -- they had a warrant out for 2 his arrest. He had flown the country. So -- 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So he escaped? 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No, he didn't 5 escape. He deported. 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: He deported. 7 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, no, he was 8 on -- he was deported, but they can't find him. 9 They couldn't find him over in Honduras or 10 wherever he was at. So I was never able to make 11 contact with the victim to get a statement in 12 this particular case. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I see. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If we told you that 15 this same officer has no less than three of the 16 36 sexual harassment complaints coming out of 17 CCI, just in those 12 months, and given the 18 nature of what he's alleged to have done, not 19 just said, but making advances, stroking the 20 inmate, making -- groping himself in front of the 21 inmate's presence, and there are two other 274 1 separate incidents of a similar nature made 2 against the same officer, and those witnesses 3 weren't deported to Honduras, would that give you 4 any cause for doing a bit more investigation that 5 maybe the officer isn't so credible and maybe we 6 shouldn't exonerate or downgrade the other two? 7 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I complete a 8 complete investigation with every investigation 9 that I do. I don't do partial investigations. I 10 do everything for every case that I can, 11 regardless of the complaint, regardless of the 12 staff involved, regardless of the inmate 13 involved. So I do a complete, full 14 investigation. And then with my results from 15 that, I come to a conclusion. And it's just 16 going to depend on what evidence and information 17 I've obtained through that particular 18 investigation. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And Ms. Hoffman, in 20 Tallahassee, does anybody look at the number of 21 complaints and grievances, at least of a sexual 275 1 assault nature, or sexual harassment nature, 2 being filed in a particular institution and 3 against a particular correctional officer? 4 Does anybody look for patterns, as the 5 secretary was talking about this morning? 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: We have what's called 7 an early warning system. And it's specifically, 8 for example, use-of-force incidents. If an 9 officer reaches eight use-of-force incidents in 10 an 18-month period, an e-mail is automatically 11 generated indicating that he's been involved in 12 eight in 18. And it lists what those eight in 18 13 are. Those are referred back to the warden at that 14 facility, who has to complete a review of each of 15 the incidents that officer was involved in and 16 send a report, responding to how that review went 17 and what they determined. The officer is also 18 interviewed as part of the assignment, 19 evaluation, whether he's under any stress or -- 20 and I don't remember all the specific questions, 21 to be honest with you, to be able to respond to 276 1 that. And he is evaluated. 2 There's also one that deals with 3 officer conduct, but I don't know what all the 4 triggers are. Mr. Upchurch may be able to answer 5 that. 6 No? 7 I believe that -- I know that physical 8 abuse is one of the incidents, and it's a lower 9 number and a shorter period of time, but I don't 10 remember the specific -- I can find that out. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So physical abuse is 12 a trigger? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And use of force is 15 a trigger? 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: And maybe PREA 17 incidents, as well, but I'm not absolutely 18 sure. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. Von Hoene, can 20 we have any documentation of a uniform policy 21 or standard that is triggered in looking for 277 1 patterns of misconduct by staff? 2 DONNA HOFFMAN: Early warning system. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Early warning 4 system. 5 Who is P. Wooten? 6 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Patty Wooten, she's 7 our clerical data entry support at the Tampa 8 field office. She works directly for my 9 supervisor. 10 (Speaking indistinctly amongst 11 themselves.) 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, yeah. You 13 recall we were asking questions about the officer 14 who had not been to the academy and was not a 15 certified correction officer, and yet was working 16 under -- was working on the CM, among CM inmates? 17 DONNA HOFFMAN: When you spoke with all 18 the executive staff? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are either of you 278 1 familiar with that, that correctional officer and 2 how he could have had access for any amount of 3 time to close management inmates without even 4 having enrolled in an academy? 5 Do either of you have any information 6 about him or how that could have happened? 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't. 8 But have we determined that there was a 9 close management inmate that he had an encounter 10 with? 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Don't know. 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: Okay. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Chances are, if he's 14 at CCI, his chances are about 80 percent that it 15 was, but -- 16 DONNA HOFFMAN: They are about 80 17 percent. 18 I don't know, but I do know that, based 19 on what Mr. Sapp said this morning, the staff 20 were closely supervised. 21 (Speaking indistinctly among 279 1 themselves.) 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Can you take a look 3 at 0904? 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Mm-hmm. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Incident March 27, 6 '06, referred to management. 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Let me find mine. I 8 have notes on mine. 9 Was the number 92? 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: 0904, "E" dorm, this 11 is a CM quad. 12 By the way, Ms. McLaughlin, where are 13 CM inmates housed in CCI? Which dorms? Which 14 buildings? 15 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: "A" dorm, "B" dorm, 16 half of Echo dorm. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Half of Echo? 18 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, sir. And "F" 19 and "G" dorm. 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: I don't have that one. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Maybe you could 280 1 share with Ms. McLaughlin. It's not very long. 2 But there is a statement by the grievant. 3 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: And actually, there 4 are some CM inmates also housed in the "Y" dorm, 5 I believe. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. McLaughlin, were 7 you, in March of '06, were you at CCI? 8 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I was there, but 9 not in the capacity of inspector general's 10 office. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Let me just 12 ask you, then, if this was coming to your desk 13 today, if you would just read to yourself the 14 request for administrative remedy form that was 15 filed by the grievant, I just have a question 16 about it. 17 (Reviewing document.) 18 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Go ahead. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you -- how 20 would you investigate this allegation? 21 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: If it was assigned 281 1 as a case? 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. Well, if this 3 had not been referred to management, but had been 4 referred to you, how would you investigate it? 5 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I would start off 6 by getting with the inmate, meeting with the 7 inmate, conducting an interview, obtaining a 8 sworn statement from the inmate, hopefully 9 getting more detailed information than what's 10 listed in the summary, more specifics. And 11 depending on what information he gave me during 12 his interview, look at the fixed-wing video, 13 interview any witnesses, if he says there was any 14 witnesses to this. Again, it just would depend 15 on what he brought out in his interview of what 16 areas I need to look at for this particular 17 complaint. And once all that is done, then I 18 would interview the subject. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Should -- why do you 20 suppose this was referred to management? 21 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: I could not answer 282 1 that. That's something that I don't dictate or 2 decide. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: This inmate is 4 alleging that an officer has had an ongoing, 5 quote, very close relationship with an inmate in 6 a designated cell, that he names, and that he's 7 being watched by this officer when he is 8 unclothed. 9 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: What number are you 10 reading? 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm reading 0904. 12 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Okay. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And if there's a 14 case summary, there's a Part "B" response, saying 15 it's under investigation. There is a 16 handwritten -- 17 DONNA HOFFMAN: Oh, you have the actual 18 grievance? 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I do. 20 DONNA HOFFMAN: We're just looking at 21 the Inspector General Log. 283 1 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah. All I've got 2 is the case summary, so you're giving information 3 that I don't know about. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. I'm sorry. I 5 thought you had some information. 6 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Sorry. 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Let me see if I can 8 find that. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'll hand it to you. 10 But my question is, would you consider 11 this to be inappropriate for referral to 12 management? 13 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. Yes. 14 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: All PREAs are 15 assigned, or should be assigned, for 16 investigation. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Which one did you 18 want? 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: 0481, would just 20 like a little more information on that particular 21 case. 284 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Which number? 2 Oh, that's eight? 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yeah. 4 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: 0481? 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Yes. 6 DONNA HOFFMAN: This is one where the 7 officer resigned prior to the complaint being 8 made. And it was due to an unrelated issue. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How do you know it 10 was on an unrelated issue, Ms. Hoffman? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: It looked it up, but 12 I'm trying to remember what he resigned for. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you did do some 14 review on this? 15 DONNA HOFFMAN: I did. I will need to 16 ask general counsel, because I deal with the 17 discipline side of it. I've had two resign to 18 unrelated issues. One was accepting money from 19 an employee, and the other one was related to a 20 use-of-force incident. And they both resigned as 21 a result of those. I'm not sure if this is the 285 1 one who accepted money or it was the one who was 2 involved in the use-of-force incident. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And can an officer 4 who is accused of sexual harassment avoid 5 investigation, disciplinary or criminal, by 6 resigning? 7 DONNA HOFFMAN: Once they resign, 8 they're no longer under the Bill of Rights, and 9 we can't force them to be interviewed if it 10 doesn't rise to the level of the criminal, and it 11 goes to an outside, to a state attorney's office, 12 who pursues it farther. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Is that your 14 understanding, Ms. McLaughlin? 15 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So all bets are off 17 once he resigns? 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: Unless it's of a 19 criminal nature. 20 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Administratively, 21 yes. 286 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what if -- could 2 the facts, if the facts were alleging a sexual 3 assault, which -- is that a criminal offense? 4 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes. 5 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Mm-hmm. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What happens when 7 the individual resigns and is no longer under the 8 jurisdiction of the department? 9 DONNA HOFFMAN: We would seek the 10 assistance of the state attorney's office in 11 prosecuting. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you ever done 13 that? 14 DONNA HOFFMAN: None come immediately 15 to mind. 16 Actually, I think we did have one case, 17 not at Charlotte, where an employee or an inmate 18 was pregnant, and the employee resigned, and we 19 ended up having to get a DNA test, and it was 20 prosecuted. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, I'm not sure I 287 1 got an answer to my question about, can an 2 officer avoid further investigation by resigning? 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: If it's something that 4 does not rise to a criminal level, it's just an 5 administrative issue, once they resign they are 6 no longer under the Bill of Rights, and cannot 7 compel them. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what's your 9 understanding of a noncriminal sexual-related 10 offense in your department? 11 DONNA HOFFMAN: In this case, verbal 12 harassment, sexual harassment, would not be a 13 criminal offense. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So as long as they 15 don't touch them, they can say anything they 16 want, and it's not a crime? 17 DONNA HOFFMAN: It's not a crime. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And so if they tell 19 them -- if an officer, every night, is going to a 20 cell, and saying, you're never going to go to 21 recreation unless you pull down your pants and 288 1 masturbate yourself in front of me, never touched 2 him, but that's not a crime? 3 DONNA HOFFMAN: It's not a crime. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Not a crime? 5 DONNA HOFFMAN: Not according to 6 Florida statutes. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And you are 8 the PREA coordinator for all of the Florida DOC, 9 right? 10 DONNA HOFFMAN: Correct. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you're 12 instructing everybody on what is and isn't 13 actionable sexual misconduct; is that right? 14 DONNA HOFFMAN: Sexual misconduct is 15 defined by Florida statutes. I don't define 16 that. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And that's 18 your understanding of the Florida statute? 19 DONNA HOFFMAN: Yes, sir. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That coercion of any 21 kind, extortion, can never be a crime in Florida? 289 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: Sexual misconduct is 2 defined by Florida statute, and I have the 3 definitions somewhere, as anal penetration, 4 physical contact, contact with the penis and the 5 mouth, the finger. There's several, and I'm not 6 quoting it verbatim, but it is -- it's in the 7 policy. I can tell you exactly what it says. 8 Sexual misconduct is referred to as 9 consensual oral, anal, or vaginal penetration, or 10 union with the sexual organ of an inmate or an 11 offender and an employee. An employee of the 12 department who engages in sexual misconduct with 13 an inmate or offender without committing the 14 crime of sexual battery commits a felony in the 15 third degree. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So without 17 committing the crime of sexual battery -- 18 DONNA HOFFMAN: That's sexual 19 misconduct, is the crime, what this is about. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And it does or 21 doesn't require touching? 290 1 DONNA HOFFMAN: No. That's what it's 2 saying. These are the things that require sexual 3 misconduct. And then sexual battery is higher 4 than this. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. So as 6 long as there's no touching, a CO in any of the 7 institutions in your department can say whatever 8 they want of a sexual or nonsexual nature to an 9 inmate, and if disciplinary action is commenced 10 or a grievance is filed, as long as he resigns, 11 that's the end of the matter for that officer? 12 DONNA HOFFMAN: We make the attempt to 13 try and resolve it through other means, and we 14 try to interview the officer, but we cannot 15 compel him to be interviewed in an administrative 16 matter. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You have anything 18 else? 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: No. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ms. McLaughlin, do 21 you have any ideas about how the department could 291 1 improve the culture or environment in the -- at 2 least among close management inmates and staff, 3 with respect to sexual remarks, harassment, 4 assuming they're happening? 5 From your day-to-day review of all 6 these grievances, do you have an opinion as to 7 some suggested way of improving, cutting down on 8 some of these grievances, improving the 9 atmosphere, assuming the atmosphere is not 10 perfect? 11 JANENE MCLAUGHLIN: Well, we can always 12 reiterate to our staff of professionalism, which 13 we do anyways, but we can continue doing that. I 14 think as it was stated earlier, improvement of 15 training, there's always room for improvement 16 with just about anything. So training and 17 reinforcing to our staff of professional behavior 18 would be a step in the right direction, or, you 19 know, we're already doing that, but to continue 20 doing that. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, thank 292 1 you both very much. 2 I'll ask for the next panel: 3 Lieutenant Colon, Warden Skipper, Colonel 4 Tomlinson, Assistant Warden Mount. 5 Good morning, gentlemen. 6 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Good morning. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you for your 8 patience. 9 May I swear you in, please? 10 (The witnesses are placed under oath.) 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Could each of you 12 identify yourselves for the record, and tell us 13 your rank and job responsibilities, please? 14 DAVID COLON: Good afternoon. I'm 15 Lieutenant Colon, Charlotte Corrections 16 Institution. I'm the administrative lieutenant, 17 currently the administrative lieutenant. I've 18 been employed with the Florida Department of 19 Corrections for approximately eight years, a 20 little over eight years, and among some of my 21 duties are the movement and housing assignment of 293 1 the inmates. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And have you had 3 those responsibilities for the last eight years? 4 DAVID COLON: No, sir. I was newly 5 promoted to administrative lieutenant, but prior 6 to that I was the transportation and housing 7 sergeant, so I still had those responsibilities, 8 also. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So for eight years? 10 DAVID COLON: Not for eight years, sir. 11 I was an officer prior to that. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. How long have 13 you had anything to do with the housing 14 assignments? 15 DAVID COLON: Approximately, three 16 years, four years. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Three to four years? 18 DAVID COLON: 2003, 2004, I was 19 promoted to sergeant. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Skipper, Warden 21 Skipper? 294 1 POWELL SKIPPER: I'm Powell Skipper. 2 I'm currently the warden at Martin Correctional 3 Institution. During the time period in question, 4 I was assistant warden for programs at Charlotte 5 Correctional Institution, and a member of the 6 ICT, and we reviewed work program, housing -- 7 work program, housing issues, and made status 8 recommendations to the state transportation 9 office. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Great. And when did 11 you leave CCI? 12 POWELL SKIPPER: 2007. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you remember the 14 month? 15 POWELL SKIPPER: March. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you're now 17 warden at which institution? 18 POWELL SKIPPER: Martin Correctional 19 Institution. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. Colonel 21 Tomlinson? 295 1 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. I'm 2 Rodney Tomlinson. I've been employed with the 3 Department of Corrections for 18 years now. My 4 previous employment was -- I was a major at 5 Charlotte Correctional Institution from January, 6 2006, to March, 2007. And I got promoted to 7 colonel, Everglades Correctional Institution, in 8 Miami. I was there approximately eight, eight 9 months, and I lateral transferred back to 10 Charlotte, so now I'm colonel at Charlotte. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When did you come 12 back to Charlotte? 13 RODNEY TOMLINSON: It was October, 14 2007. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Thank you. 16 BEN MOUNT: I'm Ben Mount. I started 17 with the department in 1989 as a CO. In 1990, I 18 was promoted to a sergeant. I worked in security 19 until '98, and then went into classification. In 20 2000, I was promoted to supervisor of the 21 classification department. And then in October 296 1 of 2007, I was promoted to assistant warden at 2 Hendry Correctional Institution. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Assistant warden 4 of -- 5 BEN MOUNT: Hendry -- 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Entry. 7 BEN MOUNT: -- Correctional 8 Institution. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, oh, oh, oh. 10 At a different institution? 11 BEN MOUNT: Yes, sir. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. 13 But you were at CCI as supervisor of 14 the classification department from 2000 to 15 October of '07? 16 BEN MOUNT: Correct. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I guess, start with 18 you, Mr. Mount. 19 And I'm sorry. I want to make sure -- 20 I should call you Associate Warden Mount? 21 BEN MOUNT: Assistant Warden. 297 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. 2 Assistant Warden, as supervisor of the 3 classification department, what were your 4 responsibilities at CCI? 5 BEN MOUNT: I had six senior 6 classification officers that worked for me, and 7 one regular classification officer. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And -- go ahead. 9 BEN MOUNT: The six senior officers had 10 the caseload of close management and the mental 11 health unit. The one classification officer had 12 the few open pop inmates that we had on the 13 compound. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 15 BEN MOUNT: All right. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And tell me, what 17 were you classifying? 18 The risk of the offenders; is that 19 right? 20 BEN MOUNT: Right. When the inmates 21 come into the institution, we would review their 298 1 records. Okay. The classification officers, the 2 open pop inmates, we would go through their file, 3 look at their file, and make recommendations for 4 job assignments. Classification officer would 5 make the recommendation to the institutional 6 classification type. We would review it, and 7 either approve it or deny it. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And those, you're 9 making recommendations of job assignments, did 10 you say? 11 BEN MOUNT: Right, for inmates in open 12 population, not in close management. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. How about the 14 CMs? 15 What was your involvement with them? 16 BEN MOUNT: All right. Inmates that 17 come into CM -- 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 19 BEN MOUNT: -- once they got to 20 Charlotte, we reviewed their placement to see if 21 the placement was appropriate. 299 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Placement in work? 2 BEN MOUNT: In close management. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In housing, in other 4 words? 5 BEN MOUNT: Right, or in that status. 6 If an inmate came in to us that maybe 7 came from another institution that had one dirty 8 urine, DR, and we looked back through his record 9 and the inmate had not had any other dirty 10 urines, the ICT may look at him and release him 11 from close management. I would have probably 12 been in Close Management 3 level. We would have 13 recommended that he not be in close management. 14 Our recommendation would have gone to the state 15 classification officer. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And by "we," you're 17 referring to the institutional classification 18 team? 19 BEN MOUNT: Correct. Correct. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Which is Colonel 21 Tomlinson, yourself, and Warden Skipper? 300 1 BEN MOUNT: And Mr. Skipper, correct. 2 We made up the team 90 percent of the time. 3 The inmates that were in close 4 management, as far as job assignments, each of 5 the classification officers made the 6 recommendation. All right. CM 1 inmates could 7 not have jobs, because they can't come out of 8 their cells. All right. CM 2 inmates could be 9 either assigned to a restricted labor squad, or 10 as housemen. Okay. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: House? 12 BEN MOUNT: Housemen, to come out and 13 clean up. They could not be out of their cells 14 unrestrained, being CM 2, so they were actually 15 put in showers, and cleaned showers, and then 16 moved back to their cell, just to give them 17 something to do. 18 Restricted labor squad, the 19 restrictions were that we put on the inmates that 20 they could not have a life sentence. They could 21 not have any sex offenses, no escape charges. 301 1 Okay. And depending on the reason for their 2 placement in close management, we made the 3 decision if we recommended that inmate to go out 4 for an RLS, restricted labor squad. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Mount, I want to 6 be sensitive to the fact that, as Ms. Von Hoene 7 requested at the beginning of the hearing, that 8 some of this classification information is 9 restricted, and I don't want to put you in an 10 awkward position. 11 So suffice it to say, we're only 12 interested in the extent to which consideration 13 of sex offense, sexual assault, either as victim 14 or predator, or other matters related to 15 harassment or rape, ever came up with the ICT. 16 BEN MOUNT: All right. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So CM 1, they can't 18 come out of their cells, so they can't come -- 19 they can't come out of their cells unrestrained, 20 so they can't have any jobs; is that correct? 21 BEN MOUNT: Correct. 302 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I mean, they 2 physically could come out and go to the showers? 3 BEN MOUNT: Yes, sir. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And they could go in 5 the yard? 6 BEN MOUNT: Correct. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. CM 2s 8 clean the showers? 9 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Correct. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And we won't 11 reference the other qualifications for restricted 12 labor. 13 Is there anything else that CM 2s can 14 do? 15 BEN MOUNT: No, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about CM 3s? 17 BEN MOUNT: The CM 3s, with them being 18 the least restrictive, can come out, be housemen, 19 inside grounds, work on the grounds inside the 20 institution, inmate barbers. They can do the 21 laundry within the dorm. They serve the meals. 303 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Is laundry a 2 place where you can have one-on-one contact 3 between an inmate and a staff member? 4 BEN MOUNT: Let me clarify. The 5 laundry is done in the laundry, and then brought 6 to each one of the dorms. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. 8 BEN MOUNT: Okay. And brought into the 9 dorm, and the inmate distributes the laundry in 10 the dorm. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, I see. So being 12 involved with the laundry doesn't mean the 13 washing of it? 14 BEN MOUNT: Correct. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You're distributing 16 it when it's delivered? 17 BEN MOUNT: Correct. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. For any of 19 the three of you who were part of the ICT, at 20 CCI, how do you -- do you give any consideration, 21 or did you, in '06, in assigning jobs to the fact 304 1 that an inmate had been the victim of sexual 2 assault in the past? 3 Would that ever come into your -- on 4 your radar screen? 5 Is that something you would want to 6 know? 7 POWELL SKIPPER: No, sir. Speaking 8 for -- as a member of the team, it really did 9 not. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Colonel Tomlinson? 11 RODNEY TOMLINSON: No, sir. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Mount? 13 BEN MOUNT: No, sir. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about, would 15 you want to know if that inmate had been accused 16 of being a sexual predator? 17 POWELL SKIPPER: Yes, sir, we would. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Not just a convicted 19 sex offender on the street, but allegations that 20 there had been -- he'd been a predator on another 21 inmate, or, for that matter, on a staff person? 305 1 POWELL SKIPPER: Yes, sir. And as part 2 of the intake process with classification, one of 3 the things that they would do would be to review 4 the inmate master record. And classification 5 officers would be providing us with that kind of 6 information if they had a history of predatory 7 actions against other offenders. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you would ask for 9 that information, and expect to have it as part 10 of your classification for work assignments? 11 POWELL SKIPPER: Yes. For work 12 assignments, no, sir, but I would like to have 13 that information. I wanted that information. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You wanted that 15 information for what classification, then, if 16 it's not for work assignments? 17 POWELL SKIPPER: Well, for protection, 18 for protection, for general informational 19 purposes, so that we understand -- 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Colonel Tomlinson? 21 I'm sorry. 306 1 POWELL SKIPPER: So that we understand 2 our offender population. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let me back up and 4 ask, what classifications would your team do? 5 Would you have anything to do with 6 reconsidering whether an inmate should be in CM 7 versus open pop? 8 POWELL SKIPPER: Yes, sir, we would. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would you have the 10 prerogative to reconsider where the individual is 11 housed, be it CM 3, CM 2? 12 POWELL SKIPPER: Yes, sir. We would 13 have input into what the various status level 14 was. If we felt that the offender needed to be 15 in a higher status level, and we could justify 16 that movement to a higher status level, then we 17 could make the recommendation to the state 18 classification office that he be increased in 19 status. 20 And also, if we felt that he was 21 erroneously assigned to a specific status level, 307 1 whether it be CM 1 or CM 2, then we could make a 2 recommendation to the state classification office 3 that he be reduced in status level, too. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how about a CM 2 5 or CM 3 that is double-bunked? 6 Would you ever be involved in class -- 7 making a decision about whether they should be 8 moved to a different cell? 9 POWELL SKIPPER: We could be involved 10 in that. Yes, sir. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Colonel Tomlinson, 12 do you ever remember making a decision that a CM 13 inmate at CCI should, for safety reasons, be 14 moved to a different cell? 15 RODNEY TOMLINSON: No, sir. Basically, 16 only -- we will see if the inspector, off of the 17 inspector general's office, contacts us prior to 18 an investigation or during the course of an 19 investigation, you know, that it was determined 20 that the inmate needed to be relocated to another 21 cell or another housing unit. And I've seen 308 1 that. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You remember that 3 being done, hearing from Tallahassee or the 4 regional office that somebody needed to be moved? 5 RODNEY TOMLINSON: No, sir. That would 6 be when it was referred to our inspectors, 7 institutional inspectors, if during the course of 8 their investigation they felt like the inmate 9 needed to be moved to another housing unit. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, I see. 11 So that wouldn't be your decision? 12 The ICTs wouldn't be involved in that 13 decision? 14 RODNEY TOMLINSON: No, sir. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So no relocation 16 would be within your ambit of the ICTs; is that 17 right? 18 POWELL SKIPPER: Now, one of the 19 things -- 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. I'm 21 sorry. 309 1 Colonel Tomlinson; is that correct? 2 RODNEY TOMLINSON: That's with, you 3 know, the exception of if it's a case or a 4 request for protection, then ICT certainly could, 5 you know, look at a request for protection as far 6 as relocating an inmate. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. If an inmate 8 was requesting protection from sexual assault for 9 sexual harassment, that would come before the 10 ICT; is that correct, sir? 11 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Is that 12 inmate-on-inmate, staff-on-inmate? 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let's start with 14 staff-on-inmate. I'd like to be moved from "B" 15 to "Y", to get away from this particular officer 16 who's hitting on me on a regular basis. 17 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. If it 18 was -- first, it would be reported to the 19 inspector general's office, Office of the 20 Inspector General, for investigation. Then once 21 that -- you know, an investigation, during the 310 1 investigation process, then us members of ICT 2 would get copied from the inspector general's 3 office as far as staff-on-inmate. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what other 5 classification decisions would ICT have? 6 You can reconsider status; you can 7 reconsider status from within CM, from 1 to 2 or 8 3 to 2? 9 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And you can -- and 11 you do job assignments; is that right? 12 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what are the 14 factors that you would want to consider, what 15 information would you want to know, before making 16 a job assignment, other than whether they are a 17 sex offender and whether they're CM 1, 2, or 3? 18 Mr. Mount, what other information would 19 you want to have as the supervisor of the 20 classification department for several years 21 before you made a job assignment of a CM? 311 1 BEN MOUNT: For CM 3, just to see if 2 they have an assaultive behavior -- 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Assaultive? 4 BEN MOUNT: -- be it sexual or physical 5 assault. We would reconsider making them housing 6 where they were out of the quad most of the 7 day. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what would be 9 evidence of assaultive behavior by a CM 3? 10 What would you want to look at? 11 BEN MOUNT: Past DR history, we do have 12 a tracking system, an electronic contact log, 13 which we can put in high-risk inmates, or inmates 14 that are predators, or inmates that have been 15 victims, and we can follow it on the electronic 16 log. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And does that 18 electronic log include grievances or complaints 19 filed by inmates against a staff member? 20 BEN MOUNT: No, sir. No, sir. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you would 312 1 never -- you would look at, you said, the CR 2 history, the criminal record? 3 BEN MOUNT: DR, disciplinary. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: DR, oh, the DRs. 5 BEN MOUNT: I'm sorry. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you would want to 7 know, with respect to a CM 3, before making an 8 assignment, whether they were a sex offender, 9 whether they had any DRs that involved 10 assaultive behavior? 11 BEN MOUNT: Right. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Anything else? 13 BEN MOUNT: No, sir. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you wouldn't ask, 15 and you wouldn't -- would see, any information 16 about whether other inmates or -- yeah, other 17 inmates had filed grievances against that inmate 18 as being a sexual predator? 19 BEN MOUNT: No, sir. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You think, would 21 that be germane before you send them to the 313 1 laundry or doing the laundry, or mail, or barber 2 shop, in hindsight, if you were king in the 3 forest? 4 BEN MOUNT: Sir, I really don't think 5 so, because the inmates are so closely supervised 6 in the CM units. I don't think it would 7 matter. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about, Colonel 9 Tomlinson, do you agree with that? 10 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Yes. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Or would you want to 12 know about grievances filed against the inmate? 13 RODNEY TOMLINSON: No, sir. I agree 14 with Mr. Mount's assessment. You know, close 15 management facility, and I've worked at open 16 population facilities and close management, and 17 the staffing we have at close management facility 18 is fully staffed. Well, like Mr. Upchurch and 19 the secretary and all them referred to earlier 20 is, there's 358 correctional officer positions at 21 Charlotte. So, you know, 200 -- 158 of those, 314 1 those positions, are gender-specific, so with the 2 other two being nongender-specific posts. But 3 based on the staffing of the housing unit, it 4 goes as far as levels. You know, you have level 5 one, which is critical staffing for our housing 6 units, and based on our security roster, you 7 know, reflects on how many staffing you have to 8 meet that level one, which the institution always 9 operates at a level one, you know, as referred to 10 as critical. Any given day, on any given basis, 11 you'll have four staff members, four to six staff 12 members, in a housing unit. That includes 13 lieutenant. We have a lieutenant that supervises 14 each housing unit, each CM housing unit. So that 15 lieutenant is in addition to the staff that's 16 normally assigned to that housing unit. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Major -- or, I'm 18 sorry, Colonel Tomlinson, when you were a major 19 at CCI from January '06 through March of '07 -- 20 I'm sorry. 21 Let me back up. 315 1 How long were you at CCI? 2 You've been with the department 18 3 years, but in any capacity how long have you been 4 at CCI, other than the seven months that you were 5 in Miami? 6 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Going on two years 7 now. The first 15 months as the major. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh, yeah. I'm 9 sorry. 10 Before you were a major, how long had 11 you been at CCI? 12 RODNEY TOMLINSON: I was promoted to 13 major at CCI. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 15 RODNEY TOMLINSON: So I started January 16 3rd, 2006 -- 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 18 RODNEY TOMLINSON: -- as major. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And when did you 20 start in any capacity as CCI, as a correctional 21 officer? 316 1 RODNEY TOMLINSON: That's -- 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: When's the first 3 time you set foot on Charlotte? 4 RODNEY TOMLINSON: January 3rd, 2006. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, from 6 your experience at CCI, how -- do you ever -- do 7 you ever hear any sexualized comments coming from 8 staff, either among themselves or directed at 9 inmates? 10 RODNEY TOMLINSON: No, sir. I do 11 not. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Mr. Mount, how about 13 you? 14 Have you in your tenure at CCI ever 15 heard of a sexual joke, a sexual derogatory name, 16 any staff ever say anything of a sexual nature 17 towards an inmate or among themselves over lunch? 18 BEN MOUNT: Yes, sir. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And ever hear a 20 staff member say it towards an inmate? 21 BEN MOUNT: In 18 and a half years, 317 1 yes, sir. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. How about in 3 the last two years at CCI? 4 BEN MOUNT: No, sir. Once the PREA 5 came out, and the department changed its policy, 6 things have changed drastically. You know, 7 we're -- as management, we're correcting officers 8 everyday for their language, same with inmates. 9 So, you know, I have not heard anything. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So what has changed? 11 The words or the fact that you are 12 correcting officers? 13 BEN MOUNT: I think the penalties now, 14 you know, the repercussions now, whereas before, 15 you know, nothing was ever done, but now there 16 are repercussions for their actions. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let's talk about 18 that. 19 How many correctional officers or staff 20 at CCI, to your knowledge, have ever been 21 disciplined for a sexual comment directed at an 318 1 inmate? 2 BEN MOUNT: Sir, I was not involved in 3 any officer discipline at all at Charlotte. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But folks talk. 5 Have you ever heard of a correctional 6 officer or staff being reprimanded, being 7 corrected, as you said that they are, you ever 8 heard of any of them being disciplined, formally 9 or informally, about their mouth, in terms of 10 sexual comments? 11 BEN MOUNT: No, sir, I did not. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But you're sure that 13 they're now being corrected? 14 BEN MOUNT: Yes, sir. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's there to 16 correct if nobody is saying anything? 17 I'm confused. 18 BEN MOUNT: No. What I'm saying is 19 that now if you hear an inmate use a foul word -- 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. We're 21 just talking about inmates, then? 319 1 BEN MOUNT: No, officers. 2 I'm sorry. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh. Okay. 4 BEN MOUNT: If an officer is using foul 5 language, you correct them. All right. You 6 know, tell them to watch what they're saying. 7 Not that I hear statements, you know, sexual 8 statements anymore. It's just language. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. I wasn't 10 talking about profanity. 11 I'm talking about, have you ever heard, 12 at Charlotte, a correctional officer, let's say 13 in a CM dorm, ever refer to an inmate in a 14 derogatory sexual way? 15 BEN MOUNT: No, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And Warden Skipper, 17 during your time at CCI, have you ever heard any 18 of that? 19 POWELL SKIPPER: No, sir. In my 31 20 years at corrections, I've heard things like 21 that, but in the last couple of years at 320 1 Charlotte, no, I have not. 2 One of the things that we've done is 3 made -- or our agency has done is made a 4 concerted effort to make this culture change, to 5 instill, you know, strong moral and ethical 6 values in our staff, and to indicate to them that 7 that kind of behavior isn't appropriate, and it 8 really started with PREA. It started with the 9 advent of us enacting PREA. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Lieutenant Colon, 11 you have been involved in the housing 12 classification for three or four years? 13 DAVID COLON: Yes, sir. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What do you want to 15 have in front of you? 16 What do you think is germane for a 17 housing assignment in CM? 18 DAVID COLON: Prior to -- excuse me. 19 Prior to receiving the inmates, we do 20 get notification as to, one, knowing whether it's 21 on our schedule, transfer date, which is one day 321 1 a week, Wednesday. We routinely get our general 2 population inmates and most of our CM inmates 3 from the reception center. And we do get other 4 CM inmates in throughout the week, but they are 5 scheduled. The other institutions let us know. 6 And we have that information, the name, and the 7 DC numbers. And prior to placing inmates in the 8 cell, we do look up their disciplinary history 9 prior to their arrival. And we determine whether 10 or not, if they're a CM 1, they don't need a 11 roommate; whether they're CM 2 or 3, they get a 12 roommate. 13 For those going into double-occupancy 14 cells, we take into account the characteristics, 15 the physical and behavioral, of the inmates. We 16 look up the DR history. And we look up if they 17 have any special reviews against any inmates on 18 the compound. If they do, they will be housed in 19 the dormitory on the other side of the compound. 20 Therefore, they won't have any contact with them. 21 And prior to placing any new arrive 322 1 inmates into double-occupancy cell -- excuse me, 2 sir -- the inmate is taken to the cell front by 3 the dormitory officer or the dormitory -- or, 4 excuse me, the dormitory sergeant or the 5 dormitory lieutenant. And they are interviewed 6 by those. One of the individuals must be a 7 sergeant or a lieutenant. They're interviewed 8 and asked if they can go compatible, whether they 9 can get along. And if they do, then they are 10 placed into that house, into that cell, and it's 11 all documented on a DC 6229 A. If they are not, 12 they find a compatible cell. They will call the 13 office, which I work out of, and they will try to 14 find a compatible inmate to put them with. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And where does that 16 interview take place? 17 DAVID COLON: It takes place at the 18 cell front with the inmate, with both inmates. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. So the 20 inmate is in the presence of the other proposed 21 cellmate? 323 1 DAVID COLON: Yes, sir. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And has there been 3 any thought given to asking the inmate privately 4 whether he's afraid of his cellmate? 5 DAVID COLON: They can also do that. 6 If they are -- at that point, they can say that, 7 look, I don't want to be in with the inmate, then 8 we're not going to put them in that cell if 9 they're not compatible. That's just not going to 10 happen. Then we would try to find him another 11 roommate. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And do you ask any 13 questions if and when the inmate was brave enough 14 to say, no, I don't want to be in with the guy? 15 Don't you say, well, why not? 16 DAVID COLON: At that point, the 17 dormitory sergeant or the lieutenant would ask 18 further questions, and they would separate the 19 two. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And where would the 21 further questions be asked? 324 1 DAVID COLON: There is officer stations 2 and a mental health station or education station 3 in the dormitory where it's enclosed, where they 4 have the mental health groups, the education 5 groups, and so forth. At that point, the 6 interview would be conducted there. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But he would first, 8 in order to get to that private interview, he 9 would first have to admit in front of the 10 proposed cellmate that he was not willing to 11 live with him? 12 DAVID COLON: Yes, sir. And that 13 rarely happens. Most of the time, they go into 14 the cell. There are a few occasions where the 15 inmate would say, I knew that inmate from Dade 16 CI, Broward CI -- or not Broward, but Dade CI, or 17 another institution, we had problems with him, or 18 with any gang affiliation, or something like 19 that. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Lieutenant, in your 21 experience, how are the inmates that appear to be 325 1 most vulnerable or likely to be -- become victims 2 of sexual abuse? 3 DAVID COLON: I wouldn't know how to 4 answer that, ma'am. I wouldn't know how. When 5 inmates come into CM, they're there for 6 management reason. They try not to show that 7 they're vulnerable. They all come in because 8 they need a high level of security, and they 9 normally don't come across vulnerable. They come 10 in there, they come in there with sort of an 11 attitude of that's why they're there. I haven't 12 seen any particular case that I'm aware of that 13 they came in where they were vulnerable, or they 14 came in looking vulnerable. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Well, let me -- 16 let's project to an inmate who's been around for 17 awhile. 18 DAVID COLON: Yes, ma'am. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are there any 20 characteristics that you have seen, in your 21 experience, that would indicate to you that an 326 1 individual might be vulnerable? 2 DAVID COLON: Well, during the inmate -- 3 on transfer day itself, when I would receive it 4 at that time, I would intake the inmates. At 5 that time, if an inmate who is quiet or whatever, 6 I will speak to him, talk to him with another 7 officer, just say, how are you doing? I'd ask 8 him questions to see if there is some type of -- 9 just to see if there is. But normally, they just 10 respond, no, sir, no, sir, I do not have a 11 problem, just tired, a long bus ride, things of 12 that nature. But we do take an effort to try to 13 find out. If somebody looks out of place, we do 14 try to find out if they have a problem. But if 15 they do not admit it to us, there's no way of 16 knowing. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you haven't been 18 given, in preparation for your housing 19 classifications, any kind of list of criteria, 20 template, form, questions to ask, that 21 specifically would help you identify someone who 327 1 is reasonably likely to become a candidate for 2 being somebody's -- somebody's bitch or 3 somebody's -- 4 DAVID COLON: Sir, could you repeat 5 that? 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you have -- are 7 you given anything in your training that says, as 8 part of your housing classification, please 9 consider that this -- if the person is small of 10 stature, perceived to be effeminate, describes 11 himself as transgender, describes himself as gay, 12 you see in their medical record that they have 13 suffered sexual abuse or sexual assault, you see 14 in their criminal record that they were a sex 15 offender, any of those things? 16 Have you been told any of those things 17 should ring a bell that this person might -- we 18 might not want to put them in with somebody who 19 is real street smart and might be a predator on 20 them? 21 DAVID COLON: Prior to placing them in 328 1 the cell, we do look at both his record, as well 2 as the person that's going into the cell with 3 him. If an inmate is typically 110 pounds, 5'2", 4 we probably would house them alone. More than 5 likely, we wouldn't house them with somebody 6 who's of bigger stature. 7 But we look at both the inmate that 8 we're receiving, plus the roommate, their 9 criminal history, their record, whether there was 10 any gang affiliations, prior to placing them into 11 the cell. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So other 13 than -- I'm sorry. 14 Were you done? 15 DAVID COLON: No, go ahead, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So other than 17 stature, whether they're over or under 5'2", 18 anything else that -- 19 DAVID COLON: Physical characteristics, 20 behavior characteristics, DR history, STG, STG 21 being security threat group, looking if there's 329 1 any gang affiliations. We wouldn't put two 2 opposite gang members together in the same cell. 3 We're just not going to do that. We will look at 4 all those factors, whether they have special 5 reviews of some sorts, they had a fight at 6 another institution, or the reason they came to 7 CM is because they fought each other, they would 8 be on opposite ends of the compound. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 10 DAVID COLON: We do look at all those 11 factors prior to placing inmates in their cells, 12 sir. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, have you been 14 given any training what factors should be 15 considered in order to prevent possible sexual 16 abuse? 17 DAVID COLON: The PREA training that we 18 receive yearly. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So in the 20 course of your classifications -- 21 DAVID COLON: We take into 330 1 consideration the PREA guidelines. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And what's 3 your recollection of the PREA guidelines, other 4 than stature? 5 DAVID COLON: Physical characteristics, 6 again, behavior characteristics, that subject. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And, like, what kind 8 of behavior characteristics, other than their DR 9 history? 10 DAVID COLON: Assaultive, and their 11 history outside on the street, we do look at 12 that, also, sir. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Anything else that 14 you understand would be germane to a PREA 15 determination for housing? 16 DAVID COLON: Off the top of my head, 17 sir, I cannot recall. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And how often 19 do you get that training? 20 DAVID COLON: Yearly, sir. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And when was 331 1 the last training? 2 DAVID COLON: It's on your -- when you 3 go on your yearly date, mine will be in 4 September. And also with that, if you do not get 5 100 percent on that course block, you have to 6 remediate on that. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. By 8 remediating, that means you take the class again? 9 DAVID COLON: Take the class over again 10 with an instructor, and then we go over it in 11 further detail. 12 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What about race? 13 Is it relevant? 14 Is it a factor when inmates are coming 15 in, and you are classifying them, and housing 16 them, and giving some consideration as to whether 17 or not they would be vulnerable, or for that 18 matter necessarily predators? 19 DAVID COLON: It's considered, ma'am. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Has there been 21 racial tension in your facility? 332 1 DAVID COLON: Not that I can recall, 2 ma'am. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Let me ask the ICT, 4 are you familiar with the work assignment 5 technical manual that's marked "restricted" and 6 last revised February 19 of this year? 7 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Yes. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If you could mark 9 the transcript at this point, that would be 10 great. 11 * * * * SECURE MATERIAL BEGINS * * * * 12 ******************************** 13 ******************************** 14 ******************************** 15 ******************************** 16 ******************************** 17 ******************************** 18 ******************************** 19 ******************************** 20 ******************************** 21 ******************************** 333 1 ******************************** 2 ******************************** 3 ******************************** 4 ******************************** 5 ******************************** 6 ******************************** 7 ******************************** 8 ******************************** 9 ******************************** 10 ******************************** 11 ******************************** 12 ******************************** 13 ******************************** 14 ******************************** 15 ******************************** 16 ******************************** 17 ******************************** 18 ******************************** 19 ******************************** 20 ******************************** 21 ******************************** 334 1 ******************************** 2 ******************************** 3 ******************************** 4 ******************************** 5 ******************************** 6 ******************************** 7 ******************************** 8 ******************************** 9 ******************************** 10 ******************************** 11 ******************************** 12 ******************************** 13 ******************************** 14 ******************************** 15 ******************************** 16 ******************************** 17 ******************************** 18 ******************************** 19 ******************************** 20 ******************************** 21 ******************************** 335 1 ******************************** 2 ******************************** 3 ******************************** 4 ******************************** 5 ******************************** 6 ******************************** 7 ******************************** 8 ******************************** 9 ******************************** 10 ******************************** 11 ******************************** 12 ******************************** 13 ******************************** 14 ******************************** 15 ******************************** 16 ******************************** 17 ******************************** 18 ******************************** 19 ******************************** 20 ******************************** 21 ******************************** 336 1 ******************************** 2 ******************************** 3 ******************************** 4 ******************************** 5 ******************************** 6 ******************************** 7 ******************************** 8 ******************************** 9 ******************************** 10 ******************************** 11 ******************************** 12 ******************************** 13 ******************************** 14 ******************************** 15 ******************************** 16 ******************************** 17 ******************************** 18 ******************************** 19 ******************************** 20 ******************************** 21 ******************************** 337 1 ******************************** 2 ******************************** 3 ******************************** 4 ******************************** 5 ******************************** 6 ******************************** 7 ******************************** 8 ******************************** 9 ******************************** 10 ******************************** 11 ******************************** 12 * * * * END OF SECURE MATERIAL * * * * 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Go back on the 14 video, please. 15 All right. Thank you very much, 16 gentlemen. 17 We'll have the warden after a 15-minute 18 break. 19 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Thank you. 20 (A break is taken.) 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Good afternoon, 338 1 Warden. 2 ADRO JOHNSON: Good afternoon, sir. 3 (The witness is placed under oath.) 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. 5 Would you please state your full name 6 and title for the record? 7 ADRO JOHNSON: My name is Adro Johnson, 8 middle initial "L." I'm the warden at Charlotte 9 Correctional Institution. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How long have you 11 been in that position, sir? 12 ADRO JOHNSON: I've been the warden at 13 Charlotte Correctional since March 30th, I 14 believe, of 2006. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I didn't hear that, 16 sir. 17 ADRO JOHNSON: March 30th, 2006. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: 2006. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And could you just 20 chart briefly your role with the Department of 21 Corrections since day one? 339 1 ADRO JOHNSON: Okay. I started over 32 2 years ago at the Florida State Prison as a 3 correctional officer. I started in June of 1975. 4 I was CO for five years. I made sergeant in 5 1980. I was a sergeant for seven years. I made 6 lieutenant at FSB and was there for 18 months as 7 lieutenant. I moved to Charlotte -- I mean, 8 Madison Correctional Institution, and made 9 captain. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What year was that? 11 ADRO JOHNSON: That was in 1989. 12 In 1990, I believe it was August, I 13 went to Walton CI as a major in August of '90. 14 In March of '93, I was promoted to assistant 15 superintendent. That was the title at the time 16 instead of warden. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And that was when, 18 sir? 19 ADRO JOHNSON: In March of '93. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And that was what 21 institution? 340 1 ADRO JOHNSON: Same institution, 2 Walton. 3 In 1995, I was promoted to a 4 superintendent, at the time, and that was at 5 Santa Rosa. It was a brand new institution. And 6 it opened up as close management. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? 8 ADRO JOHNSON: It was a designated 9 close management institution. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And that was 11 what year? 12 ADRO JOHNSON: In 1995. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: '95. 14 ADRO JOHNSON: And I was promoted in 15 August of '95, and we actually started housing 16 inmates there in September of '96. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you opened a new 18 prison? 19 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. I stayed there 20 until June of '99, and I moved to Apalachee 21 Correctional Institution, which is still in 341 1 Region 1, up in the panhandle. I stayed there 2 for two years, until June or July -- July of 3 2001, and moved to New River Correctional 4 Institution, which is right close to Raiford, 5 Florida, right across from FSP. I was there for 6 16 months, and was moved to Lake Correctional 7 Institution which was -- 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. 9 In what capacity were you at that -- 10 ADRO JOHNSON: Warden, I was warden 11 from Santa Rosa on. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 13 ADRO JOHNSON: The title changed back 14 in '99. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: From superintendent 16 to warden? 17 ADRO JOHNSON: To warden. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Got it. 19 ADRO JOHNSON: And I was at Lake from 20 March of 2003 until March of 2006. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So you've been 342 1 around? 2 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes, sir. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Sounds like it. 4 I'd like to know, Warden, please, how 5 are wardens selected? 6 ADRO JOHNSON: Well, you do your time. 7 If you do everything right, and you're good at 8 what you do, and your supervisors recognize you, 9 you'll eventually get promoted up the ranks. 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: So it comes to 11 someone's attention? 12 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I -- what is the 14 highest-ranking female in your facility? 15 ADRO JOHNSON: Up until last month, it 16 was assistant warden. She just got promoted to 17 warden. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: She just got 19 promoted to warden in another facility? 20 ADRO JOHNSON: At another facility. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: And she was the 343 1 assistant warden? 2 ADRO JOHNSON: She was assistant 3 warden. Now, I think the highest-ranking female 4 would be Gail Duran. She's a senior registered 5 nurse. I have a couple of lieutenant -- female 6 lieutenants, and about three -- let's see. Three 7 senior officers and classification that are 8 female. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What does it mean 10 to be gender-specific in your facility? 11 ADRO JOHNSON: Gender-specific is a 12 post that is assigned on the master roster for 13 security that is designated as male only. I 14 believe Mr. Upchurch explained that there had to 15 be a certain number of males, and on an evening 16 shift there had to be males in the dormitory 17 while shower time was going on. 18 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do women do cell 19 extractions? 20 ADRO JOHNSON: No, ma'am. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Even being one of 344 1 the two, watching a strip search, waiting for the 2 individual to be extracted? 3 ADRO JOHNSON: You're talking about 4 removing an inmate from a cell for a call-out? 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Right, from a 6 cell. 7 ADRO JOHNSON: A cell extraction is a 8 completely different thing. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I see. 10 ADRO JOHNSON: A cell extraction is 11 when the inmate is refusing to come out of their 12 cells, and you have to go in and get him. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Forcibly bring them 14 out? 15 ADRO JOHNSON: Right. 16 But a normal pull-out for a call-out, 17 usually it's two males doing it. That's not 18 normal practice. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: It's not normal 20 practice to include a female in that? 21 ADRO JOHNSON: Not during strip search. 345 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I see. 2 Do you have a SART team? 3 Do you have a SART team? 4 ADRO JOHNSON: No, ma'am. That was a 5 pilot program they just started up in Region 1 6 and 2. It hasn't gotten to us yet. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: You think you need 8 one? 9 ADRO JOHNSON: I'm willing to try 10 anything new. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, my question 12 is, do you think you need one? 13 ADRO JOHNSON: What we've got works 14 right now. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: How would -- how 16 would one find out about the types of programs 17 you have in your facility, specific programs that 18 inmates can engage in or do engage in? 19 ADRO JOHNSON: Well, if you pull up our 20 Web site, you'll see that we have education 21 programs for inmates that are in CM. They're all 346 1 in-cell. And they do pull them out periodically 2 to do testing in a group-type session, but most 3 of it is done cell front or he does it in his 4 cell. The teachers actually load carts up and go 5 into the dormitories and meet with the inmate at 6 cell front, help him with his schoolwork, back 7 and forth. But a lot of it is also done by 8 correspondence, back and forth, through the 9 education department. 10 We also have mental health programs, 11 where mental health staff come down to the 12 dormitories, and they make rounds in the cells. 13 We also have group sessions. And we have a 14 schedule that's fully loaded. I mean, they're in 15 there all the time. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What does your 17 mental health staff consist of? 18 ADRO JOHNSON: We have a behavior 19 health specialist. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you. 21 ADRO JOHNSON: We've had -- I think we 347 1 have six of those on board. 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I didn't hear you, 3 sir. 4 I'm sorry. 5 ADRO JOHNSON: Behavioral health 6 specialist or psychological specialist. We have 7 a contract agency we're using right now, and they 8 have a different title, but under the State it 9 would be psychologist specialist. And what 10 they're using is basically the same. It's the 11 same -- they have to have the same education, 12 same degree and everything to be a psychologist 13 or a behavioral health specialist. 14 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Warden, let me ask 15 you about your reaction to these high numbers in 16 the report. You've seen the report, I'm sure. 17 What -- what's your reaction to this 18 information regarding your facility? 19 ADRO JOHNSON: Well, frankly, I was 20 astounded. I mean, there's no way that that 21 could happen, that that amount of sexual 348 1 misconduct could have went on inside my 2 facility. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What do you base 4 that on? 5 ADRO JOHNSON: Years of experience, the 6 way we're laid out, the number of cameras we 7 have, the number of staff we have, the number of 8 interaction with staff, in and out of the 9 facility, just there's no way that that many 10 sexual liaisons could have happened. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many cameras do 12 you have, sir? 13 ADRO JOHNSON: Altogether, I don't know 14 the total count, but in each dormitory, there's 15 four quads. There's four cameras per quad, so 16 that's 16 cameras. You have them coming from all 17 different angles in each quad. Each quad, they 18 cover all the doors. Some of them may not have 19 the best view of a door, but they do cover it. 20 You can see whether somebody is standing at the 21 door. 349 1 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What is -- what's 2 your philosophy as a warden in your facility? 3 What is your philosophy in terms of how 4 you conduct business as the top-ranking 5 individual in that facility? 6 ADRO JOHNSON: As a warden, I let my 7 staff know that we're going to do the job. We're 8 going to do it right. We're going to do it by 9 the book. We're going to do the right things for 10 the right reasons. And if they don't do things 11 for the right reasons, then they don't need to be 12 here. 13 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do you feel that 14 that permeates throughout the facility? 15 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes, I do. Yes, ma'am. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many of the 37 17 grievances of a sexual harassment nature have you 18 reviewed? 19 ADRO JOHNSON: I've had an opportunity 20 to look at everything that's in the book. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And do you 350 1 have -- did you have any involvement with the -- 2 any of the A 1 or C 1 cases, any of the cases 3 that were downgraded to C 1 or A 1? 4 ADRO JOHNSON: Usually, if they're 5 downgraded to an A 1 or C 1, I don't have to take 6 any action. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 8 ADRO JOHNSON: And in the cases you all 9 were talking about earlier that were referred to 10 management, they shouldn't have been referred to 11 management in the first place. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you remember -- 13 well, why is that? 14 ADRO JOHNSON: Because that's not 15 normal procedure on the PREA. They have to 16 either sustain it, not sustain it, or exonerate 17 it. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you 19 remember any of those four coming to your office? 20 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. I remember one 21 specifically, I don't want to say names, so I 351 1 got to get the number out. 2 (Sorting through documents.) 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The case numbers are 4 0092, 1046, 0904, 1478. 5 ADRO JOHNSON: 0092 happened in January 6 of '06. I arrived in March of '06. 7 0904 also happened in March, prior to 8 my arrival. 9 1046, I'd have to check my records, but 10 I believe I took some discipline in that one. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Counsel, could we 12 add that to the list of documents, if we could 13 know, and any other documents about Case 1046? 14 ADRO JOHNSON: 0153, that was also 15 prior to my arrival. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What about 1478? 17 That was May 20 of '06. 18 (Sorting through documents.) 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Counsel, do you have 20 it? 21 (Indistinct response.) 352 1 ADRO JOHNSON: I'm sorry. I thought I 2 had all of them marked while you was talking 3 about it. 4 I found it. 5 Sorry. 6 Got to it just as he got his. 7 I'm not sure about this one. I'd have 8 to go back and pull the records, too, on that 9 one. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Same request 11 then, Counsel, for 1478. 12 (Sorting through documents.) 13 ADRO JOHNSON: There was also one on 14 1146. You'd asked me about a new guy. A new TA 15 got into a dormitory -- 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. Yes. 17 ADRO JOHNSON: -- and was allowed to 18 quit. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. 20 ADRO JOHNSON: The officer, or the TA 21 in question, had only been there for less than a 353 1 week. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Oh. 3 ADRO JOHNSON: He was assigned to what 4 we call "C" dormitory. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: "C" dormitory? 6 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. And that's where 7 we have mental health. And I believe it was 8 during feeding the inmate reached out and grabbed 9 the officer, and he tried to force his arm back 10 in, and that was an unauthorized use of force at 11 the time. And when we went to question him about 12 it, he says, I quit, and left. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you remember any 14 allegations that he had been labeled gay by staff 15 and inmates? 16 ADRO JOHNSON: Not necessarily that, 17 but we do get the grievance from Inmate Gartner, 18 Larry, that he was making homosexual 19 advances. By that time, TA Wallace was 20 already gone. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But at the time that 354 1 you confronted him about the use of force, you 2 hadn't received that complaint? 3 ADRO JOHNSON: No, sir. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And he was out of 5 your department at that point, so matter dropped? 6 ADRO JOHNSON: That's correct. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And it's your 8 testimony with respect to the -- at least 1046 9 and 1478, that occurred during your tenure, they 10 should -- they were not properly handled; they 11 should have been referred to OIG for inspection, 12 investigation? 13 ADRO JOHNSON: The OIG should have held 14 onto it and did the investigation, because that 15 went to them initially anyway. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And are there any 17 inmate grievances that you understand are 18 supposed to be referred to management? 19 ADRO JOHNSON: Every PREA is, and every 20 PREA is and every allegation of abuse. We have a 21 MINS system that you heard about earlier, which 355 1 is Management Information Reporting System. And 2 any allegations of abuse, any allegations of a 3 PREA, we take it at face value. We report it on 4 the MINS system. The IG's office then makes a 5 determination whether they want to investigate it 6 or refer it back to management. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. So there 8 shouldn't be any grievance that hadn't gone 9 through the OIG's office and been recycled, or, 10 you know -- not recycled, but sent back to you? 11 ADRO JOHNSON: I don't think the 12 distinction has been made between a grievance and 13 a reportable incident. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. A report. 15 All right. 16 Can you explain the difference, please? 17 ADRO JOHNSON: A reportable incident is 18 allegations of abuse, allegations of a PREA, 19 allegations of harm, or an escape, that kind of 20 stuff. There's a whole list of them in MINS. 21 And it's also restricted, so we don't have it 356 1 here with us. But anything like that is 2 reported. Now, that's a MINS, all right, when 3 you wind up getting a case from it, a case 4 summary, like this, if it's investigated by the 5 IG's office. 6 Now, an inmate has an opportunity to 7 file an informal grievance at the institutional 8 level. And then he has an opportunity after he 9 files an informal on certain things to file a 10 formal appeal to me at the institution. And then 11 if I turn him down, or he don't like what I say, 12 he can forward it on to central office for 13 further appeal. So that's a grievance. 14 These are IG investigations, is what 15 these are. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. So it's your 17 testimony that the -- 18 ADRO JOHNSON: A lot of the MINS 19 reports that are generated come from informal 20 grievances to the inspector or to my assistant 21 warden's office, and they assign them to one of 357 1 the OIC's to go initially talk to the inmate. 2 And then we do an MINS report. Okay. So that 3 starts out as an informal, but when it comes, 4 when it's reported on MINS, then the IG's office 5 decides whether to investigate it or refer it 6 back to management. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But it should always 8 go through that triage at OIG before it's sent 9 back to you; is that correct? 10 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes, once it's reported 11 on MINS. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So these four that 13 just say refer to management, without an IG 14 investigation, were not properly handled; is that 15 your testimony? 16 ADRO JOHNSON: That's basically what 17 Ms. Hoffman said, and that's what I'm saying. It 18 should not have been referred back to management 19 without some determination. 20 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I have one more 21 gender question: What is the gender breakdown in 358 1 your facility? 2 ADRO JOHNSON: Colonel Tomlinson 3 handles the roster everyday. Just off my head, 4 it's probably 65-35. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Sixty-five percent 6 of your staff is male? 7 ADRO JOHNSON: Male. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do we have any exact 9 figures? 10 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Yes. With the 358 11 security positions that we have at Charlotte 12 Correctional Institution, of those 358, 70 is the 13 female staff. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: For the record, of 15 358 security staff positions at CCI currently, 70 16 are occupied by females? 17 RODNEY TOMLINSON: Approximately 70, 18 yes, sir. 19 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are female. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Has that materially 21 changed since 2006? 359 1 ADRO JOHNSON: No, sir. It's basically 2 the same. We were, like, 40 positions down when 3 I first got there in 2006. We filled all 4 positions. But basically, it's the same. We 5 cannot turn down female officers that apply. 6 So -- 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Without belaboring 8 this issue, I continue to be curious about this 9 issue of blind spots, poor lighting, areas where 10 sexual assaults could possibly occur. And I know 11 we've listened to earlier testimony. 12 Would you address that issue? 13 ADRO JOHNSON: Well, basically, ever 14 since I've been with the department, the inmate 15 is assigned a place to be. We do what we do by 16 accountability of inmates. They're trained from 17 the time they come into the system that you have 18 to be here, and nowhere else. If you do, you got 19 to have a pass. And most of it applies to the 20 general population, because our CM inmates -- 21 they're escorted everywhere they go. When they 360 1 come out of the cell, and they go to recreation, 2 they go to medical call-out, they go outside for 3 anything, anything outside the cell, anything, or 4 anything outside the building, anything inside 5 the building, they're under escort. There's 6 always an officer there. Even during day room, 7 there's one to two officers present while 14 to 8 28 inmates are out. And they're always under 9 escort. There's always an officer there. 10 So as far as getting out in the blind 11 spots and getting to other areas, then they're in 12 an unauthorized area, but mostly that would apply 13 to general population. The general population 14 that I have, at my facility, is only about 250 15 inmates. There's only a dorm, one single 16 barrack-style dorm, and then half of a butterfly 17 dorm, that house population inmates. With the 18 250 I got, they're all busy. They're the support 19 for the 800 that I got that's in close 20 management. They're assigned jobs in laundry. 21 They're assigned jobs in food service. They're 361 1 assigned to clean up the yard. They're assigned 2 to do maintenance. And they're all under 3 supervision. 4 There's plenty of officers on the yard, 5 also. We also have cameras on the yard, 6 scattered throughout the institution, not just in 7 the housing area. And the one side of the 8 dormitory where the population is, that 9 houses the other side of it, houses CM, there's 10 also cameras on that side. 11 The only place we don't have cameras 12 for open population is in the barrack-style, 13 where there's 71 inmates on each side of that 14 dormitory. It's stacked up like barracks. But 15 you have at least two officers present there at 16 all times, and the elevated officer station, like 17 Mr. Upchurch talked earlier, in the other dorm. 18 So there's really no blind spots for them to be 19 in. There's correctional officers assigned to 20 the kitchen. There's a correctional officer 21 assigned to the laundry. 362 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: CM 3 is escorted by 2 how many folks? 3 ADRO JOHNSON: Usually -- 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How many staff? 5 Sorry. Not folks; staff. 6 ADRO JOHNSON: Once you get them out of 7 the cell, you have to have two officers to get 8 them out of the cell, but CM 3 you can do one 9 officer, but CM 2 you got to have two, and CM 1 10 you got to have 1. But once you get them out of 11 the cell, one officer can escort four inmates. 12 We usually don't do one officer to four inmates, 13 because we got enough help that we send at least 14 two officers with him. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If they're working 16 in the barber shop, a CM 3, how many officers are 17 watching him? 18 ADRO JOHNSON: It's not actually a 19 barber shop. It's in the day room, on the wing 20 itself. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I see. 363 1 ADRO JOHNSON: And they set up a chair 2 over in one corner, and break out the clippers, 3 and go to town. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How much of the rec 5 time do CM inmates get outside? 6 ADRO JOHNSON: They get two hours three 7 times a week. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And are CM 1s given 9 as much time as CM 3s? 10 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And given the 12 fact -- did I understand correctly that the 13 programming, be it education or mental health, 14 occurs in the cell? 15 ADRO JOHNSON: It occurs in the housing 16 area. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: In the housing area? 18 ADRO JOHNSON: Like I said earlier, on 19 the mental health, they do groups. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yes. All right. 21 ADRO JOHNSON: They counsel them 364 1 individually at cell sometimes, but they also 2 have a group session in a room that we got 3 buildings inside the day room area. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But the education, 5 you said, is in-cell, the teachers are at cell 6 front; is that right? 7 ADRO JOHNSON: At cell front, except 8 when they do testing. Then they bring them out 9 in a group. 10 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. Okay. Are 11 there any other occasions, other than rec, or 12 coming out for a test on an educational program, 13 or coming out for a group in mental health, where 14 a CM inmate of any level gets out of his cell? 15 ADRO JOHNSON: You've got your orderly 16 that's used for feeding them every three times a 17 day, seven days a week, but they come out, and 18 there's usually about two or three officers with 19 them, and they're running the food carts around 20 and taking up trays afterwards. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Sure. 365 1 ADRO JOHNSON: So you've got your CM 3 2 orderlies to do that. 3 Out in the rec, we have these cages set 4 up. When they go to rec, if they got a cell 5 partner, two of them can be in this cage. And 6 you've got at least three to four officers 7 outside with them while rec is going on. And we 8 have cameras back there, too. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So they never feel 10 very lonely? 11 ADRO JOHNSON: No, sir. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And the recreation 13 is not in the open yard. It's in a cage. 14 And if they're a CM 1, and therefore 15 don't have a cellmate, they're in a cage by 16 themselves? 17 ADRO JOHNSON: They're in a cage by 18 theirself. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How big a cage? 20 ADRO JOHNSON: You got 10 by 20. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Ten by 20? 366 1 ADRO JOHNSON: You got lift bars on 2 there for them to work out on. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: What about your gay 4 population, gay men and transgenders? 5 Do you have a population of any size? 6 ADRO JOHNSON: General population? 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Across the board. 8 ADRO JOHNSON: Well, in general 9 population, if they are, they don't show it, 10 pretty much. And, yes, we do have some in CM. 11 It's not a whole bunch that openly show that 12 they're gay. There's a few, but not that many. 13 And the ones I can think of right off the top of 14 my head are CM 1s. 15 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: CM 1s? 16 ADRO JOHNSON: They're housed alone, 17 the ones I can think of off the top of my head. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So they're not going 19 to have a cellmate? 20 ADRO JOHNSON: No, sir. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: I see. 367 1 ADRO JOHNSON: And a lot of them do 2 that by design. I mean, they mess up bad enough 3 that they go to CM 1, so they don't -- they're 4 not subjected to a cellmate. 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are inmates asked 6 their sexual orientation when they arrive? 7 ADRO JOHNSON: No, sir. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Do you think they 9 should be? 10 ADRO JOHNSON: I think if he's gay and 11 he wants to walk a straight line like everybody 12 else, like every other inmate does, then he 13 should be allowed to do so, and just be a normal 14 inmate. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Would that be 16 information you'd want to know, or you'd want 17 your people to know, when they're making housing 18 assignments, or CM 3 job assignments, the sexual 19 orientation of a CM, in this case a CM 1, gay 20 inmate? 21 ADRO JOHNSON: Basically, we leave it 368 1 up to them. We don't ask. 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do you have gay men 3 on your staff, lesbians? 4 ADRO JOHNSON: I don't ask. 5 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Did you say no? 6 ADRO JOHNSON: I said I don't ask. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have any volunteered 8 their sexual orientation? 9 ADRO JOHNSON: Not personally to me, 10 no. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Have you heard from 12 anybody else that they've volunteered? 13 ADRO JOHNSON: I don't work off 14 hearsay. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That means, no, you 16 haven't heard anything? 17 I didn't ask whether you work off of 18 it, but -- 19 ADRO JOHNSON: No, sir. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. We heard 21 earlier that Lieutenant or Captain Anderson only 369 1 gets -- only sees certain complaints from the 2 associate warden's office, a Ms. McDermott. 3 How does that work? 4 What does Ms. McDermott do? 5 ADRO JOHNSON: Ms. McDermott is the 6 assistant warden secretary. And the grievance 7 box that goes around by the classification 8 officer that picks up the grievances -- 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. Yeah. 10 ADRO JOHNSON: -- comes back to the 11 grievance coordinator's office. And remember, 12 she works for central office. She pulls out all 13 of the informal grievances and gives them to 14 Erica McDermott, the assistant warden's 15 secretary. She logs them in. We put -- she puts 16 a tracking number on them. She screens them 17 initially. Any that she sees that has PREA 18 allegations or allegations of abuse, she runs 19 them in to let the assistant warden look at them, 20 and then she calls the OIG, or we pick them up, 21 go out and investigate. And we make a MINS 370 1 report from there. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: So Erica McDermott 3 is screening the lockbox complaints or grievances 4 for -- and determines whether they are making a 5 PREA allegation; is that -- 6 ADRO JOHNSON: I've asked her to do 7 that. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Does anybody 9 review the ones that she doesn't think involve 10 PREA? 11 ADRO JOHNSON: If she doesn't think 12 they involve PREA, she goes ahead and logs them 13 in, and sends them out to whoever they were 14 addressed to initially. 15 See, we're not required to track 16 informal grievances, but due to the normal 17 grievances that we get, I do track. Everywhere 18 I've been, I've tracked informal grievances, so I 19 can make sure if an inmate files one that it's 20 kept up with and it's answered. 21 Okay. So if she misses an allegation, 371 1 and she sends it on to the department head, 2 whether it be the colonel classification, 3 medical, whatever, and they pick up on it, then 4 they bring it back. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Gotcha. 6 ADRO JOHNSON: And say, we need to make 7 a MINS report on this. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How would you, 9 Warden, describe the environment in the CM 10 facilities, as far as subject of sex? 11 Does it come up among the inmates? 12 You ever -- well, let me back up. 13 Do you ever walk through the 14 facilities? 15 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes, sir. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. How 17 often do you go through the residential unit? 18 ADRO JOHNSON: I'm required to do it at 19 least weekly. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Well, how often do 21 you do it? 372 1 ADRO JOHNSON: Probably a couple times 2 a week. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. And how long 4 do you stay in any one of those quads? 5 ADRO JOHNSON: When I walk the quad, I 6 walk every floor. I stop at every cell. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are they locked down 8 at the time, or might anybody be in a day room? 9 ADRO JOHNSON: If they're a CM 2, and 10 they're in the day room, I walk through the 11 seating area where the inmates are in the day 12 room. If they're CM 3, and they're out in the 13 day room, I walk through that area. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 15 ADRO JOHNSON: And I walk cells, too. 16 I stop at every cell. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. And I 18 understand that soft porn is allowed to be in the 19 possession of inmates; is that right? 20 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: But it shouldn't be 373 1 on their walls? 2 ADRO JOHNSON: Not on their walls and 3 not displayed anywhere in the cell. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. And when 5 you're walking a couple times a week through 6 these units, do you -- do you hear anybody call 7 anybody a fag, a gay, a queen, or a more colorful 8 language about sexual language? 9 ADRO JOHNSON: It's a prison. You hear 10 inmates catcalling all the time. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I bet you do. 12 And what happens when they do? 13 ADRO JOHNSON: If I catch them, I talk 14 to them. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 16 ADRO JOHNSON: They're already in CM. 17 There's not much use, most the time, of writing 18 another disciplinary report, because -- 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: They're papering 20 their walls with them? 21 ADRO JOHNSON: There you go. 374 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 2 ADRO JOHNSON: But I will talk to 3 them. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what do you 5 expect your staff to do? 6 ADRO JOHNSON: I expect them to do the 7 same thing. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Talk to them, or 9 write a DR? 10 ADRO JOHNSON: Well, I try to go by the 11 three-strike rule. Third strike, you're out. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 13 ADRO JOHNSON: We write a DR then. But 14 we do have progressive discipline where they 15 write a -- they log down their 229, which is a 16 record of segregated housing, that they've 17 counseled with the inmate, and then they had a 18 corrective consultation, which don't do much good 19 with close management inmates, and then they have 20 a disciplinary report, which, again, doesn't do 21 much good with close management inmates. But we 375 1 do try to be progressive with it. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Increase the pain? 3 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And what about 5 staff? 6 In your time at CCI, have you heard any 7 staff tell anybody jokes, any lewd descriptions 8 of particular inmates of a sexual nature: That 9 guy is, you know, the gayest person, or that guy 10 is going to be -- he's a flaming queen, or 11 something? 12 ADRO JOHNSON: From my first day at 13 Charlotte Correctional Institution, my first 14 thing that I had to go to, or that I wanted to go 15 to, was a shift supervisor's meeting. And we 16 talked about PREA and doing the right things for 17 the right reasons, and that kind of stuff. So 18 the word got out ahead of time that I wasn't 19 going to tolerate it. So by the time I got to 20 walking around the units, they were already 21 looking at me. So I can't say that I personally 376 1 heard it at Charlotte. 2 Have I heard it in the past? 3 Yes. I've heard it in the past. 4 But since PREA came out in '04, and we 5 started getting training done, and finished it up 6 in '05, with the exception of the new staff 7 coming in, of course, it's really turned the 8 department around. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That's good. 10 How do you explain the high incidence 11 that's indicated? 12 I know you said that you were shocked 13 and you were astounded. 14 How do you explain it? 15 ADRO JOHNSON: As the secretary brought 16 up previously, we're trying to make bad inmates 17 do the right thing. And also, Mr. Upchurch 18 brought it up, too, we make them go through strip 19 searches. We make them come out and take 20 showers. We make them, if possible, go out to 21 rec. We just don't let them do what they want to 377 1 do. A lot of them would like to lay there in 2 that cell and catcall and holler back and forth 3 with each other. Some of them don't even want to 4 come out and take a bath, but we make them come 5 out and take a shower, you know. And we're 6 trying to put some structure in their lives. 7 We're trying to give them a little discipline. 8 And this is an opportunity to turn it around. 9 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Are there other 10 ways that inmates may use to turn it around, to 11 get back, to retaliate, in your experience, other 12 than making reports that are false reports? 13 ADRO JOHNSON: Well, they throw feces. 14 They throw urine. They throw food. They throw 15 about anything. 16 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Tangible kinds of 17 things? 18 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes, that kind of 19 thing. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Very tangible. 21 ADRO JOHNSON: And we do have a great 378 1 number of grievances that are filed. Again, 2 grievances, and the MINS reports and 3 investigations, are two different things. Back in 4 2005, I think we had 1,700 grievances filed. 5 2006 -- or 2005, we had 2,400 grievances filed. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: At CCI? 7 ADRO JOHNSON: That was prior to me 8 getting there. 9 In 2006, there was 1,750. And in 2007, 10 there's around 1,750. So inmates are not afraid 11 to file grievances. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Those were informal 13 grievances? 14 ADRO JOHNSON: Those were formal 15 grievances, that count, formal grievances. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Formal grievances? 17 ADRO JOHNSON: Usually, it started out 18 as an informal. 19 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 20 ADRO JOHNSON: There's certain things 21 that they can file on formal. 379 1 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 2 ADRO JOHNSON: But usually, the type 3 we're talking about here, started out as an 4 informal. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What's your -- we 6 heard about the capacity of CCI. 7 What's its actual population today? 8 ADRO JOHNSON: I can't tell you what 9 the population is today. I can tell you what it 10 was Monday. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: How about Monday? 12 ADRO JOHNSON: One thousand fifty-one. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: One thousand fifty-one? 14 ADRO JOHNSON: Right. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Anybody sleeping in 16 the day room, any CM? 17 ADRO JOHNSON: No. No, sir. 18 You're looking at the difference in the 19 count and what I actually have? 20 Is that what you're looking at? 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No. No. 380 1 We were talking with California that 2 has people sleeping everywhere. 3 ADRO JOHNSON: No. We don't have 4 people sleeping in the day room, or warehouses, 5 or tent cities, or anything like that. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Are you aware of any 7 incidents of sexual abuse, inmate-on-inmate, 8 whether it was penetration or touching, in CCI 9 ever, ever occurring, open population or CM? 10 ADRO JOHNSON: I believe Ms. Duran 11 mentioned one case where he said it was, but he 12 waited too late, and we couldn't get any 13 evidence. That was one she cited earlier. 14 STEVEN MCFARLAND: That was the one 15 that got deported to Honduras? 16 ADRO JOHNSON: Right. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. Any others? 18 ADRO JOHNSON: Not that I can recall in 19 the two years I've been there. 20 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And did you ever 21 review any of the records of the institution to 381 1 see if that, prior to your tenure, there had ever 2 been a sexual -- a confirmed, substantiated 3 sexual assault? 4 ADRO JOHNSON: I didn't review any, but 5 I didn't hear of any, either. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Okay. 7 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Warden, what's the 8 morale like of your subordinates? 9 ADRO JOHNSON: My staff? 10 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Mm-hmm. 11 ADRO JOHNSON: I've got good morale. 12 They're proud to be there. They're very 13 professional. Charlotte is a good institution. 14 Yes, it's a tough institution, but if you come 15 work at Charlotte, you can go to work anywhere 16 else after you've been there for a while. I 17 mean, if you make sergeant at Charlotte, you make 18 lieutenant or captain, you can go just about any 19 other institution in the State, and you'll be a 20 good sergeant, lieutenant, or captain. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Because anything 382 1 else is a walk in the park, compared to 2 Charlotte? 3 ADRO JOHNSON: I mentioned earlier that 4 I worked at FSD for 14 years. And I thought 5 every correctional officer had it as bad as I did 6 at FSD. And when I moved to Madison as a 7 captain, I'm walking around there with my hands 8 in my pockets, and I said, I'm getting paid for 9 this? Working in a close management facility is 10 a lot harder than it is at other institutions, 11 not saying that they don't work. They do work, 12 but they don't put up with as much as we do. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: May seem like a 14 silly question, but are there case counselors in 15 any of the CM quads? 16 ADRO JOHNSON: Case counselors, like 17 classification officers? 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: No. Case -- 19 caseworkers, counselors, anybody other than a 20 correctional officer who has responsibility for 21 counseling inmates, developing a reentry plan, 383 1 are there any other -- 2 ADRO JOHNSON: Yeah. We've got people 3 for transition -- 4 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 5 ADRO JOHNSON: -- that come in and talk 6 to the inmates. They hold, well, in CM, many 7 classes with them. We've got the mental health 8 counselors that come in and talk to them. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 10 ADRO JOHNSON: And we also, like I said 11 earlier, we have people that do the 12 transitioning, because we do have a lot of 13 inmates that leave out of CM and go home. I 14 mean, a lot of them, just to get a single cell, 15 will be disciplinary problems so that they get 16 assigned a CM, so they can be housed alone to do 17 their time. And then, they call it "bringing it 18 to the door." When they get out of the 19 institution, they don't have any supervision to 20 follow out on the street. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Warden -- I'm sorry. 384 1 Were you done? 2 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. 3 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Warden, let me ask 4 you this: If by some amazing circumstance a 5 sexual assault occurred, let's say in a CM 3 6 where there were two cellmates, how would the 7 alleged victim -- what are the options, what are 8 the ways that victim could communicate that it 9 had happened to, you know, get the word out? 10 What are all the options? 11 ADRO JOHNSON: He can tell the officer 12 that comes around every 20 to 30 minutes. 13 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 14 ADRO JOHNSON: If he needs to talk to 15 him, he can talk to him in private. 16 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 17 ADRO JOHNSON: He can ask for use of 18 the telephone, so he can call the TIPS line. He 19 can file an informal grievance. He can catch a 20 nurse coming by on her rounds. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What was the last 385 1 one? 2 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Catch a nurse. 3 ADRO JOHNSON: He can get a nurse when 4 she comes by on her rounds. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And how often does 6 the nurse come? 7 ADRO JOHNSON: They come by daily for 8 sick call. 9 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Everyday? 10 ADRO JOHNSON: Yeah, everyday for sick 11 call. 12 Monday through Friday, you have 13 counselors on the wings for mental health. You 14 got education people on the wing. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: What kind? 16 ADRO JOHNSON: Education. 17 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Education. Yeah. 18 ADRO JOHNSON: This is a very 19 service-oriented institution. We deliver 20 everything to them. 21 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Do inmates ever 386 1 make complaints and reports to the clergy? 2 ADRO JOHNSON: Yes. 3 The chaplain? 4 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Mm-hmm. 5 ADRO JOHNSON: Yeah. I got one 6 recently that's complaining of one of the 7 officers, so we did a MINS report on that one, 8 waiting. I don't think it's been assigned yet. 9 But the chaplain went around a couple weeks ago, 10 and one of the officers -- or one of the inmates 11 complained about a certain officer. 12 STEVEN MCFARLAND: If an inmate in a 13 CM 3 cell had been assaulted and didn't want the 14 cellie to know that he was going to report it, 15 how many of those options are still available to 16 them? 17 The guy, he's locked in his cell; he 18 could shove a slip of paper under the door when 19 the CO is walking by? 20 ADRO JOHNSON: Right. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Or the nurse? 387 1 ADRO JOHNSON: Right. 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Does he have to ask 3 for a sick call request form? 4 ADRO JOHNSON: A lot of them have a 5 request already. 6 STEVEN MCFARLAND: All right. So some 7 of them could just -- that's not considered 8 contraband to have a stack of sick calls? 9 ADRO JOHNSON: Well, we don't let them 10 have a whole bunch of them. 11 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. Right. 12 ADRO JOHNSON: We try to search the 13 cells and keep it down to a minimum. But a lot 14 of them do have the requests on hand. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: And, however, if the 16 allegation was that it wasn't a cellmate, but it 17 was a staff member, who out of camera sight was 18 coming into his cell and messing with him, it's 19 not going to do him much good to tell another CO 20 or another staff member. 21 Where's the TIPS line? 388 1 Is it in a confidential place? 2 STEVEN MCFARLAND: The inmates that are 3 in CM use portable phones. And if it's their 4 turn to use a phone, they get so many times per 5 week to use a phone, if they're in whatever level 6 they're in, 1, 2, or 3. 7 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Yeah. 8 ADRO JOHNSON: And we hand the phone in 9 to them, to the cell. And they use it inside the 10 cell. 11 But you said something about, well, 12 what about being off the camera? 13 Every cell door is covered by the 14 camera. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Cell doors, yes. 16 Do you have anything else? 17 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: No. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Anything else you 19 wanted to add, Warden? 20 ADRO JOHNSON: That's it. 21 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. 389 1 Secretary McNeil, did you want to add 2 something? 3 WALTER MCNEIL: Yes, Mr. Chairman. 4 Thank you. 5 I wanted to, before I leave, I think I 6 indicated I have a plane to catch to get back to 7 Tallahassee, but before doing so I wanted to make 8 some closing remarks. First of all, I want to, 9 again, thank you all for what you're doing to 10 ensure the safety of prisoners in our prisons 11 around our country. I believe it to be an 12 admirable task. 13 I also want to share with you that my 14 observations today in terms of what we in the 15 State of Florida will be doing -- I say this not 16 only so that you know, but I also say it so that 17 my staff who are here with me will hear these 18 remarks as well. We are going to do everything 19 that we can. In fact, one of the things that is 20 tantamount in our department is that we don't 21 settle for a 99 percent effort. 390 1 And my observations as it relates to 2 PREA are that we have a great deal more to do to 3 make sure that we are taking care of those 4 persons who are in our custody. Particularly, 5 we are going to go back and look at the protocols 6 that we have in place, as it relates to the IG's 7 office, and the reporting process. One of the 8 things that we will look at, obviously, is the 9 aspects of use of force that, to some extent, I 10 guess, seem to fall outside of parameters of 11 PREA. And we want to go back and look at that 12 and make sure we marry those issues up, that they 13 are part of the investigative process. So we 14 will do that. 15 We will also -- one of the things that 16 I think was said early on, that you may have 17 picked up on, or may have not, was that PREA, the 18 funding, the grant funding has gone away. And I 19 think it was basically alluded that we would no 20 longer do PREA. If that's your interpretation of 21 what was said, that is not factual. We will 391 1 continue the PREA initiative. We know that it's 2 made significant headway in our department 3 already, and we're going to keep moving in that 4 direction. 5 More than that, we're going to give 6 greater oversight to PREA to the general 7 counsel's office, so that we can make sure we 8 have legal sufficiency as it relates to the 9 investigations that are taking place, and the 10 various protocols that are in place. 11 You asked, Madam Chairman, early on, 12 whether we have a plan in place. Our plan has 13 been to fully implement and fully embrace PREA. 14 That was the plan prior to my getting here. 15 Obviously, after hearing some of the testimony 16 today, I know that we've got some holes in that 17 plan. And my plan is to go and fortify those 18 initiatives, to sit down, first of all, with the 19 Charlotte institution, sit down with our staff, 20 put together a plan of action relative to that 21 institution specifically, and to use whatever 392 1 information we can gather from this hearing and 2 that task for us, if you will, we will establish 3 for Charlotte, to apply those generally across 4 the breadth and width of our institutions in the 5 State of Florida. 6 The issues of whether or not in close 7 management persons have blind spots and audio 8 equipment and those kind of things is something 9 that I will go back and we will certainly pursue 10 in trying to make sure, to the extent that we 11 can, that we will fortify, again, those 12 facilities. And what I mean by that is, 13 obviously there are monetary limits to what we 14 can do, but we'll go back and look at that and 15 see if there's possibilities for us to utilize 16 audio opportunities, and particularly in close 17 management. That's something that we want to 18 spend some significant time looking at. 19 Also, as relates to all of the various 20 policies and procedures that we have in place, 21 I'm going to ask our general counsel to go back, 393 1 and let's look at all the various policies and 2 procedures to see if, in fact, we are doing this 3 in a prescribed way, with the kind of outcomes 4 that we know we need to have, which is zero 5 tolerance, zero tolerance for any 6 inmate-on-inmate or staff-on-inmate sexual 7 contact, sexual abuse, sexual assaults. 8 We will also make sure all of our IG 9 staff -- I was -- I don't think it was the 10 inspector at fault, and term it fault in layman 11 terms, of not being able to answer the question 12 relative to the preponderance of the evidence 13 question, but that is a fundamental question as 14 it relates to investigations. And we'll go back 15 and make sure that kind of training is across the 16 board and everybody understands what he or she is 17 to do with respect to their jobs. 18 Also, every question that you've asked 19 here today, as it relates to our close management 20 in our Charlotte Correctional Institution, you 21 will get every answer that you've asked for. We 394 1 will also sit down with all of the various 2 answers and work out a game plan with respect to 3 how we make sure that we're taking care of those 4 inmates in our custody and care in the State of 5 Florida. 6 Again, I want to thank you all for -- 7 the two of you for the time you spent. I want to 8 make sure that you know, without a doubt, that we 9 take this serious, and we're going to continue to 10 work to make sure that those inmates in our care 11 are taken care of. And we will not -- as was 12 said by the Warden, we have made significant 13 gains already, in my opinion, relative to 14 language issues and trying to make sure we're 15 professional in all that we do, and we're going 16 to continue to move that issue, those issues 17 forward. Again, we, I, recognize we have some 18 problems, some issues, but they are not issues 19 that I think can't be fixed if we can make sure 20 that leadership, and that comes from me, 21 leadership at the top, is making sure these 395 1 things are taken care of. 2 I thank you. 3 And I'll answer any questions you might 4 have. 5 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Thank you. 6 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you very 7 much. 8 STEVEN MCFARLAND: I think counsel is 9 going to just review for us on the record the 10 documents we've requested. 11 KATHLEEN VON HOENE: Yes, sir. The 12 Panel has requested that the Florida Department 13 of Corrections produce the following eight 14 categories of documents, which will be provided. 15 Number 1, any documented use of the 16 sexual battery assessment form. That's DC Form 17 4-683 M, at Charlotte Correctional Institution, 18 since 2001. 19 Number 2, we will do a search of our 20 offender base information system between 2001 and 21 the present to look for the incident report that 396 1 Nurse Duran referred to regarding a reported 2 incident from an inmate who was approaching the 3 end of his sentence, and he notified her that he 4 was alleging an inmate-on-inmate assault. She 5 notified the officer in charge, and that report 6 was prepared. 7 Number 3, regarding investigation, the 8 IG Investigation No. 06-5-0153, regarding an 9 incident alleged to have occurred in January of 10 2006, we will review the complainant's medical 11 file and retrieve any documents, if there are 12 any, on any alleged battery allegations, et 13 cetera. 14 Number 4, we will produce a listing of 15 the sustained inspector general cases at 16 Charlotte Correctional Institution from 2001 17 through 2008. 18 Number 5, we will produce a procedure 19 regarding any early warning systems regarding 20 staff misconduct allegations or any other 21 allegations against staff. 397 1 Number 6, we will produce the CM status 2 for the representative PREA complainants involved 3 in the 37 inspector general investigations that 4 were discussed before the Panel. 5 Number 7, we will produce documentation 6 regarding staff discipline that followed two 7 inspector general investigations, Investigation 8 No. 06-5-1046, and Inspection 06-5-1478. 9 And finally, number 8, we will produce 10 the written statements which were read into the 11 record by Mr. George Sapp, Mr. James Upchurch, 12 and Ms. Donna Hoffman. 13 And that concludes your document 14 request. 15 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Anything else? 16 Thank you very much, Ms. Von -- 17 KATHLEEN VON HOENE: Von Hoene. 18 STEVEN MCFARLAND: Von Hoene. 19 And I want to thank, again, the 20 Secretary, Mrs. Hoffman, and all of the other 21 witnesses, for coming up here. 398 1 And we will be adjourned until 9:00 2 o'clock tomorrow. 3 CARROLL ANN ELLIS: Thank you very 4 much. 5 (Proceeding adjourned at 4:39 p.m.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 399 1 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 2 I, Warren Brey, Digital Recorder, do 3 hereby certify that the witnesses named herein 4 personally appeared before me at the time and 5 place herein set according to law, and were 6 interrogated. 7 I further certify that the examination 8 was recorded digitally by me and then transcribed 9 from my digital recording to the within printed 10 matter by means of computer-assisted 11 transcription in a true and accurate manner. 12 I further certify that the stipulations 13 contained herein were entered into by counsel in 14 my presence. 15 I further certify that I am not of 16 counsel to any of the parties, not an employee of 17 counsel, nor related to any of the parties, nor 18 in any way interested in the outcome of this 19 action. 20 21 400 0002 1 2 3 ________________________ 4 Warren Brey 5 Digital Recorder 6 7 8 9 10 11 ________________________ 12 Adele L. Moorehead 13 Digital Transcriptionist 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 401 0002 1 2 3 4 5