1 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF JUSTICE PROGRAMS REVIEW PANEL ON PRISON RAPE HEARINGS ON RAPE AND STAFF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT IN U.S. JAILS NORTHWEST OHIO REGIONAL CORRECTIONAL CENTER Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:00 a.m - 4:48 p.m. -- REVISED COPY -- U.S. Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs Building 810 7th Street, N.W. Main Conference Room Third Floor Washington, D.C. Diversified Reporting Services, Inc. (202) 467-9200 2 PARTICIPANTS: Review Panel Members: Steve McFarland, Director Task Force for Faith-Based and Community Initiatives U.S. Department of Justice Carroll Ann Ellis, Director Fairfax County, Virginia Police Department Victim Services Gwendolyn Chunn, Executive Director (retired) Juvenile Justice Institute, Center for Criminal Justice Research and International Initiatives Department of Criminal Justice North Carolina Central University WITNESSES: Craig Eiden, Shift Commander (day shift) Tammy Parker, Shift Commander (second shift) Juli Steingass, Shift Commander (night shift) Tim Clay, Investigator Salina Hill, Human Resources Manager, Co-Investigator Carolyn Kuntz, Classification Specialist Stephanie Garza-Romero, Registered Nurse Jim Dennis, Executive Director Dennis Sullivan, Deputy Administrator, Director of Security and Operations 3 C O N T E N T S PAGE Introductory Remarks 4 Review Panel Members Panel 1 6 Tim Clay, Investigator Salina Hill, Human Resources Manager, Co-Investigator Panel 2 84 Carolyn Kuntz, Classification Specialist Stephanie Garza-Romero, Registered Nurse Lunch Break 146 Panel 3 146 Craig Eiden, Shift Commander (day shift) Tammy Parker, Shift Commander (second shift) Juli Steingass, Shift Commander (night shift) Panel 4 257 Jim Dennis, Executive Director Dennis Sullivan, Deputy Administrator, Director of Security and Operations E X H I B I T S NUMBER DESCRIPTION MARKED 1 Brochure Entitled "Inmate Programs and Services at Corrections Center of Northwest Ohio" 273 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (9:04 a.m.) 3 MR. McFARLAND: Good morning. My name is 4 Steve McFarland. I have the privilege of being part of 5 the Review Panel on Prison Rape. 6 This is a public hearing with sworn testimony 7 concerning the incidence of sexual assault in jails 8 based on the National Inmate Survey administered last 9 year by the Bureau of Justice Statistics of the 10 Department of Justice. 11 It's my pleasure to introduce the rest of the 12 Panel. 13 To my left we have Ms. Carroll Ann Ellis, who 14 is the director of the victims services division of one 15 of the nation's largest police departments, the Fairfax 16 County Police Department, and a veteran of this Panel. 17 And we're also very privileged to have Ms. 18 Gwendolyn Chunn to my right, who -- this will be her 19 first hearing with the Panel, just recently appointed. 20 And Ms. Chunn has a very extensive and impressive 21 background in corrections, not the least of which is 22 being past president in 2004 of the American 5 1 Correctional Association, and served as director of 2 youth services in North Carolina's Department of Health 3 and Human Services. 4 The purpose of these hearings is pursuant to 5 the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003. We are to 6 identify the characteristics of sexual predators in the 7 jails, the characteristics of sexual assault victims in 8 jails, and to identify the characteristics of 9 facilities that have apparently, based on the survey, a 10 high incidence of sexual victimization and the 11 characteristics of those who are apparently successful 12 in preventing sexual assault. 13 We have the pleasure of hearing from and 14 learning from one of the latter institutions, the 15 Correctional Center for Northwest Ohio. The first 16 panel will consist of Ms. Lina Hill and Mr. Tim Gray 17 (sic), and I'd ask if they would come forward at this 18 time. 19 Oh, I'm sorry. Does the panel wish to have 20 any opening comments? 21 MS. ELLIS: Just good morning, and looking 22 forward to our discussions today. 6 1 MS. CHUNN: Ditto. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Hill and Mr. Clay, would 3 you please raise your right hand, please? 4 Whereupon, 5 TIM CLAY 6 SALINA HILL 7 were called as witnesses and, having been 8 first duly sworn, were examined and testified as 9 follows: 10 EXAMINATION 11 MR. McFARLAND: Would you please state your 12 full name and your position at CCNO? 13 MR. CLAY: My name is Timothy C. Clay. I'm an 14 investigator with CCNO. 15 MR. McFARLAND: One second. I don't think we 16 have audio on your -- 17 (Pause) 18 MR. McFARLAND: All right, sir. Much better. 19 MR. CLAY: Yes. My name is Timothy C. Clay, 20 C-l-a-y, and I'm an investigator with CCNO. 21 MS. HILL: My name is Salina Hill, and -- it's 22 way too close to my mouth -- and I'm the human 7 1 resources manager. And I'm also a co-investigator. 2 MR. McFARLAND: And how long have each of you 3 been at this facility? 4 MR. CLAY: I've been there for seven and a 5 half years now. 6 MS. HILL: I've been there almost ten years. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And how long have you 8 been in your current position as investigators or HR 9 manager? 10 MR. CLAY: Seven and a half years. I started 11 in that position. 12 MS. HILL: I've been the HR manager since I 13 started, and co-investigator for probably five or six 14 years. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. What preparation have 16 you had an opportunity to do for this hearing? 17 MR. CLAY: Well, we compiled some documents 18 here based on your request. We've had a chance to 19 review those somewhat, plus the other -- the letter 20 that was sent out. And we have our policies and such 21 here. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Have you had an opportunity to 8 1 review the incident reports that were filed in 2007? 2 MR. CLAY: Yes. I've looked at some of those. 3 I can't say that I've seen every one, but the ones that 4 I've been involved in I certainly have. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Ms. Hill? 6 MS. HILL: I've read through the documentation 7 that was presented. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Great. Ms. Hill, what 9 has been your training in investigating sexual assault? 10 MS. HILL: The National Institute of 11 Corrections held a staff sexual misconduct training, 40 12 hours here in Washington, D.C. I attended that. And 13 then they held a second one, investigating staff sexual 14 misconduct, and I attended that also. And a three-hour 15 broadcast event on PREA, I attended that. 16 A five-and-a-half hour NIC PREA presentation, 17 I attended that. And also, a three-hour NIC on 18 institutional culture. And then the Ohio Police 19 Officers Training Academy 24-hour training on interview 20 and interrogation training. 21 MR. McFARLAND: And what of that training is 22 specifically focused on investigating sexual assault? 9 1 MS. HILL: Especially the second NIC training, 2 which was investigating allegations of staff 3 sexual -- it more leaned towards staff as opposed to 4 inmate-on-inmate. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Uh-huh. And have you had any 6 training in inmate-on-inmate sexual assault 7 investigations? 8 MS. HILL: Just what was involved in those. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. I just need to be 10 clear. You just said that the -- that one of them 11 focused on staff-on-inmate sexual assault. Is that 12 right? 13 MS. HILL: The NIC training. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 15 MS. HILL: But it also talked about crime 16 scenes, and how to, you know, protect the evidence, and 17 the questions, and the red flags, and the things to 18 look for, and the questions to ask. And a lot of 19 questions would be the same be it staff on inmate or 20 inmate on inmate. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Sure. And any other training 22 in sexual assault investigations, either staff on 10 1 inmate or inmate on inmate? 2 MS. HILL: Last year, we did a training, an 3 in-service training, for all the staff at CCNO about 4 the first responders, the questions to ask when someone 5 reports to you that they've been assaulted, the 6 questions to ask, the things to look for, what to put 7 in your report, who to report it to, and basically the 8 first responder information. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Talk a little bit more about 10 that first responder training because I think that is 11 really important. What else did that cover? How many 12 hours was it? And so forth. 13 MS. HILL: The first responder training, I 14 know that we showed all staff a video and it showed a 15 scenario basically what to do when an inmate tells you 16 that they've been assaulted, the questions to ask. And 17 sometimes they don't want to tell the whole 18 thing -- they're embarrassed -- and how to get them to 19 tell. 20 And we show that to all of our staff because 21 the corrections officers have the most contact, 22 obviously, with the offenders. And they're most likely 11 1 to be the first responders. So we thought it was 2 important to tell all of our staff how to respond at 3 all levels, from the bottom to the top. 4 But the training came from the top, so even 5 the newly hired corrections officer realized how 6 important that information was. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Excellent. 8 MS. ELLIS: On that same line, Ms. Hill, do 9 you have any kind of interaction with local police 10 jurisdictions and their sexual assault units in terms 11 of training or working back and forth, or ever an 12 occasion to consult with them in terms of how they 13 proceed with sexual assault investigations? 14 MS. HILL: Oh, absolutely. We're the regional 15 jail for the five counties. I don't know if you have 16 the background on us, but it's the five outlying 17 counties. But where we physically sit is in Williams 18 County. 19 So when we have allegations, we contact the 20 Williams County Sheriff's Office, and we work very 21 closely with them. And the sheriff actually sits on 22 our board. The sheriffs of all the counties, as well 12 1 as the commissioners and the judges, sit on our board. 2 And then we communicate with the sheriff's 3 office. And then we have a specific detective sergeant 4 that we communicate with on all these allegations, 5 which are very few. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Clay, could you tell us 7 what training you've had in investigations in general, 8 and specifically sexual assault? 9 MR. CLAY: Okay. I've had mostly the training 10 that Ms. Hill had at CCNO. And I've had the NIC 11 training here in Washington on the sexual assaults. 12 I had 30-plus years as a police officer. I've 13 had basic investigator training, specialized FBI 14 training, and many, many training seminars and classes 15 throughout my 30-plus years. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Have you had the four-hour 17 first responder training? 18 MR. CLAY: Yes. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Was that yes? 20 MR. CLAY: Yes. That was what we had there. 21 Yes, absolutely. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Great. What plans to either 13 1 of you have for augmenting your training, getting 2 additional training in the area of investigating sexual 3 assault? 4 MR. CLAY: We get information on different 5 seminars and such in the area, and actually, in the 6 state. And I look at all those inc see, and if I see 7 something that I feel would benefit us, I would request 8 to attend those. 9 MR. McFARLAND: What's an example of what 10 you're planning? Do you have any plans currently? 11 MR. CLAY: Not specifically. But as I said, 12 we get information on those programs and we do go to 13 them. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Do you have a budget for 15 attending these things? 16 MR. CLAY: Yes. I don't have a budget per se, 17 but CCNO has a budget for that. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Ms. Hill, do you have 19 any plans for additional training? 20 MS. HILL: CCNO has a $30,000 budget for 21 training for all staff. We're also required to have 40 22 hours of in-service training every year. We are 14 1 ACA-accredited, so there are certain things that we are 2 required to train on every year, all staff, not just 3 Mr. Clay and myself but all of us, like emergency plans 4 and stuff. 5 And then we also have like self-defense, first 6 aid, and then we will also include critical topics like 7 this one, like staff sexual misconduct, sexual assault 8 training every year. We do that through the in-service 9 training, which is classroom training for all staff. 10 But we also do a briefing training, and then as Mr. 11 Clay said, we do seminars that are more job-specific, 12 like if NIC or AJA put out another seminar on such a 13 thing, then we would attend that when the training 14 calendars come out. 15 MS. ELLIS: Does your training include a 16 rather in-depth focus on the SANE examination so that 17 you understand the collection of evidence and -- 18 MR. McFARLAND: SANE is -- 19 MS. ELLIS: SANE, sexual assault nursing 20 examiner, and the perp kit? 21 MS. HILL: I believe we're looking into 22 putting that into the training curriculum for next 15 1 year, at least for all medical staff, and then upper 2 level, I guess, for lack of a better term, commanders, 3 in the chain of command, commanders and above, anyone 4 that would be involved in that kind -- not that we 5 would necessarily maybe do the medical exam, but so we 6 understood what the people doing the medical exam were 7 doing. 8 MS. ELLIS: Exactly. So that you have general 9 knowledge and understanding of the procedure. 10 MS. HILL: Absolutely. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Great. Mr. Clay, if an inmate 12 needed or wanted to allege sexual assault, what are the 13 ways that he or she could do that at your facility? 14 MR. CLAY: There are numerous ways. They 15 could notify their unit officer, their case manager, 16 any staff employee. They could even call the local 17 sheriff's department. 18 MR. McFARLAND: How would they do that? 19 MR. CLAY: Well, if the inmates have phone 20 privileges, they could go down and call. If the agency 21 would accept their call, you know, it would be charged 22 to the agency. 16 1 But typically, they report it to staff 2 members, family members, and we have a hotline that 3 goes right into my office. It is designed specifically 4 for this type of situation. They can call that number. 5 As soon as I get the call, I make out a report. I 6 submit it directly to the executive director. He 7 assigns me to do an investigation, and we go from 8 there. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Now, are these agencies that 10 they can call other than your office, are they usually 11 in the habit of accepting -- 12 MR. CLAY: No. Typically -- 13 MR. McFARLAND: Excuse me. Let me just finish 14 the question. 15 MR. CLAY: Sorry. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Are they usually in the habit 17 of accepting collect calls from the jail? 18 MR. CLAY: No. No. They have. We had one 19 inmate last year that we investigated. He contacted 20 the FBI numerous times. They did accept his call. But 21 typically they don't because, you know, a lot of the 22 calls are not -- you know, they're not legitimate. But 17 1 we still investigate them, and it does happen where 2 they do notify the outside agencies directly. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So how can an inmate in 4 your facility contact a third party, an outside agency, 5 not somebody on your staff? But if they for some 6 reason thought the staff was a problem -- 7 MR. CLAY: Sure. 8 MR. McFARLAND: -- or part of the problem, how 9 would they notify an outside party, be it a rape crisis 10 center, be it a sheriff's office, internal affairs unit 11 at some police department, what have you? 12 MR. CLAY: Okay. They could have a family 13 member make the call for them. They could write a 14 letter. There are just many ways. They have their 15 attorney contact them, in communications with their 16 attorneys. There's many different ways. But 17 typically, they come right through our staff as far as 18 any allegations. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Well, but you're here because 20 you have very rare incidence, if any. 21 MR. CLAY: Yes. 22 MR. McFARLAND: So how can we talk 18 1 about -- typically? Do you get a lot of phone calls to 2 your office? 3 MR. CLAY: Not a lot. Actually, very few on 4 the sexual misconduct. We get complaints about other 5 issues -- credit for their time served. But it's 6 specifically there for sexual misconduct complaints. 7 But no, we don't get many calls of that type, not at 8 all. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Now, you said at that time 10 they could ask their lawyer or their family to do that. 11 MR. CLAY: Yes. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Now, to communicate that to 13 their family, they would be in visitation or over the 14 phone, and you listen to the phone calls. Is that 15 correct? 16 MR. CLAY: Yes. Some of them I do. Many of 17 them I do. They could -- at a visitation, they could 18 advise the family member. They could do it -- they 19 could write them a letter. They could have another 20 inmate call the family member. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Are the letters, outgoing 22 letters, reviewed by your staff? 19 1 MR. CLAY: The outgoing letters? I do not 2 believe so, no. The incoming ones, you know, we check 3 for contraband. But no. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Why do you listen to the 5 telephone calls but not read the letters? 6 MR. CLAY: Well, I don't see the letters. 7 What I do, I monitor calls where there's some 8 information that -- like if we have a sexual complaint, 9 to obtain information. In one in particular, one 10 inmate was calling everybody saying that he was 11 sexually molested and stuff. 12 And he even called the -- as I said before, he 13 even called the FBI. Well, we found there was no 14 evidence to substantiate any of that. But we do that 15 to gain information purposes as well as for security of 16 the institution. 17 MS. CHUNN: Mr. Clay? 18 MR. CLAY: Yes, ma'am? 19 MS. CHUNN: Can you hear me? 20 MR. CLAY: Yes, I can. 21 MS. CHUNN: Okay. What is the average length 22 of stay of most of your detainees, given that you're 20 1 serving, what, about six counties? 2 MR. CLAY: Five counties and the city of 3 Toledo. 4 MS. CHUNN: Five counties. 5 MR. CLAY: Twenty-three days. Yes, they're 6 not there very long. But they frequently come back, 7 unfortunately. 8 MS. CHUNN: And when there have instances of 9 alleged abuse, about how long have those detainees been 10 in your custody? 11 MR. CLAY: It varies. We had one that came 12 up, he was there for 30-some hours and reported it four 13 years later. And again, that was merely a report. He 14 never followed up to come in and give us a statement. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Let me just go back to the 16 means of reporting, Mr. Clay. 17 MR. CLAY: Yes, sir. 18 MR. McFARLAND: You've mentioned going through 19 family or lawyers, and you've mentioned going through 20 staff. 21 MR. CLAY: Yes. 22 MR. McFARLAND: What staff would an inmate, a 21 1 potential victim, have access to in your facility other 2 than the rover, who goes through the units? 3 MR. CLAY: He would have access to the 4 supervisors -- which maybe you refer to as a rover; I'm 5 not sure -- the chaplain, the medical staff, the 6 counseling staff, just anybody. Volunteers. Everyone 7 and anyone is required, as soon as they become aware of 8 anything like this, to report it to the commander and 9 follow up with an incident report. So they can 10 conceivably tell anyone. And they do, if we had 11 something. 12 MS. HILL: Ma'am? 13 MS. CHUNN: But I get the sense that you're 14 saying that in most instances, the preferred strategy 15 for most detainees is to funnel those allegations 16 through the staff. Is that correct? 17 MR. CLAY: We would like to know, yes, so we 18 can, you know, investigate it. But however we would 19 find out, we would investigate it, however it's 20 reported. 21 MS. HILL: Ma'am? 22 MS. CHUNN: One follow-up to that before my 22 1 esteemed colleague takes the floor. 2 MR. CLAY: Sure. 3 MS. CHUNN: When you do that that way and your 4 average length of stay is about 23 days, what do you do 5 to acquaint detainees with policy from the very 6 beginning? 7 MR. CLAY: Yes. When they are incarcerated, 8 they are given a conduct -- a book that explains the 9 procedures of sexual misconduct. They have a full 10 orientation and everything is explained to them. 11 They're shown a video. And it's all explained right 12 when they come in. 13 MS. CHUNN: So in addition to the written 14 material -- 15 MR. CLAY: Yes. They have a video. 16 MS. CHUNN: -- you do talk to them as well as 17 shown a video? 18 MR. CLAY: Yes. 19 MR. McFARLAND: As a matter of fact, that 20 video is shown twice a day forever. Isn't that right? 21 MR. CLAY: I don't know for how long, but I 22 know it's shown. 23 1 MS. CHUNN: It's ongoing. 2 MS. HILL: May I? 3 MR. McFARLAND: Please. Ms. Hill. 4 MS. HILL: I just want to expand on what Mr. 5 Clay said. As he said, when they come in the door, the 6 offenders are given an orientation. Then their case 7 manager goes over with them their handbook. And then 8 they have to sign a form that yes, this information was 9 given to me. 10 Also, in all of the units, it's posted, not 11 only the hotline but how they can report such things. 12 Staff members, as you call the rover -- a CO is in the 13 unit all the time. The supervisor -- 14 MR. McFARLAND: Well, when you say all the 15 time, you don't mean 24/7? 16 MS. HILL: We're direct supervision, so there 17 is a corrections officer in their unit with them all 18 the time and they're accessible to them. And then the 19 supervisors every shift are also in the unit. 20 The commanders enter the units every shift. 21 Our executive director weekly walks around through 22 every unit, as does our director of security and our 24 1 director of support services. We have an 2 inspections -- our ACA inspections supervisor, 3 accreditation supervisor. She is in the unit weekly. 4 Maintenance is in that. 5 And we also have an extensive volunteer 6 program. The volunteers go through their orientation, 7 and at orientation not only do we tell them it's not 8 okay to develop personal relationships, but also how 9 they should respond if an inmate tells them that they 10 have been assaulted or, you know, any violation of 11 policy. 12 We tell the volunteers how to report that they 13 have been -- and that they don't need to keep -- they 14 should not -- they cannot keep that confidential, the 15 volunteers. And also our contract staff go through the 16 same thing. 17 And then they each have in-service. 18 Volunteers have in-service each year, as do the 19 contract staff. And again, it's highlighted then, how 20 to report it and what to be reported. 21 MS. ELLIS: Are these individuals that come in 22 for special programs, when you say volunteers and the 25 1 contract folks? Who come into the facility to provide 2 special programs? Is that who these folks are and what 3 they do when they come in? 4 MS. HILL: Yes, ma'am. From religious 5 programming to Alcoholics Anonymous to NA to, you know, 6 all the different programs. We have a very extensive 7 programming. I can't even list them all. GE 8 education. 9 MR. McFARLAND: But when you're talking about 10 contractors, you're not talking about volunteers. 11 You're talking about the folks in food service? 12 MS. HILL: Food service, medical, all the 13 contracted staff, also are told the same thing. So 14 inmates have many ways that they -- they can tell 15 anyone. And as Mr. Clay was saying, the big thing with 16 them is the three-way calling. They'll call home and 17 have the somebody at home call someone else. 18 MS. CHUNN: Do you ask your contractors and 19 your volunteers on a routine basis whether or not there 20 have been any allegations or any conversation that 21 might would suggest that there's a problem? I 22 understand they've been trained in what to do. But 26 1 that would assume that they would have to take the 2 initiative. 3 What I want to know now is: Do you take the 4 initiative in ever soliciting feedback from them about 5 this particular matter? 6 MS. HILL: I would have to answer that in that 7 we have a very, very stringent zero tolerance. And 8 it's one of the things that everybody knows. It is far 9 from one of the phantom policies, you know. Everybody 10 knows we have a zero tolerance. 11 And it's often a topic of discussion. And if 12 any -- if one staff hears another staff member or 13 volunteer or contractor make a comment, then everyone 14 knows -- not peer pressure but what is the word I 15 want? -- peer support to do the right thing. 16 MR. McFARLAND: When is the last time you 17 heard among staff any discussion of sexual assault? 18 MS. HILL: Of it happening or what they are to 19 do? 20 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. You're just saying that, 21 you know, this sounds like this is a frequent topic of 22 conversation among the staff. When is the last time 27 1 that it happened? 2 MS. HILL: I've not heard of people talking 3 about it happening. But I've heard -- as I said, we 4 talk -- we train on this routinely about what to do and 5 what not to do. And if someone hears through the rumor 6 mill that this person is having a relationship with 7 that person, then they write an incident report. 8 Everything gets an incident report. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Other than the various methods 10 of reporting to staff, are there any other ways that a 11 victim could report an allegation? I understand, for 12 example, that they can make a call on this hotline, but 13 it goes directly to Mr. Clay. It doesn't go to a 14 prosecutor. 15 MR. CLAY: No. 16 MR. McFARLAND: It doesn't go to -- was that 17 no, sir? 18 MR. CLAY: That was a no. You're correct. 19 MR. McFARLAND: So other than getting a third 20 party to accept a collect call, how would one get 21 around staff if the staff are the problem? 22 MR. CLAY: There's another way. They can 28 1 purchase a calling card from our commissary, and they 2 can make the calls non-collect. It'll be just charged 3 to their card. 4 MR. McFARLAND: How much would that cost? 5 MR. CLAY: I think they're around $10 or so. 6 MR. McFARLAND: And how much is it going to 7 cost them on that $10 to call the Stryker Police 8 Department or the Ohio State Troopers or something? 9 MR. CLAY: The rates -- yes. I don't know the 10 rates. They vary depending how long they talk. But 11 that is another way of doing it. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. And how much does your 13 typical 23-day resident of your facility have in the 14 way of money in their account? 15 MR. CLAY: I don't know. It varies. Some 16 have significant amounts of money, and others are 17 indigent and don't. 18 MR. McFARLAND: What training have you had 19 with respect to pat-downs and how that process mi 20 affect a female inmate in terms of their privacy? 21 MR. CLAY: As far as pat-downs, I don't do 22 those. I came in the facility as an investigator, and 29 1 I typically don't. But as the agency, we do provide 2 training on that. And regarding the females, now, a 3 male would not pat down a female. We have female 4 officers and they're the ones that -- 5 MR. McFARLAND: Is that a policy? 6 MR. CLAY: Yes. 7 MR. McFARLAND: There is no cross-gender 8 pat-downs? 9 MR. CLAY: There is supervision. But to my 10 knowledge, just the male, you know, pat down the males 11 and the females do the females. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Except in an emergency 13 situation? 14 MR. CLAY: Well, if it were an emergency. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Right. 16 MR. CLAY: But I'm not aware of any at this 17 particular time. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Hill, what's your 19 understanding of any training that your staff gets 20 about pat-downs and how that might affect female 21 inmates? 22 MS. HILL: When corrections officers are first 30 1 hired, they go through 80 hours of pre-service 2 training. 3 MR. McFARLAND: At the academy or something? 4 MS. HILL: No. On basically CCNO policy and 5 procedure. 6 MR. McFARLAND: But where is that? 7 MS. HILL: At CCNO, 80 hours. And it includes 8 I believe it's four hours on pat-downs, searches of 9 that kind, and it is addressed in that situation. 10 Then they have a week of mentoring where 11 they're with another officer for the entire time for 12 that entire week, their third week of employment, where 13 they actually see what the policies and procedures that 14 they just learned in-depth by lecture, how they see how 15 those are put into practice. 16 Then at some point during their first year of 17 employment, they attend the 136-hour Basic Corrections 18 Academy. And the curriculum is through the Ohio Police 19 Officers Training Academy. And there's also a section 20 in there on searches and pat-downs. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Let's talk about strip 22 searches. Are they allowed at your facility? 31 1 MS. HILL: I am really not the right person to 2 ask that. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So in your training in 4 sexual assault investigations, there hasn't been any 5 discussion of whether strip searches are permitted at 6 your facility? 7 MS. HILL: There are strip searches. It's not 8 that I don't know that. There are certain criteria 9 that I do not -- 10 MR. McFARLAND: Sure. 11 MS. HILL: Be them pretrial or not. And I 12 don't want to be wrong. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Well, let me just ask you this 14 scenario. If an inmate was -- you said that strip 15 searches do occur. In fact, all the work release when 16 they come back are strip searched. Isn't that correct? 17 MS. HILL: To my knowledge, yes. 18 MR. McFARLAND: And that's happening out at 19 the M building. Right? 20 MS. HILL: Correct. 21 MR. McFARLAND: And there is one correctional 22 officer who is doing the strip searches at that time, 32 1 as well as being responsible for observing three 2 different pods simultaneously. Is that correct? 3 MS. HILL: Yes, sir. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. There might 5 be -- during the day shift, there would be a case 6 worker across the hall who could help out in a pinch. 7 But we're talking about one person to observe both 8 strip searches as well as keep an eye on what's 9 happening in three other pods. Is that correct? Or do 10 you know? 11 MS. HILL: Again, I would really like to defer 12 that to security, to the commanders. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Sure. Okay. But as 14 investigators, what are you going to do with an 15 allegation that that correctional inappropriately 16 conducted himself in a strip search if you're not real 17 familiar with the criteria for strip searches and how 18 it's supposed to be done and who does it and when? 19 MS. HILL: To be very honest, even if I were 20 going -- if I was familiar with the policy, in doing an 21 investigation I will read the incident reports, what 22 they said, but I would also get out the policy and I 33 1 would look at our policy again to make sure I wasn't 2 missing anything. Even if I was familiar with it, I 3 would still review the policy again. 4 MR. CLAY: That's what we do. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Clay, what would you do? 6 MR. CLAY: Exactly that. We've done it. And 7 although she or I don't conduct strip searches, but if 8 we would get a complaint, we would, you know, grab our 9 policy and review it and see if there was any 10 violations. 11 And staff members, I frequently talk with the 12 director of security on these issues, as well as the 13 executive director. And we do investigate them, and we 14 refer to our policy on the investigations. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Now, when we're talking about 16 strip searches in the M building, does that include 17 cavity search? 18 MR. CLAY: No. No. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So it's dress down, 20 back into their overalls from their work clothes. Is 21 that right? Or do you know? 22 MR. CLAY: I believe so. We don't really deal 34 1 with it. Security would be able to answer that for you 2 very accurately. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Have either of you had any 4 training in how past sexual abuse affects or resurfaces 5 or has symptoms in female inmates? 6 MS. HILL: Yes, sir. The National Institute 7 of Corrections training that we attended, I attended, 8 too, and Mr. Clay went to the investigations of, they 9 both did a section on that. 10 We also have trauma training, which includes 11 any trauma, but obviously that would be major trauma. 12 Any trauma from their past and how certain people are 13 easy victims and how -- and that's part of our 14 training, which we also present to staff on, you know, 15 these people are easy victims, so keep an eye on them 16 especially, that type of training. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Clay? 18 MR. CLAY: Yes? 19 MR. McFARLAND: Have you had any training in 20 that regard? 21 MR. CLAY: I had the NIC training as well. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Either of you, how does past 35 1 sexual abuse manifest itself in a female inmate in a 2 jail? In other words, what might -- how would, as Ms. 3 Hill say, that make an inmate perhaps more of an easy 4 victim, more inclined to submit to or even seek, 5 consensually -- 6 MR. CLAY: Yes. 7 MR. McFARLAND: -- a sexual relationship? 8 MR. CLAY: I believe it would,, yes. 9 MS. HILL: I would say that sometimes -- let's 10 say they were victims as children. Females will think 11 this is just the way it's supposed to be. And although 12 that is wrong, that is often the way -- you know, this 13 is the way it's been since I was little, and this is 14 otherwise mom's boyfriend treated me, and her next 15 boyfriend, and her next boyfriend. And this is just 16 the way it's supposed to be. 17 Often, I think, if I remember correctly, they 18 may be promiscuous or end up with prostitution, and 19 then that's their way to get something. That's all 20 they have to offer. So I'll offer you this if you give 21 me that. And then we're talking about the staff -- you 22 know, them seeking it out in order to get something 36 1 that they want, if that was the question. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. "Them" being the inmates 3 seeking to get a staff member to provide contraband in 4 return for sexual favors? 5 MS. HILL: Exactly. Like that's all they have 6 to offer. 7 MS. ELLIS: By the same token, did your 8 training also include information about females perhaps 9 being passive and unwilling to report or to speak 10 out -- 11 MS. HILL: Yes, ma'am. 12 MS. ELLIS: -- or frightened, as well as some 13 of the other behaviors that you describe? 14 MS. HILL: Yes, ma'am. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Did you get any training about 16 the importance of programming in preventing sexual 17 assault, keeping people involved and busy with 18 constructive activity? Either of you? 19 MS. HILL: That was included in our training 20 with NIC. And also, part of our institutional 21 philosophy, I think that, as I said, we have extensive 22 programs for a jail. We have a lot of programs. And 37 1 when we were accredited, that was one of ACA's 2 comments, that they just could not believe all the 3 programmings that were available, especially when the 4 average stay is only 23 days. But there were things 5 available to keep them busy. 6 MR. McFARLAND: So you see that as part of the 7 PREA prevention process, having programs? 8 MS. HILL: Absolutely? 9 MR. CLAY: Yes. 10 MR. McFARLAND: Avoiding idleness? 11 MS. HILL: Absolutely. 12 MR. CLAY: Yes. 13 MR. McFARLAND: That's good. What about the 14 importance of victim assistance, the importance of 15 having means by which victims can get mental health 16 therapy, access to rape crisis counselors, other 17 assistance, medical assistance? Is that -- did you get 18 any training about how that is part of a prevention 19 strategy? 20 MS. HILL: That was included in our training. 21 And as I said, we have all that information posted in 22 the units. And when they're -- well, in the one 38 1 investigation that we did last year, we called First 2 Call for Help, which is a victims assistance, and they 3 came out and talked to the offender. 4 MS. ELLIS: They came out and had a discussion 5 with the person identified as a victim? 6 MS. HILL: Yes. 7 MS. ELLIS: You mentioned a trauma associated 8 with sexual assault, psychological trauma and mental, 9 psychological levels. It has a great deal to do with 10 lack of trust, lack of trust in institutions, lack of 11 trust in oneself. Might that be another reason why you 12 might see some unusual behavior in terms of females who 13 have perhaps been abused, and also have been assaulted, 14 sexually assaulted, while in an institution? 15 MS. HILL: Absolutely. 16 MS. ELLIS: That the lack of trust may be a 17 reason why a female may fail to report, or may not 18 trust your process for investigating? 19 MS. HILL: Absolutely. 20 MR. CLAY: Yes. 21 MR. McFARLAND: What are the characteristics, 22 Mr. Clay, of an inmate in jail who is more likely to 39 1 become a sexual assault victim? 2 MR. CLAY: It could be a young, particularly 3 young male, or female, for that matter, not aggressive, 4 not -- kind of a follower type. I mean, it's usually, 5 you know, in many cases they would prey upon the weak, 6 and I think it would be the weak ones in that regard. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Any other characteristics that 8 you can identify, either physical characteristics or 9 temperament of background or criminogenic background? 10 MR. CLAY: Their background, as Ms. Hill 11 referred to, you know, if they've been a past, you 12 know, victim of sexual assault, I don't know if it's 13 expected. But, I mean, it happens. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Hill, same question. What 15 are characteristics of a potential victim? 16 MS. HILL: Possibly physically -- 17 MR. McFARLAND: Excuse me. 18 (Pause) 19 MS. HILL: Physically slight, maybe, I would 20 imagine. Someone that's just been -- their first 21 incarceration. They're scared. They've watched too 22 many movies and that's what they expect, even though 40 1 that is not correct. Mentally handicapped or learning 2 disability, I would imagine, would make them 3 more -- homosexuals would make them more of a potential 4 victim. I know there was a list. I'm trying to 5 remember. 6 MR. McFARLAND: And where is this list coming 7 from? Is this from the training? 8 MS. HILL: From the training, yes. 9 MS. ELLIS: From the training. I see. 10 MR. McFARLAND: You haven't been in the 11 investigator role for a year yet. Is that right? 12 MS. ELLIS: Almost. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Or was it longer? 14 MS. HILL: Yes. I've been doing it for 15 several years. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, I'm sorry. 17 MS. HILL: But I'm not involved in all 18 investigations, just those that involve sexual 19 misconduct. 20 MS. CHUNN: I'd like to turn the conversation 21 on the other side of that for a moment. We all know 22 that there are people who are attracted to this work 41 1 with the hope of victimizing people. Just the 2 relationship, power relationship, makes it often 3 something that they think they can get away with. 4 What screens do you have in place that would 5 help you to identify staffers who might demonstrate a 6 predisposition toward that? 7 MS. HILL: Well, the hiring process would be 8 the first step. We have an application process. And 9 they take a test, which is put on through Ergometrics. 10 It's a situational video test, and then a reading and 11 accounting test. And those that past the video 12 situational -- it's a judgment test -- then they go on 13 to the video process. 14 The interview panel is myself and two 15 corrections supervisors, people that have been in our 16 facility for quite some time who really have a feel for 17 people. I know in the interview process, everybody has 18 the right answer or tries to have the right answer. 19 I think -- I'm very proud of all of our staff. 20 But our supervisors tend to know, you know, the 21 corrections officers, how they come across, how they 22 will be to inmates and how inmates will be to them. 42 1 And then they go through a background, a 2 police background check. That includes a LEADS test 3 and a criminal history. And then we have a reference 4 check, where we ask if there's ever been any issues 5 with sexual harassment or violence or illegal drug use 6 or anything like that in the workplace. And that's all 7 before they're hired. 8 And then we make a conditional offer of 9 employment. And then they go to a psychological test, 10 where they're given the MMPI and the CPI, and there's 11 also an interview with the psychologist, before they 12 even start. 13 MS. CHUNN: That's impressive. 14 MS. HILL: And then we have, as I said 15 previously, the two-hour pre-service -- or two-week 16 pre-service, and then the mentoring. They also have a 17 one-year probationary period that -- we're a 18 union -- or we have a union. We have three, actually. 19 But they have a one-year probationary period that at 20 any time during the first year, if there are issues, 21 they can be terminated before they're in the union. 22 MS. CHUNN: During this interview process, the 43 1 initial interview process, when it's you and a couple 2 other people doing the interview right after the video 3 piece, are there any explicit references to sex abuse 4 or impropriety or anything like that? 5 MS. HILL: In the interview itself? 6 MS. CHUNN: Uh-huh. 7 MS. HILL: The closest thing would be, we have 8 a question that is, how would you let the inmates know 9 you're in charge and why would you do it that way? And 10 it's very interesting some of the answers that we get. 11 Sometimes, as you said, some people are drawn to this 12 type of work. 13 Sometimes, you know, if their answer is -- you 14 know, sets off the alarms with us that it's a control 15 thing, you know, that's points against them. You know, 16 if their answer is, the way I carry myself and my 17 verbal skills and my eye contact and that I'm not 18 afraid, and I would follow the rules and know the rules 19 100 percent, that's what we're looking for. 20 MR. McFARLAND: But is there anything in the 21 interview process that communicates to the applicant 22 that staff sexual misconduct is a felony and there's 44 1 zero tolerance for it? 2 MS. HILL: In the interview process pre-hire, 3 no. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Do you take a polygraph 5 test for applicants? 6 MS. HILL: No. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Criminal records check? You 8 may have already answered this. 9 MS. HILL: Yes. 10 MR. CLAY: I do those. We do an extensive 11 criminal history check through NCIC, and we do it on 12 everyone. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Let's ask the flip side of the 14 sexual assault relationship. What are the 15 characteristics, Mr. Clay, of an inmate who is more 16 likely to be a sexual predator? 17 MR. CLAY: Well, their demeanor. Some of 18 them, they'll talk about it. They've probably been a 19 victim of sexual abuse in the past, and we do sometimes 20 see that. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Well, where do you sometimes 22 see that? 45 1 MR. CLAY: Well, in the facility. And the 2 classification people, when they recognize this, they 3 will classify them accordingly. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Now, I was impressed 5 with the fact that your direct supervision officers in 6 each of the pods have a printout, I assume every day, 7 of everybody who's in their pod and any relevant 8 classifications. 9 MR. CLAY: Correct. 10 MR. McFARLAND: And we'll ask later panels 11 about that. But what classification relates to sexual 12 assault, and how does an inmate get classified that 13 way? 14 MR. CLAY: Well, basically, I mean, he was 15 sexually aggressive. He would be classified based on 16 the interview process when he comes in with a 17 classification officer, and they will determine. If it 18 would -- something would surface later, some type of 19 activity, they would be reclassified. 20 MR. McFARLAND: And who applies that 21 classification, SX, to -- 22 MR. CLAY: Well, basically the classification 46 1 are medical. And of course, the commanders, they can, 2 you know, implement reclassification. 3 MS. HILL: We also have a classification 4 meeting each week that includes the case managers and 5 representatives from security, as well as the 6 classification officers who I believe that you're going 7 to speak to. And should could really expound on it 8 much more than I can. 9 But if I understand correctly, if there's been 10 a report made, if someone has witnessed something, 11 written an incident report about sexually aggressive 12 behavior, that is then discussed. And obviously, the 13 commanders who have it could put it on immediately. 14 But they could give them that code. 15 And it is then on their 109, on their 16 printout, for the rest of that incarceration. And it's 17 based on their behavior at the facility this time. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Which inmates are more likely, 19 in your experience, Ms. Hill, to be sexual assault 20 perpetrators? 21 MS. HILL: Again, I'm just trying to recall 22 from the training. I don't have that much contact with 47 1 the inmates themselves. You may do better with getting 2 that from the commanders or whoever. Mine would all 3 come from recall from the training. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Right. Well, fortunately, you 5 don't have firsthand experience with a lot of inmates 6 being victimized, so that's a good thing. 7 MS. HILL: That's true. 8 MR. McFARLAND: So tell me what your 9 understanding is in terms of training, from your 10 training, as to who are the likely perps. 11 MS. HILL: Of those being sexually aggressive? 12 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 13 MS. HILL: As Mr. Clay said, those that are 14 trying to establish power for themselves in the unit, 15 in the facility. That has always -- they've done that 16 on the streets and want to establish that inside as 17 well. They want the power. They want the control. 18 MR. McFARLAND: What about their criminogenic 19 history? 20 MS. HILL: I can't answer that. 21 MS. ELLIS: That profile in terms of 22 individuals most likely to fit the perp characteristic 48 1 profile, how does that differ by gender? Are women 2 different? 3 MS. HILL: I really don't recall. We'll defer 4 again to them. I'm so sorry. 5 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Clay, you can follow up on 6 that. What have you seen? 7 MR. CLAY: As I see it, you know, many of them 8 have been victims of that abuse in the past, and 9 whether -- regardless of gender, my belief on that. 10 MS. ELLIS: So you don't see women playing 11 that out, that role out, any differently from the males 12 in terms of power and -- 13 MR. CLAY: Well, yes, it's probably different. 14 But, I mean, they've typically been victims, you know, 15 before they even came in the facility. 16 MR. McFARLAND: What about sexual orientation? 17 Is that relevant to identifying folks who are more 18 likely to be perpetrators? 19 MR. CLAY: I'm not sure what the question is. 20 MR. McFARLAND: If your staff have identified 21 an individual who they think is homosexual, is that 22 relevant to them becoming more likely to be a victim or 49 1 a perpetrator, or is it irrelevant? 2 MR. CLAY: Well, no, it could be either/or. 3 But they're normally classified with everyone else, and 4 until there's a problem, you know, we don't segregate 5 them. 6 MS. ELLIS: Is race a factor? 7 MR. CLAY: As far as being a victim or an 8 aggressor now? Where are we at? 9 MS. ELLIS: Either? 10 MR. CLAY: Well, yes, it certainly could be. 11 You know, a person of a different race, yes. 12 Absolutely. 13 MS. ELLIS: How does that play out? 14 MR. CLAY: Well, a person that doesn't like 15 whites or blacks may be more sexually aggressive or 16 aggressive and, you know, there obviously can be issues 17 with that. 18 MS. HILL: If I may, from my training and my 19 personal opinion, if we're talking about sexual 20 absolute and rape, it's about control and it's about 21 power. If we're talking about a consensual 22 relationship -- and although consent is not an excuse, 50 1 it's still not okay -- then you're talking about sexual 2 origin, you know, sexual preference. You're talking 3 about a relationship. 4 Neither are right and not allowed. We have 5 zero tolerance. But they're two different things as 6 far as an aggressor and a victim. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Can you elaborate on that? In 8 the "consensual" relationship between inmates, how is 9 race or sexual orientation relevant? 10 MS. HILL: I'm not saying that race is 11 relevant. I just meant that sexual orientation -- if 12 it's a relationship, if I'm in love and it's about sex, 13 then my sexual preference, my sexual orientation, makes 14 a difference. If it's about power and about rape, it's 15 about who I can do this to. It's not about love. It's 16 not about making love. It's about power and control. 17 MR. McFARLAND: What staff are more likely to 18 be sexual assault perpetrators in jail? What's the 19 profile? 20 MS. HILL: There's lots of red flags. There's 21 low self-esteem, recently divorced, money problems, the 22 big one being low self-esteem because if an offender 51 1 can prey on that -- wow, you really look nice today; 2 did you do something -- if they're not getting that at 3 home, if they're not getting that away from the 4 facility, but they are getting that at the facility, 5 then that has a big draw to it. 6 And then once they fall into it, then it just 7 progresses from there. And that is part of the 8 training that we do for our staff, in pre-service and 9 in in-service, that these are the red flags not only to 10 look for in themselves but to look for in their 11 coworkers. 12 And if they see that in their coworkers, that 13 somebody might be falling for the game, then maybe your 14 coworker needs some support, but also report it and let 15 people know what's going on so that we can also look 16 into it and see if there's more there, or if they've 17 already been sucked into the game. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Why would staff snitch on each 19 other? Isn't that going to pretty much destroy your 20 reputation with the rest of the staff? You turned in 21 some -- a fellow staff member who was having -- you 22 know, going through a messy divorce, and she just 52 1 inappropriately touched on one occasion, and you go and 2 get her fired? I mean, why would anybody do that? 3 MS. HILL: Well, zero tolerance is zero 4 tolerance. And by keeping their mouths shut, they're 5 not helping their fellow coworker and they're certainly 6 not helping our facility. And that again is part of 7 our training and part of the code of silence, and it's 8 not tolerated. And I don't know about other facilities 9 that you all have looked into, but the rumor mill is 10 alive and well. 11 MR. McFARLAND: And so how does that work? 12 Does that cut for or against snitching on your fellow 13 employee? Everybody's going to know that you turned 14 them in. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing, or 15 neither? 16 MS. HILL: I don't know that the snitching is 17 a bad -- has a -- I don't know how to say it, but that 18 it has a bad label. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Clay, in your 30-plus 20 years of experience, is there a code of silence among 21 correctional officers? 22 MR. CLAY: I believe there can be. Am I aware 53 1 of one at CCNO? No. And going back to your question 2 of why the person would snitch, I can give you an 3 example, another one. 4 Maybe it's not what you're looking for, but 5 say there's a promotional exam, or, you know, 6 interviews for supervisor. That's when this kind of 7 thing could come out, knock somebody out of the 8 eligibility. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Well, how has the management 10 of CCNO created a culture of zero tolerance such that 11 it would be okay for one staff to turn in another for 12 inappropriate conduct or words? 13 MR. CLAY: It would not only be okay, it would 14 be good, it would be right, and it's preached all the 15 time in training. And it is one of Mr. Dennis' main 16 topics that he very, very aggressively deals with that 17 and gets the word out. So it will not be tolerated 18 and -- it just won't. 19 MS. HILL: As I stated earlier, the directors, 20 our executive director and our director of security and 21 support services, they're out in the units. It's not 22 like they're in an office far, far away. They're out 54 1 in the units. 2 They see the corrections officers. They talk 3 to the corrections officers. The communication is 4 good. Director Dennis has an open door policy. My 5 door is always open. The director of security and 6 support services, same thing, the door is always open, 7 and communication at all levels. 8 And as Mr. Clay said, it starts at the top 9 with zero tolerance, and everybody believes it all the 10 way down. 11 MR. McFARLAND: As HR director, Ms. Hill, does 12 an employee who reports sexual misconduct by staff get 13 any kind of incentive or any kind of recognition or 14 affirmation or monetary bonus or anything like that? Is 15 there any kind of personnel advantage to reporting 16 staff misconduct? 17 MS. HILL: Other than they sleep better for 18 telling the right thing, no. 19 MS. CHUNN: Let me ask you a question about 20 where these incidents can occur. One of the reasons 21 years ago we went to direct supervision was to minimize 22 this kind of thing, where you saw everything all the 55 1 time, and supervision was easier because the line of 2 vision was not impaired, so to speak. 3 When these things do occur, where are they 4 most likely to occur in a facility like yours? 5 MS. HILL: Well, first of all, we're lucky in 6 our physical plant. We've only been there since 1990, 7 so our physical plant is set up direct supervision and 8 always has been. It's not like we were an old prison 9 and then tried to switch it over and had lots of blind 10 spots. 11 And after an incident a few years ago and all 12 the training that we've been through, we made some 13 changes to the physical plant. We really looked at 14 where our problem areas were. And after that, we put 15 in windows. 16 MS. CHUNN: Where were they? Where were they? 17 We have a diagram here before us. Where were they that 18 you made those changes? 19 MS. HILL: Like in the case managers' offices, 20 and we put windows in doors that previously weren't. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Those offices are in the 22 units. Right? 56 1 MS. HILL: Most of them. Correct. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Most of them. Okay. 3 MS. HILL: We changed key access. Previously, 4 supervisors on up had what we call A keys, which is 5 access to all offices, basically. And we really, 6 really restricted that, really restricted that. And 7 when they do get keys to an area that they're not 8 normally allowed into, they have to write an incident 9 report. 10 We also have an automated key box so they have 11 to swipe their card. We know who got these keys out at 12 what time, when they turned them back, on the key 13 report. And as I said, they have to write an incident 14 report as to why they were in there, and we know from 15 when to when. And that helped a lot. 16 We also took blinds off of windows and looked 17 for blind spots. We got more cameras, and I can't tell 18 you how many more cameras; that would be a question for 19 later. But we have more cameras. 20 It is my opinion that if there's a will to do 21 something wrong, they'll find a way, even if I can't 22 figure out how to do it, which is really job security 57 1 for all of us because those inmates have done the same 2 thing. They've tried to find a way to break the rules. 3 They just got caught at it. 4 But we've tried to minimize that, and we 5 continuously try to find ways to minimize blind spots. 6 We've made it so lights stay on in areas all the time. 7 MR. McFARLAND: They're hard-wired to stay on? 8 You can't turn them off? 9 MS. HILL: Correct. 10 MR. McFARLAND: And where has that been done? 11 For example, isn't it in the classrooms that adjoin 12 some of the units? 13 MS. HILL: That is correct. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Where else? 15 MS. HILL: And there are more areas. And I'm 16 sure -- 17 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. We'll ask others. 18 MS. HILL: -- they could tell you. Thank you. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Clay, if I told you that 20 last night an inmate was assaulted by another inmate 21 sexually, where are the places you would look, the most 22 vulnerable places in your facility? 58 1 MR. CLAY: I would look maybe minimum custody 2 unit officers restroom. That would probably be the 3 first place. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Is that J2? 5 MR. CLAY: Yes, it could be. Could be. Yes, 6 that would be a minimum custody unit. That would 7 probably -- you know, not having knowledge of where it 8 occurred, that's probably where I would look. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Where else? 10 MR. CLAY: A janitor's closet or, you know, 11 any area, you know, not in view of the other 59 other 12 inmates. 13 MR. McFARLAND: All right. Well, help us with 14 where that would be. Where are there not cameras? 15 Where are there the fewest correctional officers, the 16 fewest case workers? What time of day would it 17 probably be? 18 MR. CLAY: I would -- the kitchen, perhaps, 19 you know. And although there's cameras, if they could 20 get out of -- I mean, in the past that was always a 21 concern of mine, what type of activity could happen 22 there. But we've implemented additional cameras, and 59 1 hopefully we can implement additional ones on top of 2 those. 3 But, you know, wherever they can find a place, 4 you know. But as far as the units go, that would be 5 the first place I looked. You know, the hallways if 6 there's no camera, if there's -- not accessible to 7 everyone. It just could be endless. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Hill, where would you 9 look? 10 MS. HILL: I would ask them, first of all, 11 where this took place. As I said, nothing comes right 12 to the top of my mind. But I think if there's a will, 13 they would try and find place. But nothing -- I would 14 agree with Mr. Clay. Probably a janitor's closet. But 15 it would have to be -- there would be someone see them 16 go in there or someone see them come out of there, is 17 my initial response. 18 MS. ELLIS: What does your laundry area look 19 like? 20 MS. HILL: Off by the kitchen. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Have you got a camera -- you 22 have a camera in there? 60 1 MS. HILL: I think there's a camera in the 2 hall. 3 MR. McFARLAND: In the hall? Is there a 4 camera in the laundry room? 5 MS. HILL: I believe that there is. 6 MR. CLAY: Yes. I believe there is. 7 MS. HILL: I told you they'd be way better at 8 this. 9 MR. McFARLAND: That's their area. 10 MS. ELLIS: They're anxious to talk about it, 11 I can tell. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Have you thought about the lab 13 room in the medical area? Is that a place that you 14 would want to look? 15 MR. CLAY: Yes. Any area, yes. That would 16 be -- certainly could be. 17 MR. McFARLAND: The dry storage room in the 18 kitchen? 19 MR. CLAY: Absolutely. Absolutely. 20 MR. McFARLAND: You had an incident there, 21 didn't you? 22 MS. HILL: I believe that was related to one, 61 1 yes. Any of those areas that -- it could happen. 2 MR. McFARLAND: What about transport in the 3 vans? You provide -- your facility provides the 4 transportation to and from. Is that right? 5 MR. CLAY: Correct. 6 MS. HILL: That's correct. 7 MR. McFARLAND: So you've got inmates coming 8 in every day. You've got inmates leaving every day. 9 You've got inmates going to court hearings and coming 10 back. Is that correct? 11 MR. CLAY: Yes. 12 MR. McFARLAND: And is that a place of concern 13 for sexual assault, in your opinion? 14 MS. HILL: I believe there's two staff members 15 present when they transport offenders. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Well, that wasn't my question. 17 Is that place -- is that a vulnerable area or situation 18 for sexual assault or sexual misconduct? 19 MS. HILL: I believe it could be. But having 20 two staff members helps. They're not quite as private, 21 you know, an inmate and a staff member one on one, 22 having the second staff member present. 62 1 MR. McFARLAND: Are either of you aware of the 2 incident last year involving a female inmate who 3 exposed herself to a male inmate and allegedly gave 4 oral sex, allowed herself to be touched, and put on 5 quite an event for the rest of the bus while two 6 correctional officers were present? 7 MR. CLAY: Yes. 8 MS. HILL: I read the incident reports, yes. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So this is not a 10 theoretical possibility? 11 MR. CLAY: No. No, it can happen. 12 MR. McFARLAND: What has happened differently? 13 MR. CLAY: I would refer the security to the 14 measures that they had taken, unless *Selina 15 knows -- Ms. Hill knows them. 16 MS. HILL: I would also. 17 MR. CLAY: But yes. It can happen, 18 absolutely. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Who is the PREA representative 20 at your facility? Who's responsible for making sure 21 that PREA is implemented and trained? 22 MR. CLAY: That's Director Dennis. 63 1 MR. McFARLAND: Are you aware of the event 2 that was discovered I guess about five years ago at 3 your facility involving a correctional supervisor 4 having sex with several female inmates over the course 5 of two years in one of the educational offices? 6 MR. CLAY: That was over seven and a half 7 years ago, prior to my becoming an employee. And of 8 course I've heard of the incident, but I did not work 9 at the facility then. Partly, I believe, my job was a 10 follow-up to that, in a sense that CCNO wanted an 11 outside investigator with law enforcement background to 12 start conducting these types of investigations. And I 13 believe that's partly how I ended up at the facility. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Hill, do you recall that 15 event? 16 MS. HILL: Yes. Actually, that was almost ten 17 years ago that a supervisor sexually offended. 18 MR. McFARLAND: You don't have to mention the 19 name. 20 MS. HILL: Yes, sexually offended. And that 21 was right when I started, was when that happened, his 22 termination and criminal case. 64 1 MR. McFARLAND: Are you aware of anything that 2 was done remedially to prevent that from happening? 3 MS. HILL: I think after that, there are 4 major, major, huge changes. Training was changed a lot 5 after that. As I said, the physical plant changes. 6 That's when we really looked at ourselves and said, how 7 could this have happened? And we need to make sure 8 this doesn't ever happen again. And so that's when a 9 lot of the changes happened. And that was pre-PREA we 10 started making these changes. And so it put us in a 11 good position when PREA came along to just expound upon 12 these changes that we've made. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Does a correctional officer at 14 your facility have to report an allegation of sexual 15 assault? Is he required to do so? 16 MR. CLAY: Yes. 17 MS. HILL: Absolutely. 18 MR. McFARLAND: And what happens if they don't 19 and it's proven that they were aware of it, Ms. Hill? 20 MS. HILL: In 2007, we -- well, it wasn't even 21 sexual assault. It was staff sexual misconduct. We 22 had a corrections officer that knew of a contract 65 1 employee that had developed a relationship with an 2 inmate. This corrections officer, not only did he not 3 report it, but when asked about it, he lied about it. 4 And he was subsequently terminated for that. 5 MR. McFARLAND: And what happened to the 6 contractor who had the relationship? 7 MS. HILL: She had resigned prior to -- as 8 soon as she thought we knew, she resigned. We 9 continued the investigation. We tried to get the 10 offender to meet with us. We set up an appointment. 11 He, amazingly, didn't show up. We tried to meet with 12 her repeatedly, and she wouldn't come in and answer 13 questions, either. But they live together, so it was 14 kind of obvious. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Well, why was she allowed to 16 resign as opposed to be referred to prosecution? 17 MS. HILL: We could not establish that 18 anything happened at the facility other than that they 19 talked, that no sexual contact or misconduct happened 20 at the facility. 21 If I remember correctly, the inmate was 22 telling the other inmates, "After I'm released she's 66 1 going to come to work with a hickey." And she did. 2 And we could not establish at all from anyone anything 3 that had happened at the facility, any physical contact 4 at all other than -- 5 MR. McFARLAND: Is there -- 6 MS. HILL: Excuse me. Go ahead. 7 MR. McFARLAND: No, please. 8 MS. HILL: The only thing is she was washing 9 windows and he was supporting her as she was washing 10 windows, but not necessarily sexual contact or sexual 11 misconduct. 12 MR. McFARLAND: And this was in the facility 13 prior to release? 14 MS. HILL: Correct. 15 MR. CLAY: If I may add to that, the inmate 16 involved, he recently came back into the facility, and 17 Director Dennis advised me right away. I went back and 18 talked to him and tried to interview him. And of 19 course, he denied anything other than that he has a 20 relationship with a former employee afterward. And 21 we're not letting it go. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. I spoke with him as well 67 1 on Monday, and he was proud of the fact that he still 2 has that relationship. They are "still together." 3 MS. HILL: Our rule is six months from the 4 time the offender is released till they can have a 5 relationship with an employee. Clearly, it wasn't six 6 months. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Well, how is -- so clearly 8 they violated that, this contractor, food service 9 contractor. Right? 10 MS. HILL: Right. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Clearly she violated that ban 12 on relationships within six months of release. 13 Correct? 14 MS. HILL: Correct. 15 MR. McFARLAND: But she was allowed to resign? 16 MS. HILL: Actually, if I remember, she came 17 to work with the hickey, and then that's when it 18 all -- the reports were made that she's got this 19 hickey. We think it was from this inmate. That 20 happened like on Saturday. We got the reports on 21 probably Monday or Tuesday. 22 She went to the hospital, left early, said she 68 1 was having chest pains, never came back to work, and 2 then she resigned. She only worked a few days -- I 3 can't tell you the exact -- I don't know if you 4 remember? 5 MR. CLAY: No. 6 MS. HILL: But she wasn't -- after it was 7 reported, she wasn't there but a day or two, and she 8 never came back. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Is there anything preventing 10 her from being criminally prosecuted? 11 MS. HILL: As I said, we couldn't establish 12 that there was anything that happened actually at the 13 facility. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So there's a policy 15 that discourages having a relationship within six 16 months of release with an inmate, but there's no teeth 17 in it? What's to enforce that? 18 MS. HILL: They'll lose their job. 19 MR. McFARLAND: The worst thing that could 20 happen is I can just leave and not show up again. 21 MS. HILL: They'll lose their job. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. So there's no criminal 69 1 penalties. Is that correct? 2 MR. CLAY: Not unless we've established that a 3 crime had occurred, there would certainly be no 4 criminal penalties. And we could not. 5 MR. McFARLAND: So it's your understanding as 6 the investigators that it is not a crime in Ohio to 7 have a relationship with an inmate within six months 8 after release that has been developed while the person 9 was imprisoned? 10 MR. CLAY: Yes. I'm not aware of any crime of 11 that nature other than if there was sex involved during 12 the incarceration, it would be a felony. 13 MR. McFARLAND: We're going to take a 14 ten-minute break, and then we'll have some more 15 questions. Thank you. 16 (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 17 MR. McFARLAND: We're back on the record. 18 Ms. Hill, when you were talking about the 19 kitchen contractor who developed the relationship with 20 the inmate, is that documented in a memo dated October 21 19, 2007, location, HR office, and it's a one-page 22 memorandum that you all produced? 70 1 MS. HILL: Does it talk about my conversation 2 with like -- 3 MR. McFARLAND: It appears to be someone's 4 report -- it doesn't say who wrote it or who it was 5 going to -- someone's report about this incident with 6 the food service individual and the inmate, Mr. Burdis. 7 MS. HILL: It's dated what? October -- 8 MR. McFARLAND: October 19. 9 MS. HILL: Thank you. I believe these are my 10 notes on the investigation. These are my notes. I 11 spoke to the food service employee's supervisor, and 12 these are my notes on my conversation with her. And it 13 was part of the investigation on whether the 14 corrections officer knew about the relationship and had 15 reported the relationship. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Can you just walk us 17 briefly through what you did to investigate this 18 alleged relationship? 19 MS. HILL: As soon as there was an incident 20 report written -- 21 MR. McFARLAND: By whom? And I notice, for 22 the record, Mr. Clay has just handed you a document. 71 1 Can you identify that for the record? 2 MS. HILL: This is the fact-finding on Lisa 3 Burdis and Chris Leedy. We received a report from the 4 food service director that she felt that the kitchen 5 supervisor may be having an inappropriate relationship 6 with an offender. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Are you reading from a memo of 8 October 12 from Toby Bostater to Mr. Dennis? 9 MS. HILL: Yes, sir. 10 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Well, we've got that, 11 so we can just put it into the record. 12 So in response to this memorandum, was there a 13 separate incident report prepared? Or was this 14 basically the incident report, this October 12 15 document? 16 MS. HILL: October 2nd is when he -- when Toby 17 Bostater received the incident report. Well, I don't 18 even know if it was a written report. I believe that 19 she told him verbally. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Who told whom? 21 MS. HILL: The food service director told the 22 manager of offender services. The food service 72 1 director is a contract employee. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. Yes. 3 MS. HILL: She reports to the CCNO employee 4 that is the manager of offender services. She told 5 him, hey, I think these -- they might be having an 6 inappropriate -- they're getting way too friendly. He 7 then conducted a fact-finding, ran the employee's phone 8 number. That's part of the things we do on a routine 9 basis to see if any of their home phone numbers or cell 10 phone numbers come up that the offenders are calling 11 their phones, their home phones, their cell 12 phones -- any employee, not just these but any 13 employee -- to see if there was any record there. 14 Spoke to different people in the kitchen, other food 15 service employees, and -- 16 MR. McFARLAND: This is Mr. -- is it Ms. 17 Bostater? 18 MS. HILL: Bostater. Correct. 19 MR. McFARLAND: So this October 12 document is 20 what he or she -- 21 MS. HILL: What he did. 22 MR. McFARLAND: What he did? Okay. You 73 1 weren't involved at this point? 2 MS. HILL: No, sir. And that's when I was 3 talking earlier how the allegation was made, and then 4 the employee went to the emergency room with chest 5 pains and didn't come back. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 7 MS. HILL: This documents that happening. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. Now, at the top of that 9 document, it says in handwriting, "Tim: Approved for 10 investigation." Mr. Clay, is that a notation from Mr. 11 Dennis approving you to take over the investigation? 12 MR. CLAY: That is correct. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And so how is it, Ms. 14 Hill, that you got involved in this as well? Were you 15 assisting Mr. Clay in the investigation? 16 MS. HILL: That is correct. And also 17 because -- I also got involved when Mr. Leedy, who was 18 the corrections officer, being our staff member and 19 having knowledge of -- when Mr. Bostater talked to the 20 corrections officer about having knowledge of this 21 relationship, I was in the office with him and 22 witnessed that conversation and asked Mr. Leedy, why 74 1 didn't you report it? And did you know you were 2 supposed to report it? 3 And he agreed that he did know and that he 4 knew he should have, and he was just being loyal to his 5 friend as opposed to doing the right thing. And as I 6 stated previously, he was terminated for failure to 7 report and lying because he lied to his supervisor. 8 MR. McFARLAND: How was his termination, Mr. 9 Leedy's termination, communicated, if at all, to the 10 rest of the staff? Did they say, you know, he 11 resigned, he's not coming back, the rest of it's 12 private? What was communicated to the staff? 13 MS. HILL: Actually, he had a union 14 representative with him, I know at the termination if 15 not before that. And it was not grieved. His 16 termination was not grieved. Basically, I believe the 17 union agreed that, you know, he had no more credibility 18 because he had lied and he didn't do the right thing. 19 And then we pulled our security clearance and did not 20 allow him back into the facility. 21 MR. McFARLAND: But my question is: Was 22 anything said to the rest of the staff about why Mr. 75 1 Leedy was not returning? 2 MS. HILL: I don't remember. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Clay, do you remember? 4 MR. CLAY: No. It's not part of my duties. I 5 don't -- you know, I do my investigations and turn them 6 in, and that part I don't deal with. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Hill, though, you head up 8 human relations for CCNO. What's your usual practice 9 when someone is terminated for cause? 10 MS. HILL: Well, under union contract, 11 discipline has to be done confidential and in a 12 professional manner, and it is. That does not mean 13 that it does not get out as to why after he is -- you 14 know, once his security and his employment is 15 terminated and he no longer works there. People know. 16 MR. McFARLAND: In any of your 17 briefings -- well, we'll ask the shift commanders about 18 post briefings. But are you aware of any time or any 19 way that, with or without names, the fact that Mr. 20 Leedy had been terminated was conveyed to the staff at 21 CCNO? 22 MS. HILL: Officially, not that I'm aware of, 76 1 other than he is no longer employed here. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Another document produced by 3 your facility is a memo from you, Ms. Hill, and Mr. 4 Clay dated January 24 of this year to Mr. Dennis 5 entitled, "Sexual assault complaint" from a particular 6 offender. Do you have that document? Three pages. 7 MR. CLAY: What was the date on that? 8 MR. McFARLAND: January 24, 2008. 9 MS. HILL: Do you have it? 10 MR. CLAY: I think so. 11 MS. HILL: Yes, sir. We have it. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Can you walk us through, 13 either one of you, how this sexual assault complaint 14 was -- and this is a staff-on-inmate allegation. 15 MR. CLAY: Yes. 16 MR. McFARLAND: How was this investigated? 17 MR. CLAY: We investigated it. Again, we were 18 jointly assigned by Director Dennis. The offender 19 reported to staff members that he had been sexually 20 assaulted three months prior to the date that we got 21 involved. 22 The offender was -- we never established that 77 1 anything happened, that an assault happened. He was 2 iffy, thought it could have happened. He is the inmate 3 that I referred to as contacting the FBI. He tried to 4 get the National Guard to even come to the facility. 5 And we even sent him out and had him examined, even 6 though it was months after the assault was alleged. 7 And again, we found nothing. 8 I mean, as far as investigation, we got the 9 sheriff's department involved. They did their separate 10 criminal investigation. They dropped the 11 investigation. They as well as we found no evidence to 12 establish anything to indicate that assault had 13 occurred. 14 MS. HILL: He alleged that while he was 15 sleeping, he woke up and his "booty was greased up." 16 And he thinks someone may have violated him. But he 17 didn't know who or if he had, or maybe it was a finger. 18 It was -- we listened to his phone calls home. That's 19 also part of the investigation. 20 It was right before Christmas that he had made 21 these allegations, and he had told -- I don't remember 22 if it was his son or his grandson that he would be home 78 1 by Christmas because they think that if they are 2 assaulted, that they will be released, if they are 3 victims of sexual assault, that they will be released. 4 MR. CLAY: Clearly we find that these type of 5 complaints that we have found non-sustained, they're 6 trying to manipulate their way out of the facility. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Well, wasn't there some 8 physical evidence, the jumpsuit? 9 MR. CLAY: Well, he had a jumpsuit on. But 10 again, this was months ago. I mean, he waited months. 11 And every time we tried to even talk to him, he just 12 became belligerent. 13 MS. HILL: It was months after that he 14 reported it, not months after that we talked to him. 15 Months after that he reported it. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Is there anything you'd do 17 differently in hindsight about that investigation? 18 MR. CLAY: Not that I can think of. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Clay, we have a document 20 written by you to Mr. Dennis dated June 13, '07, 21 complaint from an offender regarding a June 11 22 incident. Do you have that two-page memo? 79 1 MR. CLAY: I am looking for it here. I do not 2 have that document that I can see, Mr. McFarland. 3 Okay. I have it in my hand now. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Can you walk us through your 5 involvement in this incident? 6 MR. CLAY: Well, basically, I interviewed the 7 offender along with his case manager, stating that 8 someone had sent him a note and then made some graphic 9 conversation in regard to that. And we talked to him, 10 and we could not determine that anything had actually 11 occurred in the way of any type of sexual assault. And 12 we placed Keep Separates on him, and the one inmate was 13 reclassified. So we kept him separated. 14 MR. McFARLAND: What are Keep Separates? 15 MR. CLAY: What a Keep Separate is is when 16 there's an issue between two inmates for whatever 17 reason -- maybe they, for example, have a vendetta for 18 some reason against an inmate, or they have problems in 19 the past or whatever -- we put them in separate units. 20 We never allow them to get near each other. 21 MR. McFARLAND: I notice the booking sheets 22 dated June 12, 2007 for the two offenders involved in 80 1 the allegation. The alleged victim is a white male, 2 age 23, weighing 135 pounds, 5 foot 11 inches, and the 3 alleged perpetrator, age 44, a black male, 6 foot, 4 weighing 195 pounds. Is that, in your experience and 5 training, an unusual disparity of, you know, physical 6 stature and age for these kinds of allegations? 7 MR. CLAY: Not at all. That would be, 8 unfortunately, typical. 9 MR. McFARLAND: The older, more streetwise, 10 heavier, bigger build individual is probably going to 11 be preying on somebody who's got 70 pounds less and -- 12 MR. CLAY: Absolutely. As I said before, they 13 prey on the weak. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Have either of you 15 investigated any complaints or incidents regarding a 16 particular female officer who seems to get in an 17 inordinate number of incidents of masturbation and 18 exposure to her? 19 MR. CLAY: I have not. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Hill? 21 MS. HILL: We have not conducted an 22 investigation in reference to that, no. 81 1 MR. McFARLAND: Do you know of any officer who 2 would match that description? 3 MS. HILL: I believe I know who you're talking 4 about, yes. 5 MR. McFARLAND: I'm sorry? 6 MS. HILL: I believe I know who you're talking 7 about, yes, that there have been incident -- that she 8 writes incident reports or writes offenders up for 9 masturbation? Is that the question? 10 MR. McFARLAND: Whether it's her writing the 11 incident or not, she's frequently or on a number of 12 occasions has been the officer who has had to see 13 somebody expose themselves to her. Are you aware of 14 any officer who seems to attract that kind of 15 attention, at least in 2007? 16 MS. HILL: Yes. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Is that common? What 18 do you make of that? 19 MS. HILL: I don't know that that's common. 20 My opinion is possibly she's a physically attractive 21 officer. I don't know if that might have something to 22 do with it. But she also follows the rules a lot, and 82 1 that is against our policy. 2 And some officers may give them a verbal 3 warning, and I don't know that -- you know, she does 4 what she's supposed to do. She follows the rules and 5 she follows our policy. Now, if they're doing it more 6 when she is in the unit, then I can only speculate as 7 to why. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Well, what's your speculation? 9 MS. HILL: That it's because she's an 10 attractive female, and that's why. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Do you have any reason to 12 believe that she's communicating that that would be 13 welcome, that kind of exposure? 14 MS. HILL: That would really surprise me from 15 her. I'm not saying that wouldn't happen, but that 16 would really surprise me from her. 17 MS. ELLIS: Just one nagging little thing on 18 that. We would then assume that the more attractive 19 you are as a professional working in that environment, 20 the more likely it might be that someone would expose 21 themselves or engage in masturbation in front of you? 22 MS. HILL: I can't say that I can read their 83 1 minds, but I guess that would be possible. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Thank you both very 3 much. 4 MR. CLAY: Thank you. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Appreciate your -- oh, yes. 6 I'm sorry. Why don't you go ahead. 7 MS. ELLIS: Just one thing as we draw to the 8 end of this panel. If you could give one item, one 9 issue, what would that issue be in terms of to what do 10 you attribute your success as a facility, your being on 11 the good list, so to speak? 12 MS. HILL: I would say training and 13 communication. Communication goes with training 14 because we communicate from the top to everyone and 15 have everyone involved in that. So that would 16 be -- that's what I would -- and, you know, we have 17 pretty set policies, and we're lucky we have good 18 staff, and they follow the policies for the most part. 19 MS. ELLIS: So training and communication from 20 you, Ms. Hill. 21 Sir? 22 MR. CLAY: Yes. And I would go along with Ms. 84 1 Hill on that, and training in particular. But also, a 2 good deal of experience before I came into the facility 3 in dealing with investigations. 4 MS. ELLIS: Okay. Thank you very much. 5 MR. CLAY: Thank you. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Thank you both. 7 The next panel will be classification 8 specialist Ms. Carolyn Kuntz and registered nurse 9 Stephanie Garza-Romero. 10 (Pause) 11 MR. McFARLAND: Would you please raise your 12 right hand? 13 Whereupon, 14 CAROLYN KUNTZ 15 STEPHANIE GARZA-ROMERO 16 were called as witnesses and, having been 17 first duly sworn, were examined and testified as 18 follows: 19 EXAMINATION 20 MR. McFARLAND: Please be seated. Would you, 21 Ms. Kuntz, give us your full name and your title and 22 how long you've been at CCNO. 85 1 MS. KUNTZ: My name is Carolyn Kuntz. I've 2 been at the corrections center for 11 years. 3 MR. McFARLAND: And what do you do there? 4 MS. KUNTZ: I am the classification officer. 5 MR. McFARLAND: And what other positions have 6 you held there? 7 MS. KUNTZ: When I first started, I started as 8 an officer, and I worked two years in the units as an 9 officer. And then I went to classification. 10 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Garza-Romero? 11 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I'm Stephanie Garza-Romero. 12 I'm the health service administrator. I've been there 13 seven years. I have been the health service 14 administrator for the past two. I was the director of 15 nursing for three, and I worked the floor for one. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Worked for? 17 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I worked the floor. I was 18 a floor nurse. 19 MR. McFARLAND: I see. 20 MS. ELLIS: A floor nurse? 21 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: A registered nurse, yes. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Are you an employee or a 86 1 contract employee? 2 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I'm a contract employee. I 3 work for Correctional Medical Services. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. Okay. And is that a 5 full-time position at CCNO? 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes, it is. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Now, what preparation 8 have either of you had an opportunity to do for this 9 panel? What documents have you had a chance to review? 10 Ms. Kuntz? 11 MS. KUNTZ: For me, I went back over my 12 training that I have had. In 2007, I had 40.50 hours. 13 In 2008, I've had 37.50 hours, with a projected 55.50 14 for this year. Went over some policies. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Great. Did you review 16 any particular incident reports or anything like that? 17 MS. KUNTZ: I have looked generally at 18 what -- the information that was sent, yes. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Garza-Romero, what have 20 you had a chance to review in anticipation of 21 this -- of your testimony? 22 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: It initiated with a letter 87 1 that we received, and the information that you wanted 2 us to gather and submit. So all of that information 3 I've been through, specifically the two incidents where 4 medical was involved and I had to provide 5 documentation. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Garza-Romero, what one 7 factor would you say accounts for the apparently very 8 low prevalence of sexual assault at CCNO? To what do 9 you attribute that? If there's one thing you would 10 point to, what would that be? 11 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: The administration, the 12 culture of the administration. The facilities culture. 13 It's a zero tolerance. There's no question. Everybody 14 accepts it. You know what you're getting into coming 15 on board. I believe it's having the common goal of 16 succeeding in that. 17 I think that having all of the site-specific 18 policies and procedures only make the task easier. 19 There's very little grey. There's very few things in 20 life that are black and white, and this is one of the 21 things that is black and white and openly accepted. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Kuntz, same question. 88 1 MS. KUNTZ: I think the training that -- you 2 know, right from the beginning, and the communication 3 from the top to the down, through all contract staff. 4 I think the training that we have and -- that's gone 5 over and over. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Kuntz, are you involved in 7 booking? 8 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. What's your involvement 10 there? 11 MS. KUNTZ: After they're brought into the 12 facility and they're booked in, then I classify them 13 and decide which unit they go to. 14 MR. McFARLAND: How do you do that? 15 MS. KUNTZ: We have a classification 16 instrument that we use that's validated by NIC and 17 State of Ohio and for our facility. And there's 18 questions that we go through that we ask about their 19 current charges, past charges, their prison experience, 20 their juvenile history. 21 And we can follow up on CCHs that we check on 22 everybody that comes in. We can check warrants on 89 1 everybody that comes in. We can also go to the prison 2 site on the internet if they've been in prison and we 3 can check on what their behavior was there. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Now, you can. Do you do that, 5 in fact, as a standard policy or -- 6 MS. KUNTZ: We do the CCHs. If they say 7 anything to me that would warrant -- warrants check, I 8 would do that. 9 MR. McFARLAND: What's CCH? 10 MS. KUNTZ: Criminal case history. and if 11 there's anything in their past, I could check the 12 internet, if there was any charges. Or if I wanted to 13 know how they acted in prison, I can check that. 14 MR. McFARLAND: How would you do that? 15 MS. KUNTZ: That's through the internet on the 16 Ohio Jail Information System. You can get on an 17 internet site and check their discipline while they 18 were incarcerated in prison. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Is that a public record? 20 MS. KUNTZ: No. I don't think it is. 21 MR. McFARLAND: So this is password-protected, 22 or it's just -- 90 1 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. Yes, it is. 2 MR. McFARLAND: All right. And what's the 3 instrument or the document, the intake form that you 4 were talking about? Is there a number on that? 5 MS. KUNTZ: It's 4101. 6 MR. McFARLAND: I don't have that. 7 MS. KUNTZ: It's under policy 4101. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Just in the interest of time, 9 could I peek at your copy there? 10 MS. KUNTZ: Sure. 11 MR. McFARLAND: We've got a lot of documents. 12 Now, for the record, 4101-A is a four-page 13 document with -- is it 14 pages long? 14 MS. KUNTZ: No. Probably part of that is how 15 we classify. I think it's four pages long, the actual 16 classification instrument. And then the other one that 17 you might have in your hand is the severity level of 18 each charge. That's in the policy, and the 19 classification tree. If somebody comes in ten days or 20 less, we just do a classification tree on them and ask 21 them more just general questions. 22 MR. McFARLAND: I see. So 4101-A is the 91 1 document that -- the four-page document that you use? 2 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. Yes. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Plus the severity of offense 4 scale. 5 MS. KUNTZ: Okay. Yes. 6 MR. McFARLAND: And then 4101-B and C are for 7 reclassification? 8 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 9 MR. McFARLAND: What are the -- in your 10 opinion, are the questions that you ask that are 11 relevant to determining whether this individual is a 12 risk of being a sexual predator or a sexual victim? 13 MS. KUNTZ: What they're there on currently. 14 If they're in there for rape or GSI or -- 15 MR. McFARLAND: What's GSI? 16 MS. KUNTZ: Gross sexual imposition. 17 MR. McFARLAND: What does that mean? I'm 18 sorry. 19 MS. KUNTZ: That can be more just touching. 20 Sexual battery. If they've been imprisoned before on 21 those kind of charges, that's significant. We watch 22 their demeanor. We notice if they're frail or small or 92 1 seemed very timid or intimidated by my questions. We 2 do ask them if they're homosexual. 3 MR. McFARLAND: You do or do not? 4 MS. KUNTZ: We do. 5 MS. ELLIS: You do ask that question? 6 MS. KUNTZ: Yes, we do. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Where is that on your 4101? 8 And I know I have your copy. 9 MS. KUNTZ: It should be at the end under 10 medical, around medical questions and gang 11 affiliations. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, yes. It indicates page 10 13 at the top as a check for -- right after medical 14 problems and physical impairment is homosexual. 15 "Offender states he/she is a homosexual." There's a 16 check for that. There's one for, "Past or current 17 charge or behaviors indicate that the offender may be a 18 homosexual." 19 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 20 MR. McFARLAND: And what are the kinds of 21 charges or behaviors that in your experience would 22 indicate that? 93 1 MS. KUNTZ: Rape. A lot of times that is. 2 Maybe the gross sexual imposition. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Any others? 4 MS. KUNTZ: Sexual battery. Sometimes public 5 indecency will trigger something. 6 MS. ELLIS: Is there anything on that form 7 that has to do with transgender? 8 MS. KUNTZ: No. But if we ask them if there 9 are medical problems, sometimes that will come up under 10 that question. 11 MS. ELLIS: I see. 12 MR. McFARLAND: What kind of a current charge 13 or behavior indicates that the offender may be a 14 homosexual predator, which is the third check under 15 there? 16 MS. KUNTZ: If they're a predator? Probably 17 the rape. If they're a sexual predator, especially of 18 children, they will come in with rape charges. 19 MR. McFARLAND: There's no lesser charge in 20 Ohio for sexual contact with a minor other than rape? 21 MS. KUNTZ: Gross sexual imposition. 22 MR. McFARLAND: What do you look for and when 94 1 do you apply the SX classification that indicates to 2 the correctional officers in direct supervision that 3 this individual might have a -- might be a higher risk 4 for sexual assault? 5 MS. KUNTZ: After their charges, then we go 6 through their past charges, prison experience. We get 7 65 percent of our inmates from Lucas County. We share 8 the same IR system. If I have any questions or 9 concerns about an individual, I can go back and check 10 theirs to see what they did while incarcerated there. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Like in Lucas County? 12 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 13 MR. McFARLAND: And IR is incident report 14 system? 15 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Is that why meant? 17 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Inmate record. 18 MS. KUNTZ: Inmate record system. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, record system? 20 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. So when I go back and check 21 that, if I have any reason to believe that they are or 22 have been acting out, I can check that. If they've 95 1 been acting out there and been getting rule violations 2 for masturbating -- or I can check the case notes. If 3 they are making inappropriate comments to the case 4 managers, any of that, I can put the SX code on. 5 A lot of times that code comes from -- we do 6 have weekly classification meetings, and that's 7 attended by the two classification officers on first 8 shift, the security staff, medical with a special 9 psychiatric nurse comes to those meetings. Programming 10 comes to that meeting. The commander on first shift 11 comes to those meetings. 12 And if the case manager brings up anything 13 that has been going on, and with repeated rule 14 violations, maybe, of that nature, or incidents, then 15 we could put an SX code on somebody then. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Now, that would be a 17 reclassification, is that right, based on their conduct 18 at your facility? 19 MS. KUNTZ: If they're already at the facility 20 and something goes on, it could be or it might not be. 21 I mean, we wouldn't take them out of that level of 22 security if it's on inmate report. We might move them 96 1 up closer to the front to get them closer to the 2 officer, a better line of vision, not clear back in the 3 back, so during night hours that they have a more 4 direct observation. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. You say they might do 6 this. Is there a policy that you're aware of, a 7 practice that is expected of your direct supervising 8 correctional officers, that they are to move 9 SX-classified inmates closer to them or no? 10 MS. KUNTZ: There is no -- no. There's no 11 policy that says that. That is a practice that we 12 generally do, though. If there's any concern that 13 something's going on, then we try to move them in a 14 better viewing area by the officer. 15 MR. McFARLAND: So, for example, in J-1 where 16 you have 60 women in cots in a dormitory-style setting, 17 it's your testimony that generally, in your facility, 18 if someone is identified SX, they are -- the CO is 19 going to move them closer to the desk of the single CO 20 who's observing those 60 women. Is that your -- 21 MS. KUNTZ: Classification will move them, 22 yes, not the officer. We will move them, yes. 97 1 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Now, last year 9,426 2 persons moved through your unit. And you're the single 3 classification officer. Is that right? 4 MS. KUNTZ: No. There's two others besides 5 myself. 6 MR. McFARLAND: All right. Are you there on 7 the day shift? 8 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Are the majority of the 10 folks admitted during your shift? 11 MS. KUNTZ: I would say probably no. Probably 12 on the second shift. 13 MR. McFARLAND: And that's 4:00 to midnight? 14 MS. KUNTZ: That's around 10:00 in the evening 15 when the bus comes in from Lucas County, around that 16 time. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, okay. 18 MS. KUNTZ: There's one that comes in around 19 2:00 that I usually do them, and then the other 20 classification officer picks up the night bus, then. 21 MR. McFARLAND: I see. How long does it take 22 you to go through this four-page template? 98 1 MS. KUNTZ: It just depends. It depends on 2 the inmate and how much they want to talk and how much 3 they want to ask their questions or how involved their 4 charges. Somebody that comes in on a ten-day DUI 5 doesn't take me near as long as somebody that does come 6 in on a rape. Generally, on a charge like that, it 7 might take me 20 minutes to a half hour. 8 MR. McFARLAND: On a charge like what? The 9 rape? 10 MS. KUNTZ: Rape, yes. 11 MR. McFARLAND: How long would it take you to 12 do a DUI? 13 MS. KUNTZ: Probably about ten minutes. 14 MR. McFARLAND: You're less worried about 15 their situation? It's less complicated, or what? 16 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. Now, we still check the CCH, 17 and if they say anything during that time, we would go 18 on and -- because we do ask them if they've in prison. 19 We would go ahead and do the other if anything came up 20 during that classification that set off any kind of red 21 flags. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Do you really have time to do 99 1 that? 2 MS. KUNTZ: We take time to do that, yes. 3 MR. McFARLAND: And who's "we"? 4 MS. KUNTZ: There's two other classification 5 officers besides myself. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Right. But they're not there 7 during your shift. Right? 8 MS. KUNTZ: One is during my shift. We have 9 kind of some overlapping hours. And then the other one 10 comes in at 4:00 and she works till midnight. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So there's no 12 classification officer on duty on the third shift? 13 MS. KUNTZ: Right. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Not too many buses coming in 15 between -- 16 MS. KUNTZ: Right. 17 MS. CHUNN: Is there ever a time when you do 18 take people in -- let's say maybe there's been a sting 19 or some other situation where you might have a busload 20 of people coming in. Is there any time when you would 21 not go through this process and would do it at a later 22 time? 100 1 MS. KUNTZ: There's a possibility of that, 2 yes. And then the intake does that classification tree 3 in the intake. Then we get it the next day, and then 4 we go out and do the survey on them the next -- the 5 following day. And by policy, we have five days to get 6 that done. 7 MS. CHUNN: Are there ever missing pieces of 8 information that may be held by other agencies and you 9 have, well, some time that's required to get that, or 10 you have problems getting it, or what have you? 11 MS. KUNTZ: I would say once in a while, 12 maybe. Now, if they come from Lucas County, we can 13 access that computer and we can find out everything in 14 the computer from Lucas County that we can do in our 15 computer. 16 Sometimes there might be just some information 17 maybe that I'll call Stephanie about, maybe about their 18 psychiatric history and what's going on with that. And 19 then I'll refer to Stephanie about that. 20 MS. CHUNN: What bearing does this 21 classification within your facility have on any court 22 proceedings that may be in progress or may be related 101 1 to the detainee's stay? 2 MS. KUNTZ: You mean where are they placed? 3 MS. CHUNN: No. I mean does your assessment 4 during intake provide any information to the court 5 that -- 6 MS. KUNTZ: No. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Garza-Romero, you're 8 involved in the health screening of new admittees. Is 9 that right? 10 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: All of the intakes are 11 completed by nurses. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And that would include 13 you? 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 15 MR. McFARLAND: I'm looking at a document that 16 I received at your facility a couple days ago entitled, 17 "Jail Medical Intake Screening," front and back, CMS, 18 your employer's logo on it. Is that what you use? 19 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: That is the medical intake, 20 and we have a mental health intake as well. 21 MR. McFARLAND: And the latter is Form 7123-A, 22 revised on March of '04, and it's entitled, "Intake 102 1 Medical Screening and Assessment"? 2 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 3 MR. McFARLAND: And that's a one-page 4 document? 5 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Do you or your fellow nurses 7 use any other documents or instruments to assess the 8 medical or mental health needs of new inmates? 9 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 10 MR. McFARLAND: What else? 11 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: If someone were to come in 12 and say they were diabetic, there's another sheet that 13 we have to complete. If someone were to come in and 14 say they were pregnant, we have a pregnancy information 15 sheet that we utilize as well. 16 MR. McFARLAND: What if they came in and said, 17 I was raped at my previous institution? Would there be 18 any additional template or any additional assessment? 19 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: There's not a specific form 20 that's completed, but there's a process that they would 21 go through. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. We'll get to that 103 1 process. 2 Do the nurses do both the medical and the 3 mental health screening assessments? 4 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Now, is there anything 6 on the medical screening that calls for information you 7 think is relevant about sexual assault? 8 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Bruising. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Anything else? 10 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Physical appearance. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Anything else? 12 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No. 13 MR. McFARLAND: All right. Then on the mental 14 health document, is there anything that 15 indicates -- that you think calls for information 16 that's relevant to sexual assault? 17 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: There's two questions on 18 the mental health intake screen on the right-hand side, 19 No. 5 and No. 6, and they're specific triggers. If 20 they answer yes to those, they get a referral to mental 21 health. 22 MR. McFARLAND: And those would be No. 5, 104 1 history of sex offenses, yes or no, and No. 6, history 2 of victimization, yes or no? 3 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Correct. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So if they say yes to 5 either or both of those, they get referred to whom? 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: To our registered nurse 7 mental health. 8 MR. McFARLAND: And who is he or she? 9 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Her name is Tammy Schoch. 10 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And is she there 11 full-time or no? 12 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: She is there 40 hours a 13 week. 14 MS. ELLIS: And what is her background and 15 training in terms of mental health? 16 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: She came to us from Maumee 17 Valley Guidance Center, and her training is specific to 18 mental health. And all of our nursing training, basic 19 and through the process of schooling, is we are trained 20 in sexual abuse. 21 MS. ELLIS: How many nurses are on staff? 22 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I have an approximate 105 1 number -- I don't have a specific number -- of 16 2 registered nurses and LPNs. 3 MS. ELLIS: Are any of them SANE? 4 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No, they are not. 5 MS. ELLIS: Have they had the SANE training? 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No, we have not. 7 MS. ELLIS: Is there a reason for that? 8 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: We do not collect forensic 9 evidence. It's in our policy, our CMS policy. We are 10 trained in how to preserve it. And we send them to the 11 emergency room, where they are assessed. 12 MS. ELLIS: I understand that. But do you see 13 any value in having the training nevertheless? 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes, I do. Yes, I do. 15 MR. McFARLAND: So you don't have rape kits on 16 site? 17 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No, we do not. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Are you trained in how to 19 administer one? 20 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No, I am not. 21 MR. McFARLAND: How many times has your 22 facility sent an inmate to ER or any outside medical 106 1 facility, say, in 2007? 2 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: For any reason? 3 MR. McFARLAND: For any reason related to 4 sexual assault? 5 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: In 2007, I can't 6 specifically remember that we did. And as of 2008, we 7 have not as of yet. 8 MR. McFARLAND: How many times in your tenure 9 there has the facility outsourced, you know, has sent 10 an inmate out for a check related to sexual assault or 11 "consensual" sex or anything else? 12 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I can't recall a specific 13 number, but I do believe that we have. And I 14 don't -- I can't remember time frame. 15 MR. McFARLAND: And how do you pay for that? 16 It's on a per-visit basis. Is that correct? 17 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So it costs CCNO money 19 every time they send somebody out to the hospital. Is 20 that right? 21 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Any time we send someone to 22 the emergency room, there's a cost. 107 1 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, Ms. Kuntz, when did the SX 2 classification start at your facility? 3 MS. KUNTZ: Approximately about a year ago. 4 MR. McFARLAND: And what training, if any, has 5 been given to the correctional officers on what SX 6 means and what they're supposed to do in moving them 7 forward or keeping them under closer observation or 8 anything like that? 9 MS. KUNTZ: I believe they all have the PREA 10 training. When the hazards -- that would be the 11 monthly training -- when that began, I believe that was 12 done in briefing. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Do you ever participate in the 14 briefing of COs on your classification? 15 MS. KUNTZ: No. 16 MR. McFARLAND: So you may not be -- you may 17 not have any firsthand information about what training 18 they get on SX category? 19 MS. KUNTZ: That's correct. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Would you be surprised if I 21 said that on most of the units where I spoke to the COs 22 under direct -- who are doing the direct supervision, 108 1 they weren't -- they didn't seem to be real familiar 2 with that classification? Would that surprise you? 3 MS. KUNTZ: Yes, a little bit. Yes. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Well, you don't have 5 many, or do you? 6 MS. KUNTZ: No. 7 MR. McFARLAND: How many times in the last 8 year that you've had that classification have you 9 actually put it on a particular inmate? Do you have 10 any estimate? I mean -- 11 MS. KUNTZ: I can remember four off the top of 12 my head. 13 MR. McFARLAND: And if you reflected longer, 14 would it be dozens? Would it be scores? Would it be 15 maybe one or two more than four? 16 MS. KUNTZ: All I can remember is four. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And is that in the last 18 year that -- you know, both 2007 and 2008? 19 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 20 MR. McFARLAND: And can you recall what 21 triggers in any of those cases led you to the 22 conclusion that they should be SX category? 109 1 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Just tell me one of them. 3 MS. KUNTZ: One of them was a female, and she 4 was getting a lot of rule violations, letters being 5 sent, flashing different ones, a lot of complaints from 6 the other females about being approached. And that was 7 done in the classification meeting, that we all decided 8 that she needed to be placed on that code. 9 MR. McFARLAND: She was approaching other 10 inmates? 11 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Do you recall the indicators 13 on any of the other three SX classifications? 14 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. Yes. There was a male that 15 we put it on. The victim -- I mean, he didn't touch 16 anybody or -- he was just making a lot of sexual 17 comments to someone that had been a first-time offender 18 in there. And he was telling him what would happen to 19 him in prison, and how he would play that role. 20 That was reported by the dorm worker in the 21 unit. That was given to the officer. That person had 22 just come in the night before, and he was -- 110 1 MR. McFARLAND: Which person? The person 2 making the comments or the victim? 3 MS. KUNTZ: The victim. No, the victim. No, 4 the aggressor had been there for quite a while. I 5 pulled him into the office and did his classification 6 at that time. Now, he never revealed to me anything 7 was going on. 8 We went through the survey, and then I asked 9 him, is anything going on in there with the other 10 offenders? And he was reluctant, but then when we got 11 to talking about it, then he did say he was making 12 sexual comments to him and -- 13 MR. McFARLAND: This is the victim you're 14 talking about? 15 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. Yes. So then we separated 16 them and put Keep Separates on them, and we went 17 through the checklist. And I notified the supervisor, 18 and we separated the aggressor from the victim. And we 19 did put an SX code on him. 20 MR. McFARLAND: How about any of the other two 21 SX classifications? 22 MS. KUNTZ: The one that I put on was the 111 1 instance that I told you I went back and checked Lucas 2 County notes. He was making sexual statements to the 3 case manager. He was -- a lot of case notes about him 4 masturbating, coming on to the case manager, that type 5 of thing. 6 And we went -- and he had charges in prison 7 that we sexually aggressive. And we decided at that 8 time -- he had a lot of mental health issues also. And 9 so we decided that we would go ahead -- I consulted 10 with the commander in intake, and we put the SX code on 11 him. 12 The other one was an investigation done by one 13 of the commanders about allegations made in an outside 14 unit. And it was with other offenders. I don't 15 believe there was any touching involved. It was more 16 verbal. 17 MR. McFARLAND: And by outside facility, you 18 mean something -- 19 MS. KUNTZ: No. The outside units. Minimum 20 units, I'm sorry. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, so at CCNO but in the M 22 building or the K building. Is that what you mean? 112 1 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. What's your 3 understanding, Ms. Garza-Romero, of what are the 4 characteristics of an inmate who is at higher risk for 5 becoming a sexual assault victim? 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: A victim? 7 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 8 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Male or female, or 9 both -- or either? 10 MR. McFARLAND: Let's start with a male. 11 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: A male? Someone who has 12 smaller stature. Maybe a little feminine. Possibly 13 homosexual. Someone who makes poor eye contact. Very 14 vague in -- the majority of our interactions with any 15 of the inmates is if they have specific medical 16 complaints, so someone who presented and was very vague 17 and was almost seeking more of the attention rather 18 than having specific complaints of physical ailments. 19 For a female, someone with very poor 20 self-esteem. Someone with a history of sexual abuse or 21 being a victim. Somebody who reports someone who's 22 very promiscuous. Those are the ones that come to mind 113 1 quickly. 2 MS. ELLIS: A follow-up to that question. Do 3 female inmates appear to be more overt in their actual 4 acting out sexual behavior? 5 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. Yes. They seem to be 6 more assertive, more overbearing. They tell you what 7 they want. 8 MS. ELLIS: To what do you attribute that? 9 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: A past history of abuse, of 10 expected behaviors. They expect us to behave in a 11 certain way because that's how they've been treated in 12 the past. So sometimes just shock value. Sometimes 13 they like to shock us. Every time we think we've heard 14 everything, we're taught that there's a lot out there, 15 unfortunately. 16 MS. CHUNN: You know, I'm sitting here 17 thinking you've got a better class of sexual predator, 18 maybe, in Ohio than I know of in other places. I'm 19 thinking about the people who come into the system and 20 are very aggressive about what they plan to do, and let 21 that be known to everybody in the unit. 22 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Sure. 114 1 MS. CHUNN: Some of those people sometimes 2 have sexually transmitted diseases as well. 3 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 4 MS. CHUNN: And I notice you really only have 5 six beds in the medical unit. And I do know how we do 6 that don't ask, don't tell thing, particularly about 7 HIV/AIDS. But have you had occasion to have to use any 8 of your medical beds for one of the more aggressive 9 sexual predators, or to separate somebody who may or 10 may not be diseased? And I'm talking about sexually 11 transmitted diseases now. 12 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: For isolation purposes? 13 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No. No, we have not. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Where would you put them? 16 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: If they had a sexually 17 transmitted disease? 18 MR. McFARLAND: If there was an inmate who you 19 thought was a sexual aggressor and had in the medical 20 history indicated they have an STD? 21 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: That's something that would 22 be discussed with classification because a lot of 115 1 things need to be taken into consideration. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Like what? 3 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Like their security level. 4 Their charges. Their medical condition. How they 5 present. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Kuntz, what else would you 7 discuss with Ms. Garza-Romero in that scenario? 8 MS. KUNTZ: About their classification? If 9 they're sexually aggressive and we know they are, 10 they're going to go to ADSEG. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Administrative segregation? 12 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. Yes. And because that's a 13 very small unit, just a few people come out at a time, 14 we would keep them there, and depending on what their 15 behavior was in there, we can step them down to the 16 maximum security unit, or we can lock them down even 17 more. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Now, where is ADSEG for 19 females? 20 MS. KUNTZ: That would be DF-max. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Right. So they would be on 22 the first floor? 116 1 MS. KUNTZ: It could be first floor or second 2 floor, either one. 3 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Medication compliance would 4 also need to be taken into consideration. If we're 5 actively treating someone for an STD, if they're taking 6 their meds, it's a factor that I would talk with 7 Carolyn about as well because if they are compliant 8 with their medications, once they've been on 9 antibiotics for so long and they're no longer able to 10 transmit, that's something that needs to be taken into 11 consideration for classification as well. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Now, the earlier panel said 13 that when there's information that somebody might be an 14 aggressor, there's a -- or at least in some of the 15 specific incident reports that we asked about, there 16 were Keep Separates imposed on the two individuals. 17 Is it CCNO's policy to not put a victim or 18 potential victim in protective custody, but rather just 19 use Keep Separates to keep them separated from the 20 alleged predator? 21 MS. KUNTZ: We could put them in other units, 22 yes. We just put the Keep Separates on them. But they 117 1 could be in different levels of security. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. And isn't it true that 3 the preference, indeed the policy, at CCNO is rather 4 than putting the alleged perpetrator in disciplinary 5 and effectively punishing the victim by putting them in 6 ADSEG or protective custody, your preference or the 7 policy is just to slap a Keep Separate on the two 8 individuals and make sure that they don't come in 9 contact? Is that fair? 10 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Is that your understanding? 12 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes, it is. 13 MS. CHUNN: And that works? 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 15 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Garza-Romero, when we 17 spoke on Monday and I toured your facilities, I asked 18 you if a sexual assault was going to occur, where would 19 it occur, and you didn't waste any time in showing me 20 the lab room. 21 What would you do differently to eliminate 22 that as kind of the vulnerable place in your facility 118 1 for sexual assault? If you had your druthers and you 2 had some dollars, what would you do? 3 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I'd put a door with a 4 window there. 5 MR. McFARLAND: A window in the door? 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Anything else? 8 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Any time we have an 9 offender on the unit that is not secured in a cell, we 10 have a security officer on the unit and that security 11 officer walks around. You saw the layout of our unit, 12 and it literally is a box. So they walk the corridors. 13 We have people that are being seen on one 14 corner in the emergency room with the physician, and 15 then opposite corner with a psychiatrist or 16 psychologist in another room, and we have inmates that 17 could be in either place or in both places at the same 18 time. So the unit officer is usually walking. So just 19 by walking by and being able to have that glance is a 20 good thing. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Now, just down that same hall 22 on the corner is the physician's office. 119 1 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 2 MR. McFARLAND: And it has windows. 3 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 4 MR. McFARLAND: And it has all the blinds 5 pulled. 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Why is that, and how does that 8 help or exacerbate the potential for sexual assault? 9 Is an inmate ever in the doctor's office? 10 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Absolutely not. No. 11 Absolutely not. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Have you ever seen a 13 medical staffer, or anybody else, for that matter, take 14 an inmate into the doctor's office? 15 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No, I have not. 16 MR. McFARLAND: And that would set off some 17 bells and whistles with you if you did? 18 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Absolutely. It would 19 surprise me greatly that they would break the barrier 20 of the door without somebody stopping them. 21 MS. ELLIS: Excuse me. Just briefly, on 22 another track, have there been any suicide attempts or 120 1 completed suicides in your facility? 2 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: What time frame? In 2007, 3 no. 4 MR. McFARLAND: No successful? 5 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Not successful, no, and 6 none successful in '08. 7 MR. McFARLAND: There were four attempts, 8 right, in '07? 9 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. Right. But no 10 success. 11 MS. ELLIS: How were those handled in terms of 12 follow-up and examination of the event and what 13 precipitated the event? Who handles those? 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: They're all investigated. 15 We look into their -- we do a complete chart review. 16 We see what kind of mental health history. We see what 17 kind of medications are prescribed, if they're 18 medication compliant. First Call for Help is sometimes 19 utilized for crisis intervention. 20 We just do a complete chart review and try to 21 make a picture of what led up to it. What could we 22 have -- what were indicators that we may not have seen? 121 1 Were they on a code? If they were seen by the 2 physician, the reason for being seen by the physician. 3 What they did -- the information they shared with us 4 upon intake. How long were they there? 5 MS. ELLIS: So a review team? 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Absolutely. 7 MR. McFARLAND: What's the profile of a female 8 inmate who is more likely to be at risk of being a 9 sexual assault victim? Earlier I asked the question 10 about a male. 11 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Someone with a history of 12 abuse. Someone who's promiscuous. Someone who has 13 mental health issues, a mental disability, or a 14 physical disability. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Those were all mentioned with 16 respect to male inmates, I think. Are there any unique 17 characteristics unique to females -- 18 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: To just female? 19 MR. McFARLAND: -- that would trigger in your 20 mind higher risk? 21 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Ms. Kuntz, do you have 122 1 an opinion on that? 2 MS. KUNTZ: What comes to my mind is, 3 especially with the females, those that are repeat 4 offenders, that that's their lifestyle in selling 5 themselves or trading themselves on the outside. And 6 once they're -- you know, that's their way of life. 7 And once they come into the jail, you know, that way of 8 life doesn't stop. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. What about inmates who 10 have at least one write-up for lying to staff? Does 11 that make them more at risk to become a victim? 12 MS. KUNTZ: I would say no. 13 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: And being in medical, we're 14 not quite always aware of the disciplinary charges on 15 them. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Sure. 17 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: So we might not be aware 18 that they were written up for something to that effect. 19 MS. CHUNN: But did I understand you to say 20 previously, though, whatever happens in the facility 21 does not have that much bearing on what happens when 22 the person goes to court? Is that right? Did I 123 1 understand that? 2 MS. KUNTZ: The court doesn't usually call and 3 ask me -- 4 MS. CHUNN: Right. 5 MS. KUNTZ: -- me personally, anything that 6 goes on in the facility. 7 MS. CHUNN: Right. 8 MS. KUNTZ: They may call. It's just not 9 classification. It may be the case managers or 10 security. But I'm unaware of that. 11 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: My only involvement with 12 the courts is if the judge is asking about a medical 13 condition, not their disciplinary or anything like 14 that. 15 MS. CHUNN: It would seem to me that the 16 write-ups might not have as much power and influence 17 if, as a detainee, I know it's not going to be used 18 against me when I go to court. 19 MS. KUNTZ: The only thing with that is the 20 judges all know the levels of security and the color of 21 the jumpsuit that they arrive in court in. Now, if 22 they come in a red uniform, the judge knows what 124 1 they're charged with, and if it's not a maximum 2 security charge, then they know they're up there for 3 some reason. 4 MS. CHUNN: Exactly. So the power lies really 5 in the refinement of the classification within the unit 6 should it become necessary to do so? 7 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 8 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I think it's taken into 9 consideration as well for administrative releases, that 10 they've been written up. 11 MR. McFARLAND: What's an administrative 12 release? 13 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: That goes through Jim 14 Dennis, and he probably would be way better at 15 answering that than I. 16 MS. KUNTZ: I'm the one that does 17 administrative releases, and that's when we're 18 overpopulated for three consecutive days. The 19 jurisdiction that's over, anybody that has done 60 20 percent of their time without a rule violation in three 21 months, we send a paper to the judge and say, this is, 22 you know, what their charge is, when they're in, when 125 1 they're out, how much good time they've got. 2 If there's past discipline before that, it'll 3 be on that form, and it'll be all their work programs 4 that they're involved in. And that gets faxed to the 5 judge for consideration for administrative release. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Is that like early release? 7 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Free up a bed? 9 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 10 MS. CHUNN: But you actually put it back in 11 the judge's hands? 12 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 13 MS. CHUNN: So technically, if it backfires, 14 they have a hand in it. 15 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 16 MR. McFARLAND: And each of your five counties 17 have a certain number of beds allocated to them. 18 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 19 MR. McFARLAND: And if they're filled up, you 20 go back to the judge from that county and say, we're 21 either not taking your next individual or you're going 22 to have to free up a bed and here are the candidates. 126 1 Is that the way it works? 2 MS. KUNTZ: Well, it depends on what the count 3 is. The count has to be over three consecutive days. 4 Once we're over 574, then it's the county that's over 5 gets them. Now, if we get over six -- and Director 6 Dennis could tell you the actual numbers -- then he 7 will issue the order to close to that jurisdiction 8 until they release somebody. 9 MR. McFARLAND: We asked about profile of 10 victims. Now let's talk about predators, starting with 11 you, Ms. Garza-Romero. What's your understanding of 12 the profile or the characteristics of inmates who would 13 be higher risk of being a sexual predator? 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: For male, someone who has a 15 history of recidivism, being institutionalized, coming 16 from prison. Someone with a bigger build. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Physical stature? 18 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Physical stature, yes. 19 Their charges. Sometimes their charges. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Like what? 21 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Rape. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. Violent, assaultive 127 1 behavior? 2 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Violent charges. Violent 3 charges. For a female, someone who -- a female who has 4 a somewhat more masculine persona, a little 5 overbearing, a little bit more verbal. We have a very 6 high recidivism rate, so we are very familiar with a 7 lot of our inmates when they come back. 8 Sometimes on the unit we say that we're their 9 primary care health team because they don't seek 10 medical attention on the outside. So some of them 11 just -- in morning, briefing, when we get report on who 12 came in, we're already like two steps ahead than if it 13 was somebody that we weren't familiar with. So their 14 history with us as well. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Kuntz, would you add 16 anything to the profile? 17 MS. KUNTZ: I think a lot is their history. 18 It could be just about anybody, though, if they've had 19 sexual abuse in the past. But we wouldn't know that 20 unless they offer it. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Well, you ask in the 22 screening, or -- 128 1 MS. KUNTZ: Medical does. 2 MR. McFARLAND: -- the nurse does about sexual 3 abuse in the past. Right? 4 MS. KUNTZ: Uh-huh. 5 MR. McFARLAND: So you would know, wouldn't 6 you? 7 MS. KUNTZ: If they tell the truth, yes. 8 Somebody that might be trying to establish themselves 9 in a unit, trying to run the unit, they might be a 10 little bit more sexually aggressive. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Do you have gang presence at 12 your facility? 13 MS. KUNTZ: Yes, we do. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Is that relevant to being a 15 predator or not? 16 MS. KUNTZ: No. I think that's more relevant 17 to being assaultive, but not to being a predator. We 18 do have gang meetings once a month. Actually, I'm on 19 the panel with Director Dennis and supervisors and 20 officers. And we meet once a month to talk about 21 what's going on in the facility, what the gang 22 members -- what they're doing, if anything, if we need 129 1 to split them up. But we've not noted them to be 2 sexually aggressive. 3 MR. McFARLAND: How about gang affiliation 4 being an indicator of a greater risk of being a victim? 5 In other words, isn't it true that an individual who is 6 not a gang member and therefore doesn't have protection 7 is more likely to be a victim? Has that been your 8 experience? 9 MS. KUNTZ: No, because if we know there's a 10 collection of gang members in one unit that seems to be 11 controlling that unit, then we split them up. 12 MS. ELLIS: What kind of gangs do you have? 13 MS. KUNTZ: Crips. Bloods. Aryan Nation. 14 Mexican Mafia. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Aryan Brotherhood? 16 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Do you have a feel for what 18 percentage of your facility today consists of, on any 19 given day, gang members? 20 MS. KUNTZ: You know, I really don't. 21 MR. McFARLAND: I didn't ask the question 22 about staff who would be at higher risk of being a 130 1 predator. What do you know about a staff member's 2 profile who would be more likely to be a predator, 3 sexual assault predator? 4 MS. KUNTZ: I think that's somebody that does 5 have low self-esteem, someone that's probably looking 6 for someone to be in their life for love and affection. 7 Somebody that may like the power of being over numbers 8 of people. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Is gender relevant? Are women 10 officers more likely or less likely to want that kind 11 of attention or relationship? Are they more 12 vulnerable, susceptible? 13 MS. KUNTZ: I think so. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Has that been your experience 15 or is that a guess? 16 MS. KUNTZ: That's a guess. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Have you had any training in 18 that regard? 19 MS. KUNTZ: Just the zero tolerance. I can't 20 give you any specific training on that, no. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Garza-Romero, same 22 question about staff members being more likely to be 131 1 predators. 2 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Someone who likes to be in 3 control. It's difficult in my profession that someone 4 would want to be a nurse and have the attitude of 5 taking advantage of someone else's situation. It's 6 almost a conflict of ethics. Is it possible? 7 Absolutely. But the history that they give me on the 8 units, their work history, is really important. Why 9 they became a nurse is important. 10 MR. McFARLAND: When and where in the medical 11 facility is a professional staff alone with an inmate? 12 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: When a nurse performs a 13 physical, they're alone with an inmate but the door is 14 opened and the officer is on the unit. Any time that 15 an inmate has to expose himself and the door needs to 16 be shut, that would be a time. The physician is never 17 left alone with an inmate. 18 If a nurse needs to step out for any reason, 19 the officer is called to the door and they just stand 20 at the door while the nurse gets whatever they need 21 from the other areas and returns. 22 Our mental health team, the counseling 132 1 sessions, it's the psychologist is one-on-one with an 2 inmate. The psychiatrist is one-on-one. His office 3 has a door with a window. 4 Mental health nurse, she's one-on-one but 5 she's in -- when she goes out to the units, she's in an 6 area away from the other offenders but it's not a 7 private room or anything. 8 MS. ELLIS: In terms of staff's vulnerability 9 to engaging in that kind of behavior, or history for 10 that matter, or tendency for that matter, do you 11 consider other possibilities like level of 12 professionalism? Burnout? Salaries? Overtime? 13 Do you have some consideration in terms of the 14 overall institution regarding conditions and staff 15 conditions? Incentives? Programs, special programs 16 that encourage and keep people who are professional and 17 who do hold to a certain standard which would insulate 18 them from becoming predators? 19 I know that's a very general question. I'm 20 asking about your institution in terms of your pride, 21 your level of professionalism, how you view your work. 22 What is your integrity in terms of employees and their 133 1 relationships with inmates? 2 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Upon orientation or even in 3 the interviewing process, we specifically address the 4 reasons why they are seeking employment with us. And I 5 specifically inform them they are not there to find a 6 boyfriend, a friend, a lover. They're there to provide 7 medical services. 8 And it seems that you can't be too blunt in 9 making your point and making sure that they understand 10 the undertaking and the importance of their position 11 and the professionalism that's expected. 12 MS. CHUNN: Ms. Garza-Romero, it seems to me 13 by the nature of your work that you might have people 14 that would tell you things about sexual -- unwanted 15 sexual advances, sexual assault, that kind of thing. 16 We've already heard from Ms. Kuntz that she has 17 questions on her intake form that ask about this. 18 While your people are doing routine medicals 19 and administering medical services, is there occasion 20 for them to also ask as to whether or not these people 21 have been victimized or have received, while they are 22 in the facility, unwanted sexual attention? 134 1 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Absolutely. The nurses are 2 in the units. We have MedPass twice a day. We try to 3 keep it at twice a day; sometimes it's more frequently. 4 So their access to medical personnel is very available. 5 We triage in the units. There's a lot of 6 movement on our unit on first shift; that's when we run 7 the majority of our clinics. So they have a lot of 8 access to us, not only one-on-one at the med cart or 9 during a physical or during a dental. They have the 10 Request to Staff system that they can write. And 11 sometimes they'll just say, I just need to talk to 12 somebody. 13 It's difficult to prioritize those. So the 14 initial is to -- you know, is this something about your 15 medication? We just try to find out what their 16 specific need is so that we can prioritize it. 17 MS. CHUNN: If an allegation were brought to 18 you or your staff, what would be your next step? 19 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: An incident report 20 initially. If the person came to us and said that it 21 had just occurred, we would make sure that they didn't 22 have any emergent medical needs; if they were bleeding 135 1 or anything to that effect, we would address those 2 issues. 3 Mental health would be involved, the referral 4 for mental health. If they needed to be sent offsite 5 for a rape kit or victims assistance, we would make 6 that referral and communicate with security. 7 MR. McFARLAND: What about your obligation to 8 protect the confidentiality of your patient? 9 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Confidentiality as to what? 10 MR. McFARLAND: What's your understanding of 11 what you can and can't disclose to third parties when 12 you learn secrets from a patient? 13 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: The claim of sexual 14 assault, there is no secrets. The physical trauma, 15 that I would be a little more delicate with disclosing 16 the specific trauma unless I was specifically asked by 17 an investigator. I would report that they were 18 claiming, you know, sexual assault, that there may or 19 may not have been penetration per their claim. But I 20 wouldn't -- there's no way for me to tell other than 21 what they informed me of. I wouldn't do that kind of 22 forensic exam on anyone. 136 1 MR. McFARLAND: Well, what if the individual 2 confided in you that they had engaged in consensual sex 3 with an inmate or a staffer? This was not an assault 4 in the sense of nonconsensual, but it was a consensual 5 relationship, if that can exist? What would you be 6 free to tell a third party about that? 7 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I would inform them of the 8 situation. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Inform who? 10 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I would do the incident 11 report. I would communicate that in the incident 12 report. Whether it's consensual or not actually to me 13 is not handled differently. 14 MR. McFARLAND: So you don't see any 15 inconsistency or any violation of your ethical 16 responsibilities of confidentiality with your patient 17 in the case of any kind of sexual activity that an 18 inmate has experienced? 19 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I consider it my 20 responsibility. 21 MR. McFARLAND: To? 22 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: To report it. I think it 137 1 would be -- it would conflict with my ethics to not. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Anything else we should know? 3 MS. ELLIS: I'd like to say one last thing. 4 You're contract, right? 5 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes, I am. 6 MS. ELLIS: You are. And you've only been 7 there, what, seven years in all? 8 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. 9 MS. ELLIS: You don't appear to be contract. 10 That's the best way for me to say it. You don't appear 11 to be contract. How do you explain the sense of being 12 a part of this facility that generally does not 13 characterize contract staff? 14 And I know that's a general statement, but 15 I've seen a lot of things in a lot of places, and it's 16 very rare to see contract staff who seem to have a 17 commitment to the operation of the institution and to 18 know it well. How would you explain that? Because I 19 think it's very pertinent when we are talking about 20 sexual abuse and those kinds of issues. 21 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I would attribute that to 22 the culture of the administration of the facility. 138 1 It's the same culture -- it's a culture that I want to 2 be a part of. I think it is very congruent with the 3 oath that I took as a nurse to do no harm. I think the 4 communication that we have with security is vital. I 5 don't think you can separate one from the other. 6 I never knew how much medicine was involved in 7 correctional health care until I answered an ad in the 8 newspaper seven years ago. It's more medicine than 9 I've done in any of the areas that I worked in, 10 long-term care clinic or hospital. 11 I rely on our security staff to do their job 12 and to watch my back. And my husband had some 13 reservations when I said that this is a course in my 14 career that I wanted to take. And I have two sons. 15 And I told them, the day I'm afraid to go to work, it 16 will be my last day. And I have never been afraid to 17 work at CCNO. 18 Our security team is the best. And I think 19 that that trust that I have in them, and hopefully that 20 they have in me, I guess it's obvious that that is a 21 mutual -- it goes both ways. 22 But I do think that that's the reason why 139 1 I -- the communication I have with security staff, it's 2 very difficult to separate the entities that we are 3 because we're all striving for the same thing. We all 4 want to go home safe, and we all want to give the best 5 step forward, provide the care that we are contracted 6 to do, as well. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Where do you interview the new 8 admittees when you do the medical and mental health 9 assessment? 10 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Right in intake. 11 MR. McFARLAND: And is anybody else within 12 earshot? 13 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: There are three desks 14 located in the intake area, and the nurse is just 15 across the desk from the inmate. So there's only just 16 a couple of feet, maybe, between the two of them. And 17 there's so much activity going on in the intake, 18 usually, in the intake area, unless somebody 19 specifically was trying to hear, it would be difficult 20 to hear the specifics of the conversation. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Is there anything discussed 22 about -- with the inmate that what they are going to 140 1 say is or is not confidential? Do you tell them, I'm 2 going to now take your medical and mental health 3 history; it's all confidential, unless you tell me 4 something that relates to a crime or a sexual assault? 5 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Upon the intake process, we 6 don't specify anything to that effect. But if they're 7 claiming that they've been sexually assaulted, we let 8 them know, you know, anything that you tell me, if it's 9 something that needs to go up the channel, it will. 10 MR. McFARLAND: Do you tell them that before 11 or after they mention it? 12 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Before. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Before you ask questions 5 and 14 6? 15 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Oh, no, no. That's the 16 intake process. When -- 17 MR. McFARLAND: No. I'm talking about the 18 intake process. 19 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Oh, no. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Do you say -- you don't 21 disclose that to them -- 22 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: We don't give them that 141 1 disclaimer, no. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And where are there 3 video cameras in the medical facility? 4 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: In my medical unit? 5 MR. McFARLAND: Medical unit, yes. 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I don't believe I have any 7 video cameras in my unit. I have security mirrors, and 8 we have secondary that monitors that lobby. And if 9 there's inmates unsecured on the unit, I have an 10 officer on the unit with us. 11 MR. McFARLAND: And it was your testimony that 12 if an inmate needs to be examined and their genitalia 13 would be exposed, the door is closed? 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Right. And the physician 15 would be making that -- would be doing that 16 examination, and the nurse would be with them. 17 MR. McFARLAND: All right. So there's never a 18 time when a professional staff is alone behind a closed 19 door with an inmate, even in a medical exam? 20 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: If they're going to expose 21 any part of their genitalia, there's going to be the 22 physician there that's doing the exam. Or if 142 1 there's -- we've had some male inmates claim some 2 conditions in their genital area, and the nurse would 3 have another nurse in there with her. 4 MR. McFARLAND: But can the doctor be alone 5 with the inmate? 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So there's either 8 always two nurses or a nurse and a doctor if somebody 9 is exposing themselves? 10 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Right. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And finally, with 12 respect to mentally ill inmates, where do they get 13 housed? 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: They're housed in general 15 pop or whatever their security clearance is. 16 MR. McFARLAND: No separate housing? 17 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No. We don't have a mental 18 health unit or wing or anything to that effect. We do 19 have glass houses if they are suicidal and are on a 20 code for suicide precautions; there's specific housing 21 for them. But they're out in the units. 22 MR. McFARLAND: And what's the document that 143 1 mental health professionals use when you refer an 2 inmate who's said yes to one or both of those questions 3 or is suicidal or what have you? Is there a template, 4 a standard assessment, that your mental health 5 professional uses? 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes. The nurses, if they 7 refer them, if they answer yes to these questions, they 8 refer them to the mental health nurse, which is a 9 roster that they sign them up on for the daily psych 10 book. And she uses that to get information on who 11 she's going to see and why she's seeing them. And then 12 she has a form that she completes when she does the 13 interview process or counseling with them. 14 MR. McFARLAND: And how many hours do you get 15 the mental health professional at your facility? 16 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: She's there 40 hours a 17 week. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And her name is? 19 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Tammy Schoch. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Could we get a copy of the 21 mental health assessment form that Ms. Schoch would use 22 to interview an inmate? 144 1 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: It's not a template. It 2 doesn't have -- it's not questions where she would 3 check. It's narrative. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, all right. 5 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: It would be like the 6 demographics, their ID number, their name, unit, 7 medical history, mental health history. But it doesn't 8 have specific questions like this. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Check off the box? Okay. 10 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Right. No, it's more of -- 11 MR. McFARLAND: So it doesn't have a list of 12 factors that are regularly asked about, well, have you 13 had abuse in your past? Have you ever raped anybody? 14 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Were you abused as a child? 16 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: No. 17 MR. McFARLAND: All right. So it's not going 18 to be very enlightening as to what Ms. Schoch asks? 19 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Right. Right. 20 MS. ELLIS: One last question. Information 21 regarding sexual assault for inmates, is that available 22 in English and Spanish and other languages? 145 1 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: Yes, it is. 2 MS. KUNTZ: Yes. 3 MS. ELLIS: What other languages other than 4 English and Spanish? 5 MS. KUNTZ: I believe it's just the two. 6 MS. GARZA-ROMERO: I just think it's those two 7 as well. 8 MS. ELLIS: Okay. Thank you. 9 MR. McFARLAND: All right. I want to thank 10 you both, Ms. Kuntz, Ms. Garza-Romero. 11 We will stand in recess until 1:00. We're 12 going to just have an hour for lunch because we want to 13 get everybody else in. Thank you very much. We'll 14 start promptly at 1:00. 15 (Whereupon, at 12:01 p.m., a luncheon recess 16 was taken.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 146 1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 2 (1:05 p.m.) 3 MR. McFARLAND: Panel No. 3, would you please 4 raise your right hand? 5 Whereupon, 6 CRAIG EIDEN 7 TAMMY PARKER 8 JULI STEINGASS 9 were called as witnesses and, having been 10 first duly sworn, were examined and testified as 11 follows: 12 EXAMINATION 13 MR. McFARLAND: Would you each please state 14 your full name and title for the record, and what you 15 do at CCNO. 16 COMMANDER EIDEN: My name is Craig R. Eiden. 17 I'm a shift commander at CCNO. At the time of the 18 review, I was first shift commander, and I'm currently 19 the third shift commander. I've been there for 14 20 years. 21 MR. McFARLAND: At CCNO? 22 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 147 1 MR. McFARLAND: And it's 15 years old -- or 18 2 years old. Right? 3 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 4 MR. McFARLAND: All right. Ms. Parker? 5 COMMANDER PARKER: Hi. Tammy Parker. I have 6 been at CCNO 18 years, since it's opened up, as a shift 7 commander. During 2007, I was second shift commander. 8 Now I'm first shift commander. 9 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Hi. I'm Juli Steingass. 10 I am currently a shift commander. I just was promoted 11 to that position in January last year. When this was 12 conducted, I was a third shift supervisor. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. What's the difference 14 between a supervisor and the shift commander? 15 COMMANDER STEINGASS: The difference is is the 16 shift commander is actually in charge of the entire 17 shift and doing the post assignments and making sure 18 the shift is running correctly and everybody is doing 19 their jobs. As a supervisor on a shift, you are 20 assigned certain areas that you are in charge of those 21 units and the officers and the inmates in those units. 22 MR. McFARLAND: At the time of the survey in 148 1 the middle of last year, which units were you 2 supervising? 3 COMMANDER STEINGASS: It could depend. On 4 each given night, I could be assigned to a different 5 area. 6 MR. McFARLAND: All right. Good. Ms. Parker, 7 you've been there since it opened. Why is CCNO, at 8 least according to the survey, so good at preventing 9 sexual assault? 10 COMMANDER PARKER: I believe my -- the mission 11 statement is all over the facility, and I think you had 12 seen the mission statement, in classrooms and units. 13 And our job is to protect the public, the staff, and 14 offenders. 15 And I think that corrections itself has come 16 from 18 years ago just being stepping stone to now 17 being a career. And I think staff is making it a 18 career, and they want to continue to be successful in 19 that career. 20 MR. McFARLAND: And that's different from 21 other institutions? 22 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, I can't say if 149 1 it's different with other institutions because I 2 haven't worked at any other institution. I do know, 3 you know, the camaraderie between the contract staff, 4 the volunteers, the three shift commanders, the 5 directors, the approachability of everybody, that it's 6 just unbelievable how much that communication flows up 7 and down. 8 And I think that works with line staff as 9 well, and if they see commanders and directors walking 10 out in the facility, that they see that they're 11 approachable. And every time you're out and about, 12 they'll come up and ask you a question in regards to 13 whether it's sexually motivated or just, hey, can you 14 give me administrative release? 15 You know, and I think the mission has a lot to 16 do with it because everybody knows that our goal is to 17 do that. When I worked at Defiance County Sheriff's 18 Department, I had no clue what a mission statement was. 19 When I go out and do training to other 20 facilities with interpersonal communication or suicide 21 prevention or anything in general, I ask them, those 22 individuals, do you know what your mission is, wherever 150 1 you work at, whether it's in the private industry, the 2 public industry. And, you know, they're all like, no, 3 I really don't. And I think we have that goal, and are 4 aware of that. 5 MR. McFARLAND: In your experience, who are 6 the inmates in a jail who are most at risk for becoming 7 a sexual victim? 8 COMMANDER PARKER: Can I say ditto? No, I'm 9 just teasing. Like everything else everybody says. As 10 I was listening to the previous panel, the only thing 11 that I would like to add, I think education has a lot 12 to do with that. People that don't have a high 13 education level, somebody that comes in on a DUI with, 14 you know, a bachelor's degree or a high school 15 education or even upstanding respect in the community, 16 I think has an issue of it. 17 We had talked about the solicitation. That 18 goes both male and female. If they're used to doing 19 that on the outside as their job, as their employment 20 to their livelihood and survival, they're going to do 21 the same thing in the facilities as well to get 22 commissary, to get phone calls, to get whatever their 151 1 needs may be. So I think that was something else 2 that's -- 3 MR. McFARLAND: Are you talking about 4 prostitution? 5 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. And first-time 6 offenders I think was also brought into it. The 7 environment, we don't know a lot of their life 8 environment, but I think the environment has a lot to 9 do with it. You know, if they see mom and dad doing 10 the same thing, or they say that it's okay to have, you 11 know, sex with my sister or brother, then I think they 12 feel it's okay to have any type of that relationship 13 inside the corrections facility as well. 14 MS. ELLIS: In your experience, your 18 years 15 of experience, do you find that inmates sometimes come 16 in with an expectation that there will automatically be 17 an environment where sexual assault is tolerated? 18 COMMANDER PARKER: Unfortunately, I think the 19 media has posed that, and all of the movies that you 20 have seen. You know, the old saying, soap on the rope, 21 or don't drop the soap, I think that's out in everyday 22 society because that's how the media wants the 152 1 corrections to be perceived as. 2 And first-time offenders really have that 3 issue and, you know, they're also afraid of the 4 unknown, what's going to happen to them while they're 5 inside the facility, and with the media not always 6 giving us positive feedback because very rarely do you 7 see corrections as a positive media feedback. It's 8 always the negativity of it. I think that 9 has -- doesn't help with the fact of the sexual assault 10 situation because they're all afraid of that. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Parker, what are the 12 characteristics you look for in an inmate who might be 13 at risk of being a predator? 14 COMMANDER PARKER: That might be a risk of 15 being a predator? 16 MR. McFARLAND: They're more likely than not. 17 What are the red flags in your mind? 18 COMMANDER PARKER: I think your repeat 19 offenders that's been in the prison system quite a bit. 20 Unfortunately, if they've been incarcerated five to ten 21 years, you know, that's all they ever had to see, per 22 se, is the male gender and how to -- obviously, 153 1 everybody's human. They've got to have some ways to 2 release their sexual drive. 3 And whether it's masturbating, whether 4 it's -- hopefully it's not, you know, the sexual aspect 5 of it, of assault or abuse. But I think the repeat 6 offenders that's been a long time in the prison system 7 as well. 8 Obviously, somebody that's big, but I think 9 anybody could be a predator. I mean, if you have five 10 or six people that are in a group and want to 11 intimidate an individual that's 300 pounds, then these 12 five or six people could also be the predator, too, 13 even though they may be less than what this individual 14 is as well. So I think anybody at any time could be a 15 predator if they want to drive themselves to do that. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Any other characteristics that 17 you've noted for predators? 18 COMMANDER PARKER: Usually, you know, with 19 training, larger individuals, muscular individuals, 20 individuals that like to have the power. Usually the 21 people that have two or three, four, five followers; 22 you can tell that, you know, they have a group of 154 1 people that want to follow them and what they're doing 2 or not doing. 3 And again, ditto with everybody else, what 4 they've been saying. 5 MR. McFARLAND: What about gang affiliation? 6 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, gang affiliation, 7 I think it could possibly occur with the sexual abuse 8 or assault. We have not had that. I mean, we've had 9 individuals, staff, be assaulted by gangs due to the 10 fact of wanting to rise up in their chain of their gang 11 label, per se, whether it's, you know, the first 12 captain or second captain in each gang affiliation. 13 But I don't think we've had that with the sexual abuse 14 at this time. 15 You know, we have gangs out in our facilities. 16 We also have a lot of wannabe gangers, too, 17 that -- from the four-county -- you know, we're up in 18 the Midwest where we just have corn fields and that 19 kind of stuff. I'm not saying we're naive about it, 20 but smaller communities, I don't think that it's as 21 potent as it is in Toledo or Lucas County or the bigger 22 areas that we're housing for. 155 1 MR. McFARLAND: If you heard that a sexual 2 assault occurred in the facility and you didnþt know 3 where, where are the places you'd look? 4 COMMANDER PARKER: If I didn't know where the 5 sexual assault occurred, I would try to get information 6 from the individual that took the complaints or the 7 inmate Request to Staff if it came in to see if I can 8 get any information that way. 9 Areas would probably be areas that we don't 10 have cameras. We do have cameras in our facility. 11 We're trying to get more implemented into the facility. 12 Areas like the library, where we don't have cameras 13 there and it's not in direct view of secondary control, 14 would be a place that I may look. You know, the 15 custodial closets that don't have cameras. Staff 16 bathrooms that are right on the units with individuals. 17 You know, we have a maintenance hallway 18 where -- dry storage, we do have a camera down, but 19 there's another hallway back behind the maintenance 20 area that there isn't necessary a camera where the 21 bread deliveries come in and that kind of stuff. I 22 would look basically where there's less -- limited 156 1 amount of people that flow in and out of those areas, 2 and no camera availability. 3 MS. CHUNN: If you heard there was a sexual 4 assault -- and I'm going to ask this two ways -- if you 5 heard there was a sexual assault, detainee on detainee, 6 but you didn't have any real information beyond a 7 rumor, tell me how you'd go about trying to find out 8 whether or not it was true and what was true. 9 Then answer that same question if it were 10 staff on detainee. 11 COMMANDER PARKER: Do I know what unit the 12 detainees are at or who the individuals are? 13 MS. CHUNN: How would you go about trying to 14 figure it out? 15 MR. McFARLAND: You just heard it as a rumor. 16 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 17 COMMANDER PARKER: That we just had a sexual 18 assault, offender to offender? 19 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 20 COMMANDER PARKER: I would try to get out to 21 my staff to see if they have heard anything about it 22 because obviously, the offenders are talking. And it's 157 1 interesting. You know, when officers are doing their 2 rounds, supervisors are doing their rounds, obviously 3 our ears are open and 90 percent of communication is 4 listening. 5 We may not be directly having a conversation 6 with those individuals, but as we're making rounds, our 7 ears are open and we can hear what's partially being 8 said to individuals. Also, if there's a group of 9 individuals that you walk up or approach, and you see 10 that all of a sudden those group of individuals are 11 leaving, you know something that they're talking about 12 may be a flag to say, hey, what are they talking about? 13 Because they're leaving like cockroaches if they see 14 staff coming up. 15 You know, I've tried to get out. I get out to 16 the units to let the offenders see me as well, that if 17 they have an issue or concern, by all means, I think 18 all of us are very approachable and our interpersonal 19 communications skills, that's one of the things that, 20 you know, IPCs are all about, is to be approachable. 21 So staff -- 22 MR. McFARLAND: IPCs? 158 1 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 2 MR. McFARLAND: What's that? 3 COMMANDER PARKER: Interpersonal communication 4 skills. And I happen to be an instructor for OPOTA for 5 Ohio, so I can teach it in the basic academy classes. 6 MR. McFARLAND: And OPOTA stands for? 7 COMMANDER PARKER: Ohio Police Officers 8 Training Academy and/or corrections. But now you made 9 me lose my train of thought. Where was I, Craig? Oh, 10 we do have two other -- no, I was just teasing. 11 So I think the approachability. The listening 12 aspect. You know, even in the chow hall, when people 13 are going to chow, I try to get into the chow hall at 14 least once a day on two meals on first shift that we 15 serve. 16 Even on second shift, I try to get in at 17 suppertime so if they do have information, it's pretty 18 easy to say, hey, Commander, can I come and talk to 19 you, and just kind of get out to an area where it's 20 just myself and the offender. We, you know, try to 21 make myself available so I can get information from my 22 staff and as well as the offenders. 159 1 If there is an assault and I don't know 2 anything, just the rumor that there was some sex going 3 on somewhere somehow. 4 MS. CHUNN: And how would that be different if 5 it were staff on detainee? 6 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, I don't know if 7 it would be any different because of the fact you still 8 have to get out to staff because it's a rumor 9 mill -- same way with the offenders -- to see if you 10 can get a little bit of information, a little bit of 11 direction on where to go and where to get that 12 information. 13 But the only way to get that isn't to hide 14 yourself in your office. You have to get out and about 15 and have the supervisors -- you know, hey, this is 16 what's happening or supposedly what's out there. We 17 need to keep our ears open and see if we can find 18 anything. 19 Go to our contract staff. Go to our 20 volunteers. A lot of times they see our contract and 21 volunteers as not part of us because they don't have 22 the uniforms. You know, just like with a 160 1 classification officer -- and I'm sure Mr. McFarland 2 has seen the different colors of shirts to identify 3 what level of, you know, command that we're at. 4 So the offenders sometimes see those people as 5 not part of the security aspect, and they give out 6 information that we may not give or get because of that 7 power issue and because of that security issue. But 8 yet they're known to write incident reports or go to a 9 supervisor or shift commander to give that information 10 to us so we can get some type of direction. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Ms. Parker, how could CCNO 12 improve in preventing sexual assault? 13 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, just sitting and 14 listening. You know, some of the things that you had 15 talked about -- do we come out and ask people, you 16 know, about sexual -- have you been sexually assaulted 17 today? And that could be -- because I know probably in 18 the 18 years, I don't know if I've come out and 19 directly asked anybody if they've been sexually 20 assaulted or the kitchen area but, you know, I have 21 come out and say, how are you doing today? Is 22 everything going okay? And I think maybe we just need 161 1 to come out and talk about the S word, the sex. 2 You know, growing up, that was kind of the 3 same thing as suicide. Nobody wants to talk about it. 4 Now, with training, we want to get the word out there 5 and let people be aware of what's going on and that we 6 need to put a no tolerance on it and stop it because 7 our duty is to protect them. 8 MS. ELLIS: Ms. Parker, if two of your 9 officers came upon two inmates in their cell engaging 10 in sexual behavior, what would happen? 11 COMMANDER PARKER: If two offenders came into 12 the cell, were engaging, staff would hopefully 13 verbalize, tell them to stop it, and then get backup 14 coming so we can help with that situation, and then 15 start putting other people into individual cells. 16 Because we don't want our staff to get into -- to try 17 to -- the two against one situation. We want to make 18 sure that backup is on the way so we know that their 19 safety is going to be protected as well. 20 Is that what you was looking for, or you 21 looking for incident report? I mean, obviously that 22 stuff will come. 162 1 MS. ELLIS: Just wanting to know what your 2 recourse would be in terms of that type of activity, in 3 terms of whether -- how it would be investigated. 4 Would there be discipline? Would you see it as 5 consensual sex between two inmates? Would you see it 6 as predator and victim? 7 COMMANDER PARKER: We would try to see it 8 as -- you know, get the information, do the 9 fact-finding. Usually the supervisors and commanders 10 do the fact-finding, and if they feel the investigation 11 needs to go further or the criminal activity aspect of 12 it, that is where Director Dennis will go ahead and 13 give it to our investigator, Tim Clay, to go ahead and 14 proceed with that. 15 But yes, rule violations will be given to both 16 individuals because it's prohibited activity. It's now 17 prohibited activity in our facility. 18 MS. ELLIS: Thank you. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Eiden? 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes, sir? 21 MR. McFARLAND: Is it Lieutenant Eiden? 22 COMMANDER EIDEN: Commander. 163 1 MR. McFARLAND: Commander Eiden. I'm sorry. 2 Why does CCNO have apparently such success in reducing 3 sexual assault? 4 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think there's two main 5 reasons. I think the first thing is being direct 6 supervision. Being direct supervision allows us to be 7 proactive and hopefully stop problems before they 8 start. So I think, number one, I think that's probably 9 the most important thing. 10 And I think the other thing is the fact that 11 staff cared. And staff looked at it as being a 12 profession, and they look at it as being a career, kind 13 of like Commander Parker explained. And I think that's 14 one of the main reasons. 15 MR. McFARLAND: What's been your experience in 16 identifying folks who you think are -- inmates who are 17 more likely than not to be victimized, more at risk? 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think the first-time 19 incarcerated people are probably the more at risk. The 20 smaller person. The person with low self-esteem. The 21 person that might just want to be accepted by the group 22 of other offenders. I think those would probably be 164 1 the people that are the most susceptible, the people 2 with the red flags that come up. And also, their 3 current charges, too. Depending on what those are, 4 that could play a key role. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Is sexual orientation 6 relevant? 7 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think so. I think if 8 somebody is openly gay in one of the units, the other 9 offenders might try to take advantage of that. And 10 that's when staff intervene and maybe look at it and 11 say, is this a safe person for this inmate to be, and 12 maybe we need to get with classification and make a 13 move. 14 MR. McFARLAND: You were here when Ms. Kuntz 15 was testifying about classification. Right? 16 COMMANDER EIDEN: Uh-huh. 17 MR. McFARLAND: And if I am not mistaken, 18 there's not a question about sexual orientation at 19 admission in the intake. Is that correct? 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: Correct. 21 MR. McFARLAND: So how is somebody going to 22 know that, oh, this person is "openly gay" or a closet 165 1 gay, and -- 2 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think maybe like the 3 flamboyancy of it. And granted, that is not one 4 indicator that they're definitely gay. But it's 5 definitely something where maybe we need to check into 6 it. 7 MR. McFARLAND: And how would you check into 8 it? 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: I mean, pull the person 10 aside and say, hey, this is what I'm noticing. There's 11 inmates -- because a lot of time if you take -- what 12 I've experienced, you put a very flamboyant person in a 13 unit, the other inmates are going to start talking. 14 Whether that person is gay or not, there's going to be 15 discussions about it. 16 And that's when we can pull that person aside 17 and say, hey, this is what I've been hearing in the 18 unit. I just want to talk to you and make sure you're 19 going to be safe and there's not going to be any 20 problems, and go from there. 21 MS. ELLIS: Commander, are there individuals 22 on staff who are openly gay? 166 1 COMMANDER EIDEN: We do have staff that, yes, 2 are gay. I have one on my shift. We've discussed it. 3 She knows my feelings on it, which plays no role 4 whatsoever in how I do my job and how she does her job. 5 But as far as being open about it, I would say not. 6 I guess, to clarify that, again, we do 7 have -- yes, we have people that are gay. We have 8 people that do not hide that fact that they are gay. 9 But again, that does not play any role in how we treat 10 that person and how they operate their unit and 11 how -- the respect that they get from me. 12 MS. CHUNN: Can you then, with your gay staff, 13 ever trust that they won't violate the code that you're 14 trying to set here, a therapeutic environment? 15 COMMANDER EIDEN: Well, I don't think it 16 matters what your sexual orientation is. I'm 17 heterosexual, and I'm not going to go in and hit on a 18 female inmate because it's not right. It's part of 19 your ethics. And just because somebody is gay doesn't 20 mean they're going to go in and hit on that person 21 because again, they have the same ethics. 22 MS. CHUNN: That leads me to the next 167 1 question, and that is: How do you as shift commanders, 2 all three of you, how do you reinforce that notion that 3 there is a zero tolerance for inappropriate sexual 4 conduct with detainees? 5 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think we're a continuation 6 of Director Dennis, and basically the philosophy is the 7 zero tolerance, the training that's set forth, and the 8 briefing training that we do, and answering questions 9 from staff, and just making sure that they understand 10 the policy. 11 Obviously, there's times when we're not 12 perfect at it, but we do our best to make sure that 13 everybody understands the policy and then exactly what 14 their role is within their area of control. 15 MS. CHUNN: Now, we know there's a policy 16 that's written. You've got great policies. But what 17 do you say to people on a day-to-day basis to make that 18 real? 19 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think we explain it by 20 showing it and by making sure that we're held 21 accountable and that we follow the policies. And it's 22 not just written down on paper. It's actually 168 1 followed. I mean, there's times where we'll go through 2 the policy manual which is, you know, three or four 3 inches thick and say, hey, we're not doing this. We 4 need to start. 5 And I think whenever policies are changed, we 6 hang them up so staff can read them. And when we 7 realize that we're not following something the way we 8 should, again we make the change and we put it in 9 briefing. And we're very compliant with the policies 10 that we have. 11 MR. McFARLAND: You heard the testimony 12 earlier this morning about the -- from Panel 1 about 13 how an inmate might report abuse. What are other ways, 14 in your experience, that somebody on your shift could 15 report? 16 COMMANDER EIDEN: The biggest way that I find 17 out or I'm informed of some type of whether it be 18 inappropriate, you know, looking or possibly touching, 19 it's typically done through a Request to Staff. An 20 inmate will write a Request to Staff and say, hey, 21 so-and-so -- I saw so-and-so in the bathroom looking at 22 another person. And then we go in and we -- 169 1 MR. McFARLAND: For the record, is this 2 document policy No. 4611, and it's attachment 4611-A, 3 and it says, "Offender Request to Staff," one page? Is 4 this the document that you're referring to? 5 COMMANDER EIDEN: That is correct. Yes. But 6 typically, that's how we're informed about a lot of 7 situations. And a lot if times it may not be, I've 8 been assaulted. It's been, I have heard about 9 so-and-so being assaulted, or maybe it's just rumor 10 amongst the inmates. 11 But as soon as staff hear about that and we 12 find out about that, we immediately start a 13 fact-finding, you know, get to who, what, when, where, 14 why, how. Contact Director Dennis, inform him of what 15 we've found out so far. A lot of times he'll give us 16 some suggestions on the direction that he would like us 17 to go with it. And -- 18 MR. McFARLAND: What do you mean? 19 COMMANDER EIDEN: For example, we have a 20 checklist that we have that we look at, but it doesn't 21 pertain to every situation. And the biggest thing, 22 again, is getting the inmates separated, gathering the 170 1 information, contacting Director Dennis. 2 And at that point in time, if there's 3 something -- for example, maybe he'd want us to call 4 Williams County, or he would want that person to go to 5 Williams County Hospital for a rape kit. Whatever 6 those situations would be, that's when he's going to 7 get involved. 8 Once the situation is basically under control, 9 would be evidence gathered -- 10 MR. McFARLAND: Can you show us a copy of the 11 document you were just referring to, this checklist? 12 COMMANDER EIDEN: Sure. 13 (Pause) 14 MR. McFARLAND: I'm looking at a document that 15 you just handed us, attachment No. 5002-B, entitled, 16 "Inmate-on-Inmate Sexual Assault," next line, 17 "Supervisor on the Scene." Is this, Commander Eiden, 18 this two-page document, the standard checklist that you 19 or your supervisor would use in the event of getting 20 wind of a sexual assault? 21 COMMANDER EIDEN: That's correct. 22 MR. McFARLAND: And you'd use this no matter 171 1 how you learned of it, whether it was filled out on a 2 Request to Staff or rumor or anything else? 3 COMMANDER EIDEN: Exactly. And there's always 4 steps that possibly could be skipped depending on the 5 situation, since everything is pretty much different. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Well, how much leeway do you 7 have in skipping certain steps? Which ones would 8 you -- 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: For example, let's say it 10 was in -- 11 MR. McFARLAND: Which ones would you think are 12 optional? 13 COMMANDER EIDEN: Okay. Let's say third shift 14 I get a report in a medium security unit of a possible 15 allegation of inappropriate conduct. The lockdown 16 protocol is already done. They're already in their 17 cells on third shift. So that's an example of one that 18 would be skipped. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Any others? 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: List of witnesses. If there 21 was none, we wouldn't be getting a list of witnesses. 22 I mean, it's just -- mostly, it's almost grammatical 172 1 changes more than anything else. 2 MR. McFARLAND: I'm sorry. Grammatical 3 changes? 4 COMMANDER EIDEN: Well, that probably wasn't a 5 good term to use. But the list of witnesses, no, we 6 would not -- may or may not have witnesses to it. So 7 it's not -- 8 MR. McFARLAND: I'm just trying to understand 9 what your standard practice is. Are there any other 10 aspects of this checklist, 5002-B, that would be 11 optional or you could omit, and why, other than what 12 you've already mentioned? 13 COMMANDER EIDEN: I would say none other than, 14 like, for example, on the second page, directors on 15 scene. They may or may not be on the scene. 16 MR. McFARLAND: In which case you're going to 17 check off the box that you looked for the directors. 18 Right? 19 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Then there's attachment 21 5002-A, "Sexual Assault - First Responder." You use 22 this document as well? 173 1 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Who would use this? 3 COMMANDER EIDEN: That's primarily the officer 4 or whoever the person is that finds the person or finds 5 the sexual act in progress. 6 MR. McFARLAND: And Commander Parker, was this 7 the process you were referring to when asked what you 8 would do or expect one of your officers to do? 9 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. And I'd also like to 10 add with the inmate Request to Staff, if it's a sexual 11 sensitive issue, the individual doesn't necessarily 12 have to file an inmate Request to Staff. They can go 13 directly to the grievance process on the sensitive 14 issue, which may be the sexual aspect of it. 15 MR. McFARLAND: How would an inmate go to the 16 grievance process? 17 COMMANDER PARKER: Just go out and ask the 18 officer or case manager or volunteer or anybody 19 staff-wise to get a grievance. 20 MR. McFARLAND: And that's a separate form? 21 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Do you have a copy of 174 1 the grievance form? 2 COMMANDER PARKER: I believe it's in the same 3 file with the Inmate Request to Staff, in that policy. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Well, I lifted this from one 5 of your correctional officers. So I don't have 6 any -- I asked for it. 7 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes, here it is. 8 MR. McFARLAND: And this is attachment 4611-C, 9 Offender Grievance Response? 10 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. Well, actually, 11 that's our response. Try the next one right before it. 12 I'm sorry. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Offender Grievance Report? 14 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 15 MR. McFARLAND: That's attachment 4611-B. 16 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 17 MR. McFARLAND: And what does an inmate have 18 to do to get one of these? 19 COMMANDER PARKER: Just Request to Staff. And 20 actually, unfortunately, they're not posted. I mean, 21 they are in the units, but they still have to ask staff 22 to get a grievance. And the staff may ask what they 175 1 want their grievance for because usually a grievance 2 has to be followed by an Inmate Request to Staff. But 3 if they say it's a sensitive issue, then staff just 4 goes ahead and gives them a grievance to go ahead and 5 document that. 6 MR. McFARLAND: You said normally a grievance 7 has to be followed by -- do you mean it needs to be 8 preceded by a Request to Staff? 9 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. I'm sorry. Yes. The 10 Inmate Request to Staff has to be first. 11 MR. McFARLAND: All right. So if I'm an 12 inmate with an allegation of sexual assault, I have to 13 go to my correctional officer and ask for a Request to 14 Staff form, fill it out, hand it back to the CO, and 15 have the CO sign and date it? Is that correct? 16 COMMANDER PARKER: That's one of the ways, 17 yes. 18 MR. McFARLAND: That's one way. 19 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Another way is I could pick up 21 the phone and call the tips line. Right? 22 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 176 1 MR. McFARLAND: All right. Another way would 2 be to forget about the Request to Staff and just go 3 directly to the CO and ask for a grievance report? 4 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 5 MR. McFARLAND: In which case the CO is going 6 to ask me, why do you want it? 7 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. And they can just 8 say, sensitive issue, and the officer will go ahead and 9 do it. And the reason being the officer is inquiring 10 about it is because we would try to resolve problems 11 informally as much as we can. 12 And if the officer -- you know, if it's a pair 13 of shoes or a pair of sandals that they need replaced, 14 well, hopefully we can get that done without going 15 through the paperwork of filing a grievance, and just 16 call laundry and say, hey, can you send me a size 11 17 sandal over so we can take care of this offender's 18 issue. 19 MS. CHUNN: Are the offenders coached in how 20 to say this? I mean, you use the term, "It's a 21 sensitive issue," very appropriately. But I'm 22 wondering how many offenders really would know how to 177 1 say it. 2 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. Our offender handbook 3 does say that in the offender handbook that everybody 4 is issued, on the sensitive nature. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Is that this tangerine-colored 6 little booklet? 7 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes, it is. We like to 8 call it peach. 9 MR. McFARLAND: For the record, it's revised 10 June 1, 2008, entitled, "Offender Rules of Conduct and 11 Handbook." Right? 12 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 13 MR. McFARLAND: With a peach cover. 14 COMMANDER PARKER: Thank you. 15 MR. McFARLAND: And the relevant policy on 16 staff sexual misconduct is pages 18 and 19? 17 COMMANDER STEINGASS: It's also 20 and 21 18 also, sexual assault awareness. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. So IOI, 20 inmate-on-inmate, would be 20 and 21, and 21 staff-on-inmate would be probably all four pages, 18 22 through 21. Is that right? 178 1 COMMANDER PARKER: Correct. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Thank you. 3 MS. ELLIS: Ms. Steingass, what's the most 4 challenging aspect of being a shift commander? 5 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Making everyone happy. 6 MS. ELLIS: Your staff? 7 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. Just open 8 communication between all staff, and really making all 9 staff happy. You're in charge of post assignments. 10 That's from the officers and the supervisors; you give 11 them their assignments. 12 And making yourself out there visible, too, so 13 that your staff knows that they can come to you if they 14 have an issue also, and for the inmates to see you out 15 and about and know that you're approachable; approach 16 them if nobody approaches you. 17 MS. ELLIS: Do you conduct staff evaluations? 18 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. 19 MS. ELLIS: Are those times when you can sit 20 down and perhaps have staff talk to you about some of 21 their most trying and sensitive issues regarding their 22 work? 179 1 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. And usually I try 2 to keep in touch with my staff, too, and actually ask 3 them, is there anything I need to know? And when they 4 start telling me about their unit and things, or if I 5 see them in the break room and it's just me and them, 6 they'll tell me how their night's gone. 7 I said, no, is there anything I need to know? 8 Is there anything going on that, you know, is 9 inappropriate? Is there anything you want to talk to 10 me about? Any issues that I need to be made aware of? 11 MR. McFARLAND: How often do they say anything 12 in reply to that question? 13 COMMANDER STEINGASS: How often do they 14 actually tell me anything? 15 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 16 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Like I said, I've only 17 been a shift commander for eight months, but I have 18 dealt with a couple sensitive issues. And they do 19 actually come out and say -- you know, some of them 20 will even say they have some stuff going on at home 21 with their children and different things like that. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Well, how -- 180 1 COMMANDER STEINGASS: And the more I can make 2 them feel more comfortable coming to me about that, the 3 more they're going to come to me about issues of sexual 4 misconduct. Keeping that communication line open. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. How many times has any 6 staff member in your eight months, or for that matter 7 before you were a commander -- 8 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. I did not tell 9 you. I've been there just over ten years. I don't 10 think I told -- 11 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. So in your experience at 12 CCNO, how many times has anybody told you that they 13 were aware of or suspected some kind of sexual 14 misconduct? 15 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I don't -- just one or 16 two times, actually. And it was an offender just this 17 year actually approached and stated that there was two 18 female offenders that had done inappropriate things in 19 the shower with one another. 20 MR. McFARLAND: So just that one even that you 21 can recall in ten years? Nobody's ever said, hey, 22 since you asked, I've heard a rumor that something's 181 1 going on in J-1? Anything like that? 2 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes, probably. It's 3 just I don't recall specific incidents. I mean, and it 4 will be in briefing. It could come up just in general. 5 Hey, you know, in briefing, can you put this in, you 6 know. There might be some activity going on. Make sure 7 everybody's aware and they can keep an eye on it. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. And I understand that 9 that could be said. But how many times has that ever 10 been said? 11 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I can't honestly make 12 that statement. 13 MR. McFARLAND: A lot of the witnesses this 14 morning and this afternoon have said that what makes 15 CCNO so good is the zero tolerance policy. 16 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Correct. 17 MR. McFARLAND: And do you agree with that? 18 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Well, then, I would 20 imagine that you would really remember if, at a post 21 briefing or on break or any time, somebody mentioned to 22 you in passing or in response to a question, hey, I 182 1 think somebody's got something going with inmate 2 so-and-so, or those two inmates are messing in the 3 shower. Wouldn't you remember? 4 COMMANDER STEINGASS: If it was a specific 5 incident, yes. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Well, it's so rare, 7 apparently, at CCNO, that -- 8 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Right. 9 MR. McFARLAND: -- even if it was general. 10 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I do not recall. But 11 for me to say absolutely that's been the only one, 12 under oath, that's the only one I recall, and I do not 13 ever recall any others. And it would have immediately 14 went to a fact-finding. So I would say that that's 15 been the only time. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Commander Parker? 17 COMMANDER PARKER: Can I expound a little bit? 18 I think the reason, too, that our numbers are down so 19 low is if we hear anything negative, whether it's cuss 20 words, or hands in their pants used to be a big 21 problem, not tucking their t-shirt -- I mean, we take 22 care of the little stuff. And hopefully, the little 183 1 stuff will take care of the big stuff. 2 And I think that has helped also with the 3 sexual assault situation as well because, you know, you 4 hear all the time our offenders. They want to get out 5 of our facility not because they hate it; they just 6 can't get away with anything. 7 You know, they want to go to prison because 8 they have more freedoms, where here we nitpick with, 9 don't put your feet up on the desk, and don't lean back 10 on your chair, and -- you know, just some of the little 11 things. And if you take care of that little stuff, I 12 think that helps everybody take care of the big issues 13 that are out there. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. In your 18 years, 15 Commander Parker, how many times do you recall a staff 16 member volunteering or in response to your question 17 giving you some information or snitching about some 18 alleged staff-on-inmate misconduct or inmate-on-inmate 19 sexual conduct? 20 COMMANDER PARKER: I would say receiving 21 information, and this is once the investigation 22 started, was one with the supervisor. You know, 184 1 obviously once that was initiated, the director, 2 executive director, investigator, asked if we knew of 3 anything of that situation. 4 And they approached about that, and you know, 5 that's where you get the pucker factor like, oh, my 6 gosh, was he working on my shift? Did I know anything 7 about it? Or, you know, hopefully get the sweat off 8 your brow that it didn't happen. So I would say that. 9 And the kitchen situation, you know, again 10 after the fact. It wasn't directly to me that they 11 come and asked if I was aware of anything going on in 12 the kitchen because I'm in the kitchen quite a bit. 13 So for my officers to approach any, it's not 14 necessarily the sexual abuse. In my 18 years, I have 15 not had one officer that I can say had come on the 16 officer/inmate. No inmate to inmate. You know, 17 again -- 18 MR. McFARLAND: Before we go there, for the 19 record, the incident you were first talking about is 20 the corrections supervisor who allegedly had sex with 21 several female employees eight or ten years ago. Is 22 that right? 185 1 COMMANDER PARKER: That's correct. And he did 2 get terminated, and also prison time. They prosecuted 3 him. 4 MR. McFARLAND: And then the kitchen incident 5 you were talking about, are you referring to the 6 incident last year when an inmate exposed himself in 7 the dry storage area while female inmates were getting 8 their chow? 9 COMMANDER PARKER: So this was with a kitchen 10 supervisor or somebody that was over the trustee 11 status. 12 MR. McFARLAND: You're talking about the one 13 where the cook or the food services person had a -- 14 COMMANDER PARKER: Right. 15 MR. McFARLAND: -- relationship that developed 16 after the release? 17 COMMANDER PARKER: Right. Yes. 18 MR. McFARLAND: All right. Inmate-on-inmate. 19 What instances do you recall where a staff member has 20 tipped you off to something like that? 21 COMMANDER PARKER: A staff member again making 22 tours of the facility or of the unit, you know, whether 186 1 a lot of times it's not necessarily that there's 2 assault or -- maybe more or less outspoken, you know. 3 And it's interesting because you have female 4 offenders, male offenders, doing cornrows in 5 individuals' hair or braiding people's hair, and we 6 have allowed that to happen because we don't see that 7 at that point there's any sexual motivation or 8 sexual-driven things corresponding from there. 9 But if we see that as being carried on into 10 the living area, then obviously flags are going up. 11 Even when we see them doing the cornrow thingy or the 12 braiding of the hair or cutting the hair. 13 So, I mean, there is contact between 14 offenders, but is it always sexually assaultive? You 15 know, it's not necessarily, but we'll say -- I'll throw 16 my flag up to my staff and say, you know, just kind of 17 keep an eye to make sure there's nothing else going on. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Well, what I'm really asking 19 is how many times you get it from the staff, not what 20 you observe, but how many times has the staff tipped 21 you off to something that was amiss in the way of 22 sexual conduct? 187 1 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, I would say 2 probably in the 18 years there, maybe a dozen times. 3 MR. McFARLAND: And that could range from what 4 to what in terms of severity? 5 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, maybe somebody 6 putting their hand on somebody's knee during 7 TV -- watching TV time, or somebody trying to do some 8 touching situation with the elbow or the arm. It's 9 nothing, you know, into the predatory aspect of it, 10 sexually motivated to penetration or anything in that 11 nature. 12 It's just mostly the foreplay, per se. I'm 13 not necessarily saying it's -- maybe foreplay may be a 14 bad word to use. But like I say, when we see that kind 15 of behavior, we try to nip it as quickly as possible 16 and just say it's not tolerated, even if we hear 17 individuals talking. 18 People drawing pornography, we'll take the 19 pornography drawing away from them and say, this isn't 20 tolerated, you know, here in CCNO. We just need to get 21 rid of this stuff because it's bad information and we 22 don't want the offenders to get hold of bad information 188 1 and do things that is inappropriate. 2 MS. CHUNN: Do you all share that history of 3 past incidents, particularly the one where the 4 supervisor was indicted? Do you all share that as part 5 of what staff need to know about what can happen to 6 you, or is everybody pretty much mum about it? The 7 past is the past, so let's forget it. 8 COMMANDER PARKER: Well, I wouldn't say we're 9 mum about it. But I think those that need to know 10 about it know about it, as in the management aspect, 11 the shift commanders, why this individual was 12 terminated. 13 You know, do we go out and put it in briefing? 14 No, we don't, in regards to saying this individual was 15 terminated for sexual misconduct. But maybe we will 16 put briefing our policy of sexual misconduct so we're 17 not just necessarily saying, okay, this is what 18 happened. 19 But if you can put one and one together to get 20 two, they're like, ah, that's probably what happened 21 with that individual. Because we may be doing a 22 briefing training on something else, and if we see a 189 1 situation arises as a hot issue, we'll put that into 2 our briefing training to get that word out, that 3 information out, maybe informally, per se. But I think 4 it's getting to the point that they're like, okay, now 5 we know why that individual may or may not be here. 6 So I think we get the information out. But to 7 directly come out, we may go around the bush a little 8 bit to get that information out, and still giving the 9 professionalism, the respect, to that staff member 10 because, you know, if he had been there ten or twelve 11 years, he still did ten years of good service, maybe, 12 for our facility, unfortunately. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Commander Eiden, isn't there 14 kind of a code of silence? You have this tight staff 15 work with each other every day. They're going to be 16 reluctant to turn another staffer in for a sexual 17 misconduct violation, aren't they? 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think there's a difference 19 between a code of silence and reluctance. We're all 20 going to be reluctant to turn a coworker in, but I 21 wouldn't classify that as a code of silence. And I 22 think I can honestly say at CCNO, the code of silence 190 1 is pretty minor and almost nonexistent. 2 And I've had numerous occasions where officers 3 have come into my office and said, hey, you know, 4 so-and-so -- I mean, these were what I perceived as 5 best friends. You know, he called off sick and he was 6 at a football game last night. 7 But when it comes down to it and we ask a 8 question, and I ask a question, a lot of times they may 9 beat around the bush. They don't want to tell. But 10 normally they will, and they'll be truthful and honest 11 about it. Yes, I believe the code of silence is very 12 minor where we're at. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Well, what incentive is there 14 for somebody to rat on their friends? 15 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think the big thing is 16 just doing the right thing and knowing that if my 17 coworker is doing something that has compromised 18 himself, where they may be giving some type of security 19 information out -- maybe they've been set up by an 20 inmate -- that affects everybody. And that makes me 21 less safe in my job. And in turn, we need to speak up. 22 And we train on that, and we talk about that. 191 1 And I've told my people -- everybody on my 2 shift would acknowledge that I've said, I will never 3 lie for you and I never want you to lie for me. You 4 know, that's just the way it is. If I screw up, I need 5 to be held accountable, as do you. 6 MR. McFARLAND: I should have asked this of 7 Ms. Hill. But is there any credit given at promotion 8 time for someone having been willing to disclose 9 information on staff misconduct? 10 COMMANDER EIDEN: I don't believe there is. I 11 mean, we have a subjective, you know, interview panel 12 that they're all asked the same questions. They're 13 judged based on their scores. 14 MR. McFARLAND: So that's not a question? 15 COMMANDER EIDEN: I don't believe it is, no. 16 No. 17 MS. ELLIS: Is there an underground or an 18 undertone of gossip that goes among inmates in your 19 institution? 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: I'm sure, but it's minor. I 21 mean, it seems like if something happens to somebody, 22 it ends up filtering through the facility. But when 192 1 the average stay is only 23 days, it's kind of hard to 2 get a real good information network going. 3 MS. ELLIS: Do you have inroads into that 4 underground? 5 COMMANDER EIDEN: We have plenty of inmates 6 that are more than willing to give up information. And 7 quite honestly, that's how we learn about a lot of 8 things, whether it be a planned escape attempt. We've 9 had several of those that -- where inmates have come 10 forward and said, hey, this is what's going on, and 11 it's tipped us off and probably saved, you know, people 12 from getting hurt. 13 So I think the big thing is -- and we hear a 14 lot from the inmates that come in, and I was told this 15 when I started, and I didn't know whether I'd really 16 buy into it or not, but I tried. 17 But I've had inmates tell me, when we're 18 arrested by the police department, and they have the 19 uniforms and the typical police garb on, and we come in 20 and we see you guys here with, you know, suit coats and 21 ties, it brings that wall down. And I think it makes 22 us a lot more trustworthy and they're a lot more apt to 193 1 approach us. 2 And I think because of our recidivism 3 rate -- unfortunately, we have one, but everybody 4 does -- but the inmates know that once they come to us, 5 yes, we're nitpicky and we may, in their eyes, be 6 somewhat petty. But we don't make stuff up. We tell 7 the truth, and if we screw up, we admit it and we go 8 forward. 9 MS. CHUNN: You know, we talked about your 10 average stay of 23 days. But I've been wondering, how 11 often do you turn staff over at the line level? You 12 may not be able to give me an exact number, but do you 13 lose two or three a month, or what? 14 COMMANDER EIDEN: This year on third shift I 15 have lost, I believe, one officer. No, I take that 16 back. I'm sorry, two. I lost two officers. One went 17 to a similar field down in Florida, another one to a 18 job in family services. But in no way that I can tell 19 you -- I'm pretty exact at two. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Would you or would Ms. Hill be 21 the best person to ask about turnover? Because I know 22 that in answer to our questions in that regard about 194 1 2007, you indicated that of those who were hired in '06 2 and didn't last longer than a year, 15 out of 34 left. 3 That's a 44 percent turnover rate for new COs. 4 Do you have any familiarity -- I don't want to 5 ask your opinion about that if that's news to you. We 6 can have Ms. Hill come back. 7 COMMANDER EIDEN: That's somewhat news to me. 8 The big thing is it seems like once officers get 9 through their first year, they're more apt to be there 10 a while. A lot of times they're in the same boat as 11 the inmates when they come in the door, and I was the 12 same way. What I knew about corrections is what I saw 13 on TV. 14 And a lot of times they get in there, and 15 usually if they make it through the first year, they're 16 doing pretty good, and they'll probably do well. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Do any of the rest of you have 18 any idea why -- assuming the accuracy of the turnover 19 rate, why those hired in '06, almost half of them would 20 leave before the first year? 21 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I know some of them 22 would say that it wasn't quite what they expected. 195 1 Others would say that the lack of respect sometimes 2 from the inmates and that challenge that they got 3 there. And others, sometimes it was the schedule, 4 even, with families at home and stuff, didn't quite 5 work out like they thought it might. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Do the new hires get the less 7 desirable shifts? 8 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. They go where the 9 openings are. 10 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. And how does the union 11 seniority affect your post assignments? 12 COMMANDER STEINGASS: It does not. 13 MR. McFARLAND: You honestly don't think 14 about, well, this person's been here 15 years; this 15 person's been here 15 days? 16 COMMANDER STEINGASS: No. 17 MR. McFARLAND: That's irrelevant to the post? 18 COMMANDER STEINGASS: The only post that we do 19 have is the maximum security post, they have to have a 20 year in. 21 MR. McFARLAND: But as a practical matter, 22 don't you respect some seniority in your posting? 196 1 COMMANDER STEINGASS: It does not affect where 2 people go. 3 COMMANDER EIDEN: The big thing is there are 4 certain areas where you need the experience. And 5 maximum security, somewhat in the work release, the 6 intake areas, central control, control rooms -- those 7 areas, we need to put in people that know what they're 8 doing in there. And somebody that's been there for 15 9 days wouldn't be able to do that. 10 So we obviously look at tenure and ability. 11 But as far as the remaining post assignments, we put 12 everybody in everywhere. And if we start -- if one of 13 us starts doing it the other way around, we're going to 14 have problems for the other commanders. So we don't 15 want to start that precedent. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Do you put in much overtime? 17 Does your staff put in much overtime? 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 19 MR. McFARLAND: All of you are nodding your 20 heads. 21 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 22 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes, they do put in 197 1 overtime. 2 MR. McFARLAND: And why is that? 3 COMMANDER PARKER: Well, it's interesting. 4 Now that we've been open 18 years, people are getting 5 more and more vacation time to have time off, and so 6 that's also affecting it. 7 Training affects it. Actually, tomorrow I 8 think we've got -- or next week we've got a CPR 9 training that's coming up, so we need to make sure that 10 our staff is continuing to get their 40-hour 11 requirements throughout the year, you know. 12 So we have the training aspect. People 13 calling off sick, unfortunately. FMLA, since FMLA has 14 been involved in the employment sector now. People 15 having surgeries. Mothers going off to have children, 16 having births, so that's affecting it. You know, it's 17 just a number of situations that we have to encounter 18 to make sure that we're fully staffed on an everyday 19 basis. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Are your COs competitively 21 paid, in your opinion, for your region? 22 COMMANDER EIDEN: I believe so. And I think 198 1 most of them would agree, maybe not to each other, but 2 I think they would agree that their pay is comparable 3 to their job. 4 MR. McFARLAND: You have a pretty darned good 5 health policy, too. Right? 6 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 7 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. 8 COMMANDER PARKER: And I think that's what the 9 big thing is, is the benefits. 10 MR. McFARLAND: Why would you lose half your 11 rookies, though, then? That's what I can't understand. 12 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, and I think what 13 Commander Eiden said, a lot of them really don't know 14 what to expect coming into the facility. If you're not 15 a people person, corrections is not for you. 16 And we know that there's people out there that 17 just don't want to talk to people, and think that, you 18 know what, you're a rapist, so I'm going to treat you 19 like the scum of the earth. And we don't want those 20 people in our profession. 21 And if they feel that they can't do the job, 22 I'm not saying that we don't say -- you know, try to 199 1 keep them there. But if they don't want to be there, I 2 don't think we really want them to be there, either, 3 because that's where you're going to have your troubles 4 with not following the policies and procedures. And 5 they just don't care. 6 COMMANDER EIDEN: I don't believe that that 7 statistic would be indicative of the way the facility 8 has been for the last 15 years. That seems quite high. 9 But again, that's a judgment on my part. 10 MS. CHUNN: Well, the reason I asked that 11 question was because not only do we know it has some 12 relationship to victimization, but it also seems to me 13 as shift commanders, you spend a lot of time 14 reinforcing those things about the mission and about 15 the policies, including this one, that people need to 16 know. 17 And it has to be done over and over again. 18 And if you're turning people over, it makes you -- you 19 can't get but so far down the road in getting it done. 20 It means you've got to spend an inordinate amount of 21 time doing that. 22 And so I was a little bit curious about sort 200 1 of how you handle that. How do you say to 2 people -- not formally, because they've got a job 3 description. They've got a post, you know, all of 4 that, where they're going to work. But how do you keep 5 them doing what they're supposed to be doing 6 informally? Do you know what I mean? 7 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes and no. To maybe answer 8 part of it, and you can tell me if that's what you were 9 looking for, but the key is for us to stay motivated. 10 If we get down on the fact of, man, I just spent how 11 many hours working with this person and he just quit; 12 what's the point, that's -- we need to stay away from 13 that and we need to make sure that we don't get 14 stagnant or get complacent in our job. 15 And Director Dennis won't let us even if we 16 wanted to, so that doesn't happen too often. 17 MS. CHUNN: Well, you've also answered some 18 other questions. I've heard Director Dennis' name 19 mentioned a couple of times as the person standing 20 behind this in terms of saying that it's important, 21 too. So I just kind of wondered how you were doing 22 that because I know it takes time. 201 1 COMMANDER EIDEN: You need everybody to buy 2 in. If we all do, then we'll be successful. And I 3 think we have been. 4 MR. McFARLAND: How is overtime worked? Is it 5 mandatory or voluntary? 6 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Both. 7 COMMANDER PARKER: Both. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Both? Depends on how many 9 volunteers you get? Is that right? 10 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Exactly. Yes. 11 MR. McFARLAND: How often in the last, say, 12 year has there been mandatory overtime, let's say on 13 your shift? Because you're going to know for your 14 people. How many times have you had to say, I'm sorry, 15 but you are working next Thursday morning? 16 COMMANDER PARKER: I think the -- when we was 17 doing some research and stuff, I think Director 18 Sullivan said 2,080 hours or something of that 19 magnitude. You know, we don't like to mandatory 20 individuals. Again, it kind of goes in the line that 21 if they don't want to be here, so we'll try to get the 22 volunteer people. 202 1 And even if you hear somebody making rounds 2 say, you know, I might stay over tonight, I may give 3 that person a call just to say, hey, you didn't sign up 4 but I heard maybe you wanted to stay over. Do you want 5 to stay over? And a lot of times they may say yes 6 because they don't want to get people mandatoried over. 7 So, you know, just last week I think there 8 was, you know, again, six or seven days that I didn't 9 have mandatory overtime. 10 MR. McFARLAND: You did or did not? 11 COMMANDER PARKER: Did not. I say last week. 12 Last pay period. So it goes by pay period, two-week 13 intervals. So again, it's just hit and miss. Like now 14 it's the dead time for vacations, so we probably won't 15 have any mandatory overtime for the holiday season, 16 till coming up to the holiday season. 17 And again, holiday season is coming up so 18 everybody wants mandatory -- or everybody wants the 19 overtime, so they tend to sign up for the overtime 20 because they want to get Christmas gifts for their 21 family and stuff. So -- 22 MR. McFARLAND: Well, we'll ask Mr. Sullivan 203 1 about this. But what -- let me make sure I understand. 2 2,080 hours of overtime in the last fiscal year or 3 something? Is that what you're -- or you're just -- we 4 can ask him. 5 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 6 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes, that would probably be 7 best. I don't want to -- 8 COMMANDER PARKER: That would probably be the 9 best because, yes, they're dealing -- 10 MR. McFARLAND: Because that's every day of 11 the week, 50 weeks a year, full-time equivalent. 12 COMMANDER EIDEN: You know, we may go a 13 stretch -- I may go a month and not mandatory a single 14 person. But then once we get into like the in-service 15 training where we go several weeks in a row with three 16 to four officers being off each shift, boy, then we're 17 having a lot of mandatory overtime. 18 MR. McFARLAND: And how much of this overtime 19 that we're talking about is 16 hours straight? 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: Very seldom. I bet in the 21 last I have mandatoried somebody past the 12 hours, 22 their eight hours plus four hours on my shift, I think 204 1 once or twice in the last year, where I've kept 2 somebody past the 12. But then I've always done my 3 best to try to get them out, so maybe they only have to 4 do 14. 5 MR. McFARLAND: So 12 hours is not considered 6 overtime? 7 COMMANDER EIDEN: Twelve hours is. But we 8 only do 16 hours mandatory if we absolutely cannot get 9 anybody in to fill that spot. But typically, the 12 10 hours is the most anybody will do. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Commander Steingass, where do 12 you think are the most vulnerable areas for -- I don't 13 think I've asked you -- for sexual assault to go on, 14 either inmate-on-inmate or staff-on-inmate? 15 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Just like everybody else 16 said, it's the blind areas, the offices and -- 17 MR. McFARLAND: Which offices? We've got a 18 map, so -- it doesn't show the offices, but maybe you 19 could just kind of tell us. Where are the places where 20 an inmate could be taken, rightly or wrongly, where you 21 think exposes them to sexual assault? 22 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Like they said, in 205 1 medical we have some offices that you can -- you're 2 never alone with that person, but they are less 3 visible. The lab room, where they don't have a window. 4 Maybe in the educational hallway, and -- but 5 the education rooms, only certain people have access to 6 those. And to get access to them, like they mentioned 7 earlier, we have the key access, and they would have to 8 actually use their card and swipe, so it would show 9 they got that key out to get to that area. 10 And then they would have to write that 11 incident report, which would tell why they got that. 12 And if it was not a legitimate reason, they could be 13 questioned on why they felt they needed to go there. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Especially if they weren't 15 assigned that day? 16 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Correct. 17 MR. McFARLAND: That's a big red flag. Right? 18 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. If they're in 19 areas where they're not assigned to on a continual 20 basis -- because everybody that goes into any area 21 is -- if you go into any unit, they will write that 22 you're in there. 206 1 And if you're continually in units that you're 2 not assigned, and you're specifically talking to 3 inmates that you don't have a reason to be talking to, 4 then that's going to throw up some red flags. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Now, as a matter of fact, 6 isn't it true that if an officer is not scheduled to 7 work that day and he comes in, he or she can't get the 8 ticket, the key, out of the electronic access box; his 9 or her supervisor has to come and code it in and get it 10 out for them. Is that correct, or do you know? 11 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes and no. 12 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Can you -- 13 MR. McFARLAND: If I'm not scheduled to work 14 today, can I come in and get a key to any housing unit 15 without -- by myself? 16 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Are you an officer? 17 MR. McFARLAND: I'm an officer. 18 COMMANDER STEINGASS: They don't have access 19 to the housing unit. The unit keys stay in the unit. 20 And in the key box, there's not actual individual keys 21 for that unit that the officer would sign out. The 22 only ones they get out of the box are more the movement 207 1 ones. Supervisors have the ones that access the units. 2 I'm not -- 3 MR. McFARLAND: Well, I'll ask -- 4 COMMANDER STEINGASS: And if they do, it's 5 going to show that they did. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 7 COMMANDER STEINGASS: And then they're going 8 to be questioned. And really, you can't get to the key 9 box unless central allows you to get to it. There's a 10 door there, and they're going to be stopped. They're 11 going to be questioned. 12 Why are you in your plain clothes? You're not 13 working today. Why are you getting in the key box? Or 14 they're going to call the shift commander -- we're 15 right down the hallway from central -- and be like, 16 hey, so-and-so is here. They're not scheduled. Why 17 are they getting keys out? 18 MR. McFARLAND: When somebody volunteers for 19 overtime or you're looking to fill for mandatory 20 overtime, can they say, well, all right. If I got to 21 do it, I'll do it if I can do it, do this extra time, 22 in a particular area. Like I want to be in J-1 or I 208 1 want to be in booking. 2 Can they specify? I mean, that would increase 3 the number of folks you'd get to volunteer, I would 4 imagine, and you'd be less apt to have to mandatory 5 them. So can they express their preferences for a 6 particular post? 7 COMMANDER PARKER: Sure, they can express it. 8 But we still have the last decision on where we're 9 going to utilize that individual for overtime. You 10 know, very rarely do they ask for another four hours in 11 a unit. 12 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. Nobody wants -- 13 MR. McFARLAND: If they see the handwriting on 14 the wall, you're going to have to mandatory, nobody's 15 volunteering for Saturday afternoon when the Buckeyes 16 are playing Michigan, you know. And the person says, 17 well, if I'm going to have to be here, the heck if I'm 18 going to be in this place. I want to be in J-1, or I 19 want to be, you know, a little easier duty. I want to 20 be in the lobby room or something. 21 COMMANDER PARKER: Sure. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Is that legitimate to do? 209 1 COMMANDER PARKER: Sure, they can put that 2 request in. 3 MR. McFARLAND: And you're going to probably 4 accommodate them? 5 COMMANDER PARKER: Accommodate, unless it's 6 like two or three or four times in a row that they've 7 worked overtime for me and they want that same area. I 8 mean, that's going to be a flag up, and I'm going to 9 ask the other commanders about, hey, why does, you 10 know, Parker want to continually work in J-1 or J-2? 11 So it's going to be a flag after the first or -- you 12 know, the second or third time, definitely. 13 MR. McFARLAND: By the way, when an offender 14 asks for a Request to Staff, because of the policy that 15 you want your people to try to resolve things short of 16 it having to go up into all the paperwork chain, the CO 17 is supposed to ask, why do you want it? Right? 18 COMMANDER PARKER: Exactly. 19 MR. McFARLAND: And not all of them are going 20 to say, it's a sensitive matter, especially if the CO 21 is part of the problem. Right? 22 COMMANDER PARKER: Exactly. 210 1 MR. McFARLAND: So how do you make sure that 2 this inmate has a means of communicating without asking 3 the CO who's the problem for a Request to Staff or a 4 grievance form? What are the other avenues other than 5 saying something over the phone to his family, which 6 knowing that you're eavesdropping on the phone call, 7 saying it to their lawyer, and you may be listening in 8 that visitation -- how does somebody communicate? How 9 does an inmate communicate if it's a staff predator? 10 COMMANDER PARKER: A lot of times, again, 11 approachability. They'll approach staff. It may not 12 be that officer that they're going to approach, but it 13 could be a supervisor coming in or a commander walking 14 through or the director or manager. 15 They may be going over to medical and see a 16 volunteer in the hallway, a chaplain, and say, hey, if 17 you got a minute, can I come over? Can you come over 18 and see me? Or a lot of times they'll ask the case 19 manager, hey, can I get in contact with a chaplain? 20 And, you know, the case manager -- and I have 21 even called up to the receptionist and say, hey, when a 22 chaplain comes in, can you send him out to K-2 because 211 1 Parker would like to talk to him about a sensitive 2 issue. Or, you know, I'll obviously try to say, is 3 there anything I can help you with? 4 And if they say, no, no, I'd just rather talk 5 to the chaplain, you know, they have that opportunity 6 to do that. And, you know, a lot of times I may get 7 second and third -- working on first shift, may get 8 second and third shift complaints about an officer 9 because they don't want to directly talk to them. 10 And then we communicate that, say, hey, Craig, 11 do you know this offender had an issue with so-and-so, 12 or just kind of give you a heads up, so -- to look into 13 it, if you would. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Have you thought about having 15 a duplicate or carbon copy attached to your Request to 16 Staff so that when the inmate fills it out, hands it to 17 the officer, the officer initials it, tears off the 18 carbon, and gives it to the inmate so the inmate has 19 evidence that he turned in a Request to Staff? 20 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, that's a great 21 idea. I don't think we've ever really talked about 22 that, to where they have a copy as well with them 212 1 instead of giving us the original. 2 MR. McFARLAND: You realize that it would 3 protect you and your staff? 4 COMMANDER PARKER: Sure. Sure. Great idea. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Because the offender is going 6 to say, oh, I put in kites all the time that I'm being 7 raped and they never did anything. Well, show me one. 8 COMMANDER PARKER: Sure. Great idea. 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: If I might kind of clarify 10 on something earlier that was discussed, and it was 11 about the mail. We do not read their outgoing mail. 12 They seal it up and they drop it in there. So unless 13 there's something on the front of the envelope that 14 says -- 15 MR. McFARLAND: I've been raped. 16 COMMANDER EIDEN: Exactly. And we don't read 17 it. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Sensitive information. Don't 19 even think about reading it. 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: Exactly. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 22 MS. ELLIS: Do inmates have a lot of visitors 213 1 that come in and out of the facility to see them? 2 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 3 MS. ELLIS: Do you ever receive reports from 4 visitors, family members? Complaints? 5 COMMANDER EIDEN: Usually -- typically, if I 6 have a family member call me, it's because they feel 7 like their loved one is suicidal. That's typically 8 what I hear from them. I don't think I've ever 9 received anything of a sexual nature. Maybe something 10 along the lines of some inmates may be picking on him, 11 maybe wanting to take his commissary. But I cannot 12 recall ever getting anything of any type of sexual 13 misconduct. 14 COMMANDER PARKER: And we'll throw medical in 15 there, too. Not getting their meds. We've had that, 16 too. 17 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 18 MS. ELLIS: Who typically gets more visitors, 19 males or females? 20 COMMANDER PARKER: I'm sorry, what was the 21 question? 22 MS. ELLIS: Who receives more visitors, the 214 1 males or the females? 2 COMMANDER PARKER: I would typically say males 3 just because we have a more population of males and 4 that's what you see more frequently in the visitation 5 area, in the visitation room, is the males, because 6 their ratio is a little bit higher. 7 And, you know, I have plenty of times the 8 receptionist has called and said, hey, I've got a 9 family member here that needs to talk to you in 10 grievance with Commander Eiden. A lot of it's a 11 suicidal issue about, you know, I just got a phone call 12 from, you know, my son, and I'm concerned that he might 13 do something stupid. Can you just make sure that, you 14 know, something is done? 15 So we'll write a report. We'll put, you know, 16 a precautionary code on this individual because if we 17 don't, then two days later they come back and say, I 18 called you. Why didn't you do that? 19 You know, the liability issue, and that 20 information coming from family members is just as 21 important as it coming from our staff, in our opinion. 22 And we take, you know, everything very serious because 215 1 it's obviously a liability issue and we don't want 2 anybody attempting or completing suicide on anybody's 3 shift or watch. 4 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Also, to add to that, 5 usually when we do get that, I will also make another 6 phone call down to medical, request that they get on 7 the psych list as soon as possible because we just had 8 this come in from a family member and they do seem very 9 concerned and they made some statements that had them 10 concerned. So the family member thought it was 11 important enough to call in. 12 And then maybe a lot of times I also ask 13 medical to rescreen them, do their intake screen over, 14 make sure that some of their answers haven't changed 15 and that we don't need to heighten how much we are 16 observing them; and then obviously give that 17 information to the unit that that individual's at so 18 our officers know right away to start logging that 19 individual as a suicide code. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Commander Steingass, how could 21 CCNO improve its record, which is already impressive -- 22 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I was going to say, how 216 1 can you improve on zero? 2 MR. McFARLAND: Assuming the survey is 3 accurate, how can you improve on zero? 4 COMMANDER STEINGASS: You can -- is it an 5 improvement or is it just a continued strive towards 6 our excellent -- what we do? 7 MR. McFARLAND: If you had some extra money 8 and you were the warden, where would you spend it to 9 reduce the risks that we've been talking about? 10 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Put more cameras in. 11 Continue training. And maybe change some doors out and 12 put windows in some that don't have them. Those are 13 probably the three biggest, maybe, changes that could 14 be made. 15 MR. McFARLAND: What about adding a CO in M-1? 16 COMMANDER STEINGASS: M-1? Would it be a bad 17 idea? No. When -- 18 MR. McFARLAND: Would it be a priority, in 19 your opinion? 20 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Although -- 21 MR. McFARLAND: You've got 146 beds, one 22 officer, and sometimes that officer is -- 217 1 COMMANDER EIDEN: Two officers. 2 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Two officers. There's 3 one upstairs and one downstairs. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Right. Okay. Fair enough. 5 One officer downstairs looking at 70-some-odd males, 6 and when the work release come back, he's also inside 7 the closet doing the strip search. Would you consider 8 that a very high priority for the next additional staff 9 member? 10 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes, it would be nice. 11 And then you also have to understand, too, that 12 everybody that's housed in the M building is actually 13 considered below minimum security. You have to qualify 14 to go out into the community and work to be in that 15 building. 16 So then you're also looking at the -- by their 17 risk assessment, by their charges, by their criminal 18 case history, and everything else that we've done, they 19 show that they're below minimum security. And they've 20 been approved to go out and do community service work 21 and work in the public. So you can also be safe to 22 assume that you're going to have less problems over 218 1 there. 2 MS. CHUNN: I'd like to ask that another way. 3 Let's assume for a moment that you were transferred to 4 another facility about the size of the one that you're 5 in now. The marked difference, though, is that it's 6 had a lot of issues with sexual abuse. 7 What would you do in a command situation to 8 begin to turn around? And what would you push for in 9 terms of support in order to make the difference in 10 operations of this facility? 11 COMMANDER STEINGASS: The big thing would be 12 to audit it and see where the problems are, and look at 13 their policies, change policy. Make sure the training 14 is there. Make sure they're aware of the PREA program. 15 Make sure they know that it's okay, and that they 16 should be telling, and there's zero tolerance for any 17 sexual activity of any kind inside a facility. 18 And get that communication out there. Start 19 with the top, and train the top on down to the bottom. 20 And the big thing is review policies. Make sure they 21 even have anything in -- out there right now that would 22 make anybody want to come forward, or make anybody have 219 1 pride in their job, or if nobody just cared; but to 2 reinforce that, you know, it's a law that it doesn't 3 happen, and we need to make sure that it's not. 4 Enforce people's ethics, and if there's no 5 cameras, start putting in for money for cameras. Look 6 at the budget, see where they're spending it and where 7 you should be spending it. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Commander Eiden, I think you 9 were involved in the investigation of the incident on 10 the bus on April 11, 2007. Is that right? 11 COMMANDER EIDEN: Commander Parker is going to 12 pull that report for me. I believe I played a role, 13 but it was just the initial fact-finding. What was the 14 date of that, sir? 15 MR. McFARLAND: April 11, 2007. 16 COMMANDER PARKER: Do you have a name on that? 17 MR. McFARLAND: Yes, but for the record, I 18 don't want to mention the offenders' names. How 19 many -- 20 COMMANDER PARKER: How about the officer that 21 was -- 22 MR. McFARLAND: -- incidents in 2007 did you 220 1 have on sexual touching on a bus? There's only 2 one -- at least I hope. 3 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. It was a trauma 4 transportation bus, and I remember when they got back. 5 Yes. There was two officers that was on the bus, and 6 from what I recall, there was some inappropriate 7 touching and exposing themselves. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: And I remember being 10 involved initially, and then Supervisor Snyder 11 basically took over that one with Tim Clay, from what I 12 remember. And I remember there was some error on the 13 part of staff, and discipline was given to the officer 14 for not appropriately watching the inmates like they 15 were supposed to. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Did any of the rest of you 17 have any involvement in the investigation or follow-up 18 on that incident? 19 (Witnesses shook heads negatively.) 20 MR. McFARLAND: What would you all recommend 21 doing differently to prevent that circus from happening 22 again? 221 1 COMMANDER EIDEN: That specific situation? I 2 think the big thing was, you know, taking the 3 corrective action and making sure that -- in that case, 4 it was the transportation officers. One bus driver is 5 driving the bus, and they need to concentrate on that, 6 and they can't concern themselves with what's going on 7 behind them. 8 But that other officer, that's their job. I 9 mean, they need to be watching on the bus. And had he 10 been doing that and doing that properly, this situation 11 probably would not have occurred. 12 COMMANDER PARKER: And I think another issue 13 with that, if I recall correctly -- because obviously, 14 we spoke amongst ourself with that -- I believe she was 15 able to slip off a handcuff. So the handcuff probably 16 was not appropriately placed on. So I believe that 17 individual probably received handcuffing techniques 18 again to just go over that situation. 19 I know I've done that previous with staff. If 20 there's an issue that maybe they're laxing (sic) in, 21 we'll get the policy out and I'll have a supervisor or 22 myself sit down with this individual to guarantee that 222 1 they understand how we want this procedure and process 2 taken care of. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Did the word get out what 4 happened to this officer who didn't -- that was riding 5 shotgun, so to speak, and didn't quite notice the strip 6 show going on? Did you all hear about it? 7 COMMANDER PARKER: I would say after, yes, 8 because the offenders were talking. Obviously, the guy 9 that got the hand job done, he thought he was king bee 10 of the facility because he got a sexual favor done. So 11 obviously, he went around and told other offenders. 12 Then we heard it through the offender line and -- 13 MR. McFARLAND: No. I'm talking about the 14 discipline, the word getting out about what happened to 15 the officer who was asleep at the switch. 16 COMMANDER EIDEN: No. We don't -- 17 MR. McFARLAND: Never discuss that? 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: No. We keep the discipline 19 at the management ranks. We don't pass that on. If he 20 decides to share that with other people, which I would 21 assume he probably did, then the word will get out that 22 way. But if somebody asks about a situation, I just 223 1 say it was dealt with, and then that's as far as I'm 2 going to go and respect that person's privacy. 3 MS. CHUNN: Is that just privacy, or is that 4 because he may appeal it and you may end up in court 5 with it? 6 COMMANDER EIDEN: They both should go hand in 7 hand. 8 MS. CHUNN: They will. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Do you see any utility, any 10 positive benefit, from being able to -- setting aside 11 the legal exposure, being able to communicate one way 12 or the other that hey, this person, you know, violated 13 this zero tolerance policy and then got disciplined. 14 This person violated it and they got terminated. This 15 person violated it and they got two and a half years in 16 prison. Would you see any benefit in being able to 17 send that message to the rest of the staff? 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: Oh, there's definitely a 19 benefit to it, and I'm not disappointed when I hear 20 that it gets out, when the officers are passing that on 21 themselves. But the situation where the gentleman got 22 two and a half years, I mean, that was in the 224 1 newspapers. Everybody knew about that. 2 But even in their union contract, any 3 discipline has to stay confidential between us and 4 them. So if it's going to get out, it's going to be on 5 their end. Obviously, I understand what you're saying, 6 and yes, I think there would be somewhat of a benefit 7 to saying, hey, you don't do your job correctly. If 8 you don't follow policy, this is what's going to 9 happen. But I think probably 90 percent of the time, 10 that works its way through the staff rumor mill on its 11 own. 12 MS. CHUNN: You know, though, you say this guy 13 that got the hand job was sort of moving around being 14 sort of the -- bragging about it, in so many words. Do 15 you mean that there were no other indications in his 16 behavior on the job that maybe he wasn't quite the kind 17 of -- 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: No. I think that was an 19 inmate that got the -- 20 MS. CHUNN: It was an inmate? 21 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 22 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. It was 225 1 inmate-on-inmate. 2 COMMANDER EIDEN: It was on the bus, yes. 3 MS. CHUNN: Okay. I stand corrected. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Let me ask you about a case 5 that one of you alluded to. Oh, by the way, before I 6 forget, is pornography allowed in your institution? 7 COMMANDER PARKER: No. 8 COMMANDER EIDEN: No, it's not. 9 MR. McFARLAND: And how long has that been the 10 policy? 11 COMMANDER EIDEN: That's since the place 12 opened. 13 COMMANDER PARKER: Day one. 14 MR. McFARLAND: But you've got some good 15 artists there? 16 COMMANDER PARKER: Very good. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. And what's the deal with 18 that? If they're just doing a pencil or pen-and-ink 19 drawing, any problem with that? 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. 21 COMMANDER PARKER: Ink drawing, there is, 22 because offenders shouldn't have ink. But as long as 226 1 it's not offensive to anybody, whether it's an offender 2 or whether it's the staff, and it's not pornography 3 where we feel that it is, they can have it. 4 Obviously, that's a way to alleviate some 5 stressor issues. Some people may use a drawing 6 to -- you know, to occupy their time. And as long as 7 it's trees and houses and nothing that's sexually 8 oriented -- 9 MR. McFARLAND: Well, I'm talking about a 10 sexually explicit, anatomically correct drawing. Is 11 nudity in a drawing permitted in your institution? 12 COMMANDER PARKER: No. Nudity in a drawing 13 permitted in our institution? 14 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 15 COMMANDER PARKER: No. 16 MR. McFARLAND: That can become contraband, 17 can't it? 18 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 19 MR. McFARLAND: There's an incident that 20 occurred on August 14 in the Lucas County jail, and I 21 know this is not -- it occurred in the "CCNO tank," 22 which is a large holding cell at the Lucas County jail 227 1 for folks who are headed your direction. 2 And I just -- you've got an incident report 3 because the incident was reported after the inmate was 4 in your custody. And I'm looking at a report that 5 Nurse Garza-Romero filled out. 6 So the only question I'll ask you all is: Did 7 any of you have any involvement in this matter, where 8 the person alleged that he was in general population, 9 screaming rape, and people were allegedly assaulted him 10 in his genitals, and he was worried about losing his 11 money as well? Do you recall this incident? 12 COMMANDER STEINGASS: It actually happened up 13 in Lucas County. Correct? 14 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes. I remember somewhat 15 some of that information. 16 MR. McFARLAND: What should have been done? 17 This wasn't on your watch, so to speak, but you got the 18 information. What's your understanding of how to 19 handle an allegation of sexual assault in any other 20 facility? The victim, alleged victim, is now in your 21 custody. What are you supposed to do? 22 COMMANDER EIDEN: We're going to treat it the 228 1 same way whether it happened in our facility or Lucas 2 County or wherever. We're going to treat it the exact 3 same way. A crime is a crime wherever it occurs. And 4 in this situation, I believe Investigator Clay got 5 involved in it. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Well, I can ask him. 7 I'm just asking if you have any firsthand information 8 other than reading it off of the incident report. 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: No. I don't have any other 10 information. It was another -- it was a transportation 11 officer. When they got back, they respond to -- they 12 report to their own supervisor, which reports to 13 another commander. But obviously, we were, you know, 14 somewhat privy to that information. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Looking at an incident in J-1 16 on April 3 of last year, reported by Corrections 17 Supervisor Albright, involving four inmates, were any 18 of you involved in this investigation? It mentions 19 Commander Eiden on one of the incident reports. 20 COMMANDER PARKER: Actually, I think that has 21 my name all over it. Yes, I do. Looking at the 22 reports and signing off in the follow-up of staff 229 1 allegation of sexual misconduct, four individuals were 2 claiming to have touching, inappropriately touching of 3 the breasts and buttocks by another offender, yes. 4 And basically, the supervisor went ahead and 5 did some fact-finding, separated the individuals that 6 the issues was with, and continued to fact-find and 7 write the report and send it up our chain of command to 8 see if they wanted to do any further investigation with 9 that. 10 MR. McFARLAND: And did they? 11 COMMANDER PARKER: It appears that they did 12 not because I followed up with it, with that, and 13 closed it, you know, put a request in that their -- 14 MR. McFARLAND: Is that your signature on the 15 bottom of the typewritten incident report, "Reviewed by 16 Commander"? 17 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 18 MR. McFARLAND: And when did you review it? 19 COMMANDER PARKER: The same day that it came 20 in, on 4/3. 21 MR. McFARLAND: And you didn't think there 22 was -- what was your conclusion about the merits of the 230 1 complaint? 2 COMMANDER PARKER: From the conclusion on the 3 fact-finding, do you have that as well where Director 4 Dennis accepted it with that packet dated 04/07? 5 MR. McFARLAND: Well, why don't you tell me 6 what was the conclusion about the merits of that claim. 7 COMMANDER PARKER: Just basically, it states 8 that Officer Lawrence made statements, or Offender 9 Richardson to Officer Lawrence, on the 3rd. Officer 10 Lawrence was made aware that Richardson is being 11 touched -- excuse me -- touched and threatened by 12 another offender. Lawrence, the officer, does not 13 recall an offender coming up making that complaint 14 about being touched or threatened by another offender. 15 We continued to -- evidently we got this from 16 an Inmate Request to Staff, so that's how Supervisor 17 Albright got involved with it, is I gave her the Inmate 18 Request to Staff and had her go get statements of four 19 individuals. And basically, it came -- 20 MR. McFARLAND: So the long and short of it 21 was -- 22 COMMANDER PARKER: Not founded. 231 1 MR. McFARLAND: -- you gave Keep Separates to 2 all the inmates? 3 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Anything else? Anybody 5 disciplined? 6 COMMANDER PARKER: I don't believe that there 7 was any discipline on that because it doesn't appear on 8 the incident report, and it not identified anywhere 9 that there was not any rule violations. So I would say 10 that there wasn't at that time, or no, we did not write 11 anybody up. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Do you remember getting this 13 April 4 memo from Executive Director Dennis to Dennis 14 Sullivan entitled, "Preliminary Fact-Finding," dated 15 04/03, from Supervisor Tracy Albright? About a 16 half-page memo. 17 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. I've got it. Do I 18 recall -- 19 MR. McFARLAND: And you're CC'd, as is 20 Commander Eiden. 21 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Do you remember reading this? 232 1 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Dennis indicates 3 that -- this is a complaint of sexual contact, not 4 sexual misconduct. Do you agree with that? Is that 5 your understanding? 6 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 7 MR. McFARLAND: He indicates in item 3 that he 8 didn't get a phone call, "he" being Mr. Dennis, as 9 required. Is that supposed to be standard operating 10 procedure? 11 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Was Supervisor Albright new at 13 the job at this time? 14 COMMANDER PARKER: I believe she was just 15 newly promoted, yes. But she wouldn't have made the 16 phone call. I would have made the phone call to 17 Director Dennis. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And you concurred with 19 the conclusion that Keep Separates would be all that 20 would be necessary for this? 21 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 22 MR. McFARLAND: You heard the testimony 233 1 earlier this morning about -- there are three incident 2 reports involving the same female correctional officer 3 last year, not of any allegation of impropriety on her 4 part, but she was just the -- she was involved in 5 either being the reporting officer and/or the victim, 6 if you will, of exposure or masturbation. 7 Which of you supervised her work on any of 8 those three incidents? 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: I believe that was the 10 commander that has since resigned. I have her on my 11 shift now, and I'd be more than happy to answer any 12 questions relating to her. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Which commander resigned? 14 COMMANDER EIDEN: Saul, S-a-u-l. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And what were the -- do 16 you have any idea whether this was a requested 17 resignation, or that they just retired, or -- 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: Of Commander Saul? 19 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: I just think for family 21 reasons, he decided to resign. There was no discipline 22 issues at all. 234 1 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And do any of you have 2 concerns about one officer that continues, in a fairly 3 short amount of time in the same year, be on the 4 receiving end of getting flashed and masturbated and 5 having one inmate put his genitals out the tray slot at 6 her? And this is over the course of -- three times 7 between July 11 and August 17. So in five weeks, she's 8 got three incidents. 9 Is she just really unlucky, or is she 10 hypersensitive, or do you have any other -- does that 11 raise any concerns for you? 12 COMMANDER EIDEN: No, it doesn't raise a 13 concern, other than I feel for the most part that she 14 might have just been a target by some of the inmate 15 population. She was new. She's young. She's an 16 attractive officer. And I think if the incidents were 17 happening and she was not writing rule violations, 18 that's where my issue would fall into play. 19 Since that time, and I believe if we would 20 check, and I don't have higher dates with me, but I 21 believe that was very soon to when she started working 22 at CCNO when those occurred. And inmates, a lot of 235 1 times they realize when somebody's new. They realize 2 when somebody's young. And they're going to do their 3 best to try to take advantage of them and test the 4 waters, so to say. 5 Since then, I've been her supervisor or 6 commander since January, and I don't believe there's 7 been a single incident of that occurring. She also 8 works in our maximum security area. She works in our 9 intake area. She's probably, you know, one of the best 10 officers on the shift. 11 But again, I think had she not been doing the 12 rule violations when these acts occurred, that's where 13 the red flag would go up. 14 MR. McFARLAND: I notice that two of the three 15 incidents occurred in the -- one in ADSEG and one in 16 disciplinary, EA and ED. Those folks are already -- or 17 at least those in ED are already under discipline, and 18 they may be more of your bad eggs, so to speak, 19 already. Is that right? 20 COMMANDER EIDEN: Correct. Very much so. 21 MR. McFARLAND: And they may have not a whole 22 lot more that can be done to them. 236 1 COMMANDER EIDEN: Exactly. 2 MR. McFARLAND: They're in the 3 worst -- they're already in the hole, and they may not 4 mind getting a charge out of flashing themselves to 5 this officer. Is that -- 6 COMMANDER EIDEN: That -- very much so. 7 COMMANDER PARKER: And I'd like to add to 8 that, too. I think she probably just recently got 9 placed back into E unit with her one-year probation 10 being up, and now she was able to go ahead and get 11 placed in that post assignment. 12 So it possibly could have been the first month 13 that she had been in that area, and they was just 14 testing the waters with her to see if she was going to 15 write them up or -- 16 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 17 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I think they try to do 18 it to the female officers back in maximum security as 19 an intimidation thing, too, see if they can intimidate 20 them, embarrass them, make you walk away. And she -- I 21 mean, she showed that it wasn't going to work. She's 22 still going to do her job, and they're going to get the 237 1 write-up. 2 COMMANDER EIDEN: During the pre-service 3 training, myself and another gentleman at the jail, we 4 went to NIC to -- we took a two-week class on operating 5 a direct supervision facility. And during the course 6 of that, it was discussed about write-ups, 7 masturbation, a lot of different issues. 8 And when we train that to the new officers, 9 there's one scenario where we role play, essentially, 10 where we put them in situations where they're going to 11 probably encounter and see how they're going to react 12 so they know when they get into those situations, 13 what's expected of them, what they need to do. 14 And one thing that we discuss quite a bit 15 about is the masturbation and how you're going to 16 handle it, and why the inmates do it a lot of times, 17 and how you need to respond to that appropriately by 18 doing the rule violation. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Then there was the incident on 20 May 3 of last year involving a male inmate who exposed 21 himself and masturbated in the kitchen -- I believe it 22 was in the dry storage area -- while the J-1 females 238 1 were getting their chow. Any of you involved in 2 overseeing or otherwise being involved in that matter? 3 Reported by Officer Pam Armes, a correctional 4 supervisor. 5 COMMANDER EIDEN: I believe I 6 instructed -- she came to me, from what I remember, and 7 we discussed that. And we initiated a fact-finding on 8 that situation. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Who can get into the dry 10 storage area in the kitchen? 11 COMMANDER EIDEN: The kitchen supervisor can, 12 obviously, to get out supplies that they need. And 13 obviously, this was one of them times where it 14 was -- she had an inmate getting stuff out, whether it 15 be for that meal or the next meal. And he was exposing 16 himself. 17 MR. McFARLAND: And isn't it true that there 18 is typically one inmate who's supposed to -- actually 19 is authorized to be in the dry storage room, can be 20 alone, because he is the "pull guy" -- 21 COMMANDER EIDEN: Correct. 22 MR. McFARLAND: -- who pulls the supplies that 239 1 are needed. Is that right? 2 COMMANDER EIDEN: That is correct. 3 MR. McFARLAND: And was this individual -- 4 COMMANDER EIDEN: I don't know if he was or 5 not. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Was the individual who was 7 involved in this incident the "pull guy," so to speak, 8 in the dry storage room? 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: I believe he was. I believe 10 he was, from my recall, that yes, he was the person 11 that was -- 12 MR. McFARLAND: And what happened to him in 13 terms of discipline? 14 COMMANDER EIDEN: He was written up for 15 engaging in sexual acts. The supervisor did a photo 16 lineup at intake and took him to several of the inmates 17 that were involved and had them pick out his picture 18 from the group of the lineup. And he was subsequently 19 written up for a 300 charge, which is a major rule 20 violation. 21 MR. McFARLAND: And he got 30 days lockdown. 22 Right? 240 1 COMMANDER EIDEN: Without seeing the outcome, 2 I believe so. 3 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I got everything but the 4 outcome. 5 COMMANDER EIDEN: We have everything here but 6 the outcome. 7 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I'm looking. I got that 8 here. 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: No, I take that back. 10 Sorry. Yes, he was given 30 days. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. What else, if anything, 12 was done to prevent this from recurring? Are there 13 still pull guys in the dry storage room? 14 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes, there is. 15 MR. McFARLAND: So was anything done? Got a 16 camera in the dry storage room now? 17 COMMANDER EIDEN: No, we don't. That was one 18 of the areas that we've talked about, you know, as 19 money becomes more available, to put a camera up in 20 there because no, we don't have one, and that would be 21 one of the top choices where we would put a camera. 22 COMMANDER PARKER: But we do have -- excuse 241 1 me. To iterate that fact, we do have a corrections 2 officer in there now working as a security officer. 3 And I believe it's been after this situation. 4 MR. McFARLAND: I see. 5 COMMANDER PARKER: So she's in there at least 6 eight hours throughout the day as well to help monitor 7 that situation. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Now, is she assigned 9 to -- when the females are coming through to get chow, 10 is she assigned to be at the dry storage area, which is 11 right in front of their view? 12 COMMANDER PARKER: Usually, at the dry storage 13 area, usually he's out of the dry storage and should be 14 down at the other end with the other male offenders. 15 And when I'm in there working first shift, we'll pull 16 him clear down to the other end so they don't have any 17 sight with that individual. 18 MR. McFARLAND: There are a couple of 19 incidents involving a correctional officer, a 20 recreation specialist, and a couple of offenders. And 21 without using that individual's name, any of you 22 familiar with a recreation specialist last fall who was 242 1 the subject of some allegations about sexual 2 impropriety? 3 COMMANDER EIDEN: I'm aware of it, but I don't 4 have a lot of knowledge about it. 5 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. You all have the 6 documents? For example, there's a memo from Toby 7 Bostater, manager of offender services, to Mr. Dennis 8 dated March 13 that's regarding this particular 9 officer's -- a follow-up report on one of the 10 incidents. 11 Do you have this, and does it refresh your 12 recollection about the allegations of one of your staff 13 members being inappropriately telephoning one of the 14 inmates? 15 COMMANDER EIDEN: That was with the telephone 16 number? 17 COMMANDER PARKER: This is the telephone 18 number? 19 COMMANDER EIDEN: Telephone numbers in the 20 bar? Was that the one? 21 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 22 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I only know -- 243 1 COMMANDER EIDEN: I don't have it, but -- 2 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. If all you know is 3 what's in the document, then the document will speak 4 for itself. 5 COMMANDER EIDEN: That's correct. 6 MR. McFARLAND: But if it refreshes your 7 recollection, if you know something firsthand as the 8 shift commanders -- do any of you know anything more 9 than you're going to read here? 10 COMMANDER EIDEN: No, I don't. 11 COMMANDER PARKER: No. 12 COMMANDER STEINGASS: No. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Well, who was the shift 14 commander that would oversee this gentleman's work? 15 COMMANDER EIDEN: He doesn't report to a shift 16 commander. He reports to Toby Bostater, the manager. 17 MR. McFARLAND: I see. 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: So that would have got 19 funneled through him, through his director, to Director 20 Dennis. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Well, we've heard a lot about 22 a zero tolerance policy. What do you think should have 244 1 been done with -- in this particular instance, the one 2 about the exchanging phone numbers with the offender in 3 the bar? 4 COMMANDER EIDEN: I don't think much could 5 have been done. I mean, we can't restrict them from 6 where they go after hours. We can talk to them about 7 it and make sure they understand, you know, some of the 8 possible consequences of where they're at and who 9 they're going to run into. 10 But under this circumstance, it appears to me 11 that everything was done to try to notify or try to get 12 hold of that ex-offender to discuss with them the 13 relationship or lack of relationship with -- 14 MR. McFARLAND: But didn't this exchange of 15 the phone numbers occur within the six-month prohibited 16 period after the release when they're not supposed to 17 fraternize with inmates? 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: I believe that was disputed. 19 He's saying he did not give them the number. 20 COMMANDER PARKER: Right. 21 COMMANDER EIDEN: Or she is saying that he 22 did. 245 1 MR. McFARLAND: So you do recall something 2 about this? 3 COMMANDER EIDEN: Just from what was in that 4 report. 5 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Then the other incident 7 involving the same gentleman talks about -- are any of 8 you aware of a second incident involving the same 9 officer? 10 COMMANDER PARKER: Is that the one 11 where -- and again, it's only what I read in there. Is 12 it the one where he supposedly gave his number to her 13 before she was released in recreation? 14 MR. McFARLAND: No. No. Yes, yes, yes. That 15 is the case, yes. Different -- 16 COMMANDER PARKER: If I recall on that one, 17 the contact was made with the ex-inmate, and she did 18 state that they knew each other prior to the 19 incarceration, but that no phone number was exchanged 20 while she was there. 21 And if staff knows an offender that's coming 22 in or through their off duty sees an offender that they 246 1 know prior to this incarceration, they are to notify us 2 via incident report to let us know that, as shift 3 commanders, that they do know one another, whether it's 4 a classmate, whether it's a relative or a cousin, so 5 we're made well aware of that. 6 MR. McFARLAND: And how often does that happen 7 in your facility that an inmate is known by one of your 8 staff? 9 COMMANDER EIDEN: All the time. 10 COMMANDER PARKER: All the time. 11 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Quite frequently. 12 COMMANDER PARKER: We all live in the same 13 communities together. 14 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Go to the same schools. 15 COMMANDER PARKER: Before and after. 16 MR. McFARLAND: So how often do you recall 17 officers turn in some kind of a notice, as required? 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: Quite frequently. Even if 19 the person -- I mean, if they write a report and then 20 two weeks later he comes back, they're required to 21 write another report. And a lot of times, the officers 22 will be -- you know, they'll explain that they have no 247 1 issue supervising that person. 2 However, 95 percent of the time, if there's 3 any type of knowledge at all, it protects them or 4 protects us. We have enough other places in the 5 facility that they can work that I make sure they don't 6 supervise that person. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Just two other incidents, this 8 in one of the incident reports dated September 13 last 9 year. An offender is alleged to have said that, 10 "Female staff encourage the lesbian offenders in J-100 11 and don't do anything when the lesbians in the unit 12 touch each other." Have you ever heard rumors like 13 that? 14 COMMANDER EIDEN: I haven't. 15 COMMANDER STEINGASS: That we do not care and 16 that we do not do anything about it? 17 MR. McFARLAND: Right. That you actually 18 encourage lesbian activity in J-1. 19 COMMANDER STEINGASS: No. No. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Are there beds in J-1 that are 21 referred to as the "dyke watch"? 22 COMMANDER EIDEN: Are there beds in there? If 248 1 it is, I don't know about it. 2 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, this is 3 actually -- just briefing with Director Dennis, that's 4 the first time I've ever heard that because I think he 5 heard that from you, as a matter of fact. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. And I heard it from an 7 offender. Yes. 8 COMMANDER PARKER: No. I've never heard that 9 as well. 10 COMMANDER STEINGASS: And maybe that's just 11 what they perceive because if we do hear through a 12 rumor that a certain offender has that tendency or is 13 gay and pushing somebody, they may consider when we 14 move somebody from the back to the front -- maybe 15 that's what their own terminology of that is. 16 But to us, it's just to closer supervise that 17 person to make sure they aren't doing what might be 18 said that they might be trying to do. 19 COMMANDER PARKER: And let me state, too, that 20 isn't the only reason we move individuals up front. If 21 they're on a PH code, suicide code, we'll move that 22 person up front so it's closer, obviously, for the 249 1 officer to observe that individual. So the "dyke 2 watch" is not the only reason that, you know, 3 reclassification of bed situations. 4 Now, whether that's the inmate rumor mill, 5 unfortunately, that may be what it was labeled. But 6 that isn't the only reason that we move individuals up 7 to the front area. 8 MR. McFARLAND: And we're talking about a 9 dormitory setting with, what, 60 cots? 10 COMMANDER PARKER: Sixty beds. Yes. 11 MR. McFARLAND: So when we're saying moving 12 forward, you're talking moving them to the first bed at 13 the -- 14 COMMANDER PARKER: First few. 15 MR. McFARLAND: -- closest to the CO in the 16 northeast corner of J-1, or whatever corner that is? 17 COMMANDER PARKER: Correct. 18 MR. McFARLAND: All right. Within the line of 19 sight to the showers? 20 COMMANDER PARKER: Within the line of sight to 21 the showers, the officer is? 22 MR. McFARLAND: The officer is, yes. 250 1 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. Yes. I thought you 2 meant the bed. 3 MR. McFARLAND: No, no, no, no. 4 COMMANDER EIDEN: Defeat the purpose. 5 MR. McFARLAND: The last incident I wanted to 6 ask you about, is it fairly common for your staff to 7 write up incidents where a sexual epithet or label or 8 slang is used against another inmate or another -- or a 9 correctional officer? 10 In other words, an inmate makes a request of a 11 correctional officer: You know, hey, I want to -- can 12 I do so-and-so? And the person says no, the officer 13 says no, and then the response, out of frustration or 14 anger, is some kind of a sexualized epithet -- you 15 know, you bitch, faggot, you know, or you can shove 16 something up wherever? 17 Is that a violation of the sexual assault 18 policy in your institution? Is that something you'd 19 expect your folks to write up? 20 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. 21 COMMANDER EIDEN: Yes, we push that zero 22 tolerance, and that's part of it. I mean, the words 251 1 that's used, maybe it's not going to progress into 2 anything. Maybe it will. And we're going to treat it 3 as a sexual connotation. As Commander Parker said 4 earlier, by maybe that appears to be nitpicking, but by 5 nitpicking those little things, it helps to prevent the 6 big things from overflowing. 7 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Any -- 8 MR. McFARLAND: There -- go ahead. 9 COMMANDER STEINGASS: I'm sorry. Any comment 10 that's made. I mean, the rule violation is the 309A, 11 which doesn't just say -- I mean, it flat-out says 12 sexual proposals, threats, comments, or gestures. So 13 our staff -- a comment, a gesture, anything like 14 that -- is trained to go ahead and write them up. And 15 that constitutes that zero tolerance. 16 MR. McFARLAND: And, now, does this go along 17 with what Commander Parker was talking about earlier, 18 that you stop at -- you enforce the policy on the 19 little things and they'll take care of the big things? 20 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Correct. And the no 21 pornographic and all that stuff goes with that, too. 22 MR. McFARLAND: I lied. There were a couple 252 1 others that I wanted to ask you about. 2 An individual inmate who was alleged to have 3 harassed an offender, another offender, with names like 4 fag, as well as other names against his sexuality, but 5 there wasn't any touching. But there was just his 6 sexuality that was being made fun of. 7 It indicates that the alleged perpetrator was 8 reclassed to L-100. That just means they were moved to 9 the L-1 -- 10 COMMANDER PARKER: Dormitory. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Dormitory? Is that right? 12 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. And basically 13 separated from each other, and I'm sure Keep Separates 14 were also instilled upon that so they couldn't go to 15 any type of programming together or anything, medical 16 or -- 17 MR. McFARLAND: This individual evidently 18 didn't have any hesitation, the victim, of identifying 19 himself as his sexuality being gay. Do you have openly 20 gay inmates in your institution? 21 COMMANDER PARKER: Definitely. 22 MR. McFARLAND: And are they going to be 253 1 labeled or categorized or classified in any way to 2 alert your COs that they may be a potential victim? 3 Because if you know they are openly gay, everybody in 4 the facility knows they are openly gay, and may be a 5 higher risk for sexual assault. Right? 6 COMMANDER PARKER: Correct. 7 MR. McFARLAND: So how do you communicate to 8 the COs that -- who are doing the direct supervision to 9 keep your eye on Offender So-and-so; he's known 10 everywhere as a homosexual? 11 COMMANDER PARKER: I don't know if we have to 12 communicate it to them because that individual is 13 openly letting them know, staff and other offenders, 14 about their sexuality. And think with all the training 15 that staff has received and the communication amongst 16 each other, that they're aware that that's a flag. I 17 need to just be aware of this individual. 18 Classification again will get with them and 19 say, hey, let's not put this individual in the back of 20 the unit. Let's make him somewhat accessible so staff 21 can kind of keep an eye on this individual as well. 22 So, you know, security and classification work 254 1 hand-in-hand. If we feel that there is potential for 2 that type of activity, obviously we want to keep that 3 potentiality down to a minimum. And by doing that, 4 just putting them up to where the officers can observe 5 them more constantly than back in a corner at bed 60 6 compared to bed 4 or 5 or 10 or 15. 7 So, I mean, we don't have -- our housing 8 roster does have a sign of codes for the SX codes and 9 the mental and the ED codes, emotionally disturbed 10 codes. But we don't necessarily have a code for 11 somebody that is a homosexual, openly homosexual. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Do you think you ought to 13 include an SX code for openly gay inmates, given what 14 you've just said? 15 COMMANDER PARKER: You know, I think we 16 probably would bring that up when we get back to Ohio 17 for discussion with classification and all that was 18 involved here and see what everybody -- what their 19 thoughts are with that. 20 MR. McFARLAND: That was very diplomatic. 21 COMMANDER PARKER: Yes. Was that politically 22 correct? 255 1 MR. McFARLAND: Do you have an opinion as to 2 whether -- do you have an opinion, Commander Parker, 3 based on your 18 years at the institution, whether that 4 would be a good idea or not? 5 COMMANDER PARKER: Sure. That would be a good 6 idea. 7 COMMANDER STEINGASS: If they're open, you 8 already pretty much know it. I mean, if they are 9 openly out there for the offenders to see it, then our 10 staff sees it, too. 11 COMMANDER EIDEN: I think it's that 12 flamboyancy, not just being openly gay, saying, I'm 13 gay. It's the being, you know, flamboyant about it. 14 And then we try to look at it just because somebody's 15 gay, they're entitled to the same rights and privileges 16 as everybody else. 17 Now, it's also our job to make sure they're 18 safe and everybody else is safe. So we have to kind of 19 do a balance test there and figure out whether or not 20 we can make sure that this inmate stays safe. And if 21 we don't think we can, then we're going to move them to 22 a tighter security part of the facility to make sure 256 1 that nothing happens to them. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Is it a violation of your 3 sexual assault policy for an offender to send love 4 notes to another offender? 5 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. 6 MR. McFARLAND: That is? 7 COMMANDER STEINGASS: Yes. 8 COMMANDER EIDEN: They're not allowed to do 9 that. There's no communication that goes 10 between -- the only exceptions would be if you had 11 maybe a married couple. Then they'd have to get 12 approval through the director of security. And that's 13 the only time we allow any type of correspond to go 14 between inmates. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Well, I want to thank each of 16 you very much. We're going to take a ten-minute break. 17 Thank you very much. 18 COMMANDER EIDEN: Thank you. 19 (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 20 MR. McFARLAND: Gentlemen, would you please 21 raise your right hand? 22 // 257 1 Whereupon, 2 JIM DENNIS 3 DENNIS SULLIVAN 4 were called as witnesses and, having been 5 first duly sworn, were examined and testified as 6 follows: 7 EXAMINATION 8 MR. McFARLAND: Thank you. Would you please 9 state your full name, title, and function at the CCNO? 10 DIRECTOR DENNIS: James Dennis, executive 11 director of the Corrections Center of Northwest Ohio. 12 As the executive director, I'm the CEO. I report to 18 13 board members. Statutorily, the Corrections Commission 14 has set up that the common pleas judge or the felony 15 court judge in each county sits on the board, the 16 sheriff, and the presiding county commissioner. For 17 the City of Toledo, it's the mayor, the chief of 18 police, and the presiding municipal judge. 19 I'm responsible for all operations. In a 20 general sense, many of the mandates of the center, of 21 course, are statutory based on minimum jail standards. 22 And they're lined out in an operating agreement that 258 1 the members put together when CCNO was formed. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Great. Mr. Sullivan? 3 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Hi. Dennis Sullivan. I'm 4 director of security. I'm responsible for the security 5 and operations of the corrections center. I report to 6 Executive Director Dennis. I've been employed for 18 7 years, and I've held this position approximately 12 8 years. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Great. And Mr. Dennis, you've 10 been at CCNO for 15. Correct? 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. It was 15 years in 12 April. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And all those years as 14 its executive director. Is that correct? 15 DIRECTOR DENNIS: That's correct. 16 MR. McFARLAND: And you have, what, a dozen 17 years in corrections work in Oklahoma as well? 18 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. A little over 12 19 years of corrections experience in Oklahoma, with the 20 last position I held was warden of the William S. Key 21 Correctional Center. And prior to that, when I first 22 got out of college, I worked for the Ohio Department of 259 1 Mental Health. 2 MR. McFARLAND: I'm just going to disclose on 3 the record that one of our -- the people helping us on 4 the panel is an expert in this field named Andie Moss. 5 And her consultancy, called the Moss Group, is here in 6 Washington, D.C. And I understand, Mr. Dennis, that 7 you have served as a consultant to the Moss Group in 8 the past. Is that correct? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: That's correct. 10 MR. McFARLAND: And I would also want to just 11 say for the record that our panel member, Ms. Chunn, is 12 also on the advisory board or as a consultant to the 13 Moss Group. 14 MS. CHUNN: For the juvenile. 15 MR. McFARLAND: For juvenile facilities, not 16 jails or prisons but juvenile facilities. 17 Mr. Dennis, I've got your written opening 18 statement. You're welcome to read it or just make some 19 shorter verbal remarks, whichever your pleasure is. 20 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Thank you, Mr. McFarland. 21 I'd like to do a combination of both. I want to thank 22 the panel for this opportunity. I want to thank 260 1 Mr. McFarland for coming to northwest Ohio and CCNO. I 2 believe that that truly personalizes this process. 3 While CCNO is a jail, it's certainly not a 4 prison, and they are different. And I think it's 5 important that you experienced CCNO and how it's 6 slightly different than prisons. 7 CCNO houses both male and female offenders. 8 Jails house both pretrial and sentenced prisoners. 9 However, as this applies to PREA and protecting people, 10 really it's a very common mission. 11 CCNO's mission statement is to protect the 12 public, employees, and offenders while operating a 13 cost-effective detention center for Defiance, Fulton, 14 Henry, Lucas, and Williams Counties, and the City of 15 Toledo. Preventing sexual abuse with a zero tolerance 16 policy fits our mission. 17 I am the PREA coordinator because it is that 18 important to me personally. I'm also the PREA contact 19 for the State of Ohio on the American University 20 website. 21 We believe that training both staff and 22 offenders creates a more informed environment. This 261 1 protects the public from civil suits that are a drain 2 on tax dollars. Staff training ensures understanding 3 of a consistently enforced policy. 4 Offenders understand staff limits and their 5 own limits. They know that we take sexual abuse 6 allegation serious; therefore, they will come forward 7 and file complaints and seek protection. 8 Staff contact -- excuse me. Staff and 9 contract staff and volunteers are all trained in the 10 sexual abuse policies, and understand their role in 11 fulfilling the mission. They are trained by me. I 12 read the sexual battery law of Ohio to them, and then 13 say, you have been told this by me. Don't try to deny 14 it later. It sets the tone and sets the standard. 15 In 2000, CCNO had its own anecdotal sexual 16 misconduct incident that captured headlines. A 17 supervisor was investigated, terminated, prosecuted 18 successfully, and spent two and a half years in prison. 19 A victim sued myself and the organization civilly; this 20 gut-wrenching experience led to many changes at CCNO. 21 In 2002, myself, Director Sullivan, and Human 22 Resource Manager Hill attended the NIC staff sexual 262 1 misconduct training at American University conducted by 2 Brenda Smith, Susan McCampbell, A.T. Wall, Susan Poole, 3 and others. The NIC American University training in 4 2002 resulted in an action plan to assess the 5 organization and implement changes. 6 At the encouragement of the Rhode Island 7 investigator, Aaron Aldrich, Director Sullivan reopened 8 every investigation concerning sexual misconduct and 9 the undue familiarity, and reassessed what we had done 10 right and wrong, identified needed policy changes, 11 physical plant changes, and determined how to use these 12 lessons learned and training in hopes of preventing 13 further recurrences. 14 These lessons learned and materials have been 15 a part of our own training since 2002. I have also 16 used them as examples for other agencies and states to 17 develop their own resources. 18 The NIC training finished with an action plan. 19 This is when CCNO's evolution on PREA really started, 20 was in 2002. If you look at this first slide, this is 21 what I did to inform the organization that we were 22 going to make this a priority at the Corrections Center 263 1 of Northwest Ohio. 2 Code REaD article is our facility employee 3 newspaper. It comes out once a month. And that's how 4 I started prepping the organization that this was going 5 to be a priority and that we were going to change the 6 way that we operate. 7 You see the settlement conference with ABLE. 8 That actually is concerning the civil lawsuit that I 9 talk about. And there you see the completion date. 10 Develop a separate policy: Those are the 11 things at the time that were important in putting 12 together a policy. We wanted to go back and take a 13 look at all the policies that would be affected by this 14 new direction in our organization. Those are the dates 15 that those policies were updated and changed. 16 Oops, sorry about that. Went too fast. Could 17 you go back on that? Thank you. 18 In-service training: We wanted to devise a 19 curriculum. We wanted to develop audio tapes and 20 handouts. One of the things that we did do in some of 21 our investigations, once the teaching was in place, is 22 of course review inmate telephone calls. We use that 264 1 in training. 2 We did separate presentations during 3 in-service, training all staff and contract staff from 4 pre-service. So we went into the organization. We 5 developed something for new employees walking in the 6 door. And then we developed something for in-place 7 employees. 8 One of the questions that you asked was, was 9 any of this investigation ever shared about Corbett? 10 Yes. Several investigations, about five or six 11 different investigations, have been shared in this 12 information, and that was provided to you. 13 We have surveillance. We had phone calls 14 specifically that were shared and discussed. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Discussed among whom? 16 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Discussed among staff. We 17 aired it with staff. We wanted this to be a deterrent. 18 We wanted them to know that we did these types of 19 investigations. We talked about the investigative 20 process, and that they needed to understand that we 21 were going to pursue these investigations. 22 MR. McFARLAND: And was that shared with the 265 1 line officers? 2 DIRECTOR DENNIS: That was shared with all 3 staff -- line staff, volunteers, and contract staff. I 4 felt it was imperative that we share that information 5 consistently across the board. 6 We developed the presentation. At the time, 7 we also had some funding that was available to us for 8 an inmate orientation video. And we did a specific 9 scenario, or several specific scenarios, on staff 10 sexual misconduct, and we included those in there along 11 with a notation about the hotline. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Was any of this done with 13 federal money? 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Not a cent of it was done 15 with federal money. That was all done from CCNO's 16 budget and our own time. 17 Of course, the inmate handbook was updated, 18 and it's been updated frequently since then. 19 One of the things that we knew from the 20 information of the supervisor was that key control was 21 an issue. So we went to an electronic key box. With 22 the electronic key box, we can set parameters. 266 1 You had asked one of the staff about how that 2 works. Line staff are not involved in that process. 3 Corrections officers traditionally don't have keys. 4 They run their electronic panel in their housing unit. 5 So the supervisors would have keys. 6 The people that were truly impacted by the 7 changes were the supervisors on where they could go, 8 but who could access was more the Monday through Friday 9 people because we're a seven-day-a-week, 24-hour-a-day 10 operation. So when corrections officers come in, in 11 theory they would be able to swipe if they had to get a 12 key because they might be working overtime on a day 13 off. However, if they come in when they're not 14 scheduled, then that's a violation of policy when they 15 actually go to a housing unit where they're not 16 scheduled to be. And that's addressed. 17 So we made some big changes in key control. 18 Those were big steps. If you've ever worked in an old 19 institution and you know how possessive staff can get 20 with keys and master keys, when we started taking those 21 keys away, golly gee, you don't trust us any more. How 22 could you do this to us? And we said, actually, we're 267 1 protecting you. 2 And as we talked about this in training, then 3 they really started to open up and realize, yes, we 4 really were protecting them. And if they need to get 5 to an area, they can still get access to that key. 6 Yes, it's inconvenient to come up front and swipe 7 again. But who said good security is convenient? It 8 takes time to get through doors. It takes time to get 9 keys. You've got to have accountability to make the 10 system work. 11 The inmate hotline: You've talked a little 12 bit about that. 13 Isolation of offices in professional areas: 14 Those were concerns. We did purchase extra cameras, 15 and we continue to purchase about four cameras a year, 16 consistent with whatever money we're able to scrape up, 17 along with new roofs and buses and other things that 18 come up in our budget. 19 This was a blind spot. We've got a camera on 20 that back hallway. We showed that to Mr. McFarland 21 during his tour. There's the other hallway. The 22 camera's at the end of it, along with adding mirrors. 268 1 This was one of the locations where inmates were 2 actually victimized, so we knew we had an obligation to 3 fix that. 4 Windows in dry storage area: In an old 5 investigation, we saw that some activity might have 6 been taken there, so we put the large window in. In 7 addition to that, we put a camera in, and in addition 8 to that, the lighting was hard-wired to never go off. 9 MR. McFARLAND: The camera is not in the dry 10 storage. It's along -- 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Oh, it's in there, too. 12 MR. McFARLAND: There's a camera in the dry 13 storage? 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Oh, yes, above the windows 15 where the warehouse is. It's right up to your left, 16 kind of hidden beside a heater. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Not the warehouse but the dry 18 storage room? 19 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Right. Remove blinds: We 20 had some blinds in the facility, and we started 21 removing those. 22 We wanted to make some changes with the Ohio 269 1 Revised Code. We weren't able to do all the things we 2 wanted to do. But we did make contact with the Bureau 3 of Adult Detention. That is the agency that's part of 4 the Ohio Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation 5 that's responsible for inspecting all jails across the 6 State of Ohio. 7 And with that, I participated and actually 8 performed statewide staff sexual misconduct training 9 and investigators training. And there are the 10 locations and the dates that I did that across the 11 state. That was a goal as a result of the investment 12 of going to Washington. 13 I put before you a packet of information that 14 includes a summary of the unit, and also a summary of 15 our programs. One of the questions that was asked 16 of -- it might have been of the investigators -- about 17 programming, and I want to assure you that programming 18 has a key role. 19 As you heard from some of our commanders and I 20 think you surmised from some of the information that we 21 provided you, when inmates do rule violations, we write 22 them up for those rule violations and we hold them 270 1 accountable, and we do it on a consistent basis. 2 And with that being said, we try to have a 3 balance of programming, that there's a clear indication 4 to inmates that we do care about them, we do want them 5 to change, and we certainly want them to turn into 6 law-abiding citizens. 7 We have a variety of programming that you can 8 see that's in there, from GED to drug counseling. And 9 I'm sure we'll get into at a later point the trauma 10 program that we have for women, and some of the strides 11 that we've made on that specifically. 12 One of the things that came about, the trauma 13 program and the grant that we had for that, is we were 14 obligated to do staff training on trauma. And in 2007, 15 staff were trained and learned about trauma, 16 recognizing trauma or PTSD, understanding and 17 recognizing triggers, and when possible, working with 18 offenders on their triggers. 19 And we spent a lot of time talking about 20 sexual abuse based on what this hearing is about. But 21 people have a variety of triggers from a variety of 22 trauma in their lives, from loved ones dying in 271 1 automobile accidents at their hands, to gunshots, to 2 loved ones being shot and murdered in front of them. 3 There's just a variety of things that occurs. 4 And in a correctional institution, in a 5 somewhat sterile environment, there's a lot of things 6 we can do that can trigger people, and they can have an 7 adverse reaction. And that could be violent. It could 8 be very emotional, and crying and sobbing. It could be 9 somebody withdrawing. 10 And those are things that, as a result of that 11 training, we've learned to look for, address, talk, ask 12 questions, process it. Does it have meaning? Does it 13 not have meaning? And so we look at those things 14 significantly different than what we've done before. 15 As a result of the civil suit that I had 16 mentioned earlier, as a part of the discovery process, 17 we had read a lot of the information that we were 18 providing to opposing counsel. And as a result of 19 reviewing that, we found that in 2000, when the 20 incident came to light, and in 1998 specifically, 21 almost ten years ago, we had some real consistency 22 issues. 272 1 We were not enforcing policy on a consistent 2 basis. We were not doing things the way I wanted to 3 do. And we'd made great strides in the five years that 4 I'd already been there at the facility. We were doing 5 things a lot better than a lot of places. 6 However, we weren't where we needed to be. 7 And as a result of that, we set some goals. One was to 8 be a certified Ohio jail. And a certified jail in the 9 State of Ohio means that you meant 100 percent of all 10 342 minimum jail standards. 11 And that's an accreditation process that 12 occurs every three years, when they come in and do 13 that. However, they come back every year and do a jail 14 inspection on a portion of standards. But every five 15 years, we get a 100 percent audit. 16 We also decided to go for ACA accreditation. 17 And we achieved our initial accreditation in 2005, and 18 we were reaccredited in 2008. Based on that, we count 19 a lot of things that we didn't count before. And we 20 all know in the corrections business, we count the 21 things that were important. 22 And I think, based on the information that we 273 1 provided the panel, you can see that we do account for 2 things and we do file them in a somewhat organized 3 manner, and we do look at these things and review them. 4 With that being said, I'd like to go ahead and 5 make myself and Director Sullivan available to the 6 panel. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Sullivan, do you have 8 anything you wanted to say? 9 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: I'll wait for your 10 questions. 11 MR. McFARLAND: I'm going to hand the court 12 reporter the brochure entitled, "Inmate Programs and 13 Services at Corrections Center of Northwest Ohio." And 14 we'll just make that an exhibit so we don't have to 15 talk about its contents. 16 (Exhibit 1 was marked for 17 identification.) 18 MR. McFARLAND: It's very impressive. And all 19 these programs, even though your inmates are there an 20 average of 23 days? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes, they are. We do have 22 inmates that are booked and released. And we have the 274 1 other extreme, where they might be incarcerated at our 2 facility over a year. That's very rare, but that does 3 occur on occasion. As a matter of fact, based on one 4 of the questions that the panel asked, we discovered 5 that we actually had somebody there for -- 6 MR. McFARLAND: 707 days. 7 DIRECTOR DENNIS: -- 707 days, which we did 8 not realize. Thank you for asking the question. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Have you found him? 10 (Laughter.) 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: They're released. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Well, let me ask Mr. Dennis 13 some information that's been provided to us in your 14 written response. And I just want to make sure I 15 understand it correctly. 16 Your rated maximum capacity is 638? 17 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 18 MR. McFARLAND: And your average capacity, 19 your average number of inmates on any given day in 20 2007, was 586? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 22 MR. McFARLAND: And you had about 9400 275 1 individuals pass through, spend some time in 2007 in 2 your facility. Is that right? 3 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And how many of your 5 beds are in dormitory-style and how many are in single 6 cell and how many in double cell? 7 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We have 300 beds that are 8 dormitory beds. Those are five 60-bed units, 300 9 total. Then we have M building, which is a community 10 security building. And in M building, we have a 11 capacity there of I believe it's 142 beds. 12 MR. McFARLAND: And that's below minimum 13 custody level? 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes. What we refer to as 15 community security, people that are eligible to go into 16 the community on a daily basis and either work or 17 perform community service. 18 MR. McFARLAND: So that leaves a couple 19 hundred beds that are either single- or double-celled. 20 Is that correct? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We only single-cell at CCNO, 22 and I believe it's 198 cells. 276 1 MR. McFARLAND: All right. So you don't have 2 anybody who is double-celled in a cell? 3 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 4 MR. McFARLAND: And if you push up against the 5 limit, if you get up to 90 percent of rated capacity, 6 what happens? 7 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We have a policy that the 8 board has approved and -- 9 MR. McFARLAND: The board being the 10 Corrections Commission? 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: The board being Corrections 12 Commission of Northwest Ohio, of which judges are a 13 member. And they've taken on a very dynamic role in 14 passing this policy and supporting this policy in that 15 when we hit 578 inmates, or 90 percent of capacity, 16 then we produce what's referred to as an administrative 17 release. The inmates call them ARs. And when we walk 18 about the facility, that seems to be a hot topic, as to 19 when are we overcrowded and are we overcrowded. 20 And it's interesting when you consider 90 21 percent capacity to kick in overcrowding because 22 there's so many jails in the country that overcrowding 277 1 may be considered when it hits 120 percent, 140 2 percent, 180 percent. And the Commission of Northwest 3 Ohio, during the time of construction, decided that 90 4 percent was the best way to operate the facility. 5 When we hit 95 percent of capacity, any one 6 jurisdiction that is over-utilizing their beds, I have 7 the authority, and I use this term, to "shut the back 8 door." I have the authority to say no to any judge 9 that attempts to sentence somebody to the Corrections 10 Center of Northwest Ohio once they've exceeded their 11 bed allocation. 12 The only exception to that is if they want to 13 swap an inmate out one for one. So if law enforcement 14 would take somebody into custody in a domestic violence 15 incident or a serious felony, a rape or murder, then 16 they would have to contact the judge and the judge 17 would have to do the balancing act of, who am I ready 18 to release so that law enforcement can incarcerate this 19 person. 20 Or some counties will contract for additional 21 beds in adjacent counties. That's been done, and 22 continues to be done. 278 1 MR. McFARLAND: Now, what's the breakdown of 2 the inmates that you have? What percentage are 3 pretrial detainees? What percentage are parole 4 violators, and other? 5 DIRECTOR DENNIS: About 35 percent of our 6 inmates have a pretrial charge, which means about 65 7 percent of our inmates are sentenced. At CCNO, 8 however, because criminals tend to exceed their 9 boundaries or their district or their home town 10 nowadays, frequently inmates come to us with charges 11 from multiple jurisdictions. 12 So because Jim Dennis is sentenced today on 13 DUI, Jim Dennis may also have a pretrial charge in an 14 adjacent county or two counties over. And so we're 15 constantly having to deal with the issue of outstanding 16 charges and warrants in adjacent jurisdictions within 17 the CCNO community. 18 MR. McFARLAND: So the individual may be there 19 for ten days on a driving suspended license, but may be 20 there a lot longer because he has some pending -- 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. He may not leave 22 because he has pretrial charges in another 279 1 jurisdiction. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And those who have been 3 sentenced would be either misdemeanants or you can also 4 have felons. Is that correct? 5 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes. We can house a 6 sentenced felony 3, 4, or 5 also. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. So those would be 8 nonviolent, like drug possession, drug dealing? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: They could possibly be 10 domestic violence or a low-level assault charge. On 11 occasion, I have the authority to make exceptions to 12 accept maybe a felony 2 offender. Judges have that 13 ability to call me up and request an exception from me 14 to take them; for example, a young offender that they 15 may not want to send to prison because of their size, 16 and they thought they might be safer at CCNO. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Uh-huh. Before I forget, I 18 want to ask you the same questions that I asked your 19 staff earlier. And let me just direct this to Mr. 20 Sullivan. 21 What's the profile of an individual, an 22 inmate, who is more at risk of sexual assault? 280 1 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Well, I think they covered 2 several of them. I'm not sure any one individual thing 3 determines that. But there is one other issue I don't 4 think was brought up, was credibility of the inmate. 5 And sometimes, especially in a case that we were 6 involved with in 2000, the inmates that became victims 7 had credibility issues. 8 MR. McFARLAND: In other words, they had at 9 least one or more write-ups for lying to staff. Right? 10 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: That's right. 11 MR. McFARLAND: So he was rather clever in 12 picking his victims because you knew that they'd have 13 credibility problems? 14 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: It appears he was pretty 15 calculated, yes. So I think that was probably the only 16 other thing I could come up other than what they've 17 already said. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Would you challenge or 19 not share -- not agree with anything that was said 20 earlier? I don't want you to have to go through the 21 litany again. 22 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: No. 281 1 MR. McFARLAND: But is there anything that was 2 new to you or that you wouldn't particularly consider 3 to be a characteristic of an inmate victim? 4 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: No. I agreed with what 5 they said. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And what about 7 predators? 8 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Predators, this has 9 probably been talked about, but I think it's typically 10 more institutionalized inmates that have spent a lot of 11 time in prison, in jail. Other than the additional 12 stuff they talked about -- the criminal history, 13 physical size, sexual abused when they were younger, 14 power, authority. 15 MR. McFARLAND: They are seeking power or 16 authority? 17 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Yes. 18 MR. McFARLAND: What about gang affiliation? 19 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: The staff mentioned gang 20 affiliation when it came to assaults and bringing 21 themselves up higher in the ranks of the gangs. It 22 certainly could be an issue. If that's what the gang 282 1 wanted them to do, to be a predator, a sexual assault, 2 that's possible. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Well, what about -- and I 4 don't want you to speculate -- but just based on your 5 extensive experience, you've got some gangbangers in 6 your facility. Right? 7 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: That's correct. 8 MR. McFARLAND: And they're not to hard to 9 identify, between tattoos and their own admission. Is 10 that right? 11 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: That's right. 12 MR. McFARLAND: So do you believe that if 13 somebody is not a member of a gang, they are more 14 likely to be at risk because they don't have a gang 15 that's going to protect them? 16 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Oh, most definitely, 17 especially in the bigger institutions. 18 MR. McFARLAND: How about yours? 19 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: In our institution? Well, 20 I'm sure if they feel they're not protected by us and 21 they need protection from other inmates and they don't 22 have it, that's a definite possibility. 283 1 MR. McFARLAND: I mean, a predator would take 2 notice of that. Right? 3 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Exactly. 4 MS. CHUNN: Let me ask: Is there any priority 5 given to the seriousness of the crime as you look at 6 using your bed space? I understand you try to stay 7 right at about 90 or 91 percent occupancy, and that 8 you've negotiated each district having a certain number 9 of beds that, you know, at some point may require the 10 judge in that particular district to decide that he 11 wants to trade off a person that's in there. 12 But generally speaking, are the more serious 13 crimes generally given priority for bed space, or is it 14 first come/first serve, or what? 15 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: If we have a situation 16 where the doors are closed and they haven't reduced 17 their numbers yet or the population hasn't come down to 18 90 percent, and particularly in our four-county area 19 where we actually house felony 1s and felony 2s, if 20 there is a serious crime that's been committed, that 21 sheriff will call out and we'll do a trade, and they'll 22 actually get somebody released on a lesser charge, and 284 1 that person will be incarcerated. 2 MS. CHUNN: The question I really have is: 3 Since you know that there are certain types of 4 detainees who are more likely to be victimized in a 5 setting such as this than others, do you ever negotiate 6 alternative placements for those people? I think you 7 said that sometimes those counties may buy other beds 8 in other facilities. Right? 9 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Right. I'm not sure that 10 we've ever negotiated based on the need that we felt 11 someone was going to be sexually assaulted at CCNO. We 12 certainly have for public individuals, people that are 13 in the limelight or people that we really don't want to 14 house at CCNO that we can take to another institution, 15 move them back to Lucas County jail. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Dennis, you've got 134 17 sworn staff, custodial officers, on average, at least 18 last year. Is that right? On any given day? 19 DIRECTOR DENNIS: For the record, they're not 20 sworn officers. 21 MR. McFARLAND: They're not sworn? Okay. You 22 have 134 correctional officers? 285 1 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Corrections officers. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Not custodial personnel? 3 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I believe that includes 4 transportation personnel. That includes transportation 5 also. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And that doesn't 7 include the 52 non-custodial staff that you would have 8 there? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: It does not include the 10 correctional supervisors or the commanders. That 11 includes corrections officers. 12 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, all right. Okay. So 13 across three shifts, then, would you have an average of 14 45 correctional officers present, or are there more 15 present at one shift than, say, the third shift? 16 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Let me answer the question 17 this way to get to the answer I believe is the most 18 accurate. We have anywhere from 35 to 40 people 19 assigned to a given shift, but with days off. We have 20 X number of fixed posts. And with those fixed posts, 21 we probably have 25 people on the day shift, 22 maybe -- well, probably 30 people on the day shift, 286 1 probably 25 on the evening shift, and maybe 21 or so on 2 the evening shift -- or, excuse me, on the midnight 3 shift. And that would have to be verified with my 4 commanders. Those aren't the most accurate, but those 5 are ballpark figures. 6 But with days off, training, et cetera, that's 7 how many people it takes to run all three shifts. 8 MS. CHUNN: Do you recall transportation staff 9 also work in the facility, or are they dedicated 10 exclusively to transportation? 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: They're dedicated to 12 transportation. If they do have time, they might be 13 assigned to a control room or movement. 14 MS. CHUNN: Okay. Do they receive the same 15 training that your line correctional officers receive? 16 DIRECTOR DENNIS: They certainly do. They all 17 start off as corrections officers. They've all worked 18 the units before they were transportation. They have 19 to have a year's experience as a corrections officer 20 before they can even apply to be a transportation 21 officer if there's a vacancy. 22 MS. CHUNN: Is the transportation officer seen 287 1 as a plum, as a move up? 2 DIRECTOR DENNIS: By some staff, it is, and by 3 other staff, it isn't. What they like about 4 transportation is that they have the fixed days off. 5 But a lot of people don't like the long days. 6 For example, two days a week we visit all the 7 prisons in the State of Ohio. 12- to a 16-hour day, 8 and a lot of staff don't want that, even though it's 9 just two days a week. 10 A lot of people don't want the responsibility 11 of carrying a weapon. They don't want the 12 responsibility of the inmates on the highway, 13 breakdowns, et cetera. So it's relative to the person. 14 MS. CHUNN: Then they are sworn officers, 15 then, the transportation officers? 16 DIRECTOR DENNIS: By statute, I have the sole 17 ability to give them -- to certify them to carry a 18 weapon in the State of Ohio. They shoot the peace 19 officers -- what we call the OPOTA course of fire. 20 MS. CHUNN: Right. 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: But they do not have to go 22 through the peace officer training. They have to be 288 1 certified to carry a weapon in the State of Ohio. 2 MR. McFARLAND: So, Director Dennis, if 3 approximately 30 correctional officers during the day 4 shift have got an average of 586, 590 inmates, the 5 ratio of correctional officers to inmates is 6 approximately 1 to 19, 1 to 20. Is that correct? 7 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I'd have to do the math. 8 That's probably accurate. But I think most importantly 9 is understanding in our jail it's all relative to 10 security level and classification in that in a minimum 11 security unit, it's a 1 to 60 ratio. In a medium 12 security unit, it's either a 1 to 30 or a 1 to 24 13 ratio. 14 In maximum security, with our highest risk, we 15 have a supervisor, we have two officers for a total of 16 48 male beds. That's 24 general population maximum 17 security. That's 12 beds ADSEG, 12 beds disciplinary 18 SEG. So our most difficult inmates have a higher staff 19 ratio. They're also in a more secure environment. We 20 also have more controls on them. 21 During the tour that we took Mr. McFarland on, 22 he saw that in our maximum security area we have three 289 1 separate pods and we have locking doors on each side, 2 so that if at some point we would have some type of a 3 disturbance, we could prevent them from even getting 4 out of the corridor. So by architecture, we have a lot 5 of controls in our high security areas. 6 MS. CHUNN: So you have, then, the greatest 7 amount of staff supervision with the most serious or 8 likely to be serious offenders? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 10 MS. CHUNN: Do you evaluate based on your 11 incidents and other variables, on an annual basis, 12 whether in fact you need to change any of the 13 configurations? That is, you have, what, three minimum 14 security pods now? Five? 15 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Five. 16 MS. CHUNN: Right. And do you verify at least 17 on an annual basis that you need five, or maybe you 18 only need four, and you need one that's a higher level 19 of security? Do you look at certain factors and 20 determine from that what your needs are? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We don't do that on an 22 annual basis. What we do do is when we do have what we 290 1 call a serious incident, a use of force, or even during 2 an investigation, when we have a use of force, we're 3 going to look at what we did right, what we did wrong. 4 We have an after-action review. We're going 5 to look at did we comply with policy? Did policy fit 6 the situation? Do we need to change it? Is there 7 anything we need to do with the physical plant? 8 If we determine, for example, we don't have 9 enough maximum security beds, we are not in a position 10 to say, okay, let's go build more beds. 11 MS. CHUNN: Right. 12 DIRECTOR DENNIS: That's not something within 13 our control. 14 MS. CHUNN: Right. 15 DIRECTOR DENNIS: But we could go and say, and 16 have said, okay, let's lock down EM unit, which is 17 general population maximum security. Let's treat that 18 temporarily as part ADSEG and part general pop. 19 So there are things we can do to gain more 20 controls, yes, just like we can send people to their 21 bunks. And it's amazing. When we train staff, new 22 staff come aboard, I think the first time that they 291 1 have an incident, we train them to isolate and contain. 2 And one of the ways you do that in a dorm is 3 say, if two guys are going to fight, okay, you guys, go 4 to your bunks. They don't go to their bunks. 5 Everybody in the housing unit, go to your bunks now. 6 So 58 people go to their bunks, and all's we have left 7 is the two fighters. 8 And if we can get them -- or potential 9 fighters. And if we can get them separated, one's 10 going to come up and sit at the officer's desk, one's 11 going to sit on the far side of the room, as backup 12 comes in about 15 to 20 seconds. 13 So there's things that we do, based on our 14 physical plant and based on how we operate, that allows 15 us a great deal of flexibility. Construction is just 16 not one of them. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Sullivan, what other ways 18 are there for an inmate to get the message out that 19 they have been sexually assaulted? You've heard the 20 testimony about a Request to Staff or filing a 21 grievance. That has to go through a correctional 22 officer. 292 1 So we've heard about asking to see a nurse, 2 asking for some time with the chaplain if you're 3 passing him or her, maybe getting a kite out with the 4 nurse when she's passing out meds. Would that be an 5 option? 6 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Certainly. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And doing the hotline 8 that goes directly to Mr. Grey (sic). Is that right? 9 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Mr. Clay, yes. 10 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Clay. I'm sorry. Are 11 there any other ways that an inmate could report? 12 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: I'm not sure if you 13 mentioned volunteers. And the reason I say that is 14 because I believe the 2000 or 1998 incident there was 15 originally reported to a volunteer. That was where it 16 originated from. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, that's right. So that was 18 a victim reporting after release that she had been 19 violated physically in the jail. Is that right? 20 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Right. And also substance 21 abuse staff is another option. 22 MR. McFARLAND: For that matter, any of the 293 1 program staff. 2 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Exactly. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Are all of the program staff 4 and volunteers required to report? 5 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Yes. That's part of the 6 training that we give them. They go through the same 7 training our staff goes through. 8 MR. McFARLAND: And what about the contract 9 people? 10 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Yes. Same thing. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Is consensual sexual activity 12 among inmates, is that a problem in your facility? Is 13 that a violation in your facility? 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Is that a question to me? 15 MR. McFARLAND: Yes, sir. 16 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Could you restate it? 17 MR. McFARLAND: Can inmates have sexual 18 contact with one another as long as it's consensual? 19 DIRECTOR DENNIS: No, they cannot. 20 MR. McFARLAND: That's a violation of policy? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: It's a violation of the 22 inmate disciplinary policy in particular. 294 1 MR. McFARLAND: Is it a criminal -- is it a 2 crime in Ohio? 3 DIRECTOR DENNIS: No. No, it's not. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Is it a crime in Ohio for the 5 staff to have sexual contact with an inmate? 6 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes. It's sexual battery. 7 MR. McFARLAND: And I take it that would be a 8 policy violation as well. Right? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Very much so. It's a felony 10 3 in the State of Ohio. 11 MS. CHUNN: You know, if I understood some of 12 the previous testimony, it appeared to me that there 13 were certain issues that seemed to -- when they 14 involved sexual abuse, seemed to always come to you at 15 some point. Is that pretty much how you handle that? 16 I mean, do you know of every situation that involves 17 either inmate-on-inmate or detainee-on-detainee -- I 18 imagine detainee is probably a better term -- on 19 detainee or staff-on-detainee, inappropriate sexual 20 conduct? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes. 22 MS. CHUNN: Is that something -- how did you 295 1 do that? 2 DIRECTOR DENNIS: One of the things I learned 3 early in my career was that I needed to know what was 4 going on in the facility. And there's two good ways to 5 do that. One is read every incident report that's 6 written, and number two, get out and talk to staff and 7 inmates. 8 And you have to probe. You have to ask some 9 probing questions. Is there anything I need to know? 10 How are you doing today? And then you have to 11 have -- quite frankly, you have to have credibility 12 with the inmate population that you can get things done 13 if they're going to approach you. 14 And I've developed that reputation. If an 15 inmate's being kept too long and there might be a 16 sentence issue, and maybe staff are at odds -- I mean, 17 what's unique about CCNO is we actually serve 37 18 courts. That means 37 separate judges. And that 19 doesn't even include magistrates. That's misdemeanor 20 courts, felony courts, family courts, juvenile 21 courts -- because in the State of Ohio, the day they 22 turn 18, they walk them over to our back door at 12:01 296 1 on their 18th birthday. 2 So we deal with a variety of different courts. 3 And so we have to have staff that can kind of navigate 4 the courts. And when that doesn't occur and inmates 5 feel something needs to happen and they see me out in 6 the housing unit or they see Director Sullivan out in 7 the housing unit, I want them to know that if this is a 8 real issue, I'm going to spend my time on it. I'm 9 going to invest staff time in it. And if I have to fix 10 it, then I'll fix it. 11 Same thing with the disciplinary process or 12 the grievance process. Sometimes we're wrong, and when 13 we're wrong, I need to be the person that fixes it. 14 However, one of the things I encourage my staff to do, 15 especially with grievances and discipline, if that's 16 something that can be fixed at a lower level, then I 17 want them to do it. 18 That was one of the things that we worked real 19 hard at, especially when we came back from the 20 Washington trip, was trying to get out the thought or 21 the philosophy that grievances aren't anything we 22 should be ashamed of. They're not anything we should 297 1 hide. Grievances tell us how we're doing or not doing. 2 And if an inmate lies about it, which is one 3 of the things that staff get really defensive about in 4 our business -- well, that inmate's just lying -- well, 5 let's investigate it and find out because if an inmate 6 files a grievance and they lie, guess what? We know 7 they lied. 8 And if they do the same thing a second time, 9 we know they've lied twice. And if they do the same 10 thing a third time, they don't have much credibility 11 with us any more, and we've spent the time and energy 12 to investigate it. 13 And it took staff a while to get that concept 14 that grievances can help us. It's not always an "I 15 gotcha." And I think that's one of the things that we 16 had to work hard about. Even when staff make errors, 17 we need to fix the errors. 18 If it raises to the level that discipline 19 needs to be taken, then we're going to take discipline. 20 If we can fix it, let's fix it. If we can counsel 21 people and fix it, let's counsel people and fix it. 22 I'm looking for employees to be here for the long run 298 1 if I get the right people. 2 And one of the comments that Mr. McFarland 3 made was about our staff turnover from 2006 to 2007. 4 Quite frankly, it's the first time I ever looked at 5 that information. We look at annual turnover rate, our 6 annual turnover rate last year was about 11 percent. I 7 never looked at it from 2006 to 2007. 8 But I'll tell you this: When I talk to my 9 employees -- and I do pre-service training; I have 10 three hours on Jim Dennis' philosophy, three hours, and 11 I make them stay awake for it, too -- I talk about 12 these specific issues, and they hear it from my lips, 13 and I set the agenda. And I talk about grievances, and 14 I talk about staff sexual misconduct. 15 These are all hot issues that have to be 16 addressed. And staff have to understand the importance 17 of them. It's not something that just -- when I walk 18 out the door, that stops. And I was quite pleased with 19 what my commanders had to say and how that they 20 understand that these things are important to me. 21 Because they do understand that they're 22 important to me. And they also understand that if 299 1 there's something that we can fix at a lower level, 2 let's fix it at a lower level. Why wait for Jim Dennis 3 to fix it? 4 Inmates need to know that corrections officers 5 are resourceful, that case managers are resourceful, 6 that other people in the chain of command are 7 resourceful. That's what I'm looking for when I 8 promote people. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Sullivan, I wanted to ask 10 you: When one of your investigators is considering 11 whether the facts warrant referring a matter for 12 prosecution, criminal prosecution, what standard of 13 proof are they supposed to use? 14 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Well, typically that 15 wouldn't be my decision. But if it was, it would 16 definitely be -- it would probably be less than 17 probable cause because probable cause is plenty enough 18 to proceed in a court hearing. So I would say 19 reasonable suspicion, enough that we need to turn it 20 over and let the sheriff's department take a look at 21 it. 22 MR. McFARLAND: And how often does that 300 1 happen? When is the last time that anybody in your 2 office referred a sexual assault allegation for 3 possible prosecution? 4 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Actually, it hasn't come 5 from my office. It comes from Executive Director 6 Dennis. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Regardless of who it 8 comes from, when is the last time you're aware that 9 such an allegation was referred to an outside 10 prosecutor? 11 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: You're asking for a 12 specific one or -- 13 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 14 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Wayne Smith. I believe 15 that was referred to the sheriff's department. And 16 that's in our packet here. 17 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. Mr. Dennis, are there 18 any other incidents that you can -- when is the last 19 time that you can recall a sexual assault being 20 referred for prosecution, possible prosecution? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I'm pretty sure it was Wayne 22 Smith. 301 1 MR. McFARLAND: And that was in '07? 2 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 3 MR. McFARLAND: And prior to that, without 4 using the name of the inmate? 5 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I'm sorry. I don't 6 recollect. We actually prepared for 2007 and not 7 before that. Sorry. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Well, it sounds like you don't 9 have a whole lot of occasions to refer things. So 10 that's -- 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Well, we do -- our policy is 12 that any time a crime is committed at CCNO, we do refer 13 it. And so, for example, when criminal damaging, 14 somebody breaks a shower head, breaks a door window or 15 something like that, that's referred for immediate 16 referral to the sheriff's department. So, I mean, 17 staff do do that. 18 When it comes to sexual abuse, we want to 19 verify that an incident actually took place. We'll 20 call in the investigator, who's used to working with 21 CCNO staff, the Williams County investigator. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And that's -- separate 302 1 and apart from the sexual assault instance, when is the 2 last time you called in a Williams County investigator 3 to investigate any kind of crime on your facility? 4 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I think we had a shower head 5 broken -- sprinkler head broken in the last two or 6 three weeks. 7 MR. McFARLAND: A sprinkler head? 8 That's -- all right. Anything more serious than that, 9 I mean, that you -- 10 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We had a staff member 11 assaulted, a serious staff member assault. Ended up in 12 an F2 felony. 13 MR. McFARLAND: And when was that? 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: He had serious injuries. 15 That was about six weeks ago. 16 MS. CHUNN: Is there any reluctance or 17 reticence on the part of the accepting agency to move 18 forward with prosecuting any of those cases that you 19 may bring to their attention? 20 MR. McFARLAND: They don't care what's going 21 on in a jail, do they? 22 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I think it's situational. I 303 1 mean, there are times that they've decided that they 2 would prosecute and some that they didn't. And some of 3 those we disagree with and they know it. 4 Most recently, about three or four months ago, 5 we had an inmate that put in -- or swallowed a bag full 6 of cash. He had about, I don't know, a couple hundred 7 dollars that he had swallowed and eventually defecated. 8 And I wanted to prosecute him for bringing 9 contraband into a penal facility in the State of Ohio, 10 and they wouldn't file for it. I was disappointed, and 11 they knew that. They would gladly do a weapon. They 12 would gladly do drugs. But they didn't want to do 13 money. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Director Dennis, how do you 15 motivate prosecutors to be as zealous about criminal 16 prosecutions in the sexual assault area in your 17 facility as they are if the assault occurred on the 18 streets? 19 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I need to have a better 20 relationship with them and spend more time with them. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Any other practical advice for 22 your fellow wardens? 304 1 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I think it would behoove us 2 to maybe spend some extra time with them one on one, 3 probably in a meeting type of setting. And we've got a 4 new prosecutor, and I probably need to spend more time 5 than just phone contact with him, maybe face to face. 6 Even though we know each other, it would probably be 7 better off if we did that. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Is your prosecutor elected? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes. One of the things that 10 we do that kind of eases something, and I don't know if 11 it makes a difference or not to the panel, but one of 12 the things that we try to do because we're regional 13 jails is we have this sense of fairness about the 14 members. 15 And every crime that occurs at the Corrections 16 Center of Northwest Ohio obviously would get filed in 17 Williams County. And they really don't have the 18 resources to truly investigate every little thing that 19 happens at CCNO. 20 That is why my board said I need to have a 21 certified peace officer as my investigator. So Tim 22 does a lot of the investigations, puts the packet 305 1 together. They come out, normally just interview the 2 person, and they go forward. And frequently, 3 frequently there's a plea agreement involved based on 4 Tim's investigation. And so that really helps. 5 The other side of that is when that occurs, 6 whatever jurisdiction that inmate is from that 7 committed that crime, they continue to pay the bill for 8 that person even though they're serving a Williams 9 County charge to make it fair. 10 So I don't know that there's any reluctance. 11 I think it's maybe a quality of evidence. Maybe 12 there's a little bit of philosophy there. But -- 13 MR. McFARLAND: How would you -- if you had 14 some more money for PREA enforcement, where would you 15 spend it? 16 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Well, we would look at some 17 cameras in strategic locations. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Where would you want to add 19 cameras? 20 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I would like to have a 21 camera in each housing unit. I would like to 22 have -- there's some more hallways that would be good 306 1 to have cameras in so you can note the points of 2 egress, going into an area or coming out of an area. 3 If you had an allegation occur or any type of 4 criminal activity, if you got somebody walking into the 5 door and coming out of the door at a specific time, 6 normally that's going to help you make your case. 7 One of the great things about corrections and 8 one of the great things about the Corrections Center of 9 Northwest Ohio is that staff do follow policy fairly 10 consistently, and that means logging people in and out 11 of units. So when an inmate leaves to go to medical, 12 when an inmate leaves to go to recreation, when an 13 inmate leaves to go wherever, they're logged out. 14 Whenever a staff member comes in, they're 15 logged in. Whenever they have -- so we got -- we have 16 the ability in a lot of investigations at least to 17 circumstantially put people there at a certain location 18 at a certain time. 19 MR. McFARLAND: And where would you want to 20 put another person? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: If I had another person? 22 Oh, goodness. I know you've been making a lot of 307 1 comments about our community security building 2 specifically. And certainly another staff member going 3 up and down would help. 4 Probably look at maybe a split shift because, 5 for example, during the day when I've got 60 people out 6 working, obviously I don't need two people there during 7 the day. I need them back when searches are going on. 8 And certainly in the evening, when there's a lot of 9 activity and people want to use the vending machines, 10 programmatic activities going on, it would be nice to 11 have an extra movement person. 12 So certainly M building. I don't know that I 13 need an extra person on all three shifts, but I think 14 we could certainly use one on a split shift, and that 15 would help quite a bit. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Anything else you'd want to do 17 with your new PREA money? 18 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Certainly we'd put a lot 19 more windows in doors. 20 MR. McFARLAND: Like which doors? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Oh, goodness. We've got 22 closet doors. We've got office doors in certain 308 1 places. Not that they're not in direct supervision, 2 not that we don't have windows down hallways, because 3 we do, and we've got mirrors, and we've got staff 4 walking around. But it would be nice to have those 5 extra windows so we can look in. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Like the medical lab? 7 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Pardon me? 8 MR. McFARLAND: The medical lab? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes. The medical lab would 10 be another one. The offices in the medical area. Ms. 11 Garza-Romero's office doesn't have a window in it. I'm 12 sure she'll be glad to get a window. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Mr. Sullivan, where would you 14 want to spend some extra money if you had it to make 15 CCNO even better? 16 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Well, definitely cameras, 17 as he mentioned. That's kind of my area, and I think 18 that's real helpful for the facility for security 19 purposes as well. 20 I wrote a couple things down here. Electronic 21 key box. We've currently got our boxes full. Those 22 are relatively expensive, so it would be nice to have 309 1 another box. Windows, a couple places that maybe we 2 missed -- the warehouse, the boiler room. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Does anybody ever rove down 4 that hallway to the warehouse? You ever have a 5 correctional officer that goes down that way? Even if 6 you had a window on the door to the warehouse, would 7 anybody ever be walking by there? 8 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Actually, probably not 9 because that's a pretty restricted area with keys. To 10 get through that first door before you come to the new 11 door that we put in, you've got to have a key to get to 12 that area. 13 MR. McFARLAND: And yet you've got a 14 correctional officer in there alone with an inmate. 15 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Same sex. Right. 16 MR. McFARLAND: Does that concern either of 17 you? 18 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: For safety reasons or for 19 sexual assault? 20 MR. McFARLAND: Sexual assault reasons? Not 21 to mention the risk of false allegations of what your 22 correctional officer did or didn't do to the inmate 310 1 where you don't have any cameras. You have hardwired 2 lights. You have no -- you don't have a window on the 3 door, I don't believe. 4 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: No. 5 MR. McFARLAND: You don't have anybody going 6 down that hallway. You don't have a camera on that 7 hallway. 8 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Yes. We have a camera on 9 the hallway. 10 MR. McFARLAND: All right. But nobody's going 11 down there, so there's nothing to watch. 12 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Yes. The only thing we 13 have is maintenance across the hallway. That's pretty 14 active. 15 MR. McFARLAND: There was nobody in there when 16 we walked in. 17 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Soon after you walked in. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Soon after we walked in. It 19 doesn't take long. 20 MS. CHUNN: I want to ask a question about 21 competing mandates and priorities that you have. 22 You've spoken about accreditation efforts and that kind 311 1 of thing. I want to know, how difficult was it to put 2 together what you've done with PREA with the other 3 priorities that you have, like accreditation? 4 And I'm sure there are other things that I 5 have not mentioned that are just as important in your 6 state to have done. But tell me, has that been fairly 7 seamless, or how did you approach it? 8 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I don't think there's 9 anything we do that's seamless. I think one of the 10 keys, quite frankly, is the fact that I've been there 11 for 15 years. 12 MS. CHUNN: I do, too. 13 DIRECTOR DENNIS: And I really like being 14 there. I feel real value in being there. And I have 15 great staff working for me, and it's a great physical 16 plant -- not that we don't have areas that we can make 17 it better, but we have a great physical plant. 18 Some of the prisons I've worked from, I told 19 Mr. McFarland I thought I'd died and gone to 20 corrections heaven the first time I went through that 21 building because I'd never been in a facility that was 22 built for direct supervision. And even though it's not 312 1 perfect, it's a far cry from some of the joints that 2 I've worked in. 3 One of my commanders made the comment that it 4 was an evolving process, and it really is. We started, 5 really, the PREA process in 2002. If you think about 6 it, we really started it with my ethics policy coming 7 out in I believe it was 1995 or '97 when we really came 8 out with the ethics policy and really put some teeth 9 into some anti-fraternization stuff -- the no-contact 10 rule after release, some of the staff sexual misconduct 11 language -- before we went to the training. 12 That information was there. Staff were given 13 that information way before that supervisor did what he 14 did. So that was in place, certainly not in detail 15 like it is. We certainly didn't do the training like 16 we've done. But it was an evolving process. 17 The civil lawsuit certainly impacted me, 18 certainly made me look about making some changes and 19 how we wanted to do the changes. And to give the 20 impression that some people didn't come kicking and 21 screaming would be a false impression because not 22 everybody got on board at once. It was incremental. 313 1 Not everybody bought onto the program, whether it was 2 PREA, whether it was ACA, whether it was the jail 3 certification process in Ohio. 4 I knew from working in an accredited facility 5 in Oklahoma that that would make us more consistent. 6 The other side of that is I also knew from Oklahoma 7 that -- I worked for some great people and had some 8 great experience. But there's things that we did there 9 that I didn't want to do in a new facility like this. 10 And I had a thought about otherwise we needed 11 to run this facility. And we need to run it. And I 12 think that's one of the keys, and I don't know that 13 that's been communicated very well today at all, is the 14 fact that one of my key components or one of my key 15 philosophies is we have to run this facility. 16 We're not here because inmates let us hang out 17 here and get eight hours a day and a paycheck. We're 18 here because we're running it. And we're going to make 19 it safe for the public, and we're going to make it safe 20 for each other, and we're going to make it safe for the 21 inmates. 22 And my staff do hear that. And they do hear 314 1 about the mission statement. And I do ask them about 2 it. And I do ask them, tell me, how do you contribute 3 to the mission? Those are legitimate questions to ask 4 at the Corrections Center of Northwest Ohio. It's not 5 lip service. 6 MR. McFARLAND: What plans do you all have for 7 additional training in the area of sexual assault for 8 any of your staff? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Well, one of the things that 10 I've been exposed to in the training that I've done 11 across the country is the SANE training. And -- 12 MR. McFARLAND: SANE as in Sexual Assault 13 Nurse Examiner? 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Sexual Assault Nurse 15 Examiner training, and actually some of the victims 16 stuff. There's some states that are doing some real 17 innovative things that, quite frankly, aren't being 18 done in Ohio. 19 So, for example, you all have been exposed to 20 probably some state-of-the-art things in victims 21 rights, just like Ms. Ellis has, and maybe she even 22 does it. Well, the rest of the country hasn't come 315 1 that far yet, just like in staff sexual misconduct and 2 PREA. 3 Yes, we're a lot farther than others, but we 4 started in 2002, and there's a whole lot of places that 5 are kicking and screaming. 6 MR. McFARLAND: So you're like to give Ms. 7 Garza-Romero access to SANE training? 8 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Oh, I think not only -- they 9 need exposure to it. I don't want them to be certified 10 SANE nurse examiners. I'm not saying that. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Oh, okay. 12 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I want them to be exposed to 13 that. Ethically, there's some issues for them to do 14 that. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. Do you want rape kits to 16 be administered at your facility? 17 DIRECTOR DENNIS: No. I want them to be 18 administered at the Williams County Hospital. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper 20 for you to do it at your place? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I think that they need to 22 leave CCNO if that occurs. 316 1 MR. McFARLAND: Why is that? 2 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I think for the gathering of 3 evidence. I think for the victim to be associated with 4 victims assistance outside the correctional 5 institution, outside the fence, outside the walls, I 6 think there's value to that. I think it would still be 7 more traumatic to do at CCNO, in my opinion. 8 MR. McFARLAND: How competitive is your salary 9 for correctional officers with the Ohio Department of 10 Corrections? 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: They make -- they did make; 12 I don't know what's happened since all their 13 layoffs -- but they were making about $2 an hour more 14 than what we were. While we're very competitive with 15 northwest Ohio in the four or five rural counties that 16 we sit in, certainly they pay more. 17 As a matter of fact, in 2000 when the prison 18 opened in Toledo, we lost approximately 20 staff. As a 19 matter of fact, most of our minority staff left us 20 because they were living in Toledo. And $2 more an 21 hour and don't have an hour drive, it's not rocket 22 science, and they're still working in the corrections 317 1 field, and several of them are doing pretty good. 2 MR. McFARLAND: What's the average pay for 3 your COs? 4 DIRECTOR DENNIS: If they have a year 5 experience, I think it's close to $15 an hour now. 6 MR. McFARLAND: They start at 13.70-something? 7 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes, while they're on 8 probation. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. And you have -- tell me 10 about your health insurance. 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Corrections officers 12 specifically -- we have different packages for the 13 different unions that they've negotiated -- the 14 corrections officers, they pay 10 percent of the 15 premium, the actual cost of the premium. That's taken 16 out of their paycheck. And then it's $10 office visit 17 and 100 percent coverage other than that. 18 MR. McFARLAND: You can see a dentist for $5 19 in your facility. Correct? 20 DIRECTOR DENNIS: That's the inmates, not 21 staff. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. It was a pretty 318 1 impressive health package. 2 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Sorry about the confusion 3 there. 4 MR. McFARLAND: I want to go back to the 5 cameras for a minute. I thought you had a very 6 innovative idea. Not everybody knows where all the 7 cameras are, right, Mr. Sullivan? 8 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: That's correct. We have 9 cameras, more than one camera inside the facility, 10 that's unknown by staff and inmates. 11 MR. McFARLAND: And so only a couple of you 12 know where some of the hidden cameras are? 13 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Some know where some are 14 at, more than a couple, maybe three or four people. 15 And there's others that just Jim and myself know. 16 MR. McFARLAND: That's very clever. And what 17 about -- am I correct that you do have a camera where 18 the strip searches for new admittees takes place? Is 19 that correct? 20 DIRECTOR DENNIS: On the hallway. Not in the 21 strip search room, it's on the hallway where you go 22 into the room. 319 1 MR. McFARLAND: I thought there was -- maybe 2 we were just talking about -- 3 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We were talking about uses 4 of force. Would you like me to expand on that? 5 MR. McFARLAND: Yes, sure. 6 DIRECTOR DENNIS: What we were talking about 7 was whenever we have a use of force or we're moving 8 somebody to maximum security that does not want to go 9 to maximum security, whenever we place somebody in a 10 specifically disciplinary SEG or ADSEG, we're going to 11 do a complete strip search of them to make sure that 12 they don't have any weapons or anything that can hurt 13 them. 14 One of the things that we do for privacy 15 reasons is that if it's a male, we videotape the strip 16 search from the waist up. If it's a female, we try to 17 get the back. And -- 18 MR. McFARLAND: Have you thought about doing 19 that for all strip searches just to avoid allegations 20 of impropriety going on when the inmate is naked? 21 DIRECTOR DENNIS: That's a thought. It 22 compromises security, but that's a thought. It's 320 1 something to consider. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Having a camera would 3 compromise security? 4 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I guess I don't understand 5 what you're saying. 6 MR. McFARLAND: What if you had -- you've got 7 a half wall in the room where the strip searches take 8 place. Is that right? 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: No. 10 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: No. It's an open shower. 11 MR. McFARLAND: It must have been the other 12 facility. All right. Well, what if you -- in the same 13 way you photograph from the waist up, you did that 14 routinely for male inmates? Is there some reason why 15 it would compromise security to just have a camera 16 waist up for any strip search, not just use of force? 17 DIRECTOR DENNIS: But not be able -- the staff 18 member conducting the strip search -- so I understand, 19 you're suggestion is the staff member conducting the 20 strip search would not view the genitalia? That would 21 be behind a half wall? 22 MR. McFARLAND: No, no, no. The staff member, 321 1 same sex, would have to -- that's the purpose of the 2 strip search -- would have to view the genitalia and, 3 you know, anal area and so forth. 4 But I'm just saying, having a camera so that 5 the inmate cannot allege that behind closed doors while 6 the strip search was going on, the inmate -- the 7 correctional officer was inappropriately touching them 8 or forcing them to do things that were other than a 9 body cavity search. 10 Additional documentation to protect yourself. 11 If you do it for use of force, why not do it for all 12 strip searches? 13 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Operationally, I think it 14 would be difficult. I mean, you're going to have a 15 camera pointed in a certain area based on each person's 16 individual height. We usually have them turn around so 17 we can look at the bottom of their feet. So, you know, 18 if it is a female, I would think a lot of the inmates 19 would be offended and thinking that we're actually 20 videotaping their private parts. It could turn into 21 more use of force as well. 22 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Certainly claims of privacy, 322 1 too. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Well, you folks are the 3 experts. But I'm just suggesting that you could have a 4 simple curtain. You wouldn't have to readjust the 5 camera every time. You just have a waist-high curtain 6 for your average six-foot male. 7 And the correctional officer is around the 8 curtain looking at everything, but the camera is just 9 showing that at no time did the individual get touched 10 in an inappropriate way. 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: And the suggestion is that 12 that would protect staff? 13 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We'll consider it. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Just an idea. 16 MS. CHUNN: Good job. 17 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Sorry it took so long for me 18 to get it. 19 MR. McFARLAND: And your commissary, you have 20 a mobile commissary you just wheel into the units. 21 Right? 22 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 323 1 MR. McFARLAND: I'm just trying to put these 2 observations on the record so that we can fact-find. 3 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes. It's rather unique. 4 We were a test site for this commissary practice 5 through Aramark, our commissary provider. And the idea 6 is they have a very large cart. If you could imagine, 7 oh, maybe a small little store type setup like at an 8 airport where you've got about 60 different items on 9 about four different shelves. 10 And that's the same concept, only we put it on 11 a stainless steel cart and we take it from housing unit 12 to housing unit. And Aramark staff can go up and scan 13 the inmate's wristband in so we know who the inmate is. 14 We verify how much money they have on their account. 15 We verify their security level so we tell them -- for 16 example, they're minimum security -- you get to 17 purchase $60 worth of items because you're minimum 18 security. 19 And the inmate goes up and says, I want three 20 of those, two of those. I want four Three Musketeers 21 bars. And we say, sorry, there's only one. What else 22 would you like? And then they get to choose what they 324 1 want because a lot of times there's some confusion and 2 some anger and hurt feelings over commissary when 3 either you don't fulfill them -- fulfill the order with 4 zero or you choose for the inmate what they want. And 5 so this is working out great. 6 It has relieved a little bit of staff time 7 from our unit staff, but it's really increased the 8 efforts of the commissary people. We like it. I don't 9 know that we're making any more money off of it. 10 But we also get to do some fresh items, which 11 is kind of neat, that Aramark now -- each week they 12 come up with a specialty item. Like this week it might 13 be six chocolate chip cookies, and when they walk into 14 the unit with about six dozen chocolate chip cookies 15 selling them six at a time, and the inmates smell those 16 cookies, they're a hot item. Or it could be hoagies or 17 whatever. 18 So it's one of those things that we're doing 19 that we think helps the climate a little bit. 20 MR. McFARLAND: How do you track grievances? 21 Do you number them serially, or do you -- what's the 22 process once an inmate turns in that grievance form? 325 1 Who looks at it? Where does it go? How is it kept 2 track of? 3 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: I'll go ahead and answer. 4 The grievance comes to my office. The secretary will 5 track those in a book in order. And then I assign 6 those to the department head, or if it's regarding 7 security, then I would assign it to the person that 8 needs to address it; if it's a support service issue, 9 to go over to the director of support services. 10 And then it's logged when it gets returned 11 back in, and everything dated when it goes out, dated 12 when it comes back in. And then if there's an appeal, 13 the appeal will eventually go to Executive Director 14 Dennis. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Is there any reason why you 16 wouldn't want to have a duplicate of the grievance form 17 and a duplicate of the Request to Staff? 18 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: No. Actually, you 19 mentioned that. We talked about that. It sounded like 20 a great idea. Right now we tend to have to go make 21 copies every time the inmate wants a copy of it. And 22 your reasoning is -- I like what you're saying. If he 326 1 said he gave us three of them and he can't produce 2 three of them, then maybe he didn't. 3 MR. McFARLAND: What would make your facility 4 even safer with respect to sexual assault? What's one 5 thing that we haven't mentioned that you'd like to 6 consider? What's something you don't do perfectly? 7 Yes, sir? 8 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: I would say I'm it would 9 be pretty staff-intensive, but never be in a situation 10 where you have one on one. And I'm not sure that that 11 could always be possible because you'd have to have two 12 staff members every time you're on an inmate. But one 13 on one, as you said, sometimes puts you in a little bit 14 of jeopardy even for false accusations. 15 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I think when you do more on 16 the inmate education and training aspect. I realize 17 that we have a lot of good information in our inmate 18 handbook and we have the video orientation, which is a 19 little bit more than a lot of places. But I think we 20 can do more to educate the inmates about this. 21 One of the things that's a little bit 22 different in jails is that when inmates come to jail, 327 1 they really believe it's a temporary thing, that they 2 can get in and out and it's going to be there. And 3 unfortunately, the criminal personality is such that 4 they want to have power and control and manipulate. 5 And because we educate the inmates about staff 6 sexual misconduct, because we really put it out there 7 and tell them it's an issue and they really know it's a 8 sensitive issue and it's a real tickle point with Jim 9 Dennis, they make a lot of allegations thinking that 10 they can get out of jail or they can manipulate staff. 11 It's kind of like the slip and fall. You 12 know, somebody slips and falls in the shower, and I 13 can't tell you how many times people have tried to 14 negotiate an early release with me so that they don't 15 sue me over slip and fall. 16 And the same thing has happened on a variety 17 of different types of allegations. And even when 18 family members would call and complain to a judge about 19 whatever, whether it's excessive force or bad food or 20 whatever it is, the judge calls me to tell me these 21 things. 22 And I've never, ever had a judge release 328 1 anybody based on a complaint because they deal with 2 these offenders. And I think we could do a better job 3 of letting them know that we do take this serious, but 4 don't take advantage of us. 5 This is really important for those people that 6 get victimized. And to make a game out of it, to make 7 a mockery of it, absolutely does a complete disservice 8 to this whole process and everything that we've put 9 into it. 10 And I think that in a jail, which is 11 completely different from that aspect from a prison 12 because people know they're not getting out until their 13 sentence is up, in a jail they come and go, and they 14 post bond, and deals are made, and the average length 15 of stay is 23 days. 16 And quite frankly, that's long in a lot of 17 jails in Ohio for somebody that's sentenced. Most 18 sentenced people don't end up in jail. That's mostly 19 pretrial people that end up in jail. So we're kind of 20 unique from that aspect. 21 And the other side of that is I would continue 22 to do more things to educate staff on first responders. 329 1 There's some great information that's just recently 2 come out from NIC. We've got to get staff hooked up 3 with some of that stuff. They've come out with some 4 great videos that were a part of that, and my staff 5 have been exposed to that. 6 For example, there's a corrections officer 7 referred to as the Robinson video, and I believe it's a 8 CO from Maryland, the state of Maryland. And it 9 was -- the scenario is that a weaker, smaller, 10 effeminate-acting inmate was raped by somebody. 11 And this corrections officer identifies the 12 inmate, knows that they're distraught, can see that 13 they're distraught. And this corrections officer is 14 absolutely relentless on trying to get this person to 15 come forward and trying to file a complaint. 16 And that was a great video for my staff. They 17 thought this was great. They could tell it was real. 18 They could tell that the corrections officer was real. 19 And one of the things that we don't do enough of in 20 corrections is show people how to do it correctly. 21 We have these great training programs, and 22 they're full of do's and don'ts, and what do we focus 330 1 on? The don'ts. We don't focus on, this is the best 2 way to handle this situation. 3 And I think that's one of the things that we 4 need to do with inmates and staff. We need to 5 concentrate on more training about this is the best way 6 to handle this situation. As an inmate, if you feel 7 pressured, this is how you need to come up. This is 8 how you need to approach staff. This is the 9 information you need to say. I think that would 10 improve things for staff and inmates both. 11 MR. McFARLAND: I'm not sure we have it on the 12 record. Are cross-gender pat-downs permitted in your 13 facility? 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: No. 15 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: No. 16 MR. McFARLAND: So a female officer is never 17 going -- unless it's an emergency, is never going to be 18 patting down a male offender. Is that correct? 19 DIRECTOR DENNIS: That's correct. 20 Approximately 43 percent of our staff are female, so we 21 always have available female staff. And so we don't 22 have to worry about that. If there's a search that 331 1 needs to be done with male inmates, even though a 2 female officer is supervising a male unit, a male 3 officer or supervisor can come in and do the pat-down. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Well, that was my next 5 question. Is there cross-gender direct supervision in 6 your facility? 7 DIRECTOR DENNIS: If you could explain that a 8 little better. 9 MR. McFARLAND: Can female COs be in a male 10 unit doing the direct -- providing the direct 11 supervision? 12 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Yes, they can. 13 MR. McFARLAND: Not just the rovers? 14 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. We have female 15 staff in male institutions. 16 MR. McFARLAND: But not vice versa? 17 DIRECTOR DENNIS: No. 18 MR. McFARLAND: No male in the J-1 and -- 19 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Female units. Correct. We 20 have enough female staff that we don't have to worry 21 about putting males in there. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Why don't you just -- you have 332 1 a majority of male staff. Why not just avoid 2 cross-gender supervision in the male facilities? 3 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I don't have enough male 4 staff for all the male units. Besides that, female 5 staff have case law on their side. 6 MR. McFARLAND: And strip searches are never 7 cross-gender. Is that right? 8 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 9 MS. CHUNN: One minor little thing. Do you 10 have detainees who cannot read at all? 11 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We have an audio tape that 12 they can listen to in English and Spanish. 13 MS. CHUNN: Oh, good. Thank you. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Well, I want to on behalf of 15 the panel thank you, Mr. Dennis, and all of the members 16 of your staff. I know that we took out most of your 17 senior management for a day or two, and we greatly 18 appreciate your testimony, the time you spent, the 19 hospitality you afforded me on Monday. I don't take it 20 for granted, and greatly appreciate it. 21 You have a superb facility, best I can tell, 22 and not just good policies but practice, and you take 333 1 your zero tolerance seriously. And I just really want 2 to affirm the facility that you're running, and the 3 staff are very impressive. You don't want to lose any 4 of the people that have testified here today. The fact 5 that you've hung around for 15 years is a good sign as 6 well. 7 Rather than going through a litany of all the 8 things that I think are best practices that you're 9 doing, I think we've mentioned many -- virtually all of 10 them. I don't think we mentioned the fact that you 11 don't have any bolt locks on the doors, and that the 12 doors cannot be locked from the inside. 13 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Specifically staff bathrooms 14 and closets. 15 MR. McFARLAND: Real good idea. 16 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Offices. 17 DIRECTOR SULLIVAN: Offices. 18 MR. McFARLAND: And I don't know that I've 19 been in a facility that doesn't have 20 double-celled -- you know, that's real nice. And 21 everywhere I saw, they were typically locked behind 22 them, so even if there wasn't a line of sight from the 334 1 CO into every single cell, the doors were closed and 2 locked. So anyway, you've done a superb job. 3 Ms. Chunn, do you have anything you wanted to 4 say? 5 MS. CHUNN: No. We really appreciate your 6 time. And I know some time it may have felt like, 7 these guys are really drilling down. But you know, if 8 we are to pass this information on and to really 9 capture the essence of when it works, why it works, 10 it's important for us to do it at this level of detail. 11 So we appreciate what you've done. 12 MR. McFARLAND: For the record, I need to get 13 somebody to verify that the turnover rate of your 14 staff -- and maybe Ms. Hill is the best person -- 15 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. 16 MR. McFARLAND: She is? 17 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I'll volunteer her. 18 MR. McFARLAND: Would you mind coming forward 19 for 30 seconds, Ms. Hill? And let me ask you two 20 questions. And you're still under oath. 21 Is it accurate that 15 of the 34 correctional 22 officers hired in '06 didn't see their first 335 1 anniversary in '07? 2 MS. HILL: That is correct. 3 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And the other question 4 is, wearing your hat as an investigator, and either you 5 or Mr. Clay could answer this, what is the standard of 6 proof, as you understand it, by which you determine 7 whether a sexual assault has occurred and whether it 8 should be referred up? 9 MS. HILL: If we suspect that it truly 10 happened, that it -- 11 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. But there's 12 always -- there's beyond a reasonable doubt. There's 13 reasonable suspicion. 14 No, she's got to answer this herself, Director 15 Dennis. 16 What's your understanding of the legal 17 standard? 18 MS. HILL: I remember when Director Sullivan 19 was answering the question. I thought, that's it. 20 That's the term that they use. 21 MR. McFARLAND: Reasonable suspicion? 22 MS. HILL: Reasonable suspicion. That would 336 1 be -- 2 MR. McFARLAND: That's your understanding? 3 MS. HILL: Yes. 4 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. And Mr. Clay, is that 5 your understanding? 6 MR. CLAY: Yes, it is. 7 MR. McFARLAND: Come on forward there. 8 MR. CLAY: Yes. We weigh the situation, the 9 credibility of the inmate and such. And if we have 10 reasonable suspicion, that's enough. 11 MR. McFARLAND: Well, that raises the very 12 interesting point that you learned in 2000 that inmates 13 may be victimized because they've lied to staff. And 14 so can there be a reasonable suspicion in your mind 15 even if no correctional officer witnessed the sexual 16 act and the complaining victim is a liar? 17 MR. CLAY: Yes. 18 MS. HILL: I would say that I think we learned 19 the hard way in 2000 about reasonable suspicion and 20 liability. 21 And on that same question, I'd like to say 22 that the lines of communication are very open with 337 1 Director Sullivan and Director Dennis during an 2 investigation. We're in touch with them all the time 3 getting guidance, advice. You know, we've interviewed 4 this person, and then Director Dennis might say, well, 5 we want you to interview him again or -- and 6 brainstorming and advice and open communication that 7 helps. 8 MR. McFARLAND: Can any of the four of you 9 consult a prosecutor, an outside attorney, criminal 10 prosecutor, if you have a question about the standard 11 of proof or whether this is something you ought to 12 refer up? Does Mr. Dennis or Mr. Sullivan or either of 13 the investigators ever do that? 14 MR. CLAY: I typically don't deal directly 15 with the prosecutor, but I deal with the sheriff's 16 investigator and the prosecutor's investigator. But 17 certainly, if we needed to contact them, we could. But 18 typically, we run it through law enforcement. They are 19 the ones that normally contact the prosecutor directly. 20 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I'd like to intervene if I 21 could. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 338 1 DIRECTOR DENNIS: I have an issue with the 2 premise of your question. Okay? The premise of your 3 question is filing charges. That's how this first 4 conversation got started. 5 MR. McFARLAND: The premise is that you can 6 refer a matter for consideration of filing of charges. 7 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Right. Now -- 8 MR. McFARLAND: That's my premise. 9 DIRECTOR DENNIS: -- the main goal of these 10 two investigators, they're facility investigators. The 11 investigator that's going to take charge of filing the 12 charges does not sit in this room. That's a Williams 13 County investigator. 14 MR. McFARLAND: Understood. 15 DIRECTOR DENNIS: My staff are concerned with 16 the preponderance of evidence, which is a much lower 17 standard. So I may be able to terminate somebody, but 18 they may not be able to prosecute them. 19 MR. McFARLAND: Okay. So it's not reasonable 20 suspicion. It's preponderance of the evidence that's 21 the standard? 22 DIRECTOR DENNIS: For the administrative 339 1 investigation. 2 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. 3 DIRECTOR DENNIS: We've already referred them 4 for a criminal investigation. We're doing this 5 simultaneously sometimes. 6 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. All right. So it's your 7 expectation that your investigators, if they have a 8 reasonable suspicion based on their investigation, that 9 they would recommend to you that it be referred for 10 consideration of the filing of criminal charges. Is 11 that correct? 12 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Right. 13 MR. McFARLAND: And that, simultaneously, if 14 they believe that it's beyond reasonable suspicion but 15 it's 50 percent plus, in other words, preponderance of 16 the evidence, that they would recommend to you that 17 disciplinary action be taken as well. Is that your 18 testimony? 19 DIRECTOR DENNIS: Correct. To include inmate 20 discipline, if that's -- depending on what type of 21 allegation it is. 22 MR. McFARLAND: Yes. All right. Well, we 340 1 will stand in recess. Thank you all very much, and 2 safe travels back. Hope you have some time in the 3 capital. Nice weather. 4 (Whereupon, at 4:48 p.m., the review panel was 5 concluded.) 6 * * * * * 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22