1 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF JUSTICE PROGRAMS REVIEW PANEL ON PRISON RAPE HEARINGS ON RAPE AND STAFF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT IN U.S. JAILS Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:00 a.m. - 5:25 p.m. U.S. Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs Building 810 7th Street, N.W. Main Conference Room Third Floor Washington, D.C. Diversified Reporting Services, Inc. (202) 467-9200 2 PARTICIPANTS: Review Panel Members: Steve McFarland, Director, Task Force for Faith-based and Community Initiatives, U.S. Department of Justice Carroll Ann Ellis, Director, Fairfax (Va.) County Police Department Victim Services Gwendolyn Chunn, Executive Director (Ret'd.), Juvenile Justice Institute, North Carolina Central University * * * * * Robert Ezell, Warden, Torrance County Detention Facility (TCDF) Joseph Corral, Unit Manager, TCDF Ralph Lucero, Shift Supervisor, TCDF Bruce Campbell, Health Services Administrator, TCDF Julianita Aragon, Classification Records Supervisor, TCDF Calvin Blue, Chief of Security, TCDF Juan Ibarra, Chief of Unit Management, TCDF Shannon McReynolds, New Mexico Department of Corrections Monitor 3 C O N T E N T S PAGE Introductory Remarks Remarks of Steve McFarland . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Remarks of Gwendolyn Chunn . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Remarks of Carroll Ann Ellis . . . . . . . . . . . 6 Opening Examination of Robert Ezell . . . . . . . . . . 7 Panel 1 Joseph Corral . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38, 147 Ralph Lucero . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38, 147 Panel 2 Julianita Aragon. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165 Bruce Campbell. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165 Panel 3 Calvin Blue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 217 Juan Ibarra . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 217 Panel 4 Shannon McReynolds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 286 Robert Ezell . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 287 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Good morning. My name is Steve 3 McFarland. It is my privilege to participate on the 4 Review Panel, on Prison Rape. This is a public hearing 5 pursuant to the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003. 6 Today we are seeking testimony on the common 7 characteristics of sexual predators, sexual assault 8 victims in jails, in this case a privately-owned jail, 9 also seeking to identify the characteristics of those 10 facilities that are evidently according to a BJS National 11 Inmate Survey least successful in deterring sexual 12 assault. 13 With me I am privileged to serve with Ms. Carroll 14 Ann Ellis, who is the Director of Victim Services for one 15 of the nation's largest prison police departments, Fairfax 16 County, Virginia, as well as on my right Ms. Gwendolyn 17 Chunn who has a distinguished career in corrections, past 18 president of the American Correctional Association and 19 with primary responsibility in North Carolina in the past 20 for juvenile justice. 21 With that, let me just say that the purpose of 22 this hearing is not to conduct a criminal investigation, 5 1 though we are talking about crime. It is not to shame any 2 particular institution. It is as I said to identify 3 characteristics, things that should or should not be done 4 for purposes of eliminating the incidents of sexual 5 assault in jails. The transcript will be made public, so 6 if there are any answers, any documents that should not be 7 made public, if you or your counsel would just indicate 8 and we will try to make sure that we segregate any such 9 documents. And Warden Ezell, I think you mentioned that 10 there may be some matters and that you were kind enough to 11 produce documents that were wholly responsive and may 12 include some private matters, and so we'll try to be 13 sensitive to that. 14 If at any time you don't understand a question or 15 you want to after finishing an answer on further 16 reflection want to modify or clarify your thoughts, please 17 do so. And with that, let me turn it over to my fellow 18 Panel members if they have any opening remarks. Ms. 19 Chunn. 20 MS. CHUNN: I would like to remind us as we begin 21 this initiative that we often see in this business that we 22 learn from our mistakes. And when we say that we often 6 1 say it, but we don't actually take the requisite action 2 that would back it up. This is an example. 3 I believe, of the federal government's intent to 4 make good on that notion that we can learn a lot from what 5 we have not been successful in doing and I'd like to 6 remind you that while that may be the case at any 7 particular moment, you do know that it always lies with 8 you to turn that around. And so I'd like to think that 9 the specificity that we will require here will not only 10 help you to focus on where you want to go, but also will 11 help other jurisdictions across the country, because that 12 is the important part of it. 13 So, I'd like to sort of make sure that we hold to 14 that spirit as Mr. McFarland has already said where do we 15 go from here in making improvements. So it's a pleasure 16 to have you here and it's a pleasure to be with you. 17 MS. ELLIS: Good morning, welcome. Thank you for 18 traveling this great distance to be here. Thank you for 19 your cooperation in what we are trying to do this morning 20 and I look forward to your testimony. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden Ezell, would you please 22 stand and raise your right hand, please? 7 1 Whereupon, 2 ROBERT EZELL 3 was called as a witness, and, having first been 4 duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you, sir. 6 Please state your full name and title for the 7 record, please. 8 MR. EZELL: My name is Robert Ezell and I am the 9 Warden of Torrance County Detention Facility. 10 EXAMINATION 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And how long, Warden Ezell, have 12 you been in that position? 13 MR. EZELL: I have been the Warden since the 16th 14 of April, 2007. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And was your facility the subject 16 of a national survey on August 27 to 30 of last year? 17 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, it was. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And were you involved in that 19 survey? 20 MR. EZELL: I was the warden at the time of the 21 survey, yes, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And you oversaw the 8 1 administration of the survey? 2 MR. EZELL: Correct. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And who among your staff were 4 also involved in that survey? 5 MR. EZELL: We had a large number of staff 6 involved in the survey. As you saw on the tour, we do not 7 have a lot of open movement. All of the inmates who took 8 the survey were escorted to and from the various survey 9 points, but our unit management team, Mr. Corral, our 10 chief of unit management, chief Ibarra, were very actively 11 involved in the logistics of getting the inmates from 12 point A to point B. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Ezell, if you have an opening 14 statement that you'd like to give, I shouldn't have 15 plunged right in to the questioning. We have your 16 statement and it can be entered verbatim into the record, 17 but feel free. The time is yours. 18 MR. EZELL: Thank you, sir. 19 Mr. Chairman, distinguished Panel members, thank 20 you for letting me make an opening statement. I know the 21 Warden normally testifies at the end. The chair said he 22 just jumped right into it there. 9 1 As I said, I am Robert Ezell, the Warden at 2 Torrance County. I am retired from the United States 3 Army, served approximately 10 years working in the Army 4 correction system. I have been working in private 5 corrections since January of 1991. I have approximately 6 28 years working in the correctional system dealing with 7 inmates from the four armed services, the federal Bureau 8 of Prisons, the State of North Carolina, and the State of 9 Oklahoma. 10 Torrance County Detention Facility is a 11 multi-jurisdictional facility serving the United States 12 Marshal Service, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and 13 the Torrance County Sheriff's Office as the Torrance 14 County Jail. Until recently, we also served the New 15 Mexico Corrections Department, the transfer of the New 16 Mexico Corrections Department inmates from Torrance County 17 was due to a New Mexico Corrections Department facility 18 opening in Clayton, New Mexico. 19 Although this hearing is focused on jail sexual 20 assault and misconduct issues, as you know the majority of 21 the inmates interviewed by the survey team were from our 22 long-term, New Mexico Corrections Department population, 10 1 a few from our Torrance County Sheriff's Office, and none 2 from our United States Marshal Service. 3 At this time I'd like to pass out to the Panel a 4 diagram of where the populations were housed during the 5 survey. The orange represents where the United States 6 Marshal Service inmates were housed. The blue is the New 7 Mexico Corrections Department, and the green is the unit 8 where our Torrance County Sheriff's Office inmates were 9 routinely housed. And I should note unit 4, which is 10 right under 5, is a female unit. We do have a small 11 36-bed female unit. 12 Since the survey was conducted, we have been 13 audited by the Office of the Federal Detention Trustee, 14 Immigrations and Custom Enforcement, our own company's 15 unannounced audit, the Commission on Accreditations for 16 Corrections and reaccredited by the American Correctional 17 Association. During all these audits, auditors spoke with 18 a wide cross-section of our population and did not receive 19 any feedback similar to what was reported on the survey. 20 Nevertheless, we have redoubled our efforts to 21 make as many reporting channels possible available to our 22 inmates and we have increased our education to our staff 11 1 and required training on the prevention of sexual 2 victimization and have reported to respond appropriately. 3 We are committed to and supportive of the Prison Rape 4 Elimination Act and its goal to eliminate sexual 5 victimization while incarcerated. It is a subject, which 6 is taught to our new staff during training and is covered 7 annually in our in-service. 8 Additionally, each inmate is now given 9 information during their initial orientation on sexual 10 abuse and misconduct and how they can report it to 11 facility staff. With our large number of Hispanic inmates 12 we give out an English version and a Spanish version of 13 this pamphlet on prevention of sexual abuse in prison, and 14 this is part of the 14-2 policy that you were given during 15 the tour, sir. But we do pass this out in orientation in 16 both English and Spanish to our population. 17 Since the survey results were published, we have 18 begun multiple initiatives to increase the awareness level 19 of our staff in preventing sexual victimization and the 20 education of our inmate population on actions available to 21 them. Staff initiatives include we have requested an 22 increase of 15 correctional officers in order to move 12 1 closer to being a direct supervision facility. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Have they been added, sir? 3 MR. EZELL: No, sir, they have not. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: But they have been authorized? 5 MR. EZELL: That we have requested them. We have 6 not got a final yes or no yet. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: From headquarters of CCA? 8 MR. EZELL: Correct. We have increased our staff 9 presence and availability in the units from the unit team. 10 All department heads and supervisory staff are in the 11 process of completing the National Institute of 12 Corrections to our e-learning PREA course. We have 13 developed a two-hour lesson plan on prevention of sexual 14 victimization and it's scheduled to be added to our 15 current requirements and has already been added to our 16 pre-service training for our new recruits, and we will put 17 it in our annual in-service requirements. 18 Inmate initiatives, we have established a hotline 19 number for which the inmates can dial to report any 20 information they want from any of the inmate phones 21 throughout the facility. We have increased a number of 22 posters throughout the facility concerning sexual 13 1 victimization. We have provided each inmate the 2 additional written information, which I handed the Panel 3 members on sexual victimization. 4 We are showing the National Institution of 5 Correction, discussing prison sexual abuse during 6 orientation and weekly on our movie channel. We have 7 attempted to provide the Commission all the materials and 8 information which had been requested. Today, we have 9 available various staff members to testify and provide 10 additional information and clarification. I appreciate 11 you allowing me this short opening statement, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you, Warden. 13 What is the rate of capacity of your institution? 14 MR. EZELL: Nine hundred ten inmates is the rate 15 of capacity, sir. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And what was the count yesterday? 17 MR. EZELL: The count as of approximately two 18 hours ago was 586. That's broken down 389 U.S. Marshal 19 Service, which includes nine females, 131 Immigration and 20 Custom Enforcement. And I should point out during the 21 survey we did not have long-term ICE detainees. We had 22 the short-term, less than 72 hours, so they did not play 14 1 a role in the survey. We have 57 Torrance County inmates 2 including seven females. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: So as I understand it, and I 4 should say most of our questioning is going to focus on 5 the day of the survey, so the state of the facility as of 6 August 27 through 30th last year. 7 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: So rather than my repeating that 9 preface, just assume that that's what our questioning is 10 about. Was there a zero tolerance policy towards sexual 11 assault at that time? 12 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, there was. Our company has 13 a zero tolerance policy of sexual assault, but we also 14 talk escapes, disturbances, hostage taking and unnatural 15 death. Those are the five zero tolerance topics that we 16 have company-wide. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And by company, are we referring 18 to the Corrections Corporation of America? 19 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, I am. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you have any idea how many 21 facilities CCA has? 22 MR. EZELL: My last count, I believe, was 63 or 15 1 64. I may be one or two off. I don't keep up with that 2 every day. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: No. And as of the date of the 4 survey, do you have the breakdown? I understand that U.S. 5 Marshal Service and ICE inmates did not participate in the 6 survey. Is that correct? 7 MR. EZELL: That is correct. They consisted of 8 the New Mexico inmates and our average population for NMCD 9 was about 210, and that fluctuated. And the Torrance 10 County population averages 40 to 45. 11 MS. ELLIS: Warden, I am interested in the size 12 of this facility. Because on the day of the survey there 13 was such a small percentage of Torrance County detainees, 14 was this facility envisioned from the beginning to serve 15 a number of different jurisdictions? I mean, how did it 16 come to be the size it is? 17 MR. EZELL: The original construction was 286 18 beds. As you're looking at the diagram, if you look at 19 the lower portion where you have unit 1 and the dorm, 20 kitchen, admin, and you go up to where unit 4 is, that's 21 basically the old construction, about 286 beds. In 1997 22 I believe it was they added units 5 through 8. The 16 1 facility has historically had a variety of populations 2 over time. They have had inmates from Puerto Rico, 3 Washington, D.C., New Mexico. Marshal Service has been 4 there I think from the beginning. I know a lot of the 5 history but I don't know all of the history of the 6 facility. 7 MS. ELLIS: But you have one single staff that 8 administers to all of the different populations? 9 MR. EZELL: Yes, ma'am, we do. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Did the New Mexico population 11 last August include sex offenders or sex predators? 12 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, it did. I do not have a 13 breakdown on what we had on confined the days of the 14 survey, but it was a cross-section of the New Mexico 15 Corrections Department, which would represent the entire 16 gamut of offenses and maybe I do not know if 17 Mr. McReynolds has that information or not, but I do not. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, we'll ask Mr. McReynolds. 19 So if I understand your testimony correctly, then the 20 places where survey participants were housed in late 21 August of '07 were units 5A, 5D, all of unit 6, as well as 22 1C. Is that correct? 17 1 MR. EZELL: Correct. And 5 Delta was a 2 segregation unit, but that was strictly for the New Mexico 3 Corrections Department inmates. That was a SEG unit, but 4 it was still an NMCD unit. That's why we mark it as such. 5 But yes, sir, unit 6, 5A, and 1 Charlie is where the 6 participants of the survey were from. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden, the Bureau of Justice 8 Statistics in its report of June of this year on sexual 9 victimization in local jails reported by inmates, that's 10 the result of a survey of 40,419 jail inmates last year. 11 In hundreds of jails across the country, the national 12 average indicated that 3.2% of those surveyed were victims 13 of some kind of sexual assault. 14 The survey found that with respect to your 15 facility, the percentage of inmates was over four times 16 the national average, 13.4% based on 67 respondents. Do 17 you as the warden acknowledge that at least as of August 18 of last year that your facility had a ways to go with 19 respect to preventing sexual assault? 20 MR. EZELL: Based on the statistics, yes, sir. 21 That's what they say. As I said in my testimony, we have 22 been looked at by various audit groups. Various auditors 18 1 have talked to our populations and we were not getting any 2 information up either through the independent audit 3 channels or anything we had heard, anything close to that. 4 But the statistics are what they are and they do indicate 5 we had a problem. And as I have said, we have acted on 6 that in taking steps to correct it. 7 MS. CHUNN: Warden, what has been the reaction of 8 staff to the report? 9 MR. EZELL: I can tell you what my reaction was. 10 Surprised is the nice way to put it, because again we were 11 getting no input from anywhere indicating we had such a 12 problem. Surprised, disappointed, shocked, whatever the 13 right word is. 14 MS. CHUNN: I see, but generally from your staff 15 what has the feedback been? What is the climate? What's 16 the reaction? 17 MR. EZELL: We all have taken it very seriously. 18 We all realize that we can do better than what we did in 19 August of 2007. We have implemented a variety of steps to 20 improve the communications, not only with the inmates by 21 making staff more available. The hotline number giving 22 them another option they can report not only sexual abuse 19 1 but anything they want. It's a recorded line. We test it 2 weekly. So, we know it works. We've taken it, we've 3 acted on it, and I think we're moving in the right 4 direction. 5 MS. CHUNN: Are you satisfied that your staff are 6 now becoming attuned and aware of sexual assault and the 7 concerns that victims have, the trauma that they 8 experience as a result of sexual assault? Is there a real 9 solid understanding of the issues surrounding this matter? 10 MR. EZELL: Yes, ma'am, there is. I can attest 11 to that. 12 MS. CHUNN: Warden, would you comment on the 13 role, if any, of the mixed populations in this facility, 14 how that mixture could have had some consequences or some 15 impact on this kind of a survey? 16 MR. EZELL: The population, even though we have 17 at the time of the survey, we had three distinct 18 populations. Our populations do not mix. Each population 19 is kept separate. Let me back up. Our Torrance County 20 inmates we are allowed by the Sheriff to mix with the 21 Marshal Service if we need to. We have found that it's 22 easier for us if we keep them housed together. 20 1 Now, we will have some spill-over. The unit 2 they're in is a 38-bed unit, so we may have some of them 3 living in another pod with U.S. Marshal inmates. But the 4 New Mexico Corrections Department inmates we were not 5 allowed by our contract to mix them at any time with any 6 other jurisdiction. We do not have a simple dining hall. 7 We satellite feed. So we feed in the units. We had 8 recreation separate, chapel separate, all of our 9 programming was separate with our New Mexico populations. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And as of August 27, is it 11 correct -- I'm just reading off the statistics that you've 12 provided me -- you had 211 from New Mexico, 211 males, 13 zero females. You had 519 males from the Marshal Service 14 and 21 females. And you had 32 County males and five 15 County females. Is that accurate? I can hand you these 16 documents, if it's helpful. 17 MR. EZELL: I have a breakdown. I've looked for 18 the same thing in my book, sir. Yes, sir, these numbers 19 are accurate. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And, for the record, the new 21 policy on sexual violence prevention and response that is 22 now applicable to your facility became effective September 21 1 18, 2008? 2 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. That was the facility 3 effective date was September 18 of this year. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And this is policy number 14-2. 5 It's a 10-page document? 6 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, it is. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And did this become effective 8 throughout CCA on June 16? 9 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, it did. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Shortly after the results 11 of the survey were announced? 12 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And did you have any part in you 14 personally in the drafting of any part of this document as 15 it applies to your facility? 16 MR. EZELL: The drafting of it, no. And you will 17 see in the document it has some boxes where it says at 18 this facility. That's the part that we had input in. We 19 completed those sections and then we sent it back to our 20 corporate headquarters for their approval, and that's why 21 you have a difference in the dates. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, and is it your understanding 22 1 that the powers that be in Nashville in CCA's headquarters 2 are attuned to the results of this survey and how it 3 reflects on one of their facilities? 4 MR. EZELL: Sir, I think I'm in a very good 5 position to sit here and tell you, yes. They are very 6 aware of the results of the survey. They take it serious. 7 I do not have the specifics in front of me. They 8 participated in NIC Moss Group-driven PREA policy 9 conference in developing this new policy. So, yes, sir, 10 they are taking it very serious. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and when did you make the 12 request for 15 additional correctional officers for your 13 facility? 14 MR. EZELL: I do not have a specific date off the 15 top of my head, sir. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, it was well prior to my 17 tour on the 8th. 18 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, it was. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Was it shortly after the 20 results of this survey were announced in June? 21 MR. EZELL: It would probably have been 30 to 45 22 days after the survey, somewhere in that time frame. 23 1 Again, I do not know the exact date off the top of my 2 head. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you asked Nashville for 4 15 additional officers in light of being named the 5 facility with the highest incidence of sexual assault. 6 Sometime in say mid-July, and we were about the first of 7 October and you still don't have a response from 8 Nashville? 9 MR. EZELL: I do not have a final response. That 10 is correct. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: But it's your testimony that 12 you're sure that CCA is real serious about zero tolerance 13 on sexual assault? 14 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. 15 MS. ELLIS: Warden, I know this question has 16 already been asked, but I have to go back to it again, and 17 that is with the incidence being as high as it is, I am 18 certain when you heard about it you probably wanted to 19 talk among your staffers about any insight that they could 20 have given you about that. 21 How can you explain the level of that? Now, I 22 know you've said other crediting bodies have been in, but 24 1 it seems to be often people don't specifically look at 2 sexual abuse and sexual assault, the same way we're doing 3 with PREA now. It's a very focused kind of thing, but I 4 am concerned about what explanation would staffers offer 5 as to why there's such a high level of incidence in this 6 facility. Can you share any insight about that? 7 MR. EZELL: I have to go back to what I've said 8 earlier. We were receiving no information from any of our 9 sources in the facility through the unit team, the case 10 managers, correctional counselors, their daily contact 11 with inmates. We were receiving no information that the 12 numbers were as the survey reported. We were shocked. 13 MS. ELLIS: So you were completely blind to that? 14 MR. EZELL: Yes, to say the least. That's a nice 15 way to put it. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden, what explanation do you 17 have for those numbers? 18 MR. EZELL: I really don't. And I can sit here 19 and speculate. I can try to get into the minds of the 20 inmates why they would answer the questions the way they 21 did, but I don't know. I honestly do not know. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you believe that your facility 25 1 has a ways to go in reducing and preventing sexual 2 assault? 3 MR. EZELL: If I have one, that's one too many. 4 So, and again, I go back. Just some things like you 5 pointed out; they went into the storeroom in food service 6 and the storeroom in medical on windows. We're putting 7 windows in there. A different set of eyes sees things 8 differently. We have talked about when you were there we 9 have a camera upgrade project. We are adding 15 cameras 10 to include the dry storage room. 11 We are trying to be as proactive as we can, given 12 the 13.4% without any corresponding information coming up 13 through our channels. We're taking it serious. I'm 14 saying okay, it is what it is. Now, how can we fix it? 15 How can we reduce the numbers? We educate staff. We 16 educate inmates. We've taken some of those physical plant 17 ideas that you gave us on the windows. Like I said, if I 18 have one, it's one too many. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you think you've had at least 20 one last year? 21 MR. EZELL: I can sit here and tell you we 22 probably did. 26 1 MR. MCFARLAND: And those extra cameras, have 2 those been approved by headquarters? 3 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. Well, let me back up. 4 They're in my 2009 capital expenditure request. They have 5 been approved. I did get the final Cap Ex last week, and 6 the camera upgrade is on it. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And how many new cameras will you 8 get? 9 MR. EZELL: I believe it's 15. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Are those stationary or tilt and 11 zoom? 12 MR. EZELL: I do not know the details. 13 MS. CHUNN: Warden, in relation to your training, 14 aside from education about sexual assault that it's a 15 violation of human rights, it's against the law, it's 16 damaging, it's demeaning, what kind of training do you 17 have for staff that helps them to understand ethical 18 behavior? 19 What standard do you have for helping staff to 20 rise to a level of professionalism that would afford them 21 the tools that they need to ensure that their behavior is 22 meeting an ethical standard at all times? So what do you 27 1 do with ethics? 2 MR. EZELL: Our company has an ethics policy and 3 a code of conduct that all staff are trained on. I 4 personally teach, and I know one hour isn't much, but I 5 teach a one-hour course on professionalism and ethics. I 6 want my new staff to hear it from me what my expectations 7 are, what my level of performance is. I want them to hear 8 it from me what the consequences are if they cross the 9 line. 10 I think the warden needs to be part of the 11 training where he or she has that eyeball to eyeball 12 contact with the new staff early on in their training. So 13 they hear it from the boss, if you will. This is the 14 level of performance in the area of ethics 15 professionalism, inmate-staff relationship that's 16 required. 17 MS. CHUNN: And one more general question about 18 the diversity within your facility. Now, you're located 19 in New Mexico, and you've got a large population of 20 Spanish-speaking individuals there. What else makes up 21 the racial and ethnicity? 22 MR. EZELL: Of staff or inmates? 28 1 MS. CHUNN: Cultures within your facility? 2 MR. EZELL: We have probably over half of our 3 population is Hispanic. I have a large number of Hispanic 4 staff, approximately 21% of my staff is bilingual, because 5 we do have, especially in the Marshal population, some 6 inmates who speak very, very little English. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: According to the tally you gave 8 me, on August 27, of the 211 New Mexico inmates, 114 were 9 Hispanic. Is that accurate? 10 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And among the other population 12 participated in the survey, namely the Torrance County 13 males, of the 32, 11 were Hispanic. Is that correct? 14 MR. EZELL: Say that again, sir? 15 MR. MCFARLAND: How many Torrance County males 16 were Hispanic of the 32 on August 27 last year? 17 MR. EZELL: I have eight Hispanics, one black on 18 my male population in Torrance County. I had 26, and this 19 is on August 27th, I had 26 males, 17 Caucasians. And 20 that's pretty close. Each day of the survey, as you know 21 in the jail population it continually turns over, and 22 especially with our accounting inmates. But the numbers 29 1 are fairly consistent. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: What's the average length of stay 3 in your facility as of August of last year? 4 MR. EZELL: I will find out. I want to say it's 5 93 days. Average length of stay? I can break it down by 6 population, and the New Mexico population, the average 7 length of stay was 724 days. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: That's the population that's no 9 longer there? 10 MR. EZELL: Correct. And that was my long-term 11 population. The Marshal Service average length of stay 12 for males was 526 days. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: ICE wasn't there? There were no 14 long-term ICE. Is that right? 15 MR. EZELL: No, sir, all we had at that time was 16 less than 72 hours. The Marshal females was 521 days; 17 Torrance County male, 403. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: So you had a vast majority. This 19 was not a 90-day average turnover. You had a lot of 20 long-term inmates or residents at the time of the survey. 21 Is that correct? 22 MR. EZELL: Some of my Marshal inmates, as the 30 1 figures indicate, have been with us for quite a while. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: But the Marshal Service didn't 3 participate in the survey? 4 MR. EZELL: Correct. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: But the 724 state prisoners did. 6 Is that correct? 7 MR. EZELL: That's the average length of stay. 8 And on the 27th through the 30th, I was running 207, 206, 9 202, is a population on my NMCD inmates on the New Mexico 10 inmates. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And were you running close to 12 capacity at the time? 13 MR. EZELL: No, sir. We were only at my average, 14 764 with my average for those four or five days the survey 15 team was there, my average numbers. 16 MS. CHUNN: Warden, was there a reason that the 17 Marshal Service did not participate in the survey? 18 MR. EZELL: No, ma'am. When we have a survey 19 like this or any outside agency come in and request to 20 talk to a jurisdiction, we go back to that jurisdiction 21 and say please advise us. Do you want your population to 22 take part or not? And they told us no. 31 1 MS. CHUNN: Okay. I'm trying to distinguish if 2 there are, because you have these different populations. 3 If there are differences in how they function in the 4 facility, I mean, can you expect the New Mexico group to 5 be a more difficult group to manage rather than the 6 Torrance County detainees or the Marshal Service. Are 7 there factors that distinguish them as they are there in 8 the facility? 9 MR. EZELL: Yes, ma'am. There are factors. Mr. 10 McReynolds may be able to articulate some of the specifics 11 on the New Mexico Corrections Department. 12 MS. CHUNN: Well, I'll hold that question if 13 you'd rather have somebody else that's going to testify. 14 MR. EZELL: Well, I think Shannon's probably more 15 knowledgeable of it, but the New Mexico inmates were our 16 long-term population. 17 MS. CHUNN: Right. 18 MR. EZELL: They had many incentives by their 19 good conduct, time to get up, go to work, go to school, 20 much more incentives to be actively involved in 21 programming than my Marshal population does. They don't 22 have some of those carrots, if you will, that the New 32 1 Mexico population had. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: With such a long average length 3 of stay during the time of the survey, what kind of 4 programming was available to the state and the county 5 inmates? 6 MR. EZELL: We have a fully functional education 7 department. We have a vocational training class. We have 8 a print shop. How we ran that operation over there and in 9 our education again, keeping all the populations separate, 10 and that's one of the biggest challenges is don't mix the 11 populations. 12 We had a morning session five days a week in 13 education for our New Mexico population and the afternoon 14 session, five days a week, was for our Marshal population, 15 and we could put some County inmates in with that. We 16 have a fully functional religious program. We have about 17 75 religious volunteers. We are in a very sparsely 18 populated county of 15,000; volunteers are very hard to 19 come by. 20 I'd like to have 150 or 200, but we're working on 21 that. So we do everything we can to keep our population 22 gainfully employed. I would much rather have inmates, 33 1 detainees come home at the end of the day with their 2 tongue hanging out because they've been in school all day. 3 They've been in recreation all day. They've been in 4 programs all day. They've been in activities all day, and 5 they're tired. I'd much rather have that than sitting 6 around twiddling my thumbs all day. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. What percentage of the 8 state and county inmates in August of '07 had access on 9 any given day to any of the programming you just 10 described, either the education, the print shop, or chapel 11 services? 12 MR. EZELL: With the New Mexico population that 13 would depend on their case plan and what, if they did not 14 have a GED, then they would be mandated by New Mexico 15 policy to attend education classes. But those were 16 available to the population. I do not have a percentage. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Was there a waiting list? 18 MR. EZELL: I do not know. I do not recall. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Who would be most knowledgeable 20 about the programming in August of last year? 21 MR. EZELL: Chief Ibarra may have some additional 22 information and insight on that. 34 1 MS. CHUNN: Warden, it seems to me that 2 preventing sexual assault and victimization is a safety 3 and security issue? 4 MR. EZELL: Yes, ma'am. 5 MS. CHUNN: That's my own bias about that. 6 MR. EZELL: Yes, ma'am. 7 MS. CHUNN: And I might add, I'm glad you see it 8 that way too. Talk to me about how your efforts to 9 address sexual assault and victimization fit into your 10 larger vision of what it is you want to accomplish at the 11 Torrance facility. 12 MR. EZELL: I guess I have a high standard -- I 13 want a safe facility -- for my staff. I want a safe 14 facility for the men and women who are entrusted to our 15 care. That means we owe them a safe place to live, safe 16 from physical assault, sexual assault, intimidation, all 17 the things that can happen when you have 900 men and women 18 living together in close proximity. I think that's 19 probably the only way I can answer that. I want a safe 20 facility for everybody, not just staff, not just inmates. 21 I want it where everyone goes home at night either goes 22 back to their cell at night or goes to their house and 35 1 they are in the same condition, mentally, physically, 2 emotionally, that they started the day in. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden, just one last question. 4 In August of '07 the New Mexico population mean their 5 average length of stay was almost two years. I take it 6 these were not pretrial detainees. These were all 7 sentenced convicts. Is that correct? 8 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. Our New Mexico population 9 was all level 3. They are medium-custody convicted felons 10 who had been through the reception process with the New 11 Mexico Corrections Department, and they were not pretrial 12 at all. They were long-term, convicted felons. Yes, sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And the Torrance County inmates, 14 the 37 as of the time of the survey, were they pretrial 15 detainees? They had an average length of stay of 403 16 days. Were these misdemeanants? Were these felons, or 17 were these pretrial detainees? 18 MR. EZELL: Probably a mix of misdemeanants and 19 pretrial. If they were convicted as a felon, then they 20 would roll over to the corrections department. 21 MS. CHUNN: Warden, did you have occasion to have 22 some of those inmates from New Mexico that were being 36 1 housed in your facility? Do they have to be reviewed and 2 reclassified? In other words, did you have to return 3 anyone because they needed a higher level of security and 4 custody? 5 MR. EZELL: I am not a classification expert and 6 I would let Chief Ibarra answer that question in much more 7 detail than I can, but yes, ma'am. We did a scheduled 8 review, classification review on all of the NMCD inmates. 9 Some we recommended for a lower cost, minimum custody. 10 Other based on their conduct, their actions, we may be 11 recommending to a level four which was an increase. So 12 they were both from level 3, a continual moving, either 13 going up or going down. 14 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And in '07 how many individuals 16 passed through your facility? 17 MR. EZELL: In 2007 we had a total of 9,227. We 18 had 4,628 admissions, 4,599 releases. We are ahead of 19 that track record for this year too. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Now other than asking CCA 21 headquarters for some additional staff, 15 COs, which you 22 haven't heard from them back on, and asking for additional 37 1 video cameras, which I guess you have been granted? 2 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you made any other requests 4 of CCA relative to preventing sexual assault? 5 MR. EZELL: No, sir. Not as a request for this 6 or that. We've had numerous conversations as I said, I 7 firmly believe that the facility support center at the 8 National Headquarters takes this subject very serious. I 9 know in my conversations with them they do. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Are any of their representatives 11 present here? 12 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, my supervisor, Ronald 13 Thompson. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Anyone else from 15 headquarters? 16 MR. EZELL: No, sir, not to my knowledge. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, well, we'll have more 18 questioning on the last panel, Warden. I want to thank 19 you for your time, and at this time we'll call the next 20 panel, Mr. Joe Corral, and Captain Ralph Lucero, please. 21 Good morning gentlemen. 22 MR. LUCERO: Good morning. 38 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Please raise your right hands. 2 Whereupon, 3 JOSEPH CORRAL and RALPH LUCERO 4 were called as witnesses and, having been first 5 duly sworn, were examined and testified as follows: 6 EXAMINATION 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. Mr. Corral, am I 8 mispronouncing your name? 9 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And is there an appropriate rank 11 that I should address you? Is it Captain Corral? 12 MR. CORRAL: Unit manager is fine. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Unit manager Corral. Mr. Corral, 14 could you state your full name and title for the record? 15 MR. CORRAL: Joseph Corral, unit manager. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And how long have you been unit 17 manager at this Torrance County Facility? 18 MR. CORRAL: Since approximately 2001. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And were you present in that 20 capacity in the end of August of '07 when this survey was 21 taken? 22 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 39 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you oversaw units 6 2 and 5 at the time. Is that correct? 3 MR. CORRAL: That's correct. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, and that was where the 5 New Mexico state inmates who participated in the survey 6 were housed. Is that correct? 7 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Good morning, Capt. 9 Lucero. Would you please state your full name and title? 10 MR. LUCERO: My name is Captain Ralph Lucero. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And how long have you worked at 12 the facility? 13 MR. LUCERO: I've been in corrections since 14 October of '97. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And how long have you been at 16 Torrance County facility? 17 MR. LUCERO: Almost 11 years. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And what positions have you had 19 in that facility? 20 MR. LUCERO: I've been a senior correctional 21 officer, a lieutenant, STG coordinator, armory officer, 22 disciplinary hearing officer, disciplinary investigator. 40 1 MR. MCFARLAND: What training did you get as 2 disciplinary investigator? 3 MR. LUCERO: Just a regular 40 hours that we get, 4 and then when I had OJT, when I was OJT'd by the old 5 investigators just on how to talk to the inmates, ask them 6 questions, find out about the truth, or about the 7 disciplinary report. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: So you mean on the job training? 9 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And the 40 hours, is that 11 just on how to become an investigator, or are you talking 12 about 40 hours in the academy or what? 13 MR. LUCERO: When I went through the New Mexico 14 Department of Corrections 40 hours of STG investigations 15 on how to interview gang members, how to recognize 16 tattoos, stuff of that nature. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And STG stands for? 18 MR. LUCERO: Security Threat Group. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, Security Threat Group. And 20 how did that training to be an STG investigator, was there 21 anything additional that trained you to do to be a 22 disciplinary investigator? 41 1 MR. LUCERO: No. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Having done both, what's 3 the difference? 4 MR. LUCERO: Disciplinary investigator, you just 5 investigate the disciplinary reports that inmates pick up 6 at the facility and being a security threat group 7 investigator is different, because you're trying to find 8 gang members. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And so were you doing any 10 investigations in say the year prior to August of '07? 11 MR. LUCERO: No. No, sir. I was a shift 12 supervisor or captain. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And so when did you become 14 disciplinary investigator? 15 MR. LUCERO: That was a long time ago. That was 16 before I became captain, around '99. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Are you familiar with the 18 new sexual assault policy, 14-2, that became effective at 19 your facility on September 18th? 20 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And what do you expect your 22 officers to know about this policy? Are they supposed to 42 1 be trained in it? 2 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Who does the training? 4 MR. LUCERO: The training manager. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And who is that? 6 MR. LUCERO: Howard King. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is Howard King's, what 8 are his qualifications, if you know, to train? 9 MR. LUCERO: I don't know, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And is that somebody who 11 is on staff at Torrance County or is that somebody from 12 Nashville? 13 MR. LUCERO: He is on staff at Torrance. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Have you had occasion to 15 use the screening tool, 14-2B as in boy that is attached 16 to the new policy? 17 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Have you received any 19 training on how to use that screening tool? 20 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Have those under your command 22 received any training on how to use that tool? 43 1 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Have you ever seen it? 3 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 4 MS. CHUNN: Okay. Captain, could you talk about 5 your responsibilities and your job function? 6 MR. LUCERO: My responsibilities? 7 MS. CHUNN: Yes, I'm not entirely clear in terms 8 of the investigatory portion. 9 MR. LUCERO: That was in the past. 10 MS. CHUNN: I see. 11 MR. LUCERO: Now, I'm just a shift supervisor. 12 I'm on the administrative schedule now, so I'm the relief 13 captain. If any captain takes off from the day shift or 14 the night shift, I cover their shift. 15 MS. CHUNN: I see. How many captains? How many 16 captains are there in the facility? 17 MR. LUCERO: Five; one for each day shift and 18 then the relief. 19 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. 20 MS. ELLIS: Capt. Lucero, what do you say to your 21 staff about this new policy, even though you haven't had 22 the training yet. I imagine you've had occasion to talk 44 1 to them at least about policies when they come out. Do 2 you issue those policies to them? 3 MR. LUCERO: Yes, ma'am. We bring them up in 4 briefing all the time. 5 MS. ELLIS: Okay. What have you said to them 6 about this one, the importance of this one? 7 MR. LUCERO: To take it serious, that it is for 8 real. It's the difference between having a safe facility 9 and not a safe facility. Be more visual in the back. 10 Conduct more security checks on a regular basis, or an 11 irregular basis so the inmates don't get use to our 12 timing. That it's important to have a safe facility. 13 MS. ELLIS: What have you said to them about your 14 expectations about information that you believed should 15 come to you? 16 MR. LUCERO: Everything. I instructed my staff 17 to advise me of everything that happens on a daily basis. 18 I have a lieutenant who works under me and a sergeant who 19 works under me. They are to advise them of anything. 20 Then my lieutenant and my sergeant both know to let me 21 know anything that happens. 22 MS. ELLIS: And what steps do you take to make 45 1 sure that that's happening? 2 MR. LUCERO: I conduct security rounds throughout 3 the day, if I'm on the day shift, or the night if I'm on 4 the night shift. And I talk to the staff, ask them 5 questions. How is everything going. Ask them scenario 6 questions. I'm just in their business all day. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain, what's your 8 understanding of the definition of sexual assault? 9 MR. LUCERO: Sexual assault is either a staff 10 member or inmate on inmate on consensual sex, or 11 consensual sex, or use. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, but if a couple of inmates 13 consent to being romantic with each other, does that 14 violate the CCA sexual abuse policy? 15 MR. LUCERO: If it's a disciplinary part, they'll 16 receive a disciplinary part, correct. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is that a crime? 18 MR. LUCERO: At first they will all be treated as 19 crimes until determined otherwise. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And who decides whether 21 it's a chargeable crime? 22 MR. LUCERO: The facility investigator. 46 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and who is that? 2 MR. LUCERO: Michael Varnum, assistant warden of 3 operations. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Varnum's not here today. Is 5 that right? 6 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And Mr. Varnum was the 8 investigator as of the date of the survey? 9 MR. LUCERO: I believe so, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: This question is directed to both 11 of you. What is the profile? What are the 12 characteristics in your experience of an inmate in your 13 facility who is more at risk than the general population, 14 more at risk of sexual assault? Who is the victim waiting 15 to happen? 16 MR. LUCERO: Smaller inmates, inmates who do not 17 stand up for themselves, have self-confidence problems. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: What about gang affiliation? Is 19 that relevant if they're not a gang member? 20 MR. LUCERO: It could be; I mean, if you're not 21 a gang member. If you're a gang member no one is going to 22 mess with you because you have a bunch of people with you, 47 1 so it can play a role. But, it can happen to anybody. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral? 3 MR. LUCERO: It could be new arrivals to the 4 facility, individuals that have small structure as 5 mentioned, financial funds. It could be anybody. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: In other words if they have some 7 commissary money they might be targeted? 8 MR. LUCERO: Correct. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What are other 10 characteristics in your experience of those who are more 11 likely than your average inmate to be somebody you're 12 going to want to keep an eye out for? 13 MR. LUCERO: You mean have mental issues? 14 MR. CORRAL: Same sex preferences. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: So sexual orientation is 16 relevant? 17 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Work received, homosexuality; 19 does the word get around pretty quickly in your facility, 20 who is effeminate, who might be gay? 21 MR. LUCERO: In my experience with homosexuals we 22 have had at our facility, you could tell. You didn't have 48 1 to say anything. Everybody knew as soon as they came in. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that your experience, 3 Mr. Corral? 4 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 5 MS. ELLIS: Would these characteristics hold true 6 for males and females, or would there be some distinctions 7 in terms of females who might be vulnerable to sexual 8 assault? 9 Mr. LUCERO: In my experience as a shift 10 supervisor, a lot of them are the same, but there is 11 different ones for females because male inmates, more or 12 less, are trying to be tough. Female inmates don't try to 13 be tough. They cry to each other all the time about 14 stuff. Male inmates usually don't volunteer information, 15 and female inmates volunteer information. They will tell 16 another female about their charges, their case. They miss 17 their children and then they just try to get a bond 18 together and they bond faster than males do. 19 MS. ELLIS: And is it your understanding and your 20 experience that females are more apt to report sexual 21 assault than males? 22 MR. LUCERO: I believe so. I mean, in my 49 1 opinion, to me, I haven't had any reported to me at all. 2 But I could see how females would report it faster than 3 males would. 4 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Corral, your opinion? 5 MR. CORRAL: I have never worked with females. 6 It's always been male, but I would assume that it is 7 correct and there would be a lot of similarities. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Gentlemen, I am handing you 9 14-2B, which was produced by your facility. It's a 10 one-page screening tool on sexual assault. Have you ever 11 seen this before? 12 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 13 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Captain, I think you 15 testified that you have not had occasion to use it or be 16 trained in it. Is that correct? 17 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. I haven't used it at all. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: How about you, Mr. Corral, have 19 you been trained in the use of this? 20 MR. LUCERO: It has been reviewed, yes. My staff 21 also, we've all reviewed it. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, you'll notice in the 50 1 other half of the document there's a list of 2 characteristics. Does that refresh your recollection as 3 to what are the characteristics of sexual assault victims, 4 those more vulnerable to sexual assault? 5 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 6 MR. CORRAL: I believe that goes in conjunction 7 with the answers, yes, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is there anything in that 9 list that you disagree with or that you'd want to add to 10 or clarify or reword? I'm just trying to understand what 11 your experience has been, so just because it's in that 12 document doesn't mean you have to agree with it. What do 13 you think of that list? It talks about being a loner, 14 being mentally challenged, et cetera. 15 MR. CORRAL: I believe it's definitely a step in 16 the right direction and I agree with all the questions 17 that are there. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain? 19 MR. LUCERO: Frankly, sir, I do, sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you add anything to that, 21 that you'd want your staff to be trained in or to be 22 attuned to in addition to those characteristics if you're 51 1 serious about preventing sexual assault? 2 MR. LUCERO: I think sexual preference would be 3 cool on there. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: I don't suppose you have any idea 5 why sexual preference isn't listed there? 6 MR. LUCERO: No, sir, I don't. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: You weren't consulted in the 8 drafting of this. Mr. Corral, did you have anything to do 9 with any part of the drafting of 14-2, the new sexual 10 violence prevention and response policy? 11 MR. LUCERO: As far as physically writing 12 anything down, no thoughts were asked. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: You participated in a discussion 14 about it? 15 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And did you participate in the 17 discussion of what would go in the boxes that are 18 facility-specific in this policy? 19 MR. LUCERO: I wasn't that involved in it, but 20 was asked. 21 MS. CHUNN: Unit manager Corral and Capt. Lucero, 22 have you worked more than one unit in the facility? 52 1 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 2 MS. CHUNN: You rotate, sort of, right? 3 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 4 MS. CHUNN: Is that correct? 5 MR. LUCERO: Shifts, yes. 6 MS. CHUNN: If you just heard, you walked in to 7 work and you heard there'd been a sexual assault in the 8 facility, where would you think it had occurred? Let me 9 clean that up. Where do you think it would have occurred? 10 I used to be a language teacher so it matters to me. 11 (Laughter.) 12 MR. CORRAL: I believe, like the warden had 13 mentioned, sometimes a fresh pair of eyes. 14 MS. CHUNN: Yeah, I'm asking for a guess, just 15 based on your knowing the facility having worked it. 16 Where would you think before you got the details on it. 17 Where would you guess? You know, when you get news like 18 that, it immediately goes to your head about where it 19 could have happened. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Where is the riskiest place in 21 your facility? If you were a predator, where would you 22 think it would be safest to try to pull it off. 53 1 MR. LUCERO: The culinary, kitchen. 2 MS. CHUNN: Culinary, hm-hmm. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Where about, specifically? 4 MR. LUCERO: I don't have a specific area, but 5 that would be the best place if I was a predator. I've 6 seen the culinary. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: What about the dry storage room? 8 Are you familiar with the kitchen, sir? 9 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. I'm just trying to 10 visualize it. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Large room? 12 MR. LUCERO: Yeah. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: No camera? 14 MR. LUCERO: That would be it. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Tall aisles? 16 MR. LUCERO: We're fixing it though, but yeah. 17 That would be a good spot. 18 MR. CORRAL: Cells. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: In the cells. 20 MS. ELLIS: And what about the laundry room? 21 MR. LUCERO: No, ma'am. Our laundry room has 22 four windows in it, an officer posted in the laundry at 54 1 all times. 2 MS. ELLIS: I see. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral, in unit 6, which is 4 where the New Mexico inmates used to be housed, isn't it 5 true the stairways are -- create a blind spot for such 6 activity? 7 MR. CORRAL: It's possible. They are solid. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. They're solid, you can't 9 see through the steps? 10 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And when the state inmates 12 were present last year, how many correctional officers did 13 you have in the daytime shift in unit 6? 14 MR. CORRAL: I had two assigned to unit 6, 15 control officer, and I had correctional case managers, 16 correctional counselors, and myself. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And just numbering them, 18 how many correctional officers did you have stationed in 19 each of the pods of unit 6? 20 MR. CORRAL: Stationed inside the pod, zero. 21 They would rove from pod to pod. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And was anyone also 55 1 stationed in control to observe the four pods, 6A through 2 6D? 3 MR. CORRAL: We had one person in the control 4 center. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And that individual, was that a 6 correction officer or a technician? 7 MR. CORRAL: A correctional officer. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: And was he or she responsible for 9 also monitoring the videos? 10 MR. CORRAL: There are no videos in that control 11 center, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. There are videos in 5. Is 13 that correct? 14 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: There are none. So it's your 16 testimony that there were only indirect supervision of the 17 state inmates in unit 6 last year. Is that correct? 18 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And that would be a single rover 20 or two rovers? 21 MR. CORRAL: Two were assigned to the 5, 6 floor, 22 yes. 56 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And we're talking about 2 how many inmates in each of those four pods, 38 to 40 in 3 each pod? 4 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: So you had two COs roving among 6 approximately 160 state inmates who were doing an average 7 of two years' incarceration. Is that correct? 8 MR. CORRAL: Well, throughout the day there was 9 a lot of programming offered as far as educational 10 services. We had kitchen pods specifically designed for 11 individuals to work in the culinary department and 12 throughout the day inmates were attending different 13 programs. They were working, so the counts would be less 14 in the pods, but yes. Two officers would conduct their 15 rounds. 16 MS. CHUNN: There would be people on the pod who 17 were not in those activities. Is that correct? 18 MR. CORRAL: I'm sorry? 19 MS. CHUNN: There would be people on the pod who 20 were not in activities. Is that correct? 21 MR. CORRAL: That's correct. 22 MS. CHUNN: During the day? 57 1 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Now you have two 12-hour shifts. 3 Is that correct? 4 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And that was the case last 6 August? 7 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. During the day shift, how 9 many of the state inmates were participating at any time 10 in the culinary activities outside the pod? And any given 11 time, could you have 10, 12? 12 MR. CORRAL: Yeah, approximately 20 to 30. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. At any one time? 14 MR. CORRAL: At any one time. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: So of the 160 in unit 6, there 16 were approximately 20 who could be in the kitchen at any 17 one time? 18 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: How many were in the GED 20 training, the mandatory GED training? 21 MR. CORRAL: It fluctuated depending whether 22 inmates were ILP-mandated or whether they were requesting 58 1 to go voluntarily. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: So what was the actual 3 approximate count during the day shift? 4 MR. CORRAL: I'm not certain right now, sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, was it a dozen or was it 6 150? 7 MR. CORRAL: It definitely exceeded a dozen. I 8 couldn't tell you if it was 150, sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: You couldn't tell me whether out 10 of 160 inmates, 150 of them were not in the pod at the 11 time? I'm not trying to nail you on was it 85 or 86. I'm 12 just trying to get a general idea of how many folks were 13 still in the pod doing a lot of nothing during the day. 14 MR. CORRAL: It was definitely probably in excess 15 of 50 or more, around the hundred margin, or less. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you think the 17 programming in August of '07 was adequate to keep the 18 state inmates busy and challenged in the way that the 19 warden described he'd like them to be with their tongues 20 hanging out at the end of the day? 21 MR. CORRAL: I believe so. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, the warden passed out a 59 1 brochure in two languages entitled, "Preventing Sexual 2 Abuse and Misconduct," and it's labeled 14-2AA. Have you 3 seen this document? 4 MR. CORRAL: Yes, I have. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did this come out? 6 MR. CORRAL: I believe it was right around the 7 same time as the policy. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, so June of '08. Is that 9 correct? 10 MR. CORRAL: I believe so. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So this was not available 12 to inmates in August of '07? 13 MR. CORRAL: Not to my recollection. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain, do you? 15 MR. LUCERO: Not to my recollection. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Are you familiar with what 17 inmates were told during orientation? And I'm focused on 18 the New Mexico and Torrance County inmates in '07. What 19 were they told about sexual assault or do you know? 20 MR. LUCERO: I don't know. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral? 22 MR. CORRAL: The only thing as far as Torrance 60 1 County, I'm not really certain. I know the New Mexico 2 corrections inmates, they start off at a reception and 3 diagnostic center at another facility where they go 4 through an intake process and screening. And then they 5 arrived to our facility and an introduction is done, and 6 just probably a verbal orientation. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you ever viewed the lesson 8 plan or the video, or anything, any handouts that were 9 given in '07 concerning sexual assault to new arrivals? 10 MR. CORRAL: I believe those questions were asked 11 on the mental health department screening forms. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: So you weren't involved in the 13 orientation? 14 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Are you involved now in any of 16 the orientation of inmates on your unit? 17 MR. CORRAL: Scanning paperwork more and 18 follow-ups. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. Scanning paperwork or 20 do you mean distributing these brochures? 21 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. Looking at the paperwork 22 with the classification staff. 61 1 MR. MCFARLAND: I see. 2 MS. ELLIS: Well, when do the inmates get the 3 brochure? Do they get them when they first come in now 4 and are they readily available at all times? Is this part 5 of the orientation now that you have this brochure? 6 MR. CORRAL: I believe it's done upon intake, 7 yes. 8 MS. ELLIS: And do prisoners have an opportunity 9 to ask questions and full explanations regarding terms? 10 MR. CORRAL: They have the availability to ask 11 the questions. We have also eliminated our open office 12 hours for the case managers. And now, they go into the 13 pods for lengthier times, both in the morning and in the 14 afternoon, so that they are more available to the inmate 15 population as well as myself. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: For how long are the case 17 managers supposed to be in the pods each day? 18 MR. CORRAL: We have them right now, two hours in 19 the morning, two hours in the afternoon. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And that was not the case at the 21 time of the survey. Is that right? 22 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 62 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So that's one of the changes that 2 the warden has instituted? 3 MR. CORRAL: More time. 4 MS. CHUNN: You gentlemen are both seasoned 5 veterans and I'm going back to a question I asked the 6 warden. You're closer to the detailed population, no 7 matter which of the three categories they belong to. Tell 8 me what is your best guess about why the incidence was 9 reported as high as it is. I want a guess. Tell me what 10 you think may explain why it was reported that way, since 11 you have no indication. What do you think is going on? 12 MR. CORRAL: I really don't know. I don't know 13 why we were so high. I mean, we can't argue that we're 14 not. The numbers are the numbers. We're just going to 15 fix them, do everything that we can to bring it down. I 16 don't know. 17 MR. LUCERO: I was totally taken by surprise. On 18 a daily basis, I believed that if it was occurring there 19 would have been a lot of indications, a lot of signs. I 20 was taken by surprise. But I do believe that it does need 21 to be taken seriously and we are using that as a tool to 22 better manage our units. 63 1 MR. MCFARLAND: In August of '07 were the state 2 inmates double-celled or triple-celled? 3 MR. CORRAL: Double-celled. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Are they now single-celled? 5 Well, no. Unit 6 is empty, is that right? 6 MR. LUCERO: Correct. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And in 5A and 5D where they were 8 located, are they single-celled now? 9 MR. LUCERO: There are no in the state of New 10 Mexico inmates there now. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: You're right. Who's in 5A now? 12 Are those ICE? 13 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And how about 5D? 15 MR. LUCERO: They're United States Marshals 16 lockdown segregation. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And are either of you familiar 18 with the layout in 1C where the Torrance County inmates 19 are? 20 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral, you don't have 22 occasion to be there? 64 1 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Captain, is there a video 3 camera in 1C? 4 MR. LUCERO: We have a video camera in the unit 5 control. We have a pod camera that is monitored by master 6 control and we have a video camera in the unit control 7 just in case something happens that the officer can just 8 flick it on, turn it on and start recording. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And how many cameras are in 1C? 10 MR. LUCERO: One, sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Is it stationary or can it move? 12 MR. LUCERO: Stationary. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And, Mr. Corral, it's your 14 testimony that there are no cameras of any kind in unit 6. 15 Is that correct? 16 MR. CORRAL: Video cameras, hand-held, yes. But 17 as far as monitors that they have to monitor, no. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. When would you use the 19 hand-held camera? If there was an incident, right? 20 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So there's no one 22 routinely standing there with a hand-held camera observing 65 1 what's going on in any of the pods in unit 6? 2 MR. CORRAL: The units also have a camera that's 3 mounted inside the unit that's also monitored by master 4 control. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, so there is a video camera, 6 stationary video camera? 7 MR. CORRAL: Inside the units, yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: And does that apply to 6A, B, C 9 and D as well? 10 MR. CORRAL: That is correct. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And each of those pods has one 12 stationary camera. Is that correct? 13 MR. CORRAL: That's correct. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And that's monitored by 15 master control? 16 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And the unit control would 18 only -- what would be the occasion for them, the 19 correctional officer in unit control to look at that video 20 display? 21 MR. CORRAL: The video display is in master 22 control and they cave panels for operating doors and 66 1 keeping a vigil. If there isn't anything out of the norm, 2 we use the hand-held recording device. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Would master control 4 inform the unit control that they were seeing something 5 happening on the stationary video and so inform the unit 6 control that they ought to take a look at the camera and 7 what master control is seeing? Is that the way it used to 8 work in unit 6? 9 MR. CORRAL: A response would be called if there 10 was ever a concern in one of the units that something was 11 happening in the pods. There would be a team that would 12 also go take a look and see what was going on. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: So your answer is yes, the master 14 control called unit control? 15 MR. CORRAL: They would announce it over the 16 radio if they had a concern. 17 MS. ELLIS: Sir, do you know how many cameras you 18 have in the entire facility? 19 MR. CORRAL: I don't. No. Not right now. 20 MS. ELLIS: Would you want more? Do you want 21 additional cameras? 22 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 67 1 MR. LUCERO: Yes, ma'am. 2 MS. ELLIS: So you don't believe that you have 3 enough in order to adequately survey all of the areas of 4 concern? 5 MR. CORRAL: I believe there is a sufficient 6 amount, but I am a greedy person. If I had more cameras, 7 I'd like more cameras. If I had more staff, I'd like more 8 staff. If I had more money, I'd like more money. 9 MS. ELLIS: Have you taken these issues up with 10 someone above your head? 11 MR. CORRAL: I speak with my supervisor regular 12 on a regular basis, yes. 13 MS. ELLIS: And your supervisor speaks to someone 14 at a higher level? 15 MR. CORRAL: I believe so. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: So where would you want to put 17 these cameras? You mentioned, Captain, the kitchen seems 18 to be a concern of yours. And, I believe, Mr. Corral, you 19 said cells is the place you think is higher risk. 20 MR. CORRAL: I believe this would require the 21 thoughts and the evaluation of several of the team members 22 there are. If we get approved the next month cameras - 68 1 where exactly we would want to place them, I believe my 2 thoughts are important, but I believe that the thoughts of 3 other individuals are equally as important and then a 4 decision would be made. There is a possibility. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. Well, what would be your 6 input? What would you say? I understand the decision is 7 not solely yours, but what would you say to Warden Ezell 8 if he asked your opinion? All right. We've got 'x' 9 number of new cameras. Where do you think are the blind 10 spots? Where do we need them? What would your response 11 be? 12 MR. CORRAL: I would probably start off with some 13 of the areas that were identified as well as the kitchen, 14 dry storage, maybe some of the stairwells or areas that 15 are not frequently monitored. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: What other areas besides the 17 stairwells in unit 6 are some of those less frequently 18 monitored places? 19 MR. CORRAL: Less frequently monitored place 20 might in the hallway. I mean, there's always a visual of 21 them, but it's not as direct as inside the units. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain, where would you want to 69 1 put an extra video cameras? 2 MR. LUCERO: More in the kitchen. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: There are a couple already in the 4 kitchen, aren't there? 5 MR. LUCERO: Yes. Yes sir, but like in the 6 storage, just a little bit more. Somehow, behind the 7 stairwells and all, you need some on the west side or that 8 units 5, 6, 7 and 8. So we can see behind the stairwell. 9 Other than that, I think everything else is pretty good. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Some of your stairwells are open? 11 MR. LUCERO: On the south side. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Any other areas that you can 13 think of that if you had an extra camera, you think it 14 would be a good idea to place? We're trying to explore. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: All the other areas have direct 16 supervision by a staff member. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Where else can an inmate be 18 without a visual? Let's think about the infirmary. Are 19 you familiar with the layout of the infirmary? 20 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral, are you familiar with 22 it? 70 1 MR. CORRAL: I've been to the infirmary, yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, one stationary camera 3 focused on the door to the pharmacy. 4 MR. CORRAL: Hm-hmm. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Are there any other cameras in 6 the infirmary? 7 MR. CORRAL: There's a camera in the cell. I 8 think that's it. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: You're familiar with the supply 10 closet? 11 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. No window on that door? 13 MR. CORRAL: Right. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: I believe the warden indicated. 15 MR. CORRAL: That we're getting a window put in? 16 MR. MCFARLAND: There were plans to put a window 17 in that door. 18 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Inmates can be in there, correct? 20 MR. CORRAL: Trustees trust their janitorial 21 supplies from that supply closet. Is that correct? 22 MR. MCFARLAND: I mean, they're not supposed to 71 1 go in there unattended. They're not supposed to go in 2 there by themselves. A staff member is supposed to be 3 with them. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, so they could be in there 5 with a correctional officer? 6 MR. CORRAL: The correctional officer opens the 7 door for them. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, okay, any other blind 9 spots? How can we see into the cells better, Mr. Corral? 10 You indicated you thought that was a vulnerable area, but 11 if you've got a lot of beds, where would you position, you 12 know, some additional cameras in a way they could 13 intimidate potential predators in the cells? 14 MR. CORRAL: Maybe towards the center wall of the 15 unit. The location of where ours is at right now, it 16 covers everything. It may be a zoom in camera. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: So, a camera. I'm sorry. Were 18 you done? 19 MR. CORRAL: The camera where it's at right now 20 catches a visual of everything inside the pod, but I think 21 it's maybe a zoom in camera. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And also one that could be 72 1 rotated or tilted? 2 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. You would agree with that, 4 Captain? 5 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 6 MS. ELLIS: What about the shower area? Does 7 that constitute a possibility? 8 MR. LUCERO: No, ma'am. Our shower area is right 9 outside the pod. I mean, it's in the day room, the 10 officers in the control have direct visual of the showers, 11 and the walls are not high. The walls are only waist high 12 or like about rib high. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: The new policy 14.2 has another 14 attachment to it. It's 14-2A, a policy acknowledgment. 15 Are you familiar with that document? 16 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral? 18 MR. CORRAL: I scanned it, yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, what is that? Is that 20 something you're supposed to sign once a year 21 acknowledging something? 22 MR. CORRAL: It's to acknowledge that you 73 1 received the policy and that you have read it. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And have both of you had occasion 3 to sign that acknowledgment? Have you ever been presented 4 with it and said this is something we need to have you 5 sign and have on file? 6 MR. LUCERO: I believe so. I signed, actually. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral? 8 MR. CORRAL: Yes, but that form, can I see the 9 form? 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. 11 MR. CORRAL: Just to make sure that we're talking 12 about the same one. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: They're here someplace. Warden, 14 do you have a copy of that? 15 MR. EZELL: Yes, I do. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: I thought I did. Thank you, sir. 17 And so what is that supposed to signify? 18 MR. LUCERO: By signing that form, we acknowledge 19 that we have read the policy, understand the policy. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: We asked you earlier about the 21 profile of potential sexual assault victims. Now I want 22 to ask you what in your experience is the profile of the 74 1 potential sexual assault predator. Let's start with an 2 inmate predator. 3 MR. CORRAL: Predators could exhibit the 4 characteristics of having mental challenges as well being 5 gang affiliated, having lengthy sentences. 6 MR. LUCERO: Bigger, confident. 7 MR. CORRAL: Having past victimization or sexual 8 abuse. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: In other words, having been a sex 10 offender? Is that what you're saying? 11 MR. CORRAL: That's plausible. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And what about a history of 13 being a sexual assault victim himself? 14 MR. CORRAL: Victim or predator in the past. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: When you said bigger, you mean 16 large stature? 17 MR. LUCERO: Like bigger in stature, confident, 18 mean looking. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Intimidating? Is that a yes, 20 sir? 21 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Let me ask about gang 75 1 affiliations. Is that relevant? 2 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 3 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Why is that? 5 MR. CORRAL: In a world of possibilities that 6 could be even an initiation. I never heard of one myself, 7 but it could be possible we're going to initiate to this. 8 MS. ELLIS: That is indeed what I wanted to 9 follow up on, the power and control associated with sexual 10 assault and gangs, and that whole issue of power and 11 control. How many gangs are you aware of in your 12 facility? 13 MR. LUCERO: In '07 we probably had about 150 14 gang members throughout. 15 MS. ELLIS: Gang members? 16 MR. LUCERO: But that's throughout the facility. 17 That's everybody. 18 MS. ELLIS: And different types of gangs or 19 different names for different groups within that 150. So 20 then this whole idea of power and control as one of the 21 values of the gangs must be pervasive in your facility, 22 that it could happen that somebody could make their 76 1 strokes in terms of sexual assaulting, raping somebody 2 else to prove that they are indeed in control, and at the 3 same time to debase, humiliate and disempower someone 4 else, because then the shame and humiliation associated 5 with it could be a punishment or retaliation for an issue. 6 Does that happen a great deal? 7 MR. CORRAL: In 2007 the gang members we had and 8 the different types of gangs we had there was probably no 9 more than - it would be approximately around maybe no more 10 than 10 of a certain type of gang. There might have been 11 gang members from different sets or groups, but as far as 12 to say we were 60 strong in a gang, it wasn't existent in 13 the state in 2007. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: In unit 6, you're talking about? 15 MR. LUCERO: Yeah, in unit 6. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: How many total gang bangers do 17 you think you had in unit 6 among the state offenders? 18 MR. LUCERO: I would say approximately about 35. 19 MR. CORRAL: Probably around 35. I couldn't tell 20 you. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: What are the kinds of situations 22 in which sexual assault is more likely in your experience? 77 1 We talked about locations. We've talked about profiles. 2 What about situations; time of day? Where are they? 3 Again, if you were a predator, what would be the 4 situations that you think would be most advantageous for 5 you to be able to get away with it? 6 MR. CORRAL: I would think at nighttime. 7 Nighttime would always be one. I think it works both the 8 same in streets and then in prisons at night and people 9 know that they can. 10 MS. CHUNN: Why is that? 11 MR. CORRAL: I don't know if just because it's a 12 little darker at night. We have the night cell lights, 13 just like society has the lamps out on the street corners. 14 But everything does seem a little darker. It's a little 15 slower paced. 16 MS. CHUNN: What about the coverage, the 17 staffing? 18 MR. CORRAL: The coverage remains the same as far 19 as on the staff, but I think with everything being quiet, 20 the cells being locked at nighttime, they'd be able to 21 observe. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you have case managers during 78 1 the nigh tshift present? 2 MR. CORRAL: Until 9:00. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And do you have case counselors 4 present during the night shift? 5 MR. CORRAL: Likewise, just 'til 9. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Just 'til 9, okay; so really 7 there is reduced coverage. In August in unit 6 you had 8 two roving correctional officers during the night shift. 9 Is that correct? 10 MR. CORRAL: That's correct. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. And one in the unit 12 control? 13 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 14 MS. ELLIS: Are inmates moved around at night, 15 for instance, if they are on kitchen duty or cleaning 16 duty, and have duties that occur during the middle of the 17 night? Are they moved to those locations and are there 18 legitimate reasons for officers to go to a cell and move 19 an inmate for any particular reason during the night? 20 MR. CORRAL: We have some positions or had some 21 positions where inmates worked in the corridors of the 5, 22 6 floor, and then the culinary department at about 3:30 in 79 1 the morning. 2 MS. ELLIS: Might this present an opportunity for 3 a sexual assault? 4 MR. CORRAL: A sexual assault could happen any 5 time. I believe that if there is an opportunity or if 6 they sense that there is an opportunity, it can be tried. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. You've identified 8 nighttime. What are other situations where you think 9 there would be a greater risk? What about during 10 programming? Where do those who are getting their GED 11 classes go for that? Where did the New Mexico and 12 Torrance County inmates go last August? 13 MR. CORRAL: They went to the education building. 14 In the education building they had a teacher that 15 supervises. We also have a correctional officer out 16 there to monitor the corridors. They had religious 17 programming, state of New Mexico inmates, libraries. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Where was the religious 19 programming? Also in the education building? 20 MR. CORRAL: That was in the corridor, in the 21 hallway. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: In the hallway? 80 1 MR. CORRAL: Of the 5, 6 floor. There's a room 2 that detaches from the hallway. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And that's windowed, isn't it? 4 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Are there any blinds on that 6 window? 7 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you'd have any 9 correctional officers in there during chapel? 10 MR. CORRAL: Excuse me? 11 MR. MCFARLAND: During those religious services, 12 would a correctional officer be present? 13 MR. CORRAL: They would be roving, as we walk up 14 and down the hallways, monitoring through the windows. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: So the two rovers would not only 16 be responsible for walking through 6A through 6D, but also 17 checking in if there was activities in that room on the 18 hallway. Is that correct? 19 MR. CORRAL: We had a number of employees that 20 would on a regular basis go past that window. We have 7, 21 8 floor, and other officers where there's constant walking 22 up and down. But officers would check on those areas as 81 1 well. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: So that's a yes? 3 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So other than during the 5 night shift, are there any other situations you think 6 there was heightened danger in August of '07 of sexual 7 assault? 8 MR. LUCERO: Not in my opinion. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that a no? 10 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: What about staff-on-inmate sexual 12 assault? We talked about what's the profile of an inmate 13 predator. What kind of employee is more likely to be 14 tempted to be a sexual predator in your facility? 15 MR. CORRAL: Being an employee with low self- 16 esteem, financial difficulties. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Marital status relevant? 18 MR. LUCERO: Excuse me? 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Marital status? 20 MR. LUCERO: Marital status could be going 21 through a divorce, could be looking for a relationship. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Are you aware of an instance at 82 1 Torrance County where a staff member has become 2 romantically involved with an inmate? 3 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that a yes, Captain? 5 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And, starting with you 7 Mr. Corral, when did that happen? 8 MR. CORRAL: In '07. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And without naming the staff 10 member, what was his or her sex and assignment? 11 MR. CORRAL: Female, roving. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: A roving female CO? 13 MR. CORRAL: Correct. Correct. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: What unit was she in? 15 MR. CORRAL: 600 block. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, so she was in unit 6 17 among the state inmates? 18 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what happened to her, 20 if anything? Was she disciplined, or was it just 21 overlooked or what? 22 MR. CORRAL: I believe I went up to the 83 1 investigator. I didn't follow it all the way to all the 2 details and answers. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Is she still at the facility? 4 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you know if she resigned? 6 MR. CORRAL: I don't know, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you never asked what 8 happened to one of your correctional officers who just 9 stopped coming? 10 MR. CORRAL: There are certain practices I had 11 made that once the information gets passed on, I believe 12 it's on a need-to-know basis. And I work with my team on 13 what I have. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you've heard nothing 15 about what happened after you passed on the paperwork? 16 You have no idea? You have not heard any hearsay or 17 anything about what happened to her? 18 MR. CORRAL: There is always hearsay, sir. I 19 didn't personally go to one of my supervisors. I didn't 20 go to Warden Ezell or to anybody and say, "What happened 21 to this employee?" But hearsay, there is always hearsay. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: What's the hearsay about what 84 1 happened to her? 2 MR. CORRAL: That the employee quit. 3 MS. ELLIS: Was this after finding out some of 4 the circumstances? Was this something that was considered 5 unusual? Were people shocked, surprised, amazed, 6 disappointed? What was the reaction? 7 MR. CORRAL: From the employee, yes. There was 8 shock that it did happen. 9 MS. ELLIS: That something of this nature could 10 occur in the facility? 11 MR. CORRAL: There is always an understanding 12 that relationships could form. Acts could occur. But I 13 think with this individual it would start as a little 14 shocking. 15 MS. ELLIS: I see. Because of the individual, or 16 because of the event? 17 MR. CORRAL: Because of the individual. 18 MS. ELLIS: Before the survey, had you ever had 19 any type of training that would make you aware of some of 20 the vulnerabilities that exists in working in this kind of 21 environment and that sexual assault could happen, that a 22 professional could be drawn into relationships? Have you 85 1 ever had any type of special training along those lines? 2 MR. CORRAL: Yes, ma'am, during the annual 3 in-service training, we've had that kind of coverage. 4 MS. ELLIS: So those kinds of discussions and 5 topics were covered? 6 MR. CORRAL: Yes, ma'am. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral, your facility 8 produced some documents and there were two staff members 9 who were involved in sexual assault, or whether it's 10 deemed consensual or not, during 2007. And I just want to 11 make sure without naming them I've got the right one. Was 12 the instance you've just been testifying to, was this 13 female correctional officer, did you pass on the paperwork 14 so to speak on her infraction about mid-year about some 15 time in June of '07? Does that sound about right? 16 MR. CORRAL: I believe it was in June of '07. 17 I'm not quite certain if I submitted any documentation. 18 I'd look at it. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm handing you an incident 20 report 07-0503-074. Are those four pages involve the 21 employee you are talking about? 22 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 86 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And this particular 2 instance, the investigation involved 47 phone calls that 3 were recorded between this officer and the inmate 4 constituting about 23 hours' worth of recorded phone 5 conversations. Is that correct? 6 MR. CORRAL: According to the documentation. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: But you don't have any personal 8 knowledge? 9 MR. CORRAL: No. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And, Captain, do you have any 11 personal knowledge about this investigation or this 12 incident? 13 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. I was on graveyard at the 14 time. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, you were on graveyard? 16 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And I believe this individual 18 worked the day shift. 19 MR. LUCERO: Okay. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: So have you heard any 21 scuttlebutt, any hearsay about the particulars of this 22 relationship? 87 1 MR. LUCERO: Only that she quit. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. What did they tell you as 3 a shift supervisor and as a unit manager, in this case, 4 Mr. Corral being the unit manager over this individual? 5 I understand that you didn't ask, but what was the 6 official word that was given to you by administration 7 about what happened to this staff member? 8 MR. CORRAL: Oftentimes, there's a practice that 9 even if an employee, or if I was to select you to take my 10 career elsewhere, there's at times a posting when you walk 11 in that says this person is no longer authorized into the 12 facility without an escort or something like that. But as 13 far as specifically stating reasons or anything, that's 14 not something. 15 MR. LUCERO: We're not privy to that information. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And during the in-service 17 training after this incident, have you had any in-service 18 training on sexual assault after this incident? 19 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 20 MR. CORRAL: It is continued. We have also taken 21 the PREA, the Prison Rape Elimination Act, the National 22 Institute of Corrections class. 88 1 MR. MCFARLAND: The two-hour video course? 2 MR. LUCERO: Online. 3 MR. CORRAL: Online course. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, I'm sorry. Were you done 5 sir? 6 MR. CORRAL: Go ahead. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Was any reference made in the 8 subsequent in-service training? 9 MR. LUCERO: About this employee? 10 MR. MCFARLAND: About this incident, yeah. 11 MR. LUCERO: No. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Whether they named her or not, 13 was there any discussion about hey, we've actually had an 14 incident like this? This is not theory. This has 15 actually happened and this is how you can avoid it and 16 these are the consequences if we don't avoid it. Any kind 17 of discussion like that? 18 MR. CORRAL: Discussions have occurred as far as 19 on PREA and as far as on acts and consequences. But I 20 don't believe there was a conversation specifically saying 21 we had an officer that done this. It was more generalized 22 to say, you know. 89 1 MR. LUCERO: This can't happen. 2 MR. CORRAL: This can't happen. This is what we 3 need to do, and methods that if a person is finding 4 themselves in some predicament where they can report it to 5 somebody. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, why don't we take a 5- or 7 10-minute break? 8 (A brief recess was taken.) 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Gentlemen, when I toured your 10 facility on September 18, 2008, I was in one of the pods 11 and was speaking with some of the inmates. And as I did, 12 another inmate walked by and handed me a note, which I 13 have provided to your warden. And it's a handwritten note 14 not signed that says as follows: 15 "Although I have not yet been sexually assaulted 16 at TCDF, I have concerns that should an event of this 17 nature occur, response would be slow to come and when it 18 did would be mishandled. I say this based on the 19 following observations. There seems to be pervasive 20 attitude of non-accountability within the staff here. 21 When approached for assistance many times a response such 22 as 'It's not my job,' or 'they (some other entity within 90 1 TCDC) were supposed to do that,' is more commonly received 2 than not. 3 Getting help from designated officers is 4 difficult, even with small requests, and often requires 5 multiple approaches. In a situation requiring a rapid 6 response and discretion, it's doubtful if the staff here 7 would be capable of the coordination needed to handle such 8 an event. What I would like to suggest is that certain 9 staff members be trained to respond with sensitivity and 10 accountability. Thank you. Need to improve effective 11 communication." 12 Would you agree with that assessment of this 13 anonymous inmate? 14 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. I wouldn't. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Why is that? 16 MR. LUCERO: Because any time that there has been 17 any response at our facility, we're there in a matter of 18 seconds. And every time that there is a situation, that 19 we've had a situation, the staff is always prepared. We 20 have a five-man response team or a five-person response 21 team that responds, and they're not fumbling around. They 22 know their job. 91 1 They are told what their job is. They know how 2 to respond. They know what they're supposed to bring to 3 the response and they don't forget nothing. We're not 4 getting to a response, and me being as a shift supervisor, 5 I have not been to a response where my staff is fumbling 6 for stuff. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: But what kind of incidents are 8 you talking about? Are you talking about an altercation 9 between inmates? 10 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. When have you seen a 12 response? 13 MR. LUCERO: Or a medical response. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Somebody is down in need of 15 medical assistance. Is that a yes, sir? 16 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: So have you ever seen an occasion 18 at any time in your many years in Torrance County was that 19 kind of response towards an allegation of prison rape? 20 MR. LUCERO: In my experience, no, because like 21 I said earlier, no one has ever told me anything like that 22 before as when I'd be running shift, when I've been there. 92 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So this inmate could be right 2 then that you're not hearing about it? There's nothing to 3 respond to because your subordinates may feel that "it is 4 not my job," to worry about sexual assault. If there is 5 an altercation, there's an assault on an officer, if 6 there's a medical emergency, we're all over that. Sexual 7 assaults, they're getting what they have coming. That 8 could be an attitude, and I'm just asking you, Captain, 9 for your response. 10 MR. LUCERO: I don't think anybody in our 11 facility has that attitude. Nobody has the, oh, it's a 12 rape, oh, they get what's coming, because everybody is a 13 human being. I wouldn't like it if was myself, it if 14 happened to me, to my mother, to my father. And I don't 15 treat those inmates and I tell my staff every day not to 16 treat those inmates like they don't want to be treated, 17 like they wouldn't be your own family, because a lot of 18 people out there have done bad things in their life. 19 The only difference between me and an inmate is 20 they got caught and I got didn't. Not me personally, but 21 anybody. So I would not want that to happen to my mother. 22 I would not want that to happen to my father, my brother, 93 1 to my wife, my kids, anybody. So I don't feel the staff 2 have that attitude. I feel that's a false statement. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Well said, thank you. 4 Mr. Corral? 5 MR. CORRAL: I believe that every individual has 6 their own reality. We are in the people's business, and 7 they get stress to us on a regular basis. We are in the 8 people's business. Inmates have needs and part of our 9 duty is to be there for the population. I believe that 10 everyone in the facility has specific duties and they also 11 have limitations to their duties. Individuals can 12 definitely, that could be that individual's reality. 13 There are correctional officers that if an inmate is 14 asking something that a correctional officer can do. They 15 can only refer them to the next channel. 16 If it's a process where other departments are 17 involved because we have our specific locations, then we 18 do have to act as a liaison with another department to 19 make sure that we can remedy that situation, whether a 20 person states that that is their belief, I mean, they're 21 entitled to that. But I do believe that there is a lot of 22 options and a lot of methods, or there's a lot of ways 94 1 that people, inmates, can communicate with the staff if 2 something is going on or if they foresee. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, we're going to get to the 4 ways of reporting, but this note is speaking to how those 5 reports would be received and responded to. And my 6 question is: where do you think an inmate would get this 7 idea that there is a pervasive attitude of 8 non-accountability? It's not my job, ineffective 9 communication up the food chain. 10 MR. CORRAL: I couldn't tell you where he got 11 that thought. I do know that when the tour happened we 12 didn't tour any of my units. Speaking of the other staff 13 that work at the facility, I work very close, hand-in-hand 14 with them. I mean, we always discuss, having our morning 15 meetings and they're all very professional. So I couldn't 16 answer where he got that. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Let's talk about the 18 ways an alleged sexual assault victim could report it. 19 What are the ways they can? 20 MR. CORRAL: There's a call number that is posted 21 in all of the units where they can remain anonymous and 22 call. 95 1 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did that start, 2 Mr. Corral? 3 MR. CORRAL: That started -- We have had 4 different lines throughout the past year, and they were 5 titled differently, but specific to PREA. And that was 6 pretty recently this year. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: That was after the June report 8 came out, right? 9 MR. CORRAL: I believe so. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. That's part of the 11 warden's response? 12 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: It's a great response, but that 14 wasn't the case in August of '07? 15 MR. CORRAL: Correct. I think. 16 MR. LUCERO: There was a tip line in '07. It 17 wasn't specific. 18 MR. CORRAL: To sexual assault. 19 MR. LUCERO: There was a line that the inmates 20 could call stating different problems that they were 21 having within the unit. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, how was it advertised to 96 1 the inmates? 2 MR. CORRAL: It was on a poster. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, and what did it say? "If 4 you know of criminal activity you can call this anonymous 5 line", right? 6 MR. CORRAL: Something like that. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: There's nothing said about if 8 you're being sexually pressured by an inmate or a staff 9 member, call this number? 10 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. And what is now said, 12 how is the new PREA-specific hotline advertised in the 13 pods? 14 MR. CORRAL: With the specifics of inmate, inmate 15 staff, inmate volunteer. It goes in depth, and then also 16 gives a contact line supported by the policy on the 17 bottom. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Back in '07, was there any poster 19 that said, "Sexual assault is a felony that will be 20 prosecuted" or words to that affect? 21 MR. CORRAL: Not to my recollection. 22 MR. LUCERO: Mine neither. 97 1 MR. CORRAL: What we had in '07 was we had the 2 open office hours and that also afforded individuals from 3 any pod or any unit the opportunity to go speak with their 4 case manager regarding any issues that they had. My 5 office was also located right across the hallway from the 6 units and right next to the case manager's office, so that 7 they also had that opportunity as well or when we're doing 8 our rounds through the pod. 9 If somebody came up and said they needed to 10 speak, they also had the ability to make outside calls 11 from the lines where they could have contacted family 12 members, loved ones, that we had a grievance process also 13 which they could have sent to staff members. Or they 14 could have sent it directly with the contracting agency to 15 the state. 16 MS. ELLIS: With those telephone calls outside of 17 the facility, are the telephone calls monitored that 18 inmates make to their families and outside? 19 MR. CORRAL: Yes, they also were able if they 20 wanted to send an inter-facility mail request if they had 21 a concern. It could go directly to the warden or to any 22 personnel in the facility, just marked with the name on 98 1 it, "confidential," and they could seal it and put it 2 inside an inmate request box, which is picked up daily and 3 then distributed. So those are some of the ways that they 4 could have communicated. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm looking at pages 4 and 5 of 6 the new policy 14-2, and it has a section on reporting. 7 And I'll hand it up to you. There's a list, E-1A through 8 F. Thank you, Warden. Do you agree with that list? Is 9 there anything you'd add or detract from that list of 10 means of reporting sexual violence? And, if you notice in 11 the middle of page 5 in the box, there's also the 12 reference to the hotline system and the fact that they can 13 make a medical emergency claim. Do you agree with that 14 list? 15 MR. LUCERO: I do. 16 MR. CORRAL: So do I. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Anything you'd add to that? Any 18 other ways you can at your facility today that an inmate 19 can complain of sexual assault? 20 MR. LUCERO: I like it. I don't think there's 21 anything. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Showing you a form called 99 1 "Sick call request," 13-80A as in apple, 1, which has a 2 carbon duplicate on the form, and it's dated October 2007. 3 Is this how today an inmate would request to see a nurse? 4 You're nodding your head Captain? 5 MR. LUCERO: I believe so. 6 MR. CORRAL: They can submit that form to go see 7 medical if they have any illnesses or stuff. Our offices 8 are also available in case if they injure themselves or 9 there is something out of the norm that would require 10 immediate medical attention, which also they could speak 11 to the case managers or unit manager if they needed, speak 12 to mental health or medical on an emergency basis. But if 13 it's a headache or something they feel is wrong with them 14 or they would like to have examined, they can submit that 15 as well. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: So unless it's an emergency, 17 you're not going to be seen the same day by the nurse. Is 18 that correct? 19 MR. CORRAL: I couldn't answer that question. I 20 mean, they can place it if they place it in the morning 21 and medical picked it up that day early in the morning and 22 they scanned it and they deemed it as an emergency. It is 100 1 possible they could be seen, but I couldn't say yes or no, 2 sir. It's possible. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain, what's been your 4 experience on the turnaround time or the backlog for 5 getting medical attention if it's not an emergency, an 6 obvious emergency? 7 MR. LUCERO: I'm not sure about the turnaround 8 time, because the boxes that the inmates put that in are 9 in the housing unit, and the only ones that have access to 10 that our medical department. So I don't know when an 11 inmate drops in how fast he goes to medical. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: If I told you that I was told on 13 your tour that it takes 15 days to be seen, would you 14 dispute that, or do you just don't know? 15 MR. LUCERO: I just don't know. I couldn't 16 dispute it. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And showing you a two-page form 18 0307. Oh, by the way, was there a different sick call 19 request form prior to October 2007? In other words, how 20 did you request to see the nurse at the time of the 21 survey? 22 MR. LUCERO: It was similar to that. It just 101 1 wasn't duplicated. It was just a single sheet of paper. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: I see, and why did they duplicate 3 it? 4 MR. LUCERO: They are supposed to keep track of 5 the other one so that when they know, because the inmates 6 will go and say I put in seven requests. Well, where's 7 your requests? 8 MR. MCFARLAND: So this is a great way to protect 9 your staff so you don't have somebody say, hey, I told him 10 I had a ruptured spleen 42 times and nothing was done. 11 You can say, well, then show me the duplicate? 12 MR. LUCERO: Hm-hmm. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that right? 14 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: So is it your understanding, Mr. 16 Corral, that the way this duplicate form is supposed to 17 work that the inmate completes part A and signs it, and 18 keeps the yellow copy or? 19 MR. LUCERO: I believe it goes to the medical 20 department, and then on the bottom portion of it, or 21 whenever they're going to see him for an appointment or 22 set him up, or whatever notations they placed, then it's 102 1 done on the bottom portion. He has the yellow copy. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So the inmate doesn't get 3 anything back when he fills out part A. Is that right? 4 So he has no way of proving that he put in a sick call 5 request. Until and unless the nurse writes something back 6 on part B and sends back the yellow duplicate, the inmate 7 has no way of providing that he sent a note to the nurse. 8 Is that correct, Mr. Corral? 9 MR. CORRAL: At this time, no. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: That's correct? 11 MR. CORRAL: That sounds correct. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you received any training on 13 how your personnel are supposed to respond to sick call 14 requests? Has it ever been discussed at any level? 15 MR. CORRAL: How medical responds to them? 16 MR. MCFARLAND: No. Has it ever been discussed? 17 Have you ever received any instruction about how 18 correctional officers or other staff, what they're 19 supposed to do with this form? 20 MR. CORRAL: We don't collect the forms. As far 21 as keeping accountability, there always is pros and cons, 22 and we are open to suggestion and to use this as a tool. 103 1 The third carbon copy may serve as a purpose on proving 2 that yes, it did get submitted. By the same token, a 3 carbon copy is only as good as the inmate actually 4 submitting the form. 5 But if he fills it out and disposes of the top 6 two forms and has a record of 35 pink copies on a regular 7 basis saying, "I did submit and here's my proof," does it 8 really prove? But it is definitely an avenue that I'm 9 definitely going to take back to the facility with me and 10 see what steps we could take with that. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain, did you have a response? 12 MR. LUCERO: When an inmate asks me if I'm in the 13 house unit when I'm conducting my rounds, they may ask me 14 how to fill those out. I tell him to keep the yellow copy 15 and turn in the white. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And I began describing this 17 two-page resolution form. It's dated 03/07. So am I 18 correct this form was in use at the time of the survey? 19 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 20 MR. CORRAL: I believe so. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Here, let me show it to you 22 there. 104 1 (The witness examined the document.) 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you seen that document 3 before? 4 MR. CORRAL: Yes, I have. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain? 6 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: How does it work? What's this 8 for? Is this the grievance form for inmates? 9 MR. CORRAL: That was the grievance form for 10 federal inmates. State of New Mexico inmates had a 11 similar form. The contents were pretty much the same. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Warden, I am going to ask 13 if possible if we could get a copy of the New Mexico 14 equivalent of this grievance, or I'll ask Shannon later on 15 his panel about it. What training did you have? 16 I'm sorry. This is what is now used with the 17 Marshal Service and with ICE detainees. Is that right? 18 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 19 MR. CORRAL: In 2007 I was working with the 20 state. I'm assuming that's what was used. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 22 MR. CORRAL: An informal process originally 105 1 allows inmates to express their concerns regarding what 2 they felt may be an injustice or a violation regarding 3 policy. If there's a mistreatment, misconduct or anything 4 they feel is inappropriate, it just gives them an 5 opportunity also to express that concern. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm being handed a one-page 7 document, form CD-150501.3 and it's entitled, "New Mexico 8 Corrections Department Inmate Informal Complaint." Is 9 that the form that was used in unit 5 and 6 in August of 10 last year? 11 MR. CORRAL: I believe so. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And what did Torrance County 13 folks in unit 1C use to communicate a grievance? 14 MR. CORRAL: The other form. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: The federal form, the form 14-5A? 16 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Or its predecessor? 18 MR. CORRAL: Okay. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: That's right. You weren't in 20 1-C. And after the inmate would sign and after the New 21 Mexico inmate would sign the top half of his complaint, 22 what were your staffs supposed to do with it, Mr. Corral? 106 1 MR. CORRAL: The individual that filled out the 2 informal resolution would normally hand it directly to me, 3 but they could also pass it to a staff member who would 4 give it to me. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, you're saying the inmate 6 would normally hand it directly to you? 7 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. But he could hand it to a 9 correction officer? 10 MR. CORRAL: They could hand it too. It's 11 possible. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What was done with it 13 then? 14 MR. CORRAL: A meeting would be set up with the 15 individual to discuss the informal resolution and to see 16 if the disposition of that informal resolution would be 17 result at that time. And if it wasn't unable to be 18 resolved, then it was returned personally to the inmate so 19 that he could use that to the disciplinary port, afford it 20 to the disciplinary process. If it was resolved at that 21 time, then copies were made. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And a copy given to the inmate? 107 1 MR. CORRAL: Correct. He either had a copy or 2 the original returned to him. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, who was the 'reviewing' 4 staff member who would decide on a recommendation, what to 5 do with the grievance? 6 MR. CORRAL: I would be the person to review 7 that, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you recall as a 9 regular part of your duties reviewing this form from New 10 Mexico inmates in '07? 11 MR. CORRAL: That's correct. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Suffice it to say, you get a lot 13 of grievances in corrections. Right? 14 MR. CORRAL: I've only worked at one facility. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Is it a rare event 16 for you to get a grievance from an inmate? 17 MR. CORRAL: No. It's not a rare event. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And it can be everything 19 from "my waffle was cold" to "I'm in need of psychotropic 20 drugs"? 21 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain, would you agree that you 108 1 get a lot of grievances? 2 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Can they be kind of a pain in the 4 neck for your correctional officers? 5 MR. LUCERO: Correction officers don't deal with 6 the grievances, so -- 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you expect your correction 8 officers to try to resolve informally a grievance on the 9 spot, or do they just say, "Hey, I'll take anything, and 10 we just pass it up to the unit manager?" 11 MR. LUCERO: Take it up to the unit manager to 12 the unit team. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, and the reason why I'm 14 asking is because a number of the facilities that we've 15 visited, they specifically ask their officers, try to 16 resolve it if it's something as easy as giving them 17 another blanket, you know, then why have all the 18 paperwork? Just say, hey, what do you need? Why do you 19 want this form? But it's your testimony that anybody in 20 unit 6 could have got this complaint form with no 21 questions asked from a correctional officer. Is that 22 right? 109 1 MR. LUCERO: It is possible that anybody could 2 have gotten it. If you were doing a walk-through in 2007 3 and might have given it to you, but they would come to me. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And did you expect those 5 officers to ask the requesting inmate why do you want this 6 form? 7 MR. LUCERO: During our daily rounds and our 8 inmates were more, they were the long-term inmates. 9 During our rounds and conducting our rounds, it was 10 explained the process and the methods on how things are 11 done, hypothetically speaking, if they needed a blanket, 12 the process to get a blanket. So the knowledge, the 13 information was out there on the process on how to get it. 14 If there was something that came to my office 15 that I felt could have been handled at a lower level, that 16 was definitely a topic of conversation that was held with 17 my staff. But it wasn't anything that I'd seen as you 18 should have never, ever given it to me. I'd encourage my 19 staff to give things to me. If they gave them a request, 20 they didn't handle it, give it to me. I can address it. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: My question is did your 22 correctional officers ask the inmate why do you want this 110 1 form? 2 MR. LUCERO: Sir, I can't answer that question. 3 If an inmate asks a staff member for an informal, my 4 instructions, they give them the informal. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. No questions asked. Your 6 instructions to your staff is if somebody asked for an 7 informal. 8 MR. LUCERO: Yes, but then they came up and asked 9 for an informal. They can give them the informal. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And they don't need to quiz the 11 inmate about why he's asking for it. Is that correct? 12 MR. LUCERO: If an inmate came to a staff member 13 and asked for something and couldn't, the officer couldn't 14 provide it, and they said give me an informal, the officer 15 would give them an informal. If an inmate asked a staff 16 member, and we are in the people's business, that's not 17 going to be where an inmate comes up and asks the staff 18 member to give them this, and the staff member just here's 19 your informal. I believe that is a common question that 20 is asked. Is there anything I can do? Now, I can't help 21 you, but we're not going to have them try to investigate 22 or dig any deeper into why. 111 1 MR. MCFARLAND: And what I'm driving out 2 obviously is if the individual is trying to get word to 3 the administration that a staff member is hitting on them 4 sexually, they're probably not going to want to spread it 5 around, you know, among the rest of the staff. So if your 6 correctional officers routinely are supposed to ask why do 7 you need this form, what do you want to grieve about. Is 8 there something I can do, please tell me before I give you 9 the form. That's going to intimidate the victim. That's 10 why I'm asking. 11 MR. LUCERO: I also firmly believe that if an 12 individual did want to notify the administration, they 13 could have used any form would be accepted by the 14 administration, a blank piece of paper and an envelope, 15 sealed, marked "confidential," and they would be able to 16 notify. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: In your experience with the New 18 Mexico long-term inmates, how many times did you ever see 19 such an envelope get passed up to the warden; a common 20 occurrence or once or twice a year or never? 21 MR. LUCERO: I have never personally checked the 22 warden's box or asked him. I know that I received them. 112 1 If I received them, I'm definitely certain that my 2 supervisors have received them. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what's been the nature 4 of what's in those sealed envelopes that you get from 5 inmates back when the New Mexico inmates were there? 6 MR. LUCERO: "I'd like to talk to you. Can we 7 set up a time in the office?" 8 MR. MCFARLAND: And did any of them ever 9 complaint about staff conduct of any kind? 10 MR. LUCERO: It was more regarding can we do 11 another file audit. I've already talked to your staff. 12 I don't agree with the calculations that they came up 13 with, so can you review it with me? Most of them were 14 related to release or to forfeitures of good time. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you ever receive a 16 confidential note of this kind in a sealed envelope that 17 said I am being mistreated by a staff member of any kind, 18 sexual or non-sexual? 19 MR. LUCERO: Not that I can recall; just that 20 going back to calculations. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, would you be concerned if 22 you had got such a complaint? 113 1 MR. LUCERO: I think it would definitely be 2 something that I would bring up to my immediate supervisor 3 as well and treat it very seriously. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: So you'd remember if it had 5 happened? 6 MR. LUCERO: I believe so. 7 MS. ELLIS: I'd like to ask how would a complaint 8 of this nature have been handled from an inmate who was 9 anonymous and has some specific issues about overall 10 performance and efficiency within the institution? How 11 would you have handled this had it come directly to you 12 rather than to someone from outside of the facility? And 13 the question is for you as well, Captain. 14 MR. CORRAL: I believed that the initial contact 15 with the individual submitting that would have to 16 definitely discuss what the contents of it are and to what 17 degree and to see if it could be resolved at that level. 18 And, if not, it would definitely be forwarded to the 19 grievance officer so that it could be resolved at a higher 20 level, if there was something that was out of my abilities 21 to resolve. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Who was the grievance officer in 114 1 '07 for unit 6 grievances? 2 MR. CORRAL: I believe it was Mr. Brown. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Brown? 4 MR. LUCERO: David Brown. 5 MS. ELLIS: Have you ever received complaints of 6 this nature that really questioned and challenged the 7 facility in this manner? Have you ever received anything 8 to this degree? 9 MR. LUCERO: Me personally, no. There have been 10 some and they have gone to the chief, and then he gives 11 them to the grievance officer and the grievance officer 12 goes down there and handles it or talks to them. 13 MR. CORRAL: I have received some, not to that 14 nature; not in an envelope, but anonymous regarding 15 narcotics, but nothing of a sexual. 16 MS. CHUNN: What's it like to work at the 17 facility? What is the culture like among your line 18 employees, your people who have the most interface with 19 the detainees? 20 MR. CORRAL: Well, I think it's apparent that we 21 go to work happy, and I can honestly say at this time that 22 that is a place where I do enjoy going to work. It's 115 1 important. My staff work directly for me, and even though 2 we have a difficult job, I believe corrections is 3 difficult. It's very stressful. You also have to have a 4 little bit of fun. 5 You have to be careful. You have to make it an 6 environment where people can communicate, even if it means 7 knowing your staff and what their favorite meals are. We 8 have conversations sometimes throughout the day that 9 aren't strictly related to business, and it's like so how 10 was your weekend. How did you do? Believe we're in the 11 people's business. 12 That includes staff as well. And regardless of 13 whatever challenges lie ahead for us in that day it's 14 always a good thing to start on a positive note and end on 15 a positive note. If you don't control yourself and you 16 pass it on to your staff, you're going to have a miserable 17 day on the floor and that doom and gloom will reign. It's 18 about effective communication and going from there. 19 Duties can be challenging, not doubt about that. Actions 20 of inmates, it can be challenging. But, we take one day 21 at a time and we don't ever try to take our work home with 22 us. That's a big no-no. 116 1 MS. CHUNN: How many people do you lose before 2 their first anniversary? 3 MR. CORRAL: Staff? 4 MS. CHUNN: Staff, thank you. 5 MR. CORRAL: I don't exactly quite know the 6 answer to that question. I do know that since Warden 7 Ezell has been on board our staff numbers have definitely 8 climbed and the turnover has definitely decreased 9 tremendously. 10 MS. CHUNN: When people left before Warden Ezell 11 came, what reasons did they give for leaving? 12 MR. CORRAL: That is -- I couldn't answer that. 13 MS. CHUNN: You don't do exit interviews? 14 MR. CORRAL: No. I'm not part of that. 15 MS. CHUNN: Okay. Are they done anywhere? They 16 are done somewhere, but that information generally does 17 not come to you? 18 MR. CORRAL: I usually don't ask my supervisors. 19 MS. CHUNN: And how many people, staffers, have 20 you had to discipline in the last year? 21 MR. CORRAL: Zero, even in 2007, I believe. 22 Maybe it was one. I think I had one. 117 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I'm confused. You 2 testified that one of your correctional officers resigned 3 over allegations of inappropriate relationship with an 4 inmate. 5 MR. CORRAL: I mentioned that's what I understood 6 through hearsay. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 8 MR. CORRAL: But as far as on a fact, I don't. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: So as far as your last answer, 10 you haven't disciplined anybody because you are not 11 involved in any discipline. Is that your testimony? 12 MR. CORRAL: That wasn't the question she asked. 13 It was just if I had ever disciplined anybody within the 14 last year; that the discipline, I believe, can also range 15 from verbal communication to requesting termination. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, so what do you pass up the 17 chain of command and what discipline do you handle at your 18 level? 19 MR. CORRAL: Matters pertaining to the unit 20 operations that are within my scope of responsibilities. 21 I can handle those and anything that pertains to areas 22 that affect other departments or major security breaches. 118 1 I sometimes pass those on. I pass them on, and depending 2 who needs to be involved, then it's communicated to those 3 individuals. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And would sexual assault among 5 inmates qualify as something that you would handle or 6 something you'd pass up? 7 MR. CORRAL: That would be definitely passed up. 8 There would be more individuals involved, but there would 9 be certain individuals also that would be passed up to. 10 I wouldn't broadcast it. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure, and I think I earlier asked 12 about whether either of you had become aware of sexual 13 misconduct by staff. I want to ask about incidence of 14 sexual assault or intimacy among inmates, inmate-on-inmate 15 sexual assault. Are you aware of any instance, whether it 16 be based on hearsay or actually firsthand report of sexual 17 assault among inmates in your facility in '07? 18 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 19 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And so that was in unit 6 or unit 21 5? 22 MR. CORRAL: Either, I believe it was probably 6. 119 1 I could tell you for certain it was definitely 5 or 6. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, and unit 6 were the New 3 Mexico inmates, right? 4 MR. CORRAL: 5A and 6. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And 5D as well? Is that right? 6 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. You can't remember where 8 the instance came from? 9 MR. CORRAL: It was probably the 600 block. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And were there more than 11 one in '07? 12 MR. CORRAL: Not to my recollection. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what did you do with 14 that allegation? 15 MR. CORRAL: I don't believe it was brought to me 16 originally, the allegation. I believe that it was handled 17 by a staff member whenever it went through the 18 disciplinary process. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: So you did not handle it? You 20 were not part of the chain of custody of that complaint? 21 MR. CORRAL: During that specific event, I 22 believe it was handled appropriately through the shortest 120 1 method to get the situation resolved in, whoever the 2 primary individuals were. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. My question is your 4 involvement in it. Did you just hear about it after the 5 fact or did you receive a note, an informal grievance? 6 MR. CORRAL: After the fact. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: After the fact. Okay. And can 8 you tell me the facts of that inmate-on-inmate event in 9 '07? 10 MR. CORRAL: I'd have to take a look at the 11 misconduct report. I wasn't directly involved in that. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: So your testimony is you just 13 heard about some sexual assault between inmates in your 14 unit 6 happened, and you found out about that after the 15 fact? 16 MR. CORRAL: I wasn't present at the time that 17 the actual incident occurred. So it was after the fact, 18 and the process that got handled went through the 19 disciplinary process. At no point in time after I found 20 out after the fact did I willfully intervene and request. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: When did you learn of it after 22 the event? 121 1 MR. CORRAL: Sir, I couldn't tell you right now. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: A month, six months? 3 MR. CORRAL: I don't think so, sir. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Or it was the next morning? 5 MR. CORRAL: To be honest with you sir, I 6 couldn't tell you that right now, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: But it was a real important 8 event. Is that right? 9 MR. CORRAL: It's a very really important event, 10 sir. But I am under oath and to say that I heard about it 11 within less than an hour, to say I heard about it within 12 less than this period of time, I can't be honest with you 13 on that right now. I don't recall. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: When you come in on your shift, 15 you do the day shift. Is that right? 16 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is there any kind of a 18 post briefing? Does your night shift supervisor brief you 19 on what, if anything happened during the night shift? 20 MR. CORRAL: We have daily meetings where we meet 21 in the conference room, and all the paperwork 22 documentation from the night before is reviewed. It 122 1 includes disciplinary reports, anything that goes on. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And is that how you learned of 3 this? 4 MR. CORRAL: I don't believe so. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: You do not believe so? 6 MR. CORRAL: I don't believe so. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: So how did you hear of this? I 8 understand you can't say exactly when you learned of it, 9 but how did you learn of it? 10 MR. CORRAL: A staff member probably brought it 11 to my attention after the staff member caught what was 12 going on. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? After the staff 14 member? 15 MR. CORRAL: Witnessed whatever happened. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you remember which staff 17 member it was? I'm not asking to name them, but do you 18 remember who it was that told you? 19 MR. CORRAL: If I can look at the documentation, 20 probably I'll find some. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: So, if this was a consensual 22 romantic relationship and not a forcible one, does that 123 1 still violate the New Mexico law as you understood it in 2 '07? 3 MR. CORRAL: There were acts that could be 4 handled internally, and some externally in 2007. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And who decided which were which? 6 MR. CORRAL: I believe it was part of the policy 7 as far as on disciplinary infractions on what was there 8 and what the disciplinary. I believe there was a specific 9 policy also for that pertaining to findings. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, what was the nature 11 of this inmate-on-inmate sexual event that you learned of 12 from one of your correctional officers sometime in '07? 13 MR. CORRAL: If I remember it correctly, it had 14 something to do with fellatio and the individual that 15 witnessed it. If I'm thinking correctly, that officer is 16 also a seasoned officer and has a very good communication 17 with me, so it was within a short period of time that that 18 officer would have probably notified me. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, but I'm talking about the 20 facts of the sexual event. Did you say it was consensual 21 as you understood it? 22 MR. CORRAL: It didn't state that. I mentioned 124 1 I believed it was fellatial. I wasn't involved during the 2 whole process. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, you think it was a false 4 report? 5 MR. CORRAL: No. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: "Fellatial"? I'm sorry. 7 MR. CORRAL: Oral sex. I apologize. 8 MS. CHUNN: We're working with him. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: As you understood the law in '07, 10 is that a crime for two inmates to engage in oral sex? 11 MR. CORRAL: I believe any sexual act starts off 12 originally as the crime gets investigated and then the 13 process gets followed, however it's set up. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, that wasn't my question. 15 My question is: was that a crime? For two of your 16 inmates to be engaged in oral sex, was it a crime? 17 MR. CORRAL: Sir, I can't answer that question 18 honestly. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: What would you need to know in 20 order to? 21 MR. CORRAL: Law interested me one time, but I 22 decided I wasn't going to become a lawyer. And so there's 125 1 a lot of definitions on what could constitute a crime. 2 But what I do know is that process will be addressed 3 seriously and it will be taken in. And once that 4 information is assembled and gathered, then there are 5 policies and procedures that will be followed. But, for 6 me to say, I can't sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And you don't remember the 8 details of the event without reviewing the record? 9 MR. CORRAL: I personally wasn't involved with 10 it, sir. I'd have to review the record to make sure. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And was this a common event for 12 you to get a report like this? 13 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And if I told you that it is a 15 felony for any sexual act like that to occur between 16 inmates, would that surprise you? 17 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Did you frequently get 19 word from your staff that felonies had occurred on the 20 nightshift when you weren't there and was this a common 21 occurrence in 2007? 22 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 126 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is it fair to say that it 2 kind of wasn't your job? I mean, if something serious is 3 reported, as long as it's gone up the food chain, you'll 4 hear about it. But nobody's asking you questions and you 5 don't need to know. So that's kind of the end of your 6 involvement? 7 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. I believe it's everybody's 8 responsibility when it comes to any crimes to include 9 sexual harassment or violations. I believe that each of 10 us have outlined duties, and I believe that within our 11 areas we do what needs to be done, and then from there the 12 information gets processed to the next level. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you ever have any discussion 14 at any time after this inmate-on-inmate event with your 15 staff about lessons that can be learned from it? But you 16 specifically recall sitting down with your staff and 17 saying, we had a felony occur in our unit? And this is 18 what happened, and this is what we're going to do about it 19 to prevent it from happening again? 20 MR. CORRAL: As far as those words exactly, no, 21 sir; I didn't discuss this was a felony. Topics that 22 would have probably came up in the next day's meeting, 127 1 where more frequent observations of locations where it 2 occurred, and just to remain alert. But as far as saying 3 a fourth-degree felony occurred, no sir. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And did you request more 5 supervision, more correctional officers? Did you tell the 6 Warden, "I could really use a third rover or somebody 7 physically seated during the night shift in any of the six 8 pods?" 9 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Why not? I take it if you 11 thought it was necessary you would have, right? 12 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, were there any lessons 14 to be learned from that event? 15 MR. CORRAL: Maybe installing the camera that we 16 talked about that, yes, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you ask the warden for a 18 camera in unit 6? 19 MR. CORRAL: I'll be asking him for some cameras 20 after this hearing. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: So I guess that's a no? 22 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 128 1 MR. MCFARLAND: In '07 I was told that the 2 turnover rate was 40% among staff. It's now 23%. Do you 3 have any idea why there would be such a high turnover 4 during '07? Captain? 5 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Why? 7 MR. LUCERO: Staff morale was down. The staff 8 wanted more pay. Between '07 and now, we've gotten our 9 annual raise that we get every year and we got another 10 raise for all the staff. Staff morale now is way better 11 than it was. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: What was the starting hourly 13 raise for a correctional officer before this '07 raise? 14 MR. LUCERO: I believe it was $10.89. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: $10.89 an hour? 16 MR. LUCERO: I believe, yes, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And now what is it? 18 MR. LUCERO: $11.89. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Is $10.87 a competitive wage for 20 someone in Torrance County? 21 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. You can live on that? 129 1 MR. LUCERO: Depending on your own individual 2 bills, yeah. 3 MS. CHUNN: Captain, we know that pay is only one 4 incentive. Actually, it's not the number one incentive. 5 Talk to me about how the work culture changed with Warden 6 Ezell. Was there anything different in how people were 7 treated or the direction that you were given on how to 8 interact with your staff and how to interact with top 9 management? 10 MR. LUCERO: Our company CCA put out a front-line 11 leadership training that Mr. Ezell makes every lieutenant, 12 sergeant, lieutenant, captain, department head go through 13 it. Before, in 2007, we didn't have that. Earlier in 14 2007 we didn't have that training. This training just 15 came about. It teaches us how to speak to our staff 16 without degrading staff, without listening to staff so 17 that staff know we're paying attention and not just 18 pretending we're hearing them and letting it go out one 19 ear and in another. 20 It taught us how to work better with the staff, 21 to treat our staff with respect, treat the staff better. 22 So we have that leadership that we went through, and the 130 1 pay, and that's basically all we've done. I mean, it goes 2 a long way talking to the staff. Learning how to talk to 3 staff with respect goes a long way. And my own personal 4 opinions, I mean, that changed. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Is overtime frequent at your 6 facility? 7 MR. LUCERO: In 2007 yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: It was in '07? 9 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Would you agree with that 11 Mr. Corral? 12 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And was this mandatory 14 overtime? Was anybody frozen after a shift? Was this a 15 regular occurrence? 16 MR. LUCERO: Being that we worked 12-hour shifts, 17 it was mandatory. And those shift supervisors would fill 18 out their rosters a week in advance and e-mail the other 19 shift supervisor from the opposite shift, how many people 20 he needed for the month or for the week. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And in your experience, 22 Mr. Corral, in '07 in unit 6 among the New Mexico 131 1 prisoners, how often did you have those rovers or your 2 unit command monitor have to do mandatory overtime? 3 MR. CORRAL: It was a combination of meeting with 4 the captains. We have the same correctional officers, and 5 then it's determined. There's mandatory four hours of 6 extra built-in overtime with the 12-hour shifts, three 7 days, one week, four days the next week, comes out to 48 8 per week. So there was mandatory four hours per week. If 9 there were shortages and stuff then unit managers and 10 captains met to figure out what the schedule for the 11 correctional officer was going to be. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And how often would a 13 correctional officer have to work 24 hours, in other 14 words, two shifts, two full shifts? Did that ever occur? 15 MR. CORRAL: Not to my knowledge. 16 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So overtime looked like 18 staying an extra four hours after a shift? 19 MR. LUCERO: It was either 4 or 12, and it's not 20 staying over twelve. It would be calling the people that 21 are on their days off to come in and work a 12-hour shift. 22 So no staff member works over 16. 132 1 MR. MCFARLAND: No staff member in '07 worked 2 over 16 continuous hours. Is that right? 3 MR. LUCERO: Right, to my knowledge. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Is there any mandatory overtime 5 now? 6 MR. LUCERO: Yes, but it's not as much as it was 7 in '07. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Are you fully staffed? 9 MR. LUCERO: Almost. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: How many more do you need? How 11 close are you? 12 MR. LUCERO: I think, I don't know the exact 13 number, but I would say approximately three. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Three correctional officers? 15 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Across? 17 MR. LUCERO: Not counting our 15 that we 18 requested. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, and that's across 14 shifts 20 a week? Is that right? 21 MR. LUCERO: Fourteen shifts? 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Two shifts a day, seven days a 133 1 week? 2 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Mr. Corral? 4 MR. CORRAL: I would pretty much agree with him, 5 yes. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: We've talked about profiles of 7 victims and predators. One profile we didn't ask about 8 was what are the characteristics of an inmate who is a 9 victim of sexual misconduct with an officer. Who is the 10 inmate who might be successful in seducing a correctional 11 officer into some compromising sexual relationship? 12 MR. CORRAL: It could possibly be an individual 13 that has a lengthy sentence, a lot of time remaining. It 14 could be an individual that has some psychology behind 15 him. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: What do you mean by that, sir? 17 MR. CORRAL: He maybe has some studies on human 18 behavior, different development stages, how people process 19 things. It could be an individual that accidentally 20 stumbled across it and said something. And realized, oh, 21 my gosh, I'm going to get in trouble and found out the 22 response was different and said, well, what can I try? 134 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So, for example, in that last 2 point the individual almost accidentally the inmate says, 3 "Gee, you are looking good today" to a female officer. 4 And rather than getting written up the officer responds 5 positively? 6 MR. CORRAL: That could be a scenario. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that what you have in mind? 8 I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. Is that what 9 you mean by stumble across a positive response? 10 MR. CORRAL: That would work. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And from your experience, 12 Mr. Crowley, is there a racial component? Is there a 13 physical stature component? Is there a gender component 14 or any of those factors relevant in your opinion relevant 15 to the profile of a staff-on-inmate "victim?" 16 MR. CORRAL: I believe anybody could fit that 17 profile. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Captain? 19 MR. LUCERO: I agree. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Anybody could entice a 21 correctional officer into a compromising sexual 22 relationship? Other than a long sentence and maybe some 135 1 familiarity with human behavior or psychology and possibly 2 stumbling on a positive response to a sexualized or 3 romantic comment, was there anything else that you want 4 your people to look for? 5 MR. LUCERO: They may try to be your friend 6 asking you for personal favors. Right now, it starts off 7 slow. "Oh, let me have a gum," or "Let me go to the 8 yard," even though they stopped yard call. Then it's 9 going to get into some bigger. And then when they're 10 going to say, "Bring in dope, you bring in dope." After 11 that, "You're going to give me some, or I'm telling you 12 bring in dope." Most people cannot afford to lose their 13 jobs, so they do it. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And when has that occurred at 15 Torrance? 16 MR. LUCERO: To my knowledge, never. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And do you know any of the facts 18 of the sexual relationship that lost their job that Mr. 19 Corral was referring to earlier? 20 MR. LUCERO: No, like I said, that happened on a 21 day shift and I was on the night shift. And you hear 22 about it, but you hear: did you know so and so, or did you 136 1 know that happened? They quit. 2 MS. CHUNN: To either one of you, with which unit 3 do you have the most interface on almost a daily basis? 4 MR. LUCERO: The more what? 5 MS. CHUNN: With which unit of the other units? 6 Let me rephrase that. Which area, like medical or 7 culinary, or whatever, the other services provided at the 8 facility, with which one do you have the most interface on 9 a daily basis? 10 MR. CORRAL: Mine was I would have to say pretty 11 equal. On a weekly basis, we had committee that we had 12 representatives from various departments that would come 13 in and we'd review the files. We had medical staff 14 present also for individuals that needed programming 15 assignments to determine whether they'd be eligible to 16 work the kitchen. Ones that were ILP mandated or who said 17 they had a GED but needed the verification, we had 18 education representatives. And if we had other 19 departments that weren't in that weekly meeting, we met up 20 with them at least once a week, whether it pertained to 21 passing out commissary or my interaction with other 22 departments was pretty regular. 137 1 MR. LUCERO: The same for ours; department head 2 meetings. When I conduct my rounds I visit everybody: 3 culinary, kitchen -- I mean commissary, medical -- and I 4 talk to everyone, make sure everything is going good with 5 everybody else. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: What does IELP-mandated mean? 7 What does that stand for? 8 MR. CORRAL: The illiteracy program, meaning if 9 you don't have a GED. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: You mentioned contraband. Is it 11 fair to say that once an inmate has got an officer to 12 bring in contraband, that inmate pretty much owns that 13 officer? Is that a yes, Captain? 14 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you agree with that, 16 Mr. Corral? 17 MR. CORRAL: I would say that in your example 18 that is a possibility, but by the same token, that could 19 be enough to just have a person quit their job before they 20 get themselves further involved, so I believe there's a 21 number of possibilities that could come out of that. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: How does contraband get into your 138 1 facility? And let's talk about August '07 when you had 2 211 New Mexico long-term state convicts. Did they have 3 contact visitation? 4 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral? 6 (No response.) 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Did any of them do work release? 8 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 9 MR. CORRAL: No. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What are other ways, other 11 than contact visitation that you think contraband could 12 have got in to unit 6 or unit 5? 13 MR. LUCERO: One thing I'd like to clarify is 14 that I am hearing that we're saying that contraband did 15 come in. That's what I'm receiving on this side. I'm not 16 aware of that, contraband coming in. Speaking in general 17 terms of ways that contraband can enter a correctional 18 facility, it could be by visits, mail. It could be staff. 19 There could be numerous ways that it can be introduced; 20 but, once again, I don't have no recollection specifically 21 saying that contraband was introduced to my floor. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Fair enough. Different 139 1 question -- it's not general. How can contraband come 2 into any facility? And it's not how did it get into as a 3 matter of fact into your unit? Different question, given 4 your knowledge of the unit, how might contraband most 5 likely get into your unit in '07 when you had several 6 hundred state convicts? 7 MR. LUCERO: How might it come in? I would 8 probably have to say through visitation. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Any other way that you 10 think it could happen? 11 MR. LUCERO: It could happen through staff 12 members. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Are staff searched when they come 14 to work? Were they in '07, any of your staff in unit 5 or 15 6 ever searched? 16 MR. LUCERO: We had random where, all staff 17 members -- We didn't know the date or when it was going to 18 happen. We had metal detectors also, and where we cleared 19 to go through and we also have a drug dog. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And was that daily, the metal 21 detector was daily? 22 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 140 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. The dog was not daily? 2 MR. LUCERO: No. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And the random searches were not 4 daily? 5 MR. LUCERO: Correct. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, assuming there was any 7 contraband coming in in '07 to unit 5 or 6, where else do 8 you think you would want to look to stop it? You 9 mentioned contact visitation, staff, any other means by 10 which contraband most likely came into your facility if it 11 did at all? Did anybody throw anything into the yard? 12 They have access to outside yard, the New Mexico long 13 termers? 14 MR. LUCERO: Yes, they have access to the yard. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 16 MR. LUCERO: The yard from the highway is. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Far? 18 MR. LUCERO: Yeah. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: You've got to have a real good 20 arm to throw something in there? 21 MR. LUCERO: Hm-hmm. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Brett Favre would have 141 1 difficulty. 2 (Laughter.) 3 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Okay. Searches and 4 pat-downs in '07, were you allowed to strip-search state 5 convicts? 6 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: In what circumstances? 8 MR. LUCERO: When they were complete with their 9 visit; when they came back from transport; when they came 10 back from trailer visits, conjugal visits; when they came 11 back from court. 12 MR. CORRAL: Food service, cell shake-downs. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Cell shake-downs could 14 involve a strip search? 15 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 16 MR. LUCERO: When they're done in the kitchen. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. And who among the state 18 convicts could have a conjugal visit, Mr. Corral? 19 MR. CORRAL: State inmates? 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, any of them. 21 MR. CORRAL: If they met the criteria, yes, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. What was the 142 1 criteria? 2 MR. CORRAL: Had to have an 'x' amount of time 3 without infractions, depending on the offenses, charges. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And where were those 5 conjugal visits allowed? 6 MR. CORRAL: They were allowed adjacent to the 7 facility. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Outside the wire? 9 MR. CORRAL: Yes. In another secured environment 10 that had more wire around it. 11 MS. CHUNN: Were those the trailers? 12 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: That's the trailers that are near 14 the number 17. Is that right, across from unit 7? 15 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And it's your testimony that 17 after the conjugal visits they would routinely be 18 strip-searched? 19 MR. LUCERO: They'd come back in through the 20 intake office into the intake unit and they'd get 21 strip-searched. They'd get sent back to the house. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral, was that your 143 1 experience with your state convicts that they were 2 routinely strip-searched after conjugal visits? 3 MR. CORRAL: Absolutely. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And could female officers 5 participate in a strip-search of a male inmate? 6 MR. CORRAL: No. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: You're shaking your head as well. 8 Except in an emergency, I take it? 9 MR. LUCERO: No. It's been my experience in all 10 my years in corrections that a female staff member never 11 strip searches a male inmate. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral, has your experience 13 been the same or different? 14 MR. CORRAL: Female inmates don't strip search 15 male inmates? 16 MR. MCFARLAND: No, I'm sorry. It was the female 17 inmates. I must have misspoken. Can female officers ever 18 participate in the strip search of a male inmate? 19 MR. CORRAL: Participate to what degree? Help me 20 understand it. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Can they be present when an 22 inmate is strip-searched, a male inmate? 144 1 MR. CORRAL: They can be in a unit, not inside 2 the cell. Once they had made a strip search and he has 3 his boxers back on or clothing, he can come out so she can 4 then monitor the individual. But as far as actually 5 participating in it, no. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: As far as participating in it, 7 the answer is no? A female officer does not participate 8 in it; does not view the strip search? 9 MR. CORRAL: No. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what about the flip 11 side? What about male officers involved in 12 strip-searching a female inmate? Can that occur at your 13 facility? 14 MR. CORRAL: No. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Is your answer no? 16 MR. CORRAL: "No." 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And pat-downs, what gender of 18 officer can pat-down what gender of inmate? 19 MR. LUCERO: A male can pat down a male inmate. 20 A female staff member can pat down a male inmate and a 21 female inmate. 22 MR. CORRAL: I agree. 145 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So a male officer can pat down a 2 female inmate? 3 MR. LUCERO: No. No, a male officer can only pat 4 down a male inmate. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 6 MR. LUCERO: A female officer can pat down a male 7 inmate and a female inmate. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Gotcha. Are you comfortable with 9 that from a security standpoint? 10 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 11 MR. CORRAL: I am fine with it. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. We are going to break 13 for lunch. 14 (A lunch recess was taken.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 146 1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Gentlemen, I've just handed you 3 a set of documents produced by the Torrance County 4 facility relating to another staff member in '07 who was 5 evidently involved in a sexual relationship with an 6 inmate. Are you familiar with this incident, either of 7 you? 8 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 9 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Gentlemen, could you just walk us 11 through a hypothetical, sexual assault complaint. In '07 12 before the New Mexico inmates left, if you had received 13 word about a sexual assault occurring, be it staff and 14 inmate-or-inmate on inmate, what would you or your staff 15 do? I'll start with you, Mr. Corral. 16 MR. CORRAL: Once I received the information, we 17 would separate the individuals, make sure they're not in 18 the population security area or crime scene preservation. 19 Contact mental health department as well as the medical 20 department, and I would definitely have my supervisors 21 involved also from the get go.. 22 // 147 1 EXAMINATION (RESUMED) 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And by separating the 3 individual, you mean the alleged victim? 4 MR. CORRAL: As well as, if possible, the 5 perpetrator. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And where would you put the perp? 7 MR. CORRAL: Could be more secured housing 8 environment, but not in the location of where the 9 hypothetical incident occurred. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And this process that you just 11 described, is your understanding of the way it was 12 supposed to be done before this new 14-2 policy came out. 13 Is that right? 14 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Captain, do you have any 16 different understanding of what the process should have 17 been? 18 MR. LUCERO: No, sir, I agree. That's how we 19 would handle it. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And it's your testimony that 21 neither of you had occasion to go through that process 22 that you've just described in 2007? 148 1 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 2 MR. CORRAL: Not to my recollection. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And, Mr. Corral, when you say 4 "not to my recollection," this was not a common 5 occurrence. Is that correct? 6 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And depending on the facts, this 8 could be involving a felony. Is that right? 9 MR. CORRAL: That's correct. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And it's certainly a disciplinary 11 infraction that would require some action on your part 12 towards the inmates involved. Is that correct? 13 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: So, given that important the fact 15 that you're in the people business, is it fair to say that 16 you would darn well remember if you've ever had that kind 17 of a report in your experience at Torrance County? 18 MR. CORRAL: If I had helped with that, yes, sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, in the new policy on 20 page 4, it's talking about screening procedures and under 21 3B at the top of page 4 under victimization history, it 22 reads: "If at intake it is discovered that an 149 1 inmate/resident has a history of being raped or sexually 2 assaulted, the inmate resident will be housed in the "most 3 appropriate available setting and referred to mental 4 health staff for evaluation and counseling." 5 What is your present understanding of the most 6 appropriate available setting for the alleged victim of a 7 sexual assault? 8 MR. LUCERO: Protective custody. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Sorry? 10 MR. LUCERO: Protective custody. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And where would that be? 12 MR. LUCERO: Segregation. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, and where's segregation 14 now? 15 MR. LUCERO: Five 'Boy', 'Charles,' or 'David.' 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And how would that have differed 17 prior to the adoption of this policy? Would you have done 18 anything different? Would you have answered differently? 19 MR. LUCERO: No, sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: So you believe that protective 21 custody is the most appropriate available setting for an 22 alleged victim. Is that right? 150 1 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 2 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is it true in unit 4 where 4 you have the 36 women's beds that those cells have a 5 button intercom that goes to master control. Isn't that 6 right? 7 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 8 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Are you familiar with it 10 Mr. Corral? 11 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So what's the purpose of 13 that button? 14 MR. LUCERO: To contact central control. If they 15 need anything and the officer is not there, if the officer 16 went into the port for a certain reason, to use the phone, 17 grab paperwork for them or something, and something 18 happens, that's what the button is there for. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. If that is a good idea for 20 the women's cells, any reason why you wouldn't want to 21 have that in the males' cells just rather than trying to 22 install 900 video cameras? What about having a panic 151 1 button? What about having an intercom? 2 MR. LUCERO: The male units have an intercom. 3 And instead of going to master controls, it goes to the 4 housing unit. The only unit that doesn't have an intercom 5 system is the open-base, 2 'Adam' and 2 'Boy', the open 6 units, open housing. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh yeah, okay. 8 MR. LUCERO: Those don't have personal intercoms, 9 but they have the intercom in the unit where they can 10 press it and speak to the mast warrant control officer. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: What do you think of that 12 intercom system? Is that a good idea or do you get all 13 kinds of harassing nonsense sort of buzzings? 14 MR. LUCERO: No. I like it. You can hear what 15 the inmates are talking about when they are talking in the 16 cell. You just turn it on and you can hear them, whatever 17 they're talking about. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: They don't have to hit the 19 button? 20 MR. LUCERO: We can turn it off from the control. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: So you can eavesdrop on any 22 inmate at any time other than those in 2A and B? 152 1 MR. LUCERO: Yes, sir. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral, do you think that's 3 a good idea? 4 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, in the material produced by 6 the warden, there are nine disciplinary report 7 investigation forms, four of them involving allegations of 8 male prisoners involved sexually with female correction 9 officers, three of them male-on-male inmate sexual 10 activity and three involving female inmates and two 11 involving male inmates; and, yet, there are no incident 12 reports relating to those. I don't believe. Have you had 13 a chance in preparation for your testimony to review any 14 disciplinary reports from 2007 relating to sexual assault? 15 MR. LUCERO: Yes. 16 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you looked at those 18 nine? 19 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Which of those do you have some 21 personal knowledge of, starting with you, Capt. Lucero? 22 We can work through them individually if there are more 153 1 than one. 2 MR. LUCERO: No. I wasn't the shift supervisor 3 on shift the day of those disciplinary reports. So I 4 don't have any knowledge of it. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: On any of the nine? 6 MR. LUCERO: On any of the nine. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Mr. Corral? 8 MR. CORRAL: I would probably have had the 9 knowledge of the one that occurred on my floor, which was 10 inmate-on-inmate, or inmate and inmate and staff-on- 11 inmate. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you have those DRs? Or, 13 Warden, do you have the disciplinary reports? 14 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. I do. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you mind lending them to 16 Mr. Corral? 17 (The witness examined the document.) 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you just look through them 19 and identify it by case number or inmate number, but not 20 by name the sexual incidents of which you have personal 21 knowledge? 22 MR. CORRAL: The first one I'm looking at is log 154 1 number 11, 2007, 025. The second one I'm looking at is 2 log number 11, 2007, 026. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Any others, sir? 4 MR. CORRAL: These are the two that I have right 5 here, sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Those are the two of the nine 7 that you have in front of you that you have some personal 8 knowledge of. Is that correct? 9 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. With respect to 025, this 11 is the inmate is a male. The report is that he was 12 involved in giving oral sex to another male inmate in the 13 chapel. Is that correct? 14 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: One or both of the inmates were 16 from your units. Is that correct? 17 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. How did two inmates get 19 alone in the chapel? I think you indicated that the 20 religious services are typically in the room off the 21 hallway where there are windows. Was it common practice 22 for inmates to be able to be alone in the chapel? 155 1 MR. CORRAL: They have, yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So it just happened that 3 one of the rovers or some other staff member happened by, 4 looked through the window and saw what was going on 5 inside? 6 MR. CORRAL: Correct. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And what action did you take, if 8 any, in light of this incident? 9 MR. CORRAL: I wasn't involved in this incident, 10 sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So when did you first 12 learn of this? 13 MR. CORRAL: It would have probably been that 14 same day from the officer. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And so the officer is 16 supposed to handle this matter? It doesn't go through 17 you? Is that correct? 18 MR. CORRAL: This only went through the 19 disciplinary process, and means were probably placed in 20 segregation and the disciplinary process to effect. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What was your involvement 22 in it? 156 1 MR. CORRAL: I wasn't involved in that, sir. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So was this an unusual 3 event, or do you typically not have any involvement in a 4 disciplinary infraction of this nature involving a felony 5 between two inmates? 6 MR. CORRAL: It goes through the disciplinary 7 process. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: That wasn't my question. Do you 9 have any involvement in the disciplinary process? 10 MR. CORRAL: No. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: You don't? Okay. And did you 12 think after learning of this incident that anything should 13 change about your level of involvement in the disciplinary 14 process or did you think this was just fine? It was 15 handled just fine and you don't need to have any 16 involvement in it? 17 MR. CORRAL: We probably discussed during our 18 meetings about doing more frequent rounds in areas that 19 incidents could occur. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: You probably did, or do you 21 remember having such a discussion with your staff? 22 MR. CORRAL: At this time, right now, no. I 157 1 don't recall. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you have any other 3 recollection of this event other than what you've already 4 testified to? 5 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And incident 7 11-2007-02:26, an incident occurring on December 3, '07. 8 No. It was earlier than that. That's just the date of 9 one of the documents. Date of the incident, November 11, 10 2007, and this is another allegation of a female officer 11 on a security check of religious services observing a male 12 New Mexico inmate engaged in a sexual act with another 13 inmate. Is that correct? 14 MR. CORRAL: I believe it's the same report. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Different number, same event? 16 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you have any idea why it had 18 different log numbers? 19 MR. CORRAL: Two different reports, each one was 20 assigned a tracking number. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So this is the only event 22 of the nine that were produced to us that you have any 158 1 personal knowledge about. Is that right? 2 MR. CORRAL: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Where does the hotline go? I'm 4 talking about as it was in '07 you had a tip line that 5 anybody could make an anonymous phone call. Who would 6 answer that? 7 MR. CORRAL: STG Department, Security Threat 8 Group Department. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: The serious threat group 10 supervisor? 11 MR. LUCERO: Security Threat Group. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And in '07, who would that have 13 been? 14 MR. LUCERO: Chris Rhoades or Joseph Garcia, or 15 Chris Rhoades. They were the two STG coordinators in '07. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And could the caller leave a 17 message? I assume that person was always just sitting by 18 the phone? 19 MR. CORRAL: Yeah, yes sir. It's recorded and 20 you leave the message. And then you go log-in, you have 21 to have the pass code to log-in, and you can hear the 22 phone call, and you can hear what they're saying. 159 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So it was password protected? 2 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Is there anything you would want 4 to do differently about having that hotline access 5 somebody outside the facility? In other words, a rape 6 crisis center, hospital, or the Torrance County Sheriff's 7 Office sex crime unit or anybody like that? 8 MR. CORRAL: No. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you remember a 10 correction officer being; a female being escorted out of 11 the facility on February 10, 2007, on a Saturday during 12 the second shift, Captain? 13 MR. CORRAL: That was on the opposite shift from 14 when I was working. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Did either of you ever hear about 16 a female officer accused of having an inappropriate sexual 17 relationship with an inmate being escorted out of the 18 facility? 19 MR. LUCERO: No. 20 MR. CORRAL: No, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Among the banter that you like to 22 promote so it's a fun and personable place, would there 160 1 ever be occasion to talk about an event like that? I 2 mean, would that be the kind of thing that would come up 3 if one of your team was shown the door, escorted out, and 4 accused of committing a felony? 5 MR. LUCERO: No. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: It wouldn't come up? 7 MR. LUCERO: We just tell them at briefing, so 8 and so no longer works here. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And nobody would ask why? 10 MR. CORRAL: During our annual trainings and 11 in-service trainings it's made clear the do's and don'ts. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: So nobody asks? 13 MR. LUCERO: No. They don't ask. And, if they 14 ask, we don't know. I don't know that so and so got 15 terminated or got prosecuted or got thrown in jail because 16 they did something. We don't know that. I mean, as a 17 shift supervisor I won't know that. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And the administration isn't 19 informing you, right? 20 MR. LUCERO: No. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Have either of you ever 22 worked in a publicly-owned jail? 161 1 MR. LUCERO: No. 2 MR. CORRAL: Juveniles. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And how did that facility differ 4 in any way from the current facility that you work in in 5 terms of staffing, in terms of facilities, programming, 6 number of video cameras, procedure, policy, anything? 7 MR. LUCERO: I don't believe there were any 8 cameras at the juvenile facility and where I was at. It 9 was direct supervision. There were lodges. It wasn't a 10 whole facility. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: It wasn't? 12 MR. LUCERO: It wasn't a connected facility. It 13 was all lodges. We escorted the residents to and from 14 destinations, took them to the movies on weekends. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: How about staffing levels in 16 terms of ratio of staff to residents? Were they more, 17 less or about the same as Torrance? 18 MR. LUCERO: The lodges were pretty much at a 19 capacity of between 24 and 36. You had one person 20 supervising and usually a correctional 21 counselor/case-manager. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: So in contrast, you've got a unit 162 1 control officer who is trying to conduct visuals on four 2 pods that total almost 160 men, along with the rovers. Is 3 that correct? 4 MR. LUCERO: Correct. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: So, am I inferring from your 6 answer correctly that the staff-to-inmate ratio was higher 7 at the public, juvenile facility in which you worked than 8 Torrance? You had one on 23 as opposed to one constantly 9 on 160 and intermittently? 10 MR. LUCERO: That was the capacity of the lodge 11 that was designed. If it was a much larger complex, I'm 12 sure there could have been more supervision, but the 13 design or the capacity that was allowed was max, something 14 like 36. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: That wasn't my question, but my 16 question is not about what the capacity was but rather the 17 ratio staff-to-inmate ratio. Was it a higher staff-to- 18 inmate ratio at your public facility than the current 19 facility? 20 MR. LUCERO: If the whole total capacity is 36 21 and that makes the whole, then I guess it would be equal. 22 But, if you want to look at it and say there's 36 to one 163 1 staff, then yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Where did the new arrivals from 3 New Mexico and from the County, where were they kept when 4 they first arrived? 5 MR. LUCERO: Booking. They come into booking; 6 the state guys would get intake, classify everything 7 there, move to housing. Medical would come down there to 8 see them. Mental health to come down there and see them. 9 Everybody came to booking for them. The county inmates 10 would get booked-in, dressed out, sent to orientation pod, 11 which is a lock-down pod, until medical went down there 12 and mental health evaluated them; and then classification 13 would classify them and then they would go to the line. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Now it appears they're supposed 15 to be separated until classification happens. Is that 16 right? 17 MR. LUCERO: Hm-hmm. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Corral? 19 MR. CORRAL: With the New Mexico corrections 20 inmates, they're already all level three inmates. They'd 21 go through a previous screening process. So when they 22 arrive at our facility they're all level three. 164 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So, they've already been 2 classified and there's no interim limbo that they have to 3 be placed in? They can go directly into unit 6 or 5? 4 MR. CORRAL: That is correct. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, finally, in the new 6 brochure preventing sexual abuse and misconduct, there's 7 a line in I guess the second page or leaf. The last 8 sentence in the third paragraph says: "Sexual assault 9 does not include incidents in which the intent of the 10 sexual contact is to harm or debilitate rather than 11 sexually exploit." Is that your understanding of the 12 definition of sexual assault? 13 MR. CORRAL: Yes, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Thanks. Well, gentlemen, thank 15 you very much for your testimony. We'll now call the next 16 panel. 17 Mr. Bruce Campbell and Ms. Julianita Aragon. 18 MR. LUCERO: Thank you. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you please raise your right 20 hand? 21 // 22 // 165 1 Whereupon, 2 BRUCE CAMPBELL and JULIANITA ARAGON 3 were called as witnesses, and, having first been 4 duly sworn, were examined and testified as follows: 5 EXAMINATION 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. Please be seated. 7 Ms. Aragon, welcome. What is your full name and 8 title please? 9 MS. ARAGON: Julianita Aragon, classification 10 supervisor. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and how long have you been 12 in that position? 13 MS. ARAGON: Since May of '07. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Could you scoot your microphone 15 up there? And prior to that, what was your position? 16 MS. ARAGON: Accounting clerk. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: In the same facility? 18 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you have any inmate contact 20 as accounting clerk? 21 MS. ARAGON: Minimal. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Were you familiar with a 166 1 policy or procedure on sexual assault prior to becoming 2 classification officer? 3 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, you were? Okay. 5 Mr. Campbell, would you please state your full 6 name and title please? 7 MR. CAMPBELL: Bruce Campbell, health service 8 Administrator. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And how long have you been 10 in that position at Torrance? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: Twelve months. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And prior to that time? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: Health service administrator at 14 another facility. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And which facility was 16 that? 17 MR. CAMPBELL: It was at Cibola County 18 Correctional Center. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And is that in New Mexico? 20 MR. CAMPBELL: That's in New Mexico. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And, Mr. Campbell, what are your 22 qualifications for the job of health services 167 1 administrator? 2 MR. CAMPBELL: Registered nurse and then 3 experience. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Could you talk about your 5 experience a little bit, please? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: I've been a nurse since 1984, an 7 RN. Many years of hospital experience, charge nurse 8 experience, then director of nurses; and then I moved to 9 the health service administrator position. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And when you were director of 11 nurses, that was at a hospital or a correctional facility? 12 MR. CAMPBELL: In New Mexico Women's Correctional 13 Facility. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that the one that's West of 15 Albuquerque? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, it is. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And how long were you director of 18 nurses there? 19 MR. CAMPBELL: That was a year. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And what training if any did you 21 get concerning the particular needs of female inmates? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: I didn't get any special training 168 1 for that. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And when you came to CCA, what 3 training did you receive? When you came to the Torrance 4 County Facility owned by the Corrections Corporation of 5 America, did you receive any training? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: I received one week training in 7 service as just facility in general, and then there was a 8 one-week on the job training. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And your predecessor, 10 Linda Finkelstein, was giving you on the job training? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: No. She did not. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, she didn't? All right, well, 13 who did? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: That was mostly by the nurses that 15 had been there for a number of years. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And who were the nurses 17 that were there prior to you coming there? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: Chris Mason, RN. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And is that Mr. Or Ms. Mason? 20 MR. CAMPBELL: Ms. and Ms. Ann Black, R.N. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Ann Luck? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Black. 169 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Sorry. Anyone else? 2 MR. CAMPBELL: Those are the people that gave me 3 the training. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And did you have a 5 physician at the facility in 2007? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, there was. Dr. Farrell. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did he or she leave? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: December of '07. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And is Dr. Farrell a male or 10 female? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: Male. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Why did Dr. Farrell leave, if you 13 know? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: He was retired; and then he had 15 taken the position there. And then, because of his night 16 vision and because of the drive that he had to come 17 because he lived in Albuquerque, so that became more of an 18 issue for him, so he decided that he would resign. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And was he replaced with another 20 physician? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: He has not been yet. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you know why he hasn't been? 170 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Because we haven't found anyone 2 that will accept a two-day a week position. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what are the hours of 4 that two-day week? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: That's eight hours a day from 8 to 6 5. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And what days? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: That could be any day they want. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you know what 10 compensation is being offered for that position? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, I do. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is it? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: It's $110 an hour. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Why do you suppose in the 10 15 months since Dr. Farrell left you haven't been able to 16 find someone? Is it the money? Is it the drive? Is it 17 the circumstances of being in a jail, or something else? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: I see it as being the drive, the 19 location. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Anything else? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: We were able to get what you call 22 a locums doctor for two months, but that's all the more 171 1 we've been able to fill that position. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: So in the interim, who provides 3 the medical exams? 4 MR. CAMPBELL: We have a nurse practitioner. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is her name? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: Karen Kurst, certified nurse 7 practitioner. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did Ms. Kurst start at 9 Torrance? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: She's been there two years. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Are the RNs permitted to do 12 medical exams? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: No. You're talking about 14 physicals, right? 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 16 MR. CAMPBELL: No. They are not allowed. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So after Dr. Farrell left 18 in December '07, the certified nurse practitioner Kurst 19 was the only individual available who could do a physical 20 exam. Is that right? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: That's correct. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what are her hours? 172 1 MR. CAMPBELL: She worked from 8 in the morning 2 'til 6 in the evening. She's 10-hour shifts, four days a 3 week. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And how far away is a medical 5 facility from Torrance County? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: The closest one is approximately 7 60. Are you talking like a hospital? 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, sir. 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Approximately 60 miles. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: So if someone is in need of a 11 physical exam outside of the four days a week that Ms. 12 Kurst is present, what do you do for that inmate or that 13 staff member? Do you drive them 60 miles, or do the RNs 14 or do you try to minister to them? 15 MR. CAMPBELL: We triage the inmate, see what 16 their problem is. And then we contact Ms. Kurst on the 17 telephone, let her know what our situation is. If it's 18 something that we feel that we cannot handle as an RN, and 19 then she will give us orders whether they need to go to 20 the hospital or what she'd like to have done. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And how many times in your tenure 22 at Torrance have you had to transport somebody the 60 173 1 miles to the hospital? 2 MR. CAMPBELL: Approximately, probably, two times 3 a week. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And who has to go with an inmate? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Officers, depending on their 6 situation, their medical condition. If they can go by 7 van, we'll send them by van. But if they're an emergency 8 situation, then we call the ambulance. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And how many officers need 10 to accompany a sick inmate? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: That's not my department. I don't 12 know. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, you don't need to know. 14 There's a video camera fixed on the pharmacy door. Is 15 that correct? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: That's correct. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you have any cameras anywhere 18 else in the infirmary? 19 MR. CAMPBELL: There's one other camera and one 20 cell in the observation room. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: That would be for a suicidal 22 inmate? 174 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Just someone that we need to 2 observe. The suicide room does not have a camera. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: You have a separate suicide room 4 in the infirmary? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: In the same area. We use one when 6 we do have a suicide case. That person is one on one, so 7 the camera is not warranted because we have somebody right 8 there full time, an officer. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, you have a direct 10 supervision? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: Direct supervision. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: I see. You also have a TV 13 segregation cell in the infirmary, don't you? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. There's one with a TV. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: No. I'm sorry, tuberculosis. 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Oh, yes, the reverse air room. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Negative air flow? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And how many times have you had 20 occasion to use that? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: Approximately twice a year. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And for how long? 175 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Until the person has been ruled 2 out not to have TB. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And is that a direct 4 supervision event as well? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: No. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So the individual is 7 single-celled in the reverse air pressure TB cell? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that correct? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And nobody's observing him or 12 her? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: They're on 30-minute watch. The 14 officer goes around and checks them every 30 minutes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: How many correctional officers do 16 you typically have in the infirmary during the day shift? 17 MR. CAMPBELL: One. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And when I was there I recalled 19 she was posted next to the nurse's station. Is that 20 correct? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that typically where he or she 176 1 is posted? 2 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, in the nurse's station, 3 unless they're doing some outside of that within the 4 medical department. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And how often are they doing 6 something else? 7 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, they're moving inmates, that 8 type of thing. So they just don't sit there at the desk. 9 It's just when they're making sure where the inmates are 10 and moving them around where they need to be. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, and is this the same 12 officer who every 30 minutes supposed to check on the TB 13 patient? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And nobody is directly 16 watching the pharmacy other than the master control 17 monitoring the stationary video. Is that correct? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: That's correct. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And I believe we've already heard 20 some testimony that there's no window on the door to the 21 janitorial supply closet in the infirmary. Is that 22 correct? 177 1 MR. CAMPBELL: That's true. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you recommended there be a 3 window on that? Or do you have an opinion about that? 4 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, I recommended there be a 5 window on that, plus another supply closet. Yes. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: So I take it if they're going to 7 get a medical exam, they're going to be examined by a 8 female, certified nurse practitioner? 9 MR. CAMPBELL: That's true. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Have you had any inmate 11 indicate to you they were uncomfortable being examined by 12 a female? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: No. I have not. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And that's been in your nine or 15 ten months? No, I'm sorry. Twelve months? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Twelve, yeah. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And both of the other nurses in 18 addition to you, both of them are females as well? 19 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Are you comfortable with having 21 only females available to examine around 500 men? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: I'm comfortable with it because 178 1 most all the time they're examined, they usually are on a 2 disrobing down to their waist. Any time they take it any 3 further or are required to take it any further we have 4 another person in there. So that's always a two-person 5 situation if they have to lower their pants. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Are there windows on the exam 7 room doors? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: No, there are not. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And there are no windows on the 10 walls of the exam room, right? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: No. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And so only if an inmate 13 is going to be requested to lower his shorts, is there any 14 requirement for the female nurse to be accompanied by 15 someone else. Is that correct? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: There is no other requirement. 17 Only if they are going to lower their shorts do we require 18 the two persons. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Does that give you any 20 concern that you've got a female nurse out of sight behind 21 a closed door with a male inmate? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: We don't close the doors. We 179 1 operate our exam rooms with the door either all the way 2 open or part-way open unless the inmate is going to have 3 to expose herself. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So there's no shade or 5 curtain? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: No. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Or anything like that? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: No. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Medical exam doors wide open? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: They can be seen at all times. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: The previous place where you were 12 director of nurses, was that a publicly-owned facility? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: No, both of those were CCA-owned. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you ever worked at a 15 publicly-owned facility? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, I did. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And how did the medical 18 facilities there differ, if at all, from your current 19 facility? 20 MR. CAMPBELL: It was basically the same. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: How about access to doctors? Did 22 your previous publicly-owned infirmary have a doctor for 180 1 16 hours a week? 2 MR. CAMPBELL: It was a larger facility. They 3 had a nurse practitioner, male. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: What were his hours? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: At this time I don't remember. 6 That was in 1986, so I don't remember his hours. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Can you remember if they were 8 full-time or part-time? 9 MR. CAMPBELL: They were full-time. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And no doctor? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: No. I don't recall a doctor. 12 That was at the Durango jail in Phoenix, Arizona. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you or any of your nurses or 14 nurse practitioner Kurst have training as a SANE nurse, a 15 sexual assault nurse examiner? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: At the present time, we do not. 17 We are looking into that, because this was fairly new to 18 us as far as the SANE, being able to get SANE 19 certification. So we have identified where we can get 20 that training, and it's my plan to have the nurse 21 practitioner go to that course. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. Go ahead. 181 1 MS. ELLIS: Excuse me. Mr. Campbell, on that 2 same line with the SANE nursing, the sexual assault 3 nursing examiner, let me ask you as a professional medical 4 person, what do you know about the impact of sexual 5 assault on an individual? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: I think it's devastating to them. 7 Their life is already being changed by being in prison, 8 but then you drastically change it more negatively. 9 MS. ELLIS: Anything in terms of males and 10 females and how the impact may differ, what the issues may 11 be specific to women? 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, I think it can impact women 13 differently, because they have the possibility of becoming 14 pregnant, if it's that type of assault. It could have an 15 impact on their family or what would happen when they go 16 back home or just their whole life. 17 MS. ELLIS: And concerns about STDs and HIV? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, that type of thing too. 19 MS. ELLIS: AIDS. With getting the training, 20 with getting someone certified as a SANE, do you have a 21 general knowledge about the responsibilities of a SANE 22 nurse? 182 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, it has to do with being able 2 to identify and being able to know what their orders will 3 be, where they should go, because at our facility we do 4 not do any forensic type of gathering. So that stuff all 5 will have to be done in another hospital, a designated 6 hospital, which we've identified in the area, which is 7 Women's Hospital in Albuquerque. That is the new, 8 designated sexual assault center. 9 MS. ELLIS: Even though you won't be doing any 10 collection of evidence with the certification, the 11 training will be very good for you and your staff to give 12 you a basic knowledge and understanding of the trauma 13 associated with sexual assault and to have you look at the 14 distinguishing factors between males and females that 15 males don't readily report and females do, that males are 16 impacted in terms of the stigma associated with 17 masculinity, and therefore would not report. And I'm sure 18 across the board anyone afraid of retaliation would not 19 report. 20 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 21 MS. ELLIS: So general information that will hold 22 you in good stead in terms of being aware of what happens 183 1 to a victim of sexual assault. Now as I heard you talk 2 about the medical doctor, does it give you pause? Are you 3 concerned? Is it a risky business not to have the benefit 4 of a doctor on staff if only for two days? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: I don't see it as a risk. 6 Currently, our nurse practitioner, a very well qualified 7 person, she's been able to handle everything that we have. 8 If she really felt that she was out of her league, we do 9 have a corporate physician that she can call and get 10 advice from. 11 MS. ELLIS: Now in terms of a sexual assault - in 12 the event a sexual assault occurs, we learned that the two 13 individuals would be separated. But I don't recall 14 hearing where the victim would be placed. Could you give 15 me an idea of what would happen, what your response would 16 be? And can you also talk about the crisis intervention 17 piece? What would your focus be in the aftermath of a 18 sexual assault? 19 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, the security, or whoever 20 comes upon them, is supposed to secure anything that's in 21 the area so that they could use it to be examined for 22 forensic-type of things. But they come right to medical. 184 1 They're examined. Then if it's determined that anything 2 has taken place, because we also call in a mental health 3 counselor, which is our PREA coordinator, then with her 4 determination we would decide whether that person needs to 5 go to the hospital. 6 MS. ELLIS: I see. Would there be someone with 7 the victim to counsel with that individual? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: That would be our mental health 9 person. 10 MS. ELLIS: And let them know that it wouldn't be 11 a good idea to shower? 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, definitely. We don't allow 13 them to do anything like that. They have to just stay as 14 they are. 15 MS. ELLIS: So basic fundamentals are pretty much 16 in place. 17 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, fundamental, hm-hmm. 18 MS. ELLIS: In terms of your response? 19 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 20 MS. ELLIS: Do you know if your psychological 21 support people are in touch with victims' service 22 advocates in the area? 185 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, yes. 2 MS. ELLIS: Could you talk a little bit about 3 that? 4 MR. CAMPBELL: She has given me the numbers and 5 she is working on putting together a SART team, but 6 Central New Mexico Rape Crisis Center, she would be in 7 contact with them and then they will send an advocate to 8 the hospital and that person there is trained in the same 9 procedures and also trained in the SART. 10 MS. ELLIS: Did you just put this procedure in 11 place? 12 MR. CAMPBELL: This is new, because we just hired 13 a new mental health supervisor. This is some of her very 14 strong background is putting this together and making sure 15 it happens, which she has done at her previous place of 16 employment. So we are very pleased to be able to get her 17 on board with a strong background in this situation. 18 MS. ELLIS: Do you have any classes for inmates 19 relative to sexual assault? 20 MR. CAMPBELL: No. 21 MS. CHUNN: Mr. Campbell, has anyone there, any 22 of the detainees, either verbally or non-verbally, 186 1 suggested to you that they've been victimized sexually? 2 MR. CAMPBELL: In 2007, I'm not aware of any. 3 Since that time we've had one case I know that has come to 4 medical and we've gone through the procedures of 5 separating them, keeping all of their stuff that was in 6 the act, and they were sent to the hospital. But that's 7 the only one I know about. 8 MS. CHUNN: Is it a subject that you talk about 9 when you are working with the detainees? Do you talk 10 about being a victim of sexual abuse? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: No. We have not talked to the 12 inmates about that. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you think that would be a good 14 idea going forward, not be part of the standard 15 orientation? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, our new mental health 17 supervisor has put a program already together. She has 18 handouts that she's given them. They're acknowledging 19 receipt of those handouts and of course, she's also making 20 sure that they have that other little handout that you 21 have there. Those are also in the boxes on the wall in 22 medical so that anyone coming to medical can get those. 187 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So the latter you're referring to 2 is the 14-2AA trifold? 3 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: But there's a second document 5 that you're now handing out related to sexual assault? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, with the mental health 7 counselor, when she does her initial evaluation of him is 8 going over that. And I don't have a copy of it with me, 9 but she's put that together. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is her name? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: Julianne Warrington. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And is the document he just 13 referred to, 14-2B, the sexual violence screening tool? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: No. She has put some more stuff 15 in addition to that. Yes, she has put more stuff in 16 addition to that one there. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden, would it be possible for 18 us to get a copy of that at your leisure? 19 MR. EZELL: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: That would be great. Thanks. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And did Ms. Warrington have a 22 predecessor? Was there a mental health supervisor? 188 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, she did. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And when was there a mental 3 health supervisor in Torrance in '07? Was there one 4 there? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: There was one in all of '07. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And why did he or she leave, if 7 you know? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: I'm not sure why they left. It 9 was due to personal. I really don't know why. They put 10 their resignation in once, took it back, put it in again. 11 So I don't know what their issues were. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Did you hear any rumor or 13 scuttlebutt about that? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: No. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And did that individual 16 make recommendations about what ought to be done 17 differently to prevent sexual assault? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: I was not aware of any. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you talk to her before she 20 left? What was the overlap? You started in October of 21 '07? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, I believe she left somewhere 189 1 around the first of the year. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: First of the year, 2008? 3 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So did you debrief her or 5 talk to her about what her thoughts were about mental 6 health at Torrance County? 7 MR. CAMPBELL: No. I did not. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: In hindsight, do you think that 9 would be a good idea as the health services administrator 10 to talk to a departing mental health supervisor? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, I don't see anything wrong 12 with that, just the situation and bringing it about. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: What was the situation that made 14 it awkward? 15 MR. CAMPBELL: She had physical, mental issues, 16 and said she wasn't there very much. 17 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Campbell, are there transgenders 18 in the facility at this time or had there been during your 19 time? 20 MR. CAMPBELL: Not that I'm aware of. 21 MS. ELLIS: If you had a transgender individual 22 to be committed to the facility, would you be the person 190 1 in charge of conducting an examination to determine the 2 status of that individual? And would you be in charge of 3 dispensing medications if that individual happened to be 4 on meds at that time? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, I would. I wouldn't do the 6 exam, but one of the licensed providers would do that. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Campbell, what are the 8 physical symptoms of a sexual assault for let's start with 9 a female inmate? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: Physical symptoms? 11 MR. MCFARLAND: What is your professional 12 understanding of what may indicate this person has been 13 sexually assaulted? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: I would think the first thing 15 would probably be their affect and then after that, I 16 would have to be up to a physical exam. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, as health services 18 administrator, former director of nursing, what is your 19 understanding of what a physician is going to be looking 20 for in a medical exam that would suggest or be probative 21 of a sexual assault? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: That would be differences, 191 1 non-normal; you know, like tears, bleeding. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Bleeding from what, vaginal area? 3 MR. CAMPBELL: Right, right. There could be 4 bruising. You know, but it isn't just vaginal, others, 5 anal. They'd have to be checking all those areas, 6 discharge, that type of thing, the stuff you would see 7 from physical altercation. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Lacerations? 9 MR. CAMPBELL: True. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Bruising. And what training, if 11 any, have you had specifically about the physical symptoms 12 of a female inmate who's been raped? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: None. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: What about any of your nurses or 15 the nurse practitioner? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: I'm not aware of what they've had 17 specifically. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you think they have any 19 specific training on sexual assault symptomology? 20 MR. CAMPBELL: I think that the nurse 21 practitioner has. She's had years of experience. 22 MS. ELLIS: On psychological levels, there's 192 1 research to suggest that a good many of the people who are 2 incarcerated in this country suffer from post-traumatic 3 stress disorder. As a professional working within a 4 facility of this nature as a medical professional, what is 5 your knowledge and understanding of post-traumatic stress 6 disorder? 7 MR. CAMPBELL: I have not had any special 8 training on that. 9 MS. ELLIS: Do you think that might be an area 10 where you might want to become somewhat familiar in terms 11 of understanding, what it looks like when you see it, and 12 what it causes, what the symptoms are, and how people 13 react when they have been exposed to catastrophic events 14 in their lifetime, that it might be something that you 15 would want to become well versed on as you operate in an 16 environment where the literature suggests that there is a 17 great deal of post-traumatic stress disorder? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, I would welcome that. 19 MS. CHUNN: Ms. Aragon, what kinds of records do 20 you collect? 21 MS. ARAGON: What kind of records? 22 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 193 1 MS. ARAGON: Well, for New Mexico inmates their 2 records come with them for the Reception and Diagnostic 3 Center or from any other facility that they're transferred 4 from. For county Marshals where you just get information 5 from the contracting jurisdiction, we just compile basic 6 information. 7 MS. CHUNN: And what about the Marshal Service? 8 MS. ARAGON: The same. They give us basic 9 information about the inmate and we compile our own file. 10 MS. CHUNN: In this basic information, is there 11 any information about whether or not the detainee has been 12 either a victim of sexual assault or has been a 13 perpetrator of sexual offending? 14 MS. ARAGON: The Marshal Services do give us 15 alerts on certain things, so if there was an issue like 16 that they would give us an alert. 17 MS. CHUNN: Does it change the classification or 18 the placement of that detainee in your facility when those 19 alerts are present? 20 MS. ARAGON: Yes, the placement of the inmate. 21 MS. CHUNN: Would you tell us a little about how 22 it's different from the typical placement? 194 1 MS. ARAGON: Well we would of course refer any 2 inmate who we found or who we were notified to be a victim 3 to mental health. We would place them in protective 4 custody unless they were cleared by mental health to go to 5 general population. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: I'd like to come back to that, 7 but I had a couple of follow-up questions with 8 Mr. Campbell. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: What is your understanding, Mr. 10 Campbell, prior to the release of this new sexual assault 11 prevent and response policy 14-2 that came into effect the 12 day I was there, September 18, 2008? What's your 13 understanding of what you or your staff were supposed to 14 do if you suspected sexual assault had occurred and 15 somebody had come to the infirmary? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: If it occurred within the 17 infirmary itself do you mean? 18 MR. MCFARLAND: No. An individual is now 19 standing in front of you in the exam room for whatever 20 reason is an inmate and says, "I'm here because I was 21 raped" or, "I have been sexually assaulted." What are you 22 supposed to do at that point, if anything, as you 195 1 understood the policy before September of this year? 2 MR. CAMPBELL: They were supposed to be sent to 3 the outside hospital for examination and forensic 4 gathering. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you do anything else? 6 Would your staff do anything else? 7 MR. CAMPBELL: No. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you didn't do anything 9 with the clothes they'd be wearing? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: That all stays with them, or goes 11 with them. They're supposed to all stay together. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Were you to give the alleged 13 victim any instructions about what to do or not do? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: Not to do any washing, changing 15 clothes; and, at that point, if they're in the infirmary 16 we have pretty good control. Well, we'd have control over 17 what they're going to do because there'll be somebody with 18 them all the time. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you instruct them not to go to 20 the bathroom or to brush their teeth? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: That's correct. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 196 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, we do. No flossing of the 2 teeth. Of course, they're not going to be able to get 3 floss in medical, that type of thing. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Are your staff supposed to do any 5 evidence gathering or preservation work? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: No, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Are you supposed to notify 8 anybody other than arrange for them to get taken to the 9 hospital? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. We have to notify the 11 warden. Of course, we're notifying the provider. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: By the provider you mean the 13 hospital? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: Which would be like either nurse 15 practitioner or doctor, depending on which we will be 16 talking to them, letting them know what we've got. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: At the hospital? Is that what 18 you're saying? 19 MR. CAMPBELL: No, where we're at, at the 20 facility, if that person came in there when there wasn't 21 a nurse practitioner or doctor in there. Then we're going 22 to be talking to them right off the bat. And of course, 197 1 we then notify the warden, and then I have a supervisor 2 above me who needs to be notified, a regional health 3 service administrator. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And who is he or she? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Valerie Wengler. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And where is she located? 7 MR. CAMPBELL: She's located in Minnesota. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: And she's with CCA? 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, she's with CCA. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And why do you need to notify 11 her? 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Because of anything of 13 significance, she has to be notified. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Anything that has to go to a 15 hospital? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Not a hospital, no, but sexual 17 assault situations she has to be notified of. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And did that requirement just 19 start now? 20 MR. CAMPBELL: It's always been that way. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: So is there any other procedure 22 that you understand you or your staff in the infirmary are 198 1 supposed to do when you get word that somebody's been 2 sexually assaulted other than what you've already 3 testified to? 4 MR. CAMPBELL: No, sir. 5 MS. ELLIS: I'd like to go back to that letter 6 that the chair received when he was in New Mexico, which 7 talks specifically about a coordinated effort, a response, 8 effective communication. Do you believe, now that you are 9 becoming educated about sexual assault, establishing some 10 guidelines and procedures for PREA requirements? 11 Do you feel that you are becoming or arriving at 12 a point where the kinds of charges that were made in this 13 letter are not true or will no longer be true, or have no 14 validity, have no value? And you do recall the letter 15 that the chair read? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: I recall the letter, because I'm 17 in charge of the medical. I feel that's never been true 18 as far as medical concerns are. I don't feel that it's 19 valid, at least to the medical staff. I'm not saying it's 20 that way to security, but I only know about the medical 21 people. So I know they're very responsive to any of the 22 inmate needs. 199 1 MS. ELLIS: What this person indicates is that 2 they not been sexually assaulted, but if they were, there 3 is the perception that things would not be in place in 4 order to address their needs as a sexual assault victim? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: I would disagree with that, 6 because anything that has come up since then didn't have 7 any bearing, even on what we're doing today. They were 8 very receptive, so I disagree with that. 9 MS. ELLIS: Are you satisfied with the level of 10 training that you are aspiring to? 11 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. Yes, I think of course we're 12 trying to improve it every week now. But they still have 13 been very responsive and knew what to do. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you spoken to Ms. 15 Finkelstein, who I believe was your predecessor? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Not since she resigned, no sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: About before she resigned, did 18 you ever talk to her? 19 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, we got a number of 20 conversations. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you talk to her suggestions, 22 recommendations, about how medical services could be 200 1 improved at Torrance? 2 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and what did she have to 4 say? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: The things that we talked about 6 were improving how our lab service was done, improving our 7 sick call backlog which we have taken care of now, 8 improving how we draw blood. And that's pretty well where 9 her concerns were at. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you have any discussions with 11 Ms. Finkelstein about improving the education of the 12 medical staff on the symptoms of sexual assault? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: No, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Any discussion about improving 15 the resources that were available to the victims of sexual 16 assault? 17 MR. CAMPBELL: No, sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: To your knowledge did Ms. 19 Finkelstein leave the facility on good terms? 20 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is consent in your 22 understanding a defense to a sexual assault between 201 1 inmates? In other words, if the inmates say it was 2 consensual, is that a crime or a disciplinary infraction? 3 MR. CAMPBELL: It's a disciplinary, and then as 4 has been stated earlier today that does get investigated. 5 And then that's out of my area. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you don't know if it's 7 a crime, but you know it's an investigable event? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And finally you mentioned 10 that there was an alleged sexual assault that occurred in 11 2008. Is that correct? 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And I don't think you described 14 the event. What did it involve? 15 MR. CAMPBELL: It involved two male inmates who 16 were found having oral sex, but they didn't notify medical 17 until it was like almost eight hours. And so then when we 18 sent them to the hospital, of course we sent the one 19 person, and there's a timeframe for oral sex. It's eight 20 hours. For any other type of rape it's 72. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you know that at the time? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Not the eight-hour part. No. 202 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So that's how you learned 2 that beyond eight hours and you're wasting your time? 3 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you sent the alleged 5 victim to the hospital 60 miles away? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And I assume that the individual 8 was accompanied by one or two correctional officers? 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And prior to that time, 11 you had not had any particular specialized training in the 12 forensics of sexual assault and how long certain types of 13 evidence will remain? 14 MR. CAMPBELL: No, sir. That's when the hospital 15 informed us of the way it was. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: So did they just inform you of 17 that and turn around and? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, they went anyway and they 19 did whatever they could do for forensic checks, and then 20 they sent the inmate back stating they had no evidence. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you know what kind of forensic 22 checks are done in the case of oral sex? 203 1 MR. CAMPBELL: No. I don't. I mean I could 2 guess, but I've never been through a training on it. No. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, would you like such 4 training? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, sir. 6 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Campbell, in your opinion, what 7 would be the advantages for an inmate to report sexual 8 assault, and what would be the disadvantages? 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Would that be the perpetrator? 10 MS. ELLIS: The victim. What would be the 11 advantages of alerting the system and saying, "I've been 12 sexual assaulted?" 13 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, the advantages to the inmate 14 would be so they could be checked for STDs, injuries, also 15 the possibility that it would get them out of the 16 situation that they're in. 17 MS. ELLIS: And the disadvantages as you see 18 them? 19 MR. CAMPBELL: It's very possible he'd get his 20 butt beat and then he also could be labeled a person that 21 everybody else would be hitting on. 22 MS. ELLIS: And as a snitch as well? 204 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 2 MS. ELLIS: Interesting. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Ms. Aragon, are you involved in 4 intake screening? 5 MS. ARAGON: No. Myself, no. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And how about intake 7 orientation of new admittees? 8 MS. ARAGON: I am not. No, we have an 9 orientation case manager who is assigned to that. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And who is he or she? 11 MS. ARAGON: Well, it's a unit team actually 12 that's assigned right now. It would be case manager 13 Phillips, case manager Alasea. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Tell me what in your job 15 looks like classification supervisor? What do you do? We 16 heard about the records, where various records come in, 17 but what is your job? 18 MS. ARAGON: I basically review the records as 19 they come in. I just oversee if the case managers have 20 questions regarding classification. I would help them. 21 I oversee the records clerks. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So I take it by overseeing 205 1 the classification case managers? 2 MS. ARAGON: I don't directly supervise them, but 3 I oversee the process. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So are you familiar with 5 the kinds of questions and criteria that go into 6 classifying a new inmate? 7 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, I believe it was 9 testified already that the New Mexico inmates were already 10 classified. Is that correct? 11 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And so did anybody at Torrance 13 ever reclassify any of the state convicts? 14 MS. ARAGON: Yes, we reclassify them every six 15 months. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And what tool did you use to 17 reclassify the state inmates? 18 MS. ARAGON: The CD policy, 080100. I can't 19 remember. Yeah, 0800. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: This is a state document? 21 MS. ARAGON: Yeah, state policy. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and it's 0800? 206 1 MS. ARAGON: If I remember correctly. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And do you have any involvement 3 now in the screening for sexual violence of the use of 4 14-2B? 5 MS. ARAGON: The orientation case managers use 6 that form. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, so that's Phillips and 8 Alasea? 9 MS. ARAGON: Alasea, yes. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Alasea. Have you received any 11 training on the use of that tool, 14-2B? 12 MS. ARAGON: Not a training. We went over it in 13 a department meeting. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you use any of the same kinds 15 of questions or considerations when reclassifying any of 16 the state inmates? 17 MS. ARAGON: We didn't have that form when our 18 state inmates were there. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, now, it asks, generally, 20 when you would reclassify the state inmates, did you 21 consider among other things whether an individual had 22 alleged to have been sexually assaulted? 207 1 MS. ARAGON: It's not formalized on the actual 2 screening, but it would be taken into consideration when 3 we interviewed the inmate. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And how would it be considered? 5 I mean, what would be the implications of that? 6 MS. ARAGON: Well, if an inmate came to us and 7 told us that they felt they were going to be in danger, we 8 would have placed them in protective custody. And they 9 would more than likely be transferred out of our facility. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you remember ever doing 11 that when there were New Mexico inmates there? 12 MS. ARAGON: Not for sexual assault reasons, but 13 for other reasons, yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So to your knowledge, and, 15 I'm sorry. You've been classification supervisor since? 16 MS. ARAGON: May of '07. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: That's right. And you were in 18 accounting prior to that? 19 MS. ARAGON: Yes, sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So since May of '07, how 21 many times are you aware of running into an allegation 22 that somebody had been sexually assaulted, whether they 208 1 were Torrance County, Marshal Service, ICE, or New Mexico 2 convicts? 3 MS. ARAGON: Not any of that were brought to my 4 attention. I do know about the incidents that were 5 reported on your disparity reports. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Among the other 7 classification criteria, is it relevant to know whether 8 the individual had been convicted of a sexual offense? 9 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And how might that drive 11 the process or the classification? 12 MS. ARAGON: Well, it would be more of us knowing 13 to keep an eye on that person. They are allowed to be at 14 our facility, if they have that offense, but it would be 15 someone we would watch. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you consider recommending 17 them for disciplinary SEG or ADSEG? 18 MS. ARAGON: Based on their crime? 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 20 MS. ARAGON: No. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What if there was evidence 22 of a sexual assault while incarcerated at a prior 209 1 facility? Would that drive any kind of a reclassification 2 or any action on your part? 3 MS. ARAGON: More than likely they wouldn't come 4 to our facility. They would be at a higher level. If 5 someone that we felt was inappropriate for our facility, 6 we would lock them down and refer them out for a transfer. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Campbell, for inmates who are 8 not alleging an emergency, what's the average wait today 9 for getting into the infirmary? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: When we pick up the sick call 11 slips, every day, and then if we see something on that 12 sick call that needs to be taken care of, we'll get them 13 right in that same day. Otherwise, we triage them and 14 look at them and decide whether they need to be seen 15 immediately within the next day or within 72 hours. And 16 then they also have the option of talking to an officer, 17 and that happens every day that somebody, or one or more 18 are brought to medical just because they've talked to an 19 officer and expressed a need. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So when I was told by an 21 inmate on September 18 that you had to wait 15 days on a 22 non-emergent nurse request, I wasn't getting accurate 210 1 information. 2 MR. CAMPBELL: I disagree with that 3 wholeheartedly. 4 MS. CHUNN: Mr. Campbell, how do you explain the 5 incidence of abuse at your facility, the reported from the 6 survey, the reported numbers? What explanation would you 7 give? 8 MR. CAMPBELL: I don't have the answer, because 9 I know that everything in medical we respond to if we know 10 about it. So I don't know why. I don't know why it's 11 that way, because it was a total surprise to me and all 12 the nurses in the medical department that this was the way 13 it was, because we hadn't gotten any. You know, there 14 hadn't been anybody coming. There has since, like I have 15 expressed, but that was news to medical. 16 MS. CHUNN: Ms. Aragon, I would ask you the same 17 question. You see the information on everyone who comes 18 there? 19 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 20 MS. CHUNN: What would you offer as an 21 explanation as to why the incidences of abuse were so high 22 for your facility? 211 1 MS. ARAGON: I really couldn't give an answer as 2 to why they were high. I know we did have some instances 3 that we reported to you with the staff and the inmate 4 disciplinaries. But as far as them being as high as they 5 were, we were just all totally surprised. I was 6 personally surprised. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: As classification supervisor, are 8 you the most knowledgeable person on the criteria for 9 classification of inmates? 10 MS. ARAGON: I feel I'm knowledgeable, but I 11 don't know if I am the most knowledgeable. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I'm just wondering if we 13 need to talk to case manager Phillips or if you would know 14 as much as she would about the classification process at 15 Torrance. 16 MS. ARAGON: I would know it. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And similarly with respect 18 to orientation, do you think that you would know pretty 19 much the same as case manager Phillips would about what is 20 told to new inmates? 21 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, can you tell me what 212 1 prior to this new policy September 18, what was typically 2 told to new admittees? Let's start with New Mexico 3 convicts as of May '07 when you became classification 4 supervisor. What do they hear about sexual assault? 5 MS. ARAGON: Well, we went in our orientation. 6 We would go over PREA, the reporting aspects of how they 7 can report, that it's zero tolerance, things of that 8 nature we would tell the inmates during orientation. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Was it written down in some kind 10 of a pamphlet? 11 MS. ARAGON: It's just on our orientation 12 checklist. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, so they weren't handed 14 anything? 15 MS. ARAGON: No. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Were they shown anything? 17 MS. ARAGON: No. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Were they shown anything on 19 video? 20 MS. ARAGON: In '07? 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 22 MS. ARAGON: No. 213 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Is your answer any different with 2 respect to the Marshal Service or the county inmates? 3 MS. ARAGON: It's the same. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And you didn't have any ICE, 5 anybody longer than 72 hours from ICE at the time? Is 6 that right? 7 MS. ARAGON: That's right. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So there was a checklist 9 that would talk about PREA and how to report it. Did that 10 checklist involve you telling the new admittees anything 11 about staff-on-inmates' sexual activity? 12 MS. ARAGON: It was just basic sexual misconduct, 13 that it was zero tolerance. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. Do you think that an 15 inmate could have got the idea you were talking about 16 inmate-on-inmate? Was anything specifically said that 17 staff can't mess with you, or words to that affect? 18 MS. ARAGON: It wasn't specifically stated, I 19 don't think. Like I didn't actually give the orientation 20 myself on all the inmates, so I couldn't say that case 21 manager Alasea Phillips didn't say that. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: But you know what's on the 214 1 checklist? 2 MS. ARAGON: The checklist is just saying that we 3 went over. It's not a specific list of what is covered. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: So it's not a lesson plan? 5 MS. ARAGON: Right. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: So they may have said that staff 7 sexual misconduct is a crime, and it's a disciplinary 8 infraction, or they may not have? 9 MS. ARAGON: Exactly. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And similarly they may 11 have focused exclusively on staff and may not mention 12 anything about consensual activity between inmates. Is 13 that correct? 14 MS. ARAGON: That's right. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So we don't know. 16 And in your time there whether it was even in accounting 17 or in your present position, when have you heard directly 18 or indirectly of any sexual assault, be it staff-on-inmate 19 or inmate-on-inmate. 20 MS. ARAGON: Well, I just would hearsay, of 21 course. That would be basically it. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: What are the instances of 215 1 hearsay? What did you hear? I would think that that 2 would kind of be big news, if for example a female 3 correctional officer had a rather explicit sexual 4 relationship going with an inmate. I would image that 5 would probably make the rounds among staff. Am I wrong? 6 MS. ARAGON: We heard about it. I didn't hear 7 any specifics myself as to the actual relationship. I 8 heard that it did occur and I heard that the individual in 9 one case quit. The other case I honestly didn't hear very 10 much about it. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, so you heard about two 12 instances of female COs losing their job over sexual 13 misconduct with an inmate in 2007? 14 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what about inmate on 16 inmate? Did you hear anything on inmate activity? 17 MS. ARAGON: I only heard of one instance. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And was that the oral sex in the 19 chapel incident? 20 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And did you ever hear about 22 anything being done differently by the administration or 216 1 by CCA headquarters in light of those three events that 2 you just described in '07? In other words, where there's 3 an inquisition, we're going to change the policy? We're 4 going to review best practices? 5 We're going to redouble our training? We are 6 going to look and see what lessons there were and how this 7 could never happen again? I mean, was there any reaction 8 other than she's gone, and we really don't know any more 9 than that? 10 MS. ARAGON: Not that I know of. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And do you sit in on staff 12 meetings? Would you have occasion to have heard if there 13 was some kind of new policy or practice at least in the 14 classification area? I assume you would have heard about 15 that. 16 MS. ARAGON: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So as far as you know 18 nothing changed after those three events in '07 that just 19 about everybody knew about in the facility? 20 MS. ARAGON: Not that directly affected me, or 21 crossed my issues. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you hear about anything that 217 1 affected everybody else? 2 MS. ARAGON: No. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. We're going to take a five 4 minute break. 5 (A brief recess was taken.) 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Good afternoon gentlemen. Would 7 you please raise your right hand? 8 Whereupon, 9 CALVIN BLUE and JUAN IBARRA 10 were called as witnesses, and, having first been 11 duly sworn, were examined and testified as follows: 12 EXAMINATION 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. Please have a seat. 14 Mr. Blue, would you please state your name and 15 your job at Torrance County? 16 MR. BLUE: Calvin Blue. I was the chief of 17 security there in 2007. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is your current 19 position? 20 MR. BLUE: I am chief of unit management in 21 Texas. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did you leave Torrance 218 1 County? 2 MR. BLUE: Late October, 2007. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And can I ask why you 4 left? 5 MR. BLUE: My mother passed away, so I had to 6 move down and take care of my sister in Texas. So that's 7 why. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. And as chief of 9 security, what were your responsibilities? 10 MR. BLUE: It was for the safety and security of 11 the institution of the whole facility. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Did that mean that you oversaw 13 classification? 14 MR. BLUE: No. Chief Ibarra oversaw 15 classification. I oversaw the security of the 16 institution. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: So as far as the security of the 18 institution, you were in charge of all the COs? 19 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: What else would you -- ? 21 MR. BLUE: The captains, lieutenants, sergeants. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: All the custodian personnel, so 219 1 to speak? 2 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: What else were you responsible 4 for? 5 MR. BLUE: I was responsible for outside detail. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And transport? 7 MR. BLUE: Yeah, and transportation. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Anything to do with programming? 9 MR. BLUE: No, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Infirmary? 11 MR. BLUE: No, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, if we had an incident that 13 someone in the infirmary, you know, that would be a 14 different thing. Somebody started a ruckus in the 15 infirmary. Then it becomes a security issue. 16 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Chief Ibarra? 19 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Welcome. Would you please state 21 your full name and your title please? 22 MR. IBARRA: Juan Ibarra, chief of unit 220 1 management, Torrance County Detention Facility. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: How long have you been at that 3 facility? 4 MR. IBARRA: 1993. I worked my way up the ranks 5 to my current position of chief of unit management. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Since 1983? 7 MR. IBARRA: I've been working with them since 8 1993. I've held the position of chief for two years. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: For two years? 10 MR. IBARRA: And as chief of unit management, 11 what are your responsibilities? 12 MR. IBARRA: I oversee all unit management areas 13 including the units part of programming in conjunction 14 with AW over programming, records, unit managers, case 15 managers, corrections counselors. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: So you would be Mr. Corral's 17 direct superior? 18 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Blue, Torrance County is an 20 indirect supervision facility. Is that right? 21 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And it was in August of '07. Is 221 1 that correct? 2 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And that means that there's not 4 a direct line of sight, but, you tell me. What does 5 indirect supervision mean? 6 MR. BLUE: Indirect supervision is as you would 7 call it rovers and COs walk around in units to ensure the 8 safety and security of the inmates that's in there. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And do you recall the state of 10 security and posting of COs in units 5 and 6 when it was 11 filled? Or at least as far as unit 6 was concerned with 12 New Mexico inmates along with 5A and 5B? 13 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, sir. 15 MR. BLUE: Okay. So, where were the COs 16 stationed? 17 MR. MCFARLAND: You had one in unit control for 18 6 and one in unit control for 5. Is that right? 19 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you have anybody permanently 21 stationed in any of the pods? 22 MR. BLUE: No, sir. 222 1 MR. MCFARLAND: You had one video camera in each 2 pod? 3 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And they were stationary and they 5 couldn't swivel or zoom? 6 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. There was not PTZ. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And then you had how many 8 rovers in unit 5? 9 MR. BLUE: We had two officers that were assigned 10 to the floor. Then you had your correction counselors, 11 then your case managers that were in and out of the 12 dormitories at all times. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: So how many case managers did you 14 have in unit 5 at one time? 15 MR. BLUE: I believe there was one person that 16 was over in Unit 5A, and then we had one that was over 5B 17 that was over the segregation unit. And you had two that 18 was over unit 6. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, so you had a total between 20 6 and 5 you had a total of four case managers. Is that 21 correct? 22 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 223 1 MR. MCFARLAND: And you would have had about 158, 2 160 inmates in unit 6 when it was filled with state 3 convicts? 4 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And is that about the same number 6 in 5? 7 MR. BLUE: In 5 you held about 30 something, 8 close to 40 inmates in 5A. And then segregation, there 9 was one person assigned to each cell, so there was about 10 20 guys that were in 5. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: So you were talking about 130 in 12 unit 5. Is that correct? 13 MR. BLUE: And you mean unit 6? 14 MR. MCFARLAND: No. I'm sorry. Unit 6 was about 15 158 in unit 6. Is that correct? 16 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. It was 40, 38, 38 and 40. 18 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. And then unit 5 you 20 had SEG with about how many? 21 MR. BLUE: Well, segregation it was our 5D 22 segregation was just for state inmates only and 5A was 224 1 normal state inmates that was over there. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: So how many did you have in 5A? 3 MR. BLUE: 5A you had about 38 to 40 guys off in 4 there. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And 5D how many? 6 MR. BLUE: About 20. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And 5B and C, you had about 38 in 8 each of those? 9 MR. BLUE: There was one man in cells in 5 'Boy'. 10 There was not double man cell. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: 5B and 5C? 12 MR. BLUE: 5B and C was single man. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: They were single cell? 14 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, so we're talking about 20 in 16 5B and 20 in 5C? 17 MR. BLUE: Yeah, one of them held 19, I believe, 18 and the other one was 20. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So about 97 in unit 5? 20 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. You had to cover 22 those 97 during the day shift you had, I take it the case 225 1 managers were not around the night shift. 2 MR. BLUE: No, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. You had two case 4 managers, one unit control, and two rovers on those 97 in 5 unit 5? 6 MR. BLUE: In unit 5 we had a segregation officer 7 just strictly assigned to segregation. They didn't work 8 in 5A at all. We had a sergeant that was over 9 segregation. Then we had four officers that were assigned 10 to segregation for those three units: 'Boy,' 'Charles,' 11 and 'David.' 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, switching to unit 6 you had 13 one case manager, two rovers, a unit control operator? 14 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And a unit administrator? 16 MR. BLUE: The unit manager? 17 MR. MCFARLAND: The unit manager. 18 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Anybody else in any other staff 20 assigned to unit 6 in August of '07? 21 MR. BLUE: Far as I know of, no, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What about a case? 226 1 MR. BLUE: Correction counselor? 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, correction counselor. 3 MR. BLUE: Yes, we had the correction counselor. 4 They had two COs that were assigned to the floor, then you 5 had your case managers. There was one that was over 6A 6 and 6B, and one that was over 6 'Charles,' and 6 'David.' 7 And you had your unit manager that was over the whole 8 unit. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: So in unit 6, August '07, one in 10 control, two case managers, one unit manager, two rovers, 11 and one correction counselor? 12 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: So those are all the bodies that 14 were dedicated to the 158 state convicts in unit 6. 15 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you ever had any experience 17 in a publicly-owned jail? 18 MR. BLUE: Yes, I used to work for Curry County 19 Detention Facility before I started with CCA from '95 to 20 January of '97. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: What are the differences in your 22 experience, if any? 227 1 MR. BLUE: Well, basically, the jail ran the same 2 on the jail side, but, you know, when I was holding longer 3 term inmates at Torrance it was different. A lot of our 4 policies, procedures, things of that nature, run different 5 than what the jail setting did, because they were not ACA 6 accredited the way Torrance is. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: So what about number of staff, 8 staff ratio? 9 MR. BLUE: The facility was smaller, so the staff 10 was a lot smaller than what Torrance was. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you recall what the staff- to- 12 inmate ratio would have been in the public facility? 13 MR. BLUE: They had rovers at their facility too. 14 They did not have indirect supervision, so I am not going 15 to just throw a number out there. So I don't know. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: No. Did you have in August '07, 17 were there any double-celled facilities? All unit 6 were 18 all double-celled, weren't they? 19 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And so the only single cells are? 21 MR. BLUE: 'Boy,' 'Charles,' and 'David' in unit 22 5. 228 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. When you were there at 2 Torrance, what was the gender of the correctional 3 officers? 4 MR. BLUE: We had a mixture of gender. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Two-thirds of them being male, 6 does that sound about right, or do you think it's 7 different? 8 MR. BLUE: I can tell you, you know. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Was cross-gender supervision 10 permitted at Torrance? 11 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And where was there 13 cross-gender supervision? 14 MR. BLUE: In all of the areas except for unit 4; 15 we only had women in unit 4. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: That was the women's unit? 17 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: So you had women in the male 19 units? 20 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you had women in 22 obviously the women's unit. What about pat-downs and 229 1 strip-searches? What's your understanding of the policy 2 there? 3 MR. BLUE: The policy states that any male or 4 female can pat-down a male inmate. A female only one that 5 pats-down a female inmate. And now we had an instance 6 where the female will pat-down a male inmate. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what about strip 8 searches? Are they permitted? 9 MR. BLUE: The male is the only one that's 10 allowed to strip-search male inmates. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And you heard the testimony 12 earlier today about strip searches? 13 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Is there anything you want to 15 correct or amend, or is that accurate about when the strip 16 search was called for? 17 MR. BLUE: The strip search to my recollection 18 from me working in correction, you know, the strip search 19 can happen at any time when you've got reasonable 20 suspicion that somebody might be carrying a weapon, 21 contraband on them or anything of that nature. So, you 22 know, you could call it at any time. 230 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. And what was the policy at 2 Torrance about when you would call a strip search other 3 than reasonable suspicion? Was there some situation like 4 conjugal visits where strip searches were always called 5 for? 6 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. That was normal protocol 7 that you have strip searches done before and after the 8 conjugal visits. And also they're done after regular 9 visitation. They're done their pat search before they go 10 into visits, and strip search after they come out. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: That's contact visitation? 12 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Some of your inmates don't have 14 contact visitation. Isn't that right? 15 MR. BLUE: That's right. That's the county 16 inmates and the federal inmates, and the women don't have 17 contact visits. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Blue, did you ever hear a 19 staff-on-inmate sexual event happening at Torrance? 20 MR. BLUE: Now, could you say that one more time? 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, did you ever hear of a 22 report of a correctional officer having a sexual 231 1 relationship with an inmate at Torrance? 2 MR. BLUE: No. No one ever came and told me that 3 there was a staff-inmate sexual assault at all. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you ever hear about the 5 instances that the previous witnesses have described in 6 2007? 7 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you heard about it 9 after the fact? 10 MR. BLUE: Well, on one of the cases I was the 11 one that detected one of the instances of a relationship 12 between a staff member and an inmate. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Was that the one that was in 14 February of '07 or June of '07? 15 MR. BLUE: That's the one in June. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And that was the one with 17 23 hours of recorded lurid, vivid telephone conversations? 18 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, how was it that you 20 became involved in that investigation? Were you 21 ordinarily the investigator? 22 MR. BLUE: Well, I was ADR. I was administrative 232 1 duty officer that weekend, so I was monitoring the phone 2 calls on the inmates in real time, and that's not heard 3 when our staff members were on the phone with the inmate 4 and I notified my superiors of what was going on. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Who did you notify? 6 MR. BLUE: I notified Warden Rodriguez and Warden 7 Ezell. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Warden Rodriguez is the 9 deputy warden? 10 MR. BLUE: Yes, he's the warden over operations. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And how did you notify them? 12 MR. BLUE: I notified him over the telephone. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And then what did you do? 14 MR. BLUE: After that I continued to monitor the 15 phone calls and then turned it over to the investigator so 16 that he could investigate into more of an allegation that 17 was going on. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, and who was the 19 investigator? 20 MR. BLUE: That was Warden Varnum. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Michael Varnum? 22 MR. BLUE: Yes. 233 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And did you ever call the 2 Torrance County Sheriff? 3 MR. BLUE: No, sir. I did not call the Torrance 4 County Sheriff. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Or the prosecuting attorney or 6 district attorney? 7 MR. BLUE: No, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: That wouldn't be protocol at the 9 time? 10 MR. BLUE: At that time, no. I wanted to ensure 11 that we got all the evidence first before, you know, I 12 jumped to conclusions and made the phone call. So we went 13 to the proper procedures. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Hm-hmm, and did you ever hear of 15 any other staff-on-inmate sexual misconduct? 16 MR. BLUE: Just one other incident that you have 17 in your report. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And that was the February 19 incident? 20 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: But you weren't involved in 22 discovering that? 234 1 MR. BLUE: No, sir. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: You just heard about it. 3 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 4 MS. CHUNN: All right, Mr. Blue. It's time for 5 my question. 6 MR. BLUE: Yes, ma'am. 7 MS. CHUNN: You know, I'm the practitioner on 8 this Panel. I mean, I've worked juvenile corrections for 9 umpteen years. I don't understand why nobody can explain 10 to me why the prevalence of sexual victimization leads the 11 field. It's the highest in the country. And everybody 12 tells me, I just don't know, we were surprised. That 13 sounds like either nobody's showing up at the facility or 14 you don't know what's going on there. 15 There should be some indication of what is going 16 on that would explain those kinds of numbers. So, now, 17 your having been there and having left now, tell me. What 18 is going on or was going on at the time at the facility 19 that would explain why so many detainees said that they 20 had been victimized sexually? 21 MR. BLUE: Well, the report took me by storm when 22 I heard it. You know, because I had a pretty good rapport 235 1 with the state inmates at that time. They had any 2 problems or anything of that nature, you know, they came 3 to me; you know, because I was very visible in the back. 4 Every day I was walking and talking to the staff, inmates 5 as well. You know, so, if something was going on they 6 would have told me immediately because I did have 7 confidential informants that told me things, you know, and 8 nobody has ever came and told me anything of that nature. 9 MS. CHUNN: Did anybody ask for feedback on this? 10 Since you had informants, did you not say, "How did we 11 come up with these numbers? Who's saying this about us?" 12 MR. BLUE: Well, ma'am, I wasn't at the facility 13 when they got the BJS report; I wasn't there. So I was 14 already in Texas. So when I got the report over there it 15 took me by storm when I got it. 16 MS. CHUNN: It just seems to me that everybody's 17 totally surprised, but nobody seems to have any 18 information that would help to explain what may have been 19 going on with the detainees with these kinds of results. 20 I mean, this is a significant number. 21 MR. BLUE: Yes ma'am, it is. 22 MS. CHUNN: A significant number, and to say that 236 1 nobody knows anything, everybody's just so surprised, 2 really raises a lot of concern in my mind about what's 3 going on there in operations. 4 MR. BLUE: Yes, ma'am. 5 MS. CHUNN: Mr. Ibarra, how about you? 6 MR. IBARRA: Well, I definitely can see your 7 concern and the Panel's concern as to trying to find 8 answers to the number that you received. 9 MS. CHUNN: I am not looking for an answer. I am 10 just looking for a good theory about what may have been at 11 play on that day that would have you to lead the whole 12 country. 13 MR. IBARRA: I can give you a theory. 14 MS. CHUNN: All right. Give me one. I've been 15 waiting for it all day. 16 MR. IBARRA: My theory, strictly my theory. 17 MS. CHUNN: All right. 18 MR. IBARRA: During the time the survey took 19 place, of course, you have present in documentation of two 20 staff members that were involved with inmates. You also 21 have a couple individual inmates that were also of a 22 sexual nature. This rolled up to the fact that when we 237 1 were pulling inmates, the inmates were saying I don't want 2 to go, and we were telling them, well, you got to go 3 anyway, and telling them you don't want to go. 4 Well, that's my theory. When you forced somebody 5 to do something that they really didn't want to do, 6 they're made to go down there and say I don't want to be 7 here. And then while I'm there I'm going to say 8 something. I'm going to make this thing go on, because 9 I've heard. I've seen or heard of the relationships that 10 were taking place that we found out afterwards, the 11 corporation action in my understanding. That's my theory. 12 If you would look at all the other evidence, there isn't 13 any. So that's the only thing I can possibly think of. 14 Did it take us by surprise? Yeah. 15 MS. CHUNN: Well, sure. It took everybody by 16 surprise. 17 MR. IBARRA: I took it real personal myself, 18 because I looked upon this as something I had a finger on 19 that we did everything we possibly did at the time. When 20 the numbers came back, they were shocking, and I started 21 looking at it as to why. Everybody within our company 22 said why, why. And that's the only thing that I can 238 1 personally attribute to those particularly high numbers. 2 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. So, if I'm hearing you 3 correctly, sir, your theory is that inmates responded in 4 a way to indicate situations that in fact did not actually 5 exist. 6 MR. IBARRA: Well, not necessarily. I believe 7 they responded in a way that the things that were taking 8 place I'm sure a lot of inmates knew about, obviously, 9 because they report it. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: You're talking about the two 11 staff-on-inmate incidents? 12 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And everybody knew about those 14 and the two inmate-on-inmate liaisons? 15 MR. IBARRA: Correct. And since that was so 16 fresh in their minds, when the surveyors came down and 17 started asking questions, some even made statements to the 18 staff that were pulling them. I'm going to mess with 19 them. I have written statements from our staff members 20 saying this is a statement they were making, and those are 21 the only thing I can attribute it to. 22 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Blue, do you have a theory? 239 1 MR. BLUE: No, ma'am. I don't have a theory. I 2 try to run a safe environment for all the staff and the 3 inmates there at the facility. You know, like you said, 4 I was out walking and talking on a daily basis. I was 5 there 12, 13 hours a day, you know. So it took me by 6 storm, you know, of seeing that report when it came out, 7 because I've never had any feedback from anybody that took 8 place besides those two incident reports that were 9 submitted to you. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you have any knowledge about 11 the investigation of those staff-on-inmate cases? 12 MR. BLUE: Over one of them, I have knowledge of, 13 yes sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: That you already testified too, 15 I'm sorry. 16 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you know what was done after 18 that, after you did what you already testified to? Do you 19 know anything about for example whether the matter was 20 referred for prosecution? 21 MR. BLUE: No, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Chief Ibarra, do you know 240 1 anything about what was done as a result of either of the 2 two staff sexual relationships in '07? 3 MR. IBARRA: That refers to outside prosecution. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: What about anything else? Were 5 you involved in either of those investigations? 6 MR. IBARRA: I was not. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: So anything you'd know would be 8 second hand. Is that correct, sir? 9 MR. IBARRA: Correct. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And is there anything you're 11 aware of from the rumor mill that hasn't already been 12 discussed about those events, those two staff 13 relationships? 14 MR. IBARRA: I would just like to add that most 15 of the staff that heard, and although we try to curtail 16 rumor mills, they're going to happen anyway. Staff has a 17 tendency to go whatever they want to think of because of 18 a lack of somebody telling them otherwise. This 19 particular case, the staff were in belief that those 20 individuals were prosecuted. They were terminated. 21 That's the general understanding of the staff. We were to 22 ask them what happened to those individuals. The first 241 1 thing to come out, they were fired. They're going to go 2 to jail, without us actually telling them that. That's 3 part of the training from day one. 4 MS. ELLIS: What's the word on the street about 5 your facility? What do people in the community say? Are 6 people afraid to end up there? Do you have a dangerous 7 reputation? Outside of the report, what's said about your 8 facility? 9 MR. IBARRA: Our facility in my opinion is looked 10 upon in a very positive light. I've been a member of the 11 general community there for 19 years. People come to me 12 and give us praise all the time, even individuals that 13 have been under our care. When I see them on the street, 14 they are usually thankful of the service they receive 15 while they were with us. Are you sure you have some 16 individuals that were terminated for one thing or another 17 and their immediate family is in a different light, but 18 the majority of the community is in support of us very 19 much. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Either of you. Well, let's see. 21 Mr. Blue, I'm sorry. You left Torrance when? 22 MR. BLUE: In October. 242 1 MR. MCFARLAND: In October of '07? 2 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Then for either of 4 you was the female officer involved in the June discovery, 5 was she terminated or was she allowed to resign? 6 MR. BLUE: She resigned on her own. She called 7 in and resigned. We couldn't terminate her. She did not 8 come back to work. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that your understanding, Mr. 10 Ibarra? 11 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Do you know, 13 Mr. Ibarra, if that case was referred for prosecution? 14 MR. IBARRA: I do not know. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what about the other 16 earlier event also involving a staff member and a 17 relationship with a male, Marshal Service inmate. Was 18 that individual disciplined or did she resign? 19 MR. IBARRA: I believe she was terminated. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Let me show you the documents 21 provided in answer to our question number 22 on the 22 left-hand side there. Does that refresh your recollection 243 1 that she actually resigned before discipline could have 2 been administered? 3 MR. IBARRA: The one in February did she have on 4 the right-hand side. That one was terminated. It is 5 highlighted down on the bottom right-hand side. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, gotcha, yeah. Yeah, 7 all right. So it was the June event? 8 MR. IBARRA: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, gotcha. Thank you. 10 MS. CHUNN: But in similar situations, I take it 11 you would have accepted a resignation. Is that true? 12 MR. IBARRA: In the 7A incident? 13 MS. CHUNN: Yeah, hm-hmm. 14 MR. IBARRA: No. If they resigned in front of 15 the warden, that's them, because they have to go in front 16 of the warden. They don't go in front of me. They go in 17 front of the warden. 18 MS. CHUNN: But the facility would have accepted 19 a resignation, given a similar situation? 20 MR. IBARRA: Yes, ma'am. It could be resignation 21 or termination. 22 MS. CHUNN: Would you explain why, if there were 244 1 suspicion of sexual abuse or any other kind of 2 malfeasance, but we are talking about sexual abuse. 3 MR. IBARRA: Yes, ma'am. 4 MS. CHUNN: If it were the case, why would you 5 allow the person to resign and not to prosecute the 6 person? 7 MR. IBARRA: Well, you know, they can resign, but 8 if we're going to terminate them, they can say I'm going 9 to resign, but we're going to terminate them. Now, them 10 going out for prosecution, that's up to the investigator 11 to do that. But we're going to terminate them for my end 12 of the thing. But they can just say I'll resign, you 13 know, but that's their own words. But we're going to 14 terminate them. 15 MS. CHUNN: So when you terminate them, you have 16 the cause and it becomes a part of the record of employed 17 with you. 18 MR. IBARRA: Yes, ma'am. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Do either of you know what was 20 communicated to future employers, future employers in the 21 correctional industry with respect to either of those 22 female staff? 245 1 MR. IBARRA: If they was trying to get hired on 2 to somewhere else? 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Right. 4 MR IBARRA: They would have to go through our 5 legal department, because our facility doesn't give out 6 that information at all. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. I'm looking at another 8 document produced. It's an incident report that relates 9 to the June female staff member and the box for criminal 10 charges yes or no is checked no. And do you have any 11 idea, or do I need to talk to Mr. Varnum? But do either 12 of you have any idea why charges were not filed against or 13 at least this file was not referred for possible 14 prosecution? 15 MR. IBARRA: No, sir. 16 MR. BLUE: I do not either. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And I take it the same answer 18 with respect to the earlier February relationship. Is 19 that correct? 20 MR. BLUE: Yes, correct. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: So, is Mr. Varnum the person who 22 would be most knowledgeable about what was done in those 246 1 two instances? 2 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. You would need to talk to 3 him. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: How is his health? 5 MR. IBARRA: I couldn't tell you that at this 6 time. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. 8 MR. BLUE: He's coming along. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Now, I just want to 10 confirm for the record my understanding from the two of 11 you what has and what has not been reported in '07, 12 because there's some question about whether the inmates 13 got it right. But this is just on the basis of your 14 records, your facility's records. In answer to our 15 question about staff-on-inmate sexual abuse there in 2007, 16 it's solely those two incidents. Is that correct? 17 MR. IBARRA: As far as I know of, sir, those two 18 incidents. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: As far as inmate-on-inmate 20 investigations there were no alleged inmate-on-inmate 21 sexual abuse reports at Torrance County Detention Facility 22 in calendar year 2007. Do you agree with that? 247 1 MR. BLUE: Yes, as far as my recollection there 2 was none that was reported to me or any of my supervisors. 3 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. That's correct. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. There's no litigation 5 against the Torrance facility involving sexual abuse in 6 calendar 2007. 7 MR. BLUE: As far as I know, no, sir. 8 MR. IBARRA: Not that I'm aware of, sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And there were no inmate request 10 forms in 2007 in which an inmate alleged or referred to 11 sexual abuse? 12 MR. BLUE: No, sir. Nothing came across my desk. 13 MR. IBARRA: That's correct. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Would they have? 15 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. I would have received 16 confidential request forms from inmates for different 17 things. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you all remember a 19 third female correctional officer in 2007 in reading from 20 an incident report of Mr. Varnum about his investigation 21 of the June staff-on-inmate sexual relationship he 22 mentions? While there is not enough evidence to support 248 1 outside charges, it is recommended that she not be 2 eligible for rehire within CCA. 3 Additional information came out during the 4 investigation that officer so and so might also be 5 involved in an inappropriate relationship with an inmate. 6 Officer so and so resigned her employment prior to an 7 official investigation beginning, and then on Saturday 8 February 10 "Daily Register" there's an indication that a 9 correctional officer with that same last name was 10 "escorted out." I don't know if that means that was when 11 she resigned or what. Do you have anything? 12 MR. BLUE: When she resigned, that's normal 13 practice for a supervisor to escort that employee out of 14 the facility. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, Chief Ibarra, do you 16 know anything about a third female officer in '07 being 17 involved in an inappropriate relationship and leading to 18 her resignation before an investigation even began? 19 MR. IBARRA: Just what's written on the report. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: That doesn't refresh your 21 recollection of that event last July of '07? 22 MR. IBARRA: No, sir. 249 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And Mr. Blue you weren't? 2 No. You were still there. 3 MR. BLUE: I was there. That doesn't ring a 4 bell. Only, like saying what's in a report, that's what 5 I remember. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you know that officer? 7 MR. BLUE: I knew of the officer, yes, sir. 8 Yeah. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you know the officer that 10 we're talking about? 11 MR. IBARRA: Yes, yes. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And you knew that she left? 13 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And did you know the 15 circumstances of her resignation? 16 MR. BLUE: She walked out for a different 17 circumstance besides that. I don't know exactly what she 18 walked out for, but it wasn't because of that. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Why, did she tell you? 20 MR. BLUE: I didn't talk to her personally at 21 all. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: So how do you know why she left? 250 1 MR. BLUE: Huh? 2 MR. MCFARLAND: How do you know why she resigned? 3 MR. BLUE: Because of what she had told the 4 captain, the reason she had walked out. And I can't 5 remember exactly verbatim the words, you know, the reason 6 she walked out. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: But why is that? Regardless of 8 whether it's verbatim or not? 9 MR. BLUE: I believe it was something to the 10 effect that she was just tired of working there, so she 11 quit. So the captain walked out of the facility. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: So is it fair to say that at 13 least with respect to female officers, if they're caught 14 in a sexual relationship with an inmate they can resign 15 prior to termination and it will stand as a resignation? 16 MR. BLUE: Sir, we are going to terminate them in 17 our system. We're not going to say, today, resign. We're 18 going to terminate them in our system. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, two to three of them beat 20 you to the punch and resigned in the last case that I just 21 described, according to Mr. Varnum, resigned before an 22 investigation even started. And the other one resigned 251 1 after the investigation had started, but before she could 2 get fired and before charges could be referred. So, 3 again, my question is is it your understanding of CCA 4 policy, at least at Torrance, that if a staff member is 5 caught in a sexual relationship with an inmate and they 6 resigned, that is the end of the investigation? That's 7 the end of the discipline and that's the end of the 8 possible prosecution. 9 MR. BLUE: I'm not going to say that, sir. 10 That's up to the investigator at the facility. You know, 11 that's not my call to make. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I understand that, but I'm 13 wondering if you have any reason to believe that I'm 14 wrong. 15 MR. BLUE: So that's your own opinion. I 16 couldn't tell you, like saying we're going to terminate 17 from our end in our system and be sure to, you know. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, if it's not your call Mr. 19 Blue, then why do you know what we were going to do? 20 MR. BLUE: Well, that's just proper protocol that 21 we're going to terminate an employee for something. They 22 holler out and say, I could tell you something, and say 252 1 I'm resigning right now. That's my words coming out and 2 saying I'm resigning, but, you know, we're going to do our 3 part. You know, to ensure that you don't work at another 4 CCA facility. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, but the fact is, according 6 to your records, she was allowed to resign. No criminal 7 charges? 8 MR. BLUE: That's what the paper said, yes, sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: So regardless of what you predict 10 would have happened if she hadn't resigned, is it true 11 that because she resigned she was not terminated? She was 12 not further investigated, and she was not referred for 13 criminal prosecution? 14 MR. BLUE: That was something you would have to 15 ask Mr. Varnum about. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Mr. Ibarra, do you have a 17 different understanding of the way things were at least in 18 '07 at Torrance? 19 MR. IBARRA: To the best of my recollection it is 20 our philosophy to prosecute individuals that are found 21 guilty of committing felonies. In this particular case, 22 it is my understanding they were not reported. They quit 253 1 prior to that, and that's the best I can answer that one. 2 MS. CHUNN: So the resignation was accepted? 3 MR. IBARRA: I believe so. Yes, ma'am. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And that ended the investigation, 5 correct? 6 MR. IBARRA: I believe so. Yes, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And that ended any consideration 8 of referral for criminal charge. Is that correct? 9 MR. IBARRA: I believe so. Yes, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: So can I infer from that that 11 policy was followed in those two cases? 12 MR. IBARRA: The policy is not specific, so yes. 13 The policy was followed. 14 MS. CHUNN: Mr. Ibarra, would you like to share 15 for the record any particular reason that the resignation 16 was accepted rather than saying no, we will not accept 17 your resignation? You are under investigation and you are 18 going to be terminated. Is there an advantage to one over 19 the other in terms of operating a facility? 20 MR. IBARRA: I can't speculate on information 21 that I really don't have privilege to, but as far as 22 advantages, I really don't see an advantage or a con to 254 1 it. Are you asking me for an opinion? My opinion as far 2 as what advantage would be to prosecute somebody? No. 3 MS. CHUNN: The other way? 4 MR. IBARRA: Or not prosecute somebody? 5 MS. CHUNN: For accepting the resignation instead 6 of proceeding with the investigation, what is the 7 advantage of doing that? 8 MR. IBARRA: The end result is the same in either 9 way, which is to get an individual that you deem a safety 10 and security threat away from your inmate population. So 11 either one of those work. And I know where you're going 12 with this questioning, and that is is it better to 13 prosecute an inmate if you can. The advantages of it are 14 yes, people know. The general public knows. The staff 15 know. 16 My perception is that the staff are under that 17 impression regardless at this point, not that it happened 18 or didn't happen. But the staff believed it to happen. 19 The staff were trained that if this is the course that you 20 take during your appointment, this could be the end 21 result. 22 MS. CHUNN: So you're saying then that the 255 1 perception is part of the reality. Is that what you're 2 saying? 3 MR. IBARRA: Yes, ma'am. 4 MS. CHUNN: Okay. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Did the administration at 6 Torrance communicate to your staff or to you what lessons 7 should be learned from those two staff and inmate problems 8 in '07? 9 MR. BLUE: Well, we talked about it all the time, 10 sir, in training classes and I brought it up numerous 11 times in my meeting with my supervisors, my shift 12 supervisors and lieutenants about, you know, proper 13 conduct, which is our conduct policy is, you know we 14 brought that up all the time about making sure that you do 15 the right thing all the time. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And did you include any unit 17 managers in those conversations? 18 MR. BLUE: The unit managers was in our meetings 19 too and Chief Ibarra was off in our meeting when we had a 20 whole team meeting with supervisors and unit staff. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did this meeting occur 22 in which you discussed all the time what should be done? 256 1 MR. BLUE: We had monthly meetings, you know, 2 which is proper protocol. We had monthly meetings with 3 our staff and we talked about code of conduct. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And Chief Ibarra, you were in on 5 those monthly meetings as well? 6 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. Each department has a 7 monthly meeting within their own departments; and then we 8 have conjunction meetings with security and non-security 9 staff also. What Chief Blue was referring to is not 10 specific to this individual case. But, in general, we 11 always cover staff in the relationships. 12 It's not appropriate, the fact you can fall prey, 13 and when manipulation is there, it's one of the topics 14 that we're really heavy on. And it's the challenge that 15 all correctional facilities have. It's not just ours. 16 Anybody that has individuals that work with other 17 individuals in charge of them, you've got to keep a close 18 eye on them. They fall prey. And every time that 19 happens, the first thing that we do is reflect as to what 20 could we have done. Why didn't we see it prior? Why 21 couldn't we help this individual not fall in that 22 particular? 257 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, am I correct that if you 2 were having these conversations about sexual assault and 3 not falling prey and so forth all the time, am I correct 4 that you definitely had such a conversation at the monthly 5 meeting and the joint meetings after each of these actual 6 staff-on-inmate events in which some of their co-workers 7 were canned? 8 MR. IBARRA: It is safe to say that, yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Blue, do you remember having 10 discussion at your monthly meetings about lessons to be 11 learned from the officer in February and the officer in 12 June who screwed around with inmates and lost their job? 13 MR. BLUE: Yes, I would. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And those meetings that 15 you both recall would have the unit managers present. Is 16 that correct? 17 MR. IBARRA: Not all the time, sir. 18 MR. BLUE: Not all the time. Sometime, they 19 might not have been there. They could be on PTO or 20 something of that nature. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: So how would you communicate it 22 to the unit managers if they weren't there? 258 1 MR. BLUE: I don't know how Chief Ibarra 2 communicated, but I communicated to my captains. You 3 know, when they came back, I would talk to them about the 4 meeting that we had. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, Chief Ibarra, as the 6 chief of unit management, you would be the one to make 7 sure your unit managers got the word. Is that correct? 8 MR. IBARRA: I would be that particular person, 9 yes, sir. Now, in terms of what the question you asked 10 were lessons learned. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. 12 MR. IBARRA: Again, I want to emphasize neither 13 I, or I don't know about Mr. Blue, discussed specifically 14 these individual cases. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 16 MR. IBARRA: But we'd talk about it on our 17 regular monthly meetings just like I do about safety, slip 18 and falls, reaching out to communication. Those are one 19 of the topics that is covered in all my monthly meetings. 20 Yes, sir, in general. Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And what I'm asking is when you 22 met with your unit managers after you had staff-on-inmate 259 1 sexual misconduct that led to termination or resignation 2 on two different occasions within five months of each 3 other, is it your testimony that you would have definitely 4 had a discussion, without going into the details, about 5 what happened to so and so? Let's talk about how she fell 6 into this and what lessons can be learned from it. 7 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir, inmate manipulation in 8 general. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and so your unit managers 10 included Mr. Corral. Is that correct? 11 MR. IBARRA: He is one of my staff. Yes, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So do you have any idea 13 why Mr. Corral cannot remember any conversations about 14 lessons learned after either of those events? 15 MR. IBARRA: I cannot answer that question for 16 Mr. Corral. Again, I did not discuss lessons learned, 17 because in my opinion, those particular cases, although 18 they were close together, there was no real lesson 19 learned. There is nothing there that I saw or any of us 20 saw that we could have done different to prevent it. We 21 did look at it and say well there was nothing to say, 22 well, it's like you mentioned earlier. Let's change this 260 1 and let's change that. Those are the easy ones. When you 2 can pinpoint what happened and you can make changes to 3 correct it, these particular cases are staff members that 4 fell prey, just like we keep preaching every single day of 5 the year keep an eye out for. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And what did you tell your staff 7 about the characteristics of potential, sexual predators 8 on staff? 9 MR. IBARRA: Predators are individuals that are 10 looking for somebody they can manipulate. Mentally first, 11 emotionally second. They are looking for somebody that 12 has a need, that has not been filled by somebody or some 13 thing. Once they find that need, they fill it. And once 14 they fill it, the staff start feeling that they're part of 15 them. 16 Ninety percent of the situations that I've read 17 about, heard about, or seen and witnessed myself, and when 18 you question the staff member, it's all about, "I fell in 19 love." It's not about a sexual act. It's about I fell in 20 love, and if you dig enough deeper without getting to 21 human resources issues, you find that there was a need 22 that that particular inmate filled for them. That's why 261 1 they felt. And, it's up to us as co-workers to help that 2 individual fill their own needs or to go to proper places 3 to fill those needs and not allow an inmate to fill it for 4 them. 5 MS. CHUNN: Mr. Ibarra? 6 MR. IBARRA: Yes, ma'am. 7 MS. CHUNN: The explanation that you have just 8 given, is that typical of what you would have said to your 9 staffers? 10 MR. IBARRA: Yes, ma'am. That is typical and 11 exactly what we teach our staff during pre-service and 12 in-service. I myself was a training manager, and I myself 13 taught the class. 14 MS. CHUNN: Is there a reason that you don't 15 acknowledge that you have had those exact circumstances in 16 the facility? 17 MR. IBARRA: I'm sorry. Say that one more time? 18 MS. CHUNN: Is there a reason that you don't 19 acknowledge that you have had those exact circumstances in 20 the facility? Earlier, when you said to me people are 21 talking about this, that and the other informally, is 22 there a reason that you don't acknowledge that and 262 1 formalize it in those remarks and in the training? 2 MR. IBARRA: I do acknowledge it. These two 3 individual instances are acknowledged, just like other 4 incidents that happened the last 15 years I've been 5 working. There are cases that staff have fallen victim. 6 So I definitely acknowledge it. My theory was I didn't 7 say I didn't acknowledge it. I acknowledged the fact, and 8 I also acknowledged that the inmates also saw it. And 9 because of the close proximity of time frame and the 10 survey and this is all going on, that is my theory of why 11 the image reported more than I think they would have 12 normally. But I do believe the numbers. 13 MS. CHUNN: Right, yes, I accepted that. I 14 accepted that explanation. I am trying to understand now 15 when you are speaking with your staff about the dangers of 16 being involved with inmates and how they end up being 17 victimized, many of them, is there a reason you don't 18 acknowledge that that has happened right here in this 19 institution? Yes. 20 MR. IBARRA: I acknowledge it all the time ma'am. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: You tell your staff? 22 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 263 1 MR. MCFARLAND: You tell your staff? 2 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: This is not just theory. 4 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: This is not something our of 6 Washington, an NIC video. This is reality at this 7 facility. People have committed felonies and they have 8 lost their jobs. And their correctional careers are over, 9 because they didn't give the message I am trying to 10 communicate to you now. 11 MR. IBARRA: 100% under oath, yes, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: All righty. Mr. Blue, in your 13 extensive experience in corrections, what are the 14 characteristics of an inmate who is more likely than not 15 to become a sexual assault victim? 16 MR. BLUE: Well, one is an inmate just now coming 17 into the correctional setting, brand new, off the street, 18 that doesn't know the ins and outs of prison life. One 19 could be, you know, they was sexually assault when they 20 was young at home, those type of individuals. It could 21 be, you know, they already had a prior, you know, in 22 another correctional setting or whatever, those type of 264 1 people. And you've got the ones you know to look out for, 2 you know, gang members. You know, to try to claim the 3 people, property and things of that nature. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And how about the profile of 5 folks who are more likely to be predators? 6 MR. BLUE: More likely to be predators, like I 7 say, a lot of gang members? 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. 9 MR. BLUE: You've got people that, you know, 10 could be big in stature. You know, they say this is my 11 property and I am going to take it. You know, people of 12 that nature. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Older? 14 MR. BLUE: It could be any age. It doesn't 15 matter the age. If they feel like they want to do it 16 that's what they're going to do. 17 MS. CHUNN: Are inmates allowed to have 18 pornography? 19 MR. BLUE: No ma'am. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you all have access to this 21 OMS database? 22 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 265 1 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is it? 3 MR. BLUE: Oh, the OMS is the system that CCA 4 created to track each inmate in the system. You know, as 5 far as you can put the classification in there. You put 6 the man is offender. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and that's what it's 8 called? 9 MR. BLUE: Offender Management System, yes. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And, so, is there a mechanism in 11 OMS for the designation of sexual predators and sexual 12 victims? 13 MR. IBARRA: I'd like to answer that one. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, chief? 15 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. There is. Since your 16 last visit our corporate office has initiated an actual 17 report. As we spoke while you were there, we were putting 18 data into it, but the system wasn't capable of pulling 19 just reports up for us, so we'd have to management go in 20 and look at each one. Since then it is capable of doing 21 that. I can pull a report right now and show you who the 22 victims are, who the predators are within our institution, 266 1 housing location and where they're at. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And do you? 3 MR. IBARRA: I have, since that was like three 4 days before we came, yes, sir. I have. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And who are you going to 6 give that information to? 7 MR. IBARRA: My unit manager will have access to 8 that information, sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Do they have access, or do you 10 expect them to look at it? 11 MR. IBARRA: Oh, I - we're expected not only to 12 look at it, but we were looking at it in a way of 13 incorporating that particular. There's an area there that 14 has the charges. I don't want the general staff to have 15 that information, so we're looking at the lead in that 16 particular column and inserting that into our 17 communication log. We just locate in each control 18 station, be able to access by all the unit team members 19 within that prospective team. So unit one will have their 20 own unit, so forth and so on. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Does Ms. Aragon have access to 22 OMS? 267 1 MR. IBARRA: Ms. Aragon, yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Who deals with overseeing 3 housing? 4 MR. IBARRA: Housing? 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Housing, you know, who people are 6 bunking with, who people are assigned to? 7 MR. IBARRA: Unit managers within that 8 prospective area. Initially, the classification team, 9 orientation team, does their initial part of it. Then 10 those individuals' names and classification status is that 11 any general pertinent information is sent to the unit 12 manager via e-mail. The unit manager from the receiving 13 unit then makes an allocation as far as what housing in 14 their particular area. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Why was the staff turnover 16 so high in '07? I want to start with you, Mr. Blue. 17 MR. BLUE: The staff turnover rate, you know, was 18 pretty bad. You know, like saying we don't want to blame 19 it on the pay here or anything of that nature. You know, 20 some of them just left for better jobs, you know, for 21 better pay, different things of that nature. You know, 22 some of them might have felt that they were unhappy. You 268 1 know, corrections wasn't for them. You know, so we had to 2 exit and most of them stated, you know, that they found 3 better paying jobs, and that was over half of them. They 4 found better paying jobs, either going to Albuquerque or 5 whatever that nature. Then some of the other ones said 6 corrections wasn't for them, and I can take that, because 7 corrections isn't for everyone. 8 MS. CHUNN: Do you track that data all the time? 9 Do you look at, for example, quarterly how many people 10 have exited, what their reasons for leaving were, and then 11 do you look at it annually, so that you can see from one 12 year to another how many have left and what the reasons 13 were for the leaving? Are you doing that? 14 MR. BLUE: Resource tracks, things of that 15 nature. 16 MS. CHUNN: Do you all ever use it in the units 17 to inform your hiring and training processes? I mean do 18 you get it and talk about it? Look, we lost this many 19 people and the unit over here didn't, and maybe it's not 20 just mine. 21 MR. BLUE: We just look at it as a whole. 22 MS. CHUNN: No, as a unit-by-unit basis? 269 1 MR. BLUE: Oh, I can't tell you that right 2 off-hand, ma'am. 3 MS. CHUNN: Do you see any advantages that it 4 might bring? 5 MR. BLUE: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Blue, did you sign as chief 7 of security on February 26 of '07 the investigation 8 regarding the event? Let me just hand you the document. 9 MR. BLUE: I know what document you're talking 10 about. That's probably going to be the investigation. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, and the investigator was 12 Dave Casanova? 13 MR. BLUE: Yes, he was the captain that filled 14 out the form and then when those packets come to my desk 15 I look over and ensure that everything is correct. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and this was the February 17 relationship between staff and inmate? 18 MR. BLUE: Yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: On page 1 of this 5-1H incident 20 packet checklist and administrative review, 5-1E says: 21 "Prison Rape Elimination Act reporting," and it looks like 22 you filled in "N/A," not applicable. 270 1 MR. BLUE: Hm-hmm. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you need to see that? 3 MR. BLUE: No. I know. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, okay. And that's your 5 signature also? 6 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, why did you say 8 that? 9 MR. BLUE: I don't know, because at the time it 10 was not applicable, the time she was prosecuted for 11 anything for that nature when I filled out the report, you 12 know, charges weren't brought against that individual. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, you understood that if 14 an individual was allowed to resign and charges were not 15 pressed, that PREA reporting was not necessary. Is that 16 correct? 17 MR. BLUE: At that time, I believe so, sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that still your understanding? 19 MR. BLUE: No, sir. You know, PREA is you know 20 every thing you want to consider as a crime until it's 21 investigated. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And I mentioned earlier in this 271 1 trifold hand-out that you give to the new admittees now, 2 you say, "Sexual assault" -- not you -- page 1 says 3 "Sexual assault does not include incidents in which the 4 intent of the sexual contact is to harm or debilitate 5 rather than sexually exploit." Now, as I read PREA, it 6 doesn't recognize any such exception. It doesn't 7 recognize that the intent is relevant. 8 If there's any contact between genitals, the 9 purpose of sexual gratification is irrelevant. If there's 10 contact between genitals it is by definition a sexual 11 assault for purposes of PREA. In fact, the purpose of 12 sexual gratification is only mentioned as being relevant 13 to the definition of sexual fondling. So, is that news to 14 you gentleman? And I mean that with all due respect. 15 Have you had any kind of training that would 16 contradict the statement and the education that's being 17 given to your inmates that you might as well not bother to 18 report an event in which you're just being harmed or 19 somebody's trying to show who's boss, because that's not 20 going to be sexual assault? This brochure doesn't apply 21 to that. 22 MR. BLUE: Sir, I wasn't there when that brochure 272 1 came out so you would need to talk to the warden about it. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Good point. Chief Ibarra, is 3 that your understanding? 4 MR. IBARRA: No, sir. It's my contention that it 5 was added, and it wasn't added by me. I read that a 6 million times but never looked at it the way you're 7 looking at it. The way I looked at it, it was an 8 explanation to the inmate population as the differences of 9 one assault or sexual assault. But looking at it the way 10 you're looking at it, I think we can definitely revisit it 11 and change it if appropriate. But, yeah, that's the way 12 I interpret it. Was that an explanation of differences? 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And, gentlemen, of the nine 14 disciplinary records that were produced in 2007 alleging 15 sexual abuse, none of them resulted in investigations. Is 16 that correct? 17 MR. IBARRA: Can you repeat that one more time, 18 please? 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Your facility produced nine cases 20 of disciplinary records involving sexual abuse or exposure 21 or masturbation, and none of those nine disciplinary 22 reports resulted in an inmate-on-inmate sexual assault 273 1 investigation. Am I incorrect in that? Do you remember 2 a single case? 3 MR. BLUE: Correct. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? 5 MR. BLUE: You're correct. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Chief Ibarra, does that 7 sound right to you? 8 MR. IBARRA: No, sir. I believe every single one 9 of those did go through an investigation, a disciplinary 10 process investigation. Those particular incidents in 11 question were facility violations, and they were treated 12 as such. The disciplinary investigator does their portion 13 as far as investigating it and, if during their 14 investigation they find substantial evidence that would 15 bring it out to another level, then of course we would 16 look at it in that case. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Earlier I asked you if the 18 facility's answer to question 28 was accurate, "there were 19 no alleged inmate-on-inmate sexual abuse reports at 20 Torrance County Detention Facility in calendar year 2007," 21 and I think you both answered that that was accurate to 22 your best knowledge. What am I missing? 274 1 MR. BLUE: Now, are you talking about criminal 2 investigation or just normal disciplinary investigation? 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I am talking about -- 4 MR. BLUE: Now, the disciplinary investigation we 5 did have disciplinary, those non-disciplinary, but we did 6 not send any, as far as my recollection, out to criminal 7 investigation on those nine reports that you're talking 8 about. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: So none of these nine went any 10 further than the disciplinary process? 11 MR. BLUE: Yes, so far as my recollection. Now, 12 one of them, I wasn't there for two of those. I was only 13 there for seven. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, well, it sounds like this 15 panel is the most knowledgeable about actual events in 16 '07, so bear with me. But I want to very quickly walk 17 through these nine, and tell me if I'm understanding them 18 correctly. The first one is in 2007-07-15. And in that 19 case this is a February 6 incident involving a case 20 manager walking through unit 7A and an inmate being in the 21 shower and exposing himself from the shower. Do you 22 recall anything in regard to that incident? 275 1 MR. BLUE: Yeah, I recall that incident. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And was that a sexual assault 3 violation? 4 MR. BLUE: That was a disciplinary infraction of 5 sexual misconduct, an infraction he went to disciplinary. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: For having walked out of the 7 shower. 8 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is Case Manager Pagan a 10 female? 11 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Then 2007-04-027, an 13 inmate was blowing kisses to a female correctional 14 officer, and that person got 30 days recreation 15 restriction. Do either of you know anything about that? 16 MR. BLUE: Vaguely. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Just chime in Chief, if you think 18 of anything. 19 MR. IBARRA: Yeah, no, I recall just by reading 20 this. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah. Then 2007-05-007, a female 22 correction officer stated that an inmate exposed himself 276 1 on two occasions. The inmate got 30 days wing 2 restriction. Do you recall that event in May? 3 MR. BLUE: No, sir, just what I read. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you have occasion to either 5 review these disciplinary reports before your testimony 6 today? 7 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 8 MR. BLUE: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 10 MR. IBARRA: And I'd like to mention that all 11 reports that are written in the facility go through a 12 review process the following morning to make sure the 13 report's okay. And if we have any questions for that 14 particular officer or commander on that shift, myself and 15 the unit managers use the assistant wardens present and we 16 go over all the disciplinary reports and we log them 17 accordingly. Those that are missing factual information, 18 we ask for additional information. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Then there's 2007-07-034. An 20 inmate was observed rubbing the genital area of another 21 inmate; 20 days recreation restriction. Do you recall 22 that event in August? 277 1 MR. BLUE: No, sir. 2 MR. IBARRA: Do I recall what, sir? 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you recall that event in 4 August? 5 MR. IBARRA: I do recall the investigator, Mr. 6 Varnum, also the one that saw them, mentioned that they 7 didn't see him. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: What else did Mr. Varnum mention 9 to you about that event? 10 MR. IBARRA: That he had, just because I was 11 walking by that day, and he said he was getting ready to 12 take care of a situation where he saw two inmates out in 13 the yard which appeared to be having a sexual encounter. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And do you know anything more 15 about what happened in that? 16 MR. IBARRA: No, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: I can't read the signatures of 18 the individuals, but it may be would it be [REDACTED]? 19 The same event, these were two female inmates holding 20 hands and rubbing the crotch area of one of the inmates. 21 Is that an infraction, a disciplinary infraction for one 22 inmate to touch another inmate in that way? 278 1 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. That's sexual misconduct. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: What if it's consensual? 3 MR. IBARRA: It's still sexual misconduct. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: What if it's consensual? 5 MR. BLUE: It's still sexual misconduct. 6 MR. IBARRA: We don't allow that in our facility. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: In 2007-08-023, which is an 8 incident on August 19 in which during formal count time a 9 male inmate was masturbating for a female officer to see. 10 Do you remember this event? 11 MR. BLUE: Just what I've read on the answering 12 report. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Maybe we can save some time. Do 14 you all know anything more about these disciplinary 15 reports other than just what I'm looking at here? 16 MR. IBARRA: No, sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So you did not as a 18 course of practice receive briefings or information about 19 sexual assault, disciplinary reports? 20 MR. IBARRA: No, sir. These reports were written 21 and reviewed with the sexual misconduct, not sexual 22 assault. Misconduct is just like what these reports 279 1 state. The inmate come out of the shower, that those were 2 reported. They were not reported or looked upon as an 3 assault. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, I see, all right. So you 5 would be told about sexual assaults but not about sexual 6 misconduct? 7 MR. IBARRA: No. As I mentioned earlier sir, I 8 review every single report. So, yes, I was told in 9 writing every morning I get them. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. All right. So your point 11 is you don't know any more than what's written there, but 12 you were informed of it prior to last night when you were 13 preparing for this? 14 MR. IBARRA: Correct. You witness something, you 15 write it up. You review it. If I have enough 16 information, I'll put it through. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, 2007-11-014, 30-day 18 wing restriction and a written and verbal reprimand for an 19 inmate who was found inside another inmate's cell and in 20 bed with another inmate. Do you know anything about that 21 event? 22 MR. BLUE: That's what I read. 280 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that a problem, for if it's 2 consensual activity for an inmate to be in bed with 3 another inmate? 4 MR. IBARRA: No, sir. That is not common 5 practice at all. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: No, but is that a disciplinary 7 infraction? 8 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 9 MR. BLUE: Yes, sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Chief Ibarra, the majority 11 of the inmates in '07, they were Hispanic. Is that 12 correct? 13 MR. IBARRA: That is safe to say, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, in your view and your 15 experience, how do Hispanic inmates view homosexual 16 activity if there is a cultural Hispanic way of viewing 17 that? 18 MR. IBARRA: Based on my experience, it's my 19 understanding that they frown upon homosexuality in 20 general. That doesn't mean that there isn't some 21 homosexual activity that goes on in the Hispanic 22 population, but in general it doesn't seem to be as 281 1 prevalent as other. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And how do Hispanic inmates in 3 particular view or treat openly gay individuals? 4 MR. IBARRA: Depending on the individual 5 themselves and how they carry themselves, just like in the 6 real world, for the most part I find that if individual is 7 placed in the right environment they can sustain a happy 8 life as happy as they can be while they're incarcerated in 9 the general population if placed in the right environment 10 with the right individuals. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Where would you want to 12 have additional cameras? You were the chief of security, 13 Mr. Blue. If you had 15 more cameras or five more 14 cameras, where would you want to put them? 15 MR. BLUE: As you stated earlier in the earlier 16 testimony the culinary department back in the storage room 17 is a great place to have cameras, also some of the 18 cleaning closets. Extra cameras with the PTZ and the 19 dormitories that officers in central control can zoom in 20 and zoom out to different areas and inspect different 21 areas that maybe officers not in there today can see 22 what's going on, the chapel, different things of that 282 1 nature. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Chief Ibarra? 3 MR. IBARRA: I concur. I think it would be more 4 important for me right now to get an upgrade on the 5 camera. We have quite a few cameras, but a lot of them do 6 not pan, zoom, or anything. That's something we can 7 definitely use. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: So you would like some cameras 9 that have the capacity to rotate at will and to zoom? 10 MR. IBARRA: Correct. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. And have you made 12 that request of the administration? 13 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And the warden indicated that his 15 request for 15, or I don't know how many cameras, for some 16 additional cameras has been included in his budget. Do 17 you know if they're PTZ or tilt cameras? 18 MR. IBARRA: Yes, sir. 19 MR. BLUE: I couldn't tell you that. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? 21 MR. BLUE: I couldn't tell you that. 22 MR. IBARRA: It's my understanding they are, sir. 283 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 2 MS. CHUNN: Mr. Ibarra and Mr. Blue, we can have 3 the best policies and the best chit chats with the staff 4 available, but that doesn't guarantee a change in 5 behavior. We can also post numbers for detainees to call 6 at will to get help and resources, but that doesn't 7 guarantee that they will use them either, particularly if 8 they don't feel free or comfortable to do so. Here is my 9 question. From where you sit and have sat, Mr. Blue, what 10 else needs to happen to ensure that next year's numbers 11 don't look like this year's -- 2007 -- so whatever? 12 MR. BLUE: I would like to answer that. 13 MS. CHUNN: Okay. I'm going to let you, but I 14 want to make sure you understand my question, right? 15 Because we all know it's going to take just more than just 16 more cameras and more staff. It's going to take a change 17 in attitude, not just with staff, but also with detainees 18 too. And so it's a tall order that ultimately always 19 rests with unit management and security, always. So speak 20 to me. 21 MR. BLUE: First off, one thing we as staff have 22 to change ourself and the views on what we see and make 284 1 sure that we get the knowledge and understanding of what 2 the situation is and what the policy is. And once we do 3 that, then we have to take that out and give it to our 4 staff and give it to the inmates as well, and do it on a 5 daily basis and not just, you know, here or there. Do it 6 on a basis; get out, walk, talk to the inmates and 7 understand that they understand what the policy is and 8 what can happen, what the consequences and repercussions 9 for their actions are, and continue this on an everyday 10 basis. So we've beaten it in the back of their head. So 11 when they see it, they say, "man, I'm tired of hearing 12 about this. I'm not going to get into nothing." So if we 13 do that then we'll be fine. 14 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. 15 MR. IBARRA: In the same line, our company models 16 excellence in corrections, and ever since I've been 17 working for this particular company, not because I work 18 for them now, I strongly believe that's the way they feel. 19 And our facility feels that way very strongly. We take 20 our job very, very serious, and we are hurt when people 21 say we are not doing something, which we think we are. In 22 this particular case, the survey brought up enlightened 285 1 some areas that we were lacking in unbeknownst to us. In 2 other words, we are not doing something because we don't 3 know. 4 Once we find out, we'll make the changes 5 accordingly. We just keep plugging along. We've added 6 these new initiatives, and hopefully with the conjunction 7 of all these new initiatives and a new heightened 8 awareness of the PREA program and what it's all about that 9 the inmates themselves feel free to report, if they need 10 to be reporting to us. Because I think that looks to me 11 more of our downfall than anything else the fact that the 12 inmates aren't reporting to us for whatever reason that 13 might have been. And, hopefully, we have added enough 14 stuff, communication factors into it that they'll feel 15 comfortable. That if they're reported, they will take 16 action. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: I want to thank this panel very 18 much. 19 MR. IBARRA: Thank you, sir. 20 MR. BLUE: Thank you. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And we'll call the final panel. 22 Warden Ezell, again, who has already been sworn 286 1 and Shannon McReynolds. 2 Mr. McReynolds, would you mind raising your right 3 hand? 4 Whereupon, 5 SHANNON MCREYNOLDS 6 was called as a witness, and, having first been 7 duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 8 EXAMINATION 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. Mr. McReynolds, your 10 full name and responsibilities at Torrance? 11 MR. MCREYNOLDS: My name is Shannon McReynolds, 12 from May of 2005 until August of 2008 I was the contract 13 monitor for the New Mexico Corrections Department 14 overseeing operations at the Torrance County Detention 15 Facility. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And you said August of '08. Did 17 you mean '07 or did you mean '08? 18 MR. MCREYNOLDS: I was there until August '08. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: There were no state convicts 20 after the summer of '07. Is that right? 21 MR. MCREYNOLDS: No, we transferred all of our 22 state inmates out, the end of August, beginning of 287 1 September of this year. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Of this year, all right. Right, 3 right, okay. 4 MR. EZELL: Mr. Chairman? 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, sir. 6 MR. EZELL: I would like to try to clarify the 7 phrase in the pamphlet that you brought up where it says 8 "Sexual assault does not include instances in which any 9 instance intent of the sexual contact is to harm, 10 debilitate, rather than sexually exploit." My 11 understanding of that phrase is if I have a use of force 12 and my staff accidentally touched your genitals or your 13 breast, if you're a female, you cannot then turn around 14 and say you were sexually assaulted, because the intent of 15 that contact is not sexual. It is to get you to do 16 something that you don't want to do. That's my 17 understanding of that phrase. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: But how does that relate to an 19 intent to harm or debilitate? That's not the intent 20 behind one of your officers taking down an unruly inmate 21 is it? 22 MR. MCREYNOLDS: But in that process, if I 288 1 accidentally touch your genitals, then you as the inmate 2 cannot turn around and make a claim of sexual assault. 3 That's my understanding of that phrase in there. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you understand how some of 5 your inmates may read that assuming they can read and 6 understand this? You understand that they may read this 7 as hey, if I am touched in a non-sexual way, it's not 8 sexual assault, and it doesn't matter, you know, if the 9 individual can say their intent was to harm me or 10 debilitate me, but not for any sexually gratification, 11 they haven't raped me. Do you understand that's one way 12 of reading it? 13 MR. MCREYNOLDS: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Mr. McReynolds -- ? 15 MS. CHUNN: Right; before you go back I thought 16 I'd better say this: 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Go ahead. 18 MS. CHUNN: Warden Ezell, in view of your 19 understanding right now as of the 2007 survey and in view 20 of the work you've done already in preparing this, could 21 you see that with the possibility of misinterpretation 22 that this might be something you'd really want to consider 289 1 clarifying so it's absolutely crystal clear? 2 MR. EZELL: Well, what I plan to do ma'am is get 3 with our legal department that helped generate this 4 document as a company policy, point out the observations 5 of the Panel to our company PREA coordinator and get their 6 input on it. 7 MS. CHUNN: We'll trust your position. 8 MR. EZELL: Thank you, ma'am. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Ezell, Warden Ezell, what's 10 been the relationship, if any, of your facility with the 11 Moss Group here in Washington, D.C.? 12 MR. EZELL: Mr. Thompson has had conversations 13 with the Moss Group, several conversations. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And when? 15 MR. EZELL: After the survey was result in our 16 preparation and our planning on trying to put together, 17 okay, what's the right thing to do, trying to put together 18 a plan to address the issues that have been raised in this 19 survey. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: So this would have been after the 21 release of the jail report in June of this year? 22 MR. EZELL: That's my understanding, sir. 290 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Along those lines I'm 2 looking at page 5 of the new 14-2 policy on sexual 3 violence prevention and response. And one of the boxes 4 that I think you and your staff helped fill in on this 5 policy, I'm looking at the fifth sentence there. It talks 6 about a video by the Moss Group shown to all new arrivals 7 within 72 hours from admission. Is that now the policy of 8 your facility? 9 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. It is. As I testified 10 earlier, we not only show it at orientation, we were 11 showing it weekly on our movie channel. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. 13 MS. ELLIS: Warden, have you ever had any 14 attempted suicides in your facility? 15 MR. EZELL: Yes, we have. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Were they successful? 17 MR. EZELL: No, sir. They were not. 18 MS. ELLIS: Do you have a crisis response team? 19 MR. EZELL: We do. 20 MS. ELLIS: That address the issues following the 21 attempted suicide? 22 MR. EZELL: My mental health staff would be 291 1 heavily involved with that along with my medical staff and 2 also our contract psychiatrist. 3 MS. ELLIS: Have you ever had any homicides? 4 MR. EZELL: Not since I've been there ma'am. 5 MS. ELLIS: But do you understand that there may 6 have been a homicide before your arrival? 7 MR. EZELL: I cannot testify 100% on that. I may 8 have heard, but I don't have facts to back that up. I do 9 not know. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. McReynolds, how many state 11 DOC convicts did you have housed in '07 at any given time 12 in the Torrance facility? 13 MR. MCREYNOLDS: Up to 210. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and what custody range were 15 they? 16 MR. MCREYNOLDS: We classified them as level 17 three inmates. These are inmates that generally 18 correspond to medium-custody inmates in our classification 19 system, level 1 is the least restrictive. Those inmates 20 are allowed to go out on unsupervised work and school 21 release at the other end of the continuum. Level 6, 22 that's 23-hour lock-down. 292 1 MR. MCFARLAND: And where were your New Mexico 2 inmates housed at Torrance? 3 MR. MCREYNOLDS: They were housed in units 5, in 4 5A, which was a general population unit, 5D, which was a 5 segregation unit that was specific to New Mexico inmates, 6 and then housing units 6A, B, C and D. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And were you always there? 8 MR. MCREYNOLDS: I was there 40 hours a week, 9 yes. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So you are real 11 familiar with where the cameras were, where the 12 correctional officers were? 13 MR. MCREYNOLDS: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Did you hear anything 15 today, just to save us some time, that was inaccurate or 16 that you have a different spin on as far as where the 17 cameras were as of August of '07 in 5 and 6? 18 MR. MCREYNOLDS: No, those were correctly 19 described by the other. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And how about the testimony about 21 where the correctional officers were or were not? 22 MR. MCREYNOLDS: There was one moment when one 293 1 participant said that they had one rover on the floor of 2 housing unit 6 and one of my duties as contract monitor 3 was to review the staff rosters from the two previous 4 shifts. And there were regular posts for rovers listed on 5 that and there were always two rovers listed for housing 6 unit 6. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Regardless of shift? 8 MR. MCREYNOLDS: Regardless of shift. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 10 MR. MCREYNOLDS: And housing unit 5 in the day 11 they had four officers assigned to the floor; and, of 12 course, that was a segregation unit and those inmates had 13 to be escorted to medical, escorted to recreation and so 14 on. So it required more manpower. But in my duties as 15 contract monitor, that was part of my daily routine to 16 check those rosters. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Were you involved in the August 18 27 to August 30 inmate survey? 19 MR. MCREYNOLDS: I observed the people taking the 20 survey coming in. I did not participate in arranging for 21 them to interview specific inmates or anything like that. 22 No. 294 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you know that there were any 2 New Mexico inmates that did not want to participate? 3 MR. MCREYNOLDS: I did not know that. No. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Warden Ezell, did you know 5 that there were inmates who were forced to participate in 6 the survey? 7 MR. EZELL: My understanding, sir, the inmates 8 had to appear before the volunteers who were taking the 9 survey and at that time they could opt out of actually 10 taking the survey. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So nobody was forcing 12 them to punch buttons on the screen. They were forced to 13 show up and tell the monitor that they would or would not 14 participate? 15 MR. EZELL: That is correct. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, is it fair to say then 17 that Chief Ibarra's theory at least as far as it related 18 to that matter, you wouldn't have had individuals who were 19 sour grapes about being forced to participate in the 20 survey and therefore they wanted to screw the 21 administration and say that there were massive numbers of 22 rapes. Is that correct? 295 1 MR. EZELL: Restate your question, please. I 2 think you're asking me if I agree or disagree with what 3 Chief Ibarra said. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Yeah, that's a good question. 5 (Laughter.) 6 MR. EZELL: I agree with him. I agree that some 7 of the inmates that went down there, even though they may 8 not have wanted to, they may have agreed to take the 9 survey were impacted and influenced by some of the issues 10 we had going on with the two female staff. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: As well as the two inmate-on- 12 inmate events that we've already talked about. 13 MR. EZELL: That also would be a factor. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. McReynolds, why did the New 15 Mexico Department of Corrections move all of its inmates 16 out of Torrance? 17 MR. MCREYNOLDS: Two years ago, the department 18 announced plans to contract with a new, private facility 19 up in Clayton, New Mexico, and the plan was to use those 20 inmates that we had accumulated during the two-year 21 building process to go ahead and fill that facility. Now, 22 had an unanticipated drop in the number of intakes at RDC, 296 1 which resulted in a three percent drop in our population. 2 So, all of a sudden, we didn't have quite enough 3 inmates to fill that facility. So the decision was made 4 to pull inmates out of Santa Fe County Detention Facility 5 where we had contracted to house state inmates and the 6 Torrance County Detention Facility where we had housed 7 contract inmates, take those inmates out and move them up 8 to the facility in Clayton. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And did you say Clayton is a 10 privately owned facility? 11 MR. MCREYNOLDS: It is run by GEO group. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And why did you choose? 13 Wouldn't it be a lot easier just to keep the folks, as 14 long as you're going to rent beds from a private outfit, 15 why not just keep them where they already are rather than 16 move them up to a new place? Did you get a better deal 17 from GEO? 18 MR. MCREYNOLDS: I can't answer to that. The 19 only insight I have into that is that the current 20 secretary of corrections used to be a GEO warden. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden Ezell, 19 of 43 new 22 recruits from 2006 left their job before their anniversary 297 1 dates. Do you have a reason, an explanation? 2 MR. EZELL: 2006? 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, sir. These were folks who 4 were recruited in 2006 but never saw their first 5 anniversary in '07. 6 MR. EZELL: As we have discussed when you were at 7 the facility, our turnover rate was over 40% in 2007. I 8 credit that, as some of the others have mentioned in their 9 testimony, to the way the staff were treated. They 10 weren't respected, and this is my opinion. I got there in 11 April and we had a lot of work to do in turning around how 12 we treated each other, just treating staff with respect, 13 using a calm voice, not yelling; not screaming; not 14 throwing things; not cussing. 15 That creates a very poor work environment, and if 16 I was walking into that as a new recruit, especially if I 17 was 19, 20, 21, I wouldn't stay either. But we have made 18 a lot of progress in the year and a half I've been there. 19 I credit my department managers, my chiefs, our turnover 20 rate for 2008 is 24%. So we have made a serious impact on 21 it. It was alluded to in earlier testimony, yes, we 22 fought hard in 2007 and got a pay raise for our staff. 298 1 That helped. But in my mind that was not the reason they 2 stayed. Yet, they felt appreciated, very basic human one 3 on one how you treat each other. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden Ezell, we have heard from 5 a number of your staff as well as yourself about a zero 6 tolerance policy and how shocked everybody was to see your 7 facility rating the worst in the country according to 8 these inmates, and we've heard various theories about it, 9 and this is as you know the first privately-owned facility 10 that has come before this Panel, and I'm frankly 11 flabbergasted that two and a half months after you have 12 asked for 15 correctional officers making $11.87 an hour 13 that you haven't got that in a heartbeat from Nashville. 14 Am I missing something, or does there seem to be a bit of 15 an inconsistency that, "Gee, we're shocked and appalled, 16 and we want to right these wrongs, and we'll give them 17 some video cameras." But you can't get a response in the 18 two and a half months after the Department of Justice has 19 announced that CCA is running the worst sexual assault 20 facility in the country. Am I missing something, or does 21 that kind of take the wind out of the sincerity of some of 22 the testimony here today? 299 1 MR. EZELL: I can understand your perception, but 2 again, I will say based on my conversations with the folks 3 in Nashville, I deal with the prevention of prison rape is 4 serious, as I said earlier. If I have one during my 5 watch, I've had one too many, and I take that seriously. 6 That message has been delivered to my staff. They're 7 listening. I went over this morning. The staff 8 initiatives we have implemented to increase the awareness, 9 the training, so I have to believe, sir, that our company 10 is behind it. Would I appreciate or would I have hoped to 11 have gotten a quicker answer, of course. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: You're a great man of faith. 13 MR. EZELL: Sir? 14 MR. MCFARLAND: You're a great man of faith. 15 MS. CHUNN: Warden Ezell, I know what it's like 16 to desperately need something to make programs better and 17 not be sure whether or not it will be forthcoming. What 18 is your plan? Are you working on a plan B in case it 19 takes a little time for you to get that tangible evidence 20 of commitment? Are you working on something else? You 21 know, I call that a stop gap measure that will help to at 22 least keep you moving in the right direction? 300 1 MR. EZELL: Well, I sit here with my former 2 contract monitor in a way the removal of all of the New 3 Mexico inmates have given me the ability. As you know, I 4 closed three posts. ICE saved some bodies. We're using 5 those staff in other areas, cutting down some of the 6 overtime, and as was testified to earlier we still are 7 having some mandatory overtime, not near the amounts we 8 had in '07. So, right now, that is my plan B and I think 9 plan B also is just the total involvement of the staff. 10 Obviously, when that report came out I looked at 11 it and said some words and then okay. Now, we've got to 12 figure out what we're going to do about it, and I think 13 the education of staff is so important and I think that's 14 part of the plan B also. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Where will you put any additional 16 COs if you get them? 17 MR. EZELL: What we would do in some of our units 18 right now, referring back to the diagram, we have those 19 two rovers. We would basically put one in every two units 20 where they wouldn't have four units to cover. I would 21 only have two units to cover, and that increases my staff 22 presence. That increases staff availability that 301 1 decreases a lot of empty time where inmates know, hey 2 staff won't be back for 20, 30 minutes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Does this new policy, 14-2, does 4 it apply to the Marshal Service inmates? 5 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: How about the ICE inmates? 7 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: And the county sheriff inmates? 9 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, it does. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And in the definition of 11 employee, it talks about employees being bound by this. 12 But is this policy also applied to transportation staff 13 for the Marshal Service, for ICE and for the sheriffs? 14 MR. EZELL: The sheriff is the only one. Well, 15 let me back up. The sheriff or his deputies bring their 16 inmates to the facility, and then once we take custody of 17 them then this would apply. When that officer comes and 18 retakes custody of that inmate to go to court or whatever, 19 that inmate becomes their custody. This would not apply 20 to the sheriff. 21 I would hope that Torrance County has their own 22 policy of some kind, and the same with immigration. When 302 1 we release the inmate back to the custody of the agency 2 that sent him to us, at that point in time we don't have 3 authority or jurisdiction over that inmate. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Does the staff-on-inmate sexual 5 misconduct or sexual harassment also apply to civilians, 6 not just your paid employees of CCA? 7 MR. EZELL: It would be volunteers, contract 8 staff, yes, sir. And as you noted, we even had down on 9 our post. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: We're going to just pause for a 11 second. 12 MS. ELLIS: As we talk about your plan A and plan 13 B as you anticipate support from corporate and put your 14 own initiatives to work with staff training and a number 15 of other issues that you mentioned, do you have a really 16 good solid evaluation plan, progress plan, evaluation 17 plan, so that you can look at and test each of these 18 initiatives as you work through them to see the progress 19 that you are making? 20 MR. EZELL: No, ma'am. I don't, but that's a 21 very good idea. 22 MS. ELLIS: Good, I hope you'll follow-up on that 303 1 because that will give you some idea of how things are 2 taking effect. 3 MR. EZELL: I think we will also be able to tell 4 on the turnover, the morale. 5 MS. ELLIS: Absolutely. 6 MR. EZELL: Of not only the staff, but the morale 7 of the inmates, how they react. I think that will be a 8 good sensing also. 9 MS. ELLIS: Indeed, and as a level of 10 understanding and knowledge increases about sexual assault 11 and trauma, I think you may see some other changes as 12 well. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden, do you have any unions at 14 your shop? 15 MR. EZELL: No, sir. We do not. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what are the 17 qualifications for being a correctional officer? 18 MR. EZELL: The qualifications in New Mexico are 19 a high school graduate, and I believe it's 18 years old. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And you produced a nine-page 21 document. No. I'm sorry. This is just our work. Is it 22 true that you as the warden can waive any or all 304 1 experience requirements with respect to senior 2 correctional officers and several other shift supervisors 3 and possibly other employees if you conclude that none of 4 the applicants has all of the qualifications? 5 MR. EZELL: I believe I have that discretion, 6 yes, sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Have you had occasion to 8 have to use that waiver? 9 MR. EZELL: Not that I recall. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Are your correctional officers 11 sworn law enforcement officers? 12 MR. EZELL: No, sir. They are not. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So their tenure at the 14 facility does not count. They can't go to a police 15 department and say well, I've got five years at Torrance 16 County, so I have five years experience as a law 17 enforcement officer? 18 MR. EZELL: They could try, but to my knowledge 19 it would not carry over. They are not sworn officers. 20 They have not attended the required New Mexico law 21 enforcement training courses. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: What do you think of the idea of 305 1 looking into that as another way of attracting and holding 2 on to staff? 3 MR. EZELL: I am not sure I would want to go that 4 route. In my experience in corrections, it takes a 5 different mindset to work inside of a facility than it 6 does to work on the street. A street cop and someone 7 working inside a facility need to be different. The 8 survival attitude, the John Wayne attitude if you will is 9 different on the street than inside. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, they're packing the heat on 11 the street, and some of these officers kind of miss having 12 that piece on their hip. Right? 13 MR. EZELL: They would, but I would rather have 14 someone I can train to be, and I call it in the people 15 business, where I don't have a baton on one hip, a gun on 16 one hip, a can of mace, handcuffs, slap jacks, and all 17 that. I want someone who can rely on their communication 18 skills, because that's our biggest asset. And my 19 experience, again, people who are former officers on the 20 street have not done well in corrections that I have seen. 21 MS. ELLIS: I'm not so sure I agree with that. 22 MR. EZELL: Ma'am? 306 1 MS. CHUNN: I totally agree. 2 MS. ELLIS: I'm not so sure I do in terms of 3 communication skills, in terms of training, in terms of 4 commitment; and, I think, perhaps most of all in terms of 5 taking an oath and being held to a certain standard. So 6 I'm just not so sure that that fits for me. 7 MR. EZELL: Then, ma'am, all I can tell you is my 8 thoughts on it; I have no statistical data or anything 9 like that. That's just me. 10 MS. ELLIS: I understand. It's an opinion and I 11 can accept that. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Is your facility, Warden, fully 13 staffed now? 14 MR. EZELL: I am three officers away as of last 15 Friday. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And are those security officers 17 or support staff? 18 MR. EZELL: Those are correctional staff, sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And are you familiar with 20 the pay for correctional officers at any other facilities 21 and how your facility would compare to the pay elsewhere 22 in New Mexico? 307 1 MR. EZELL: With our pay raise last year we are 2 much more competitive. Being where I am in rural New 3 Mexico, I am not going to compete with downtown 4 Albuquerque. There is no way I can do that. I cannot 5 compete with my friends with New Mexico Corrections 6 Department and some of the retirement benefits they have. 7 But for where we're located, our pay is competitive and we 8 continue to work on it every year. Every year our staff 9 is eligible for a merit raise. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Warden, I sent you this note that 11 was handed to me. 12 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And I'm just asking you what you 14 make of it, and by this note I'm referring to the one that 15 I read this morning addressed "Dear ladies and gentlemen." 16 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir. I have read it several 17 times. I have shared it with my executive staff and it's 18 hard to comment. I have an anonymous note from an inmate 19 who is just making broad allegations. No specifics, even 20 though he says I recommend certain staff get this 21 training. Well tell me who? From what I have seen, and 22 I do my best to get in the back, obviously, I'd love to be 308 1 back there more and less paperwork and less computer time. 2 I see my staff trying to do the right thing. 3 If an inmate approaches him with a problem, my 4 staffs try and fix it. I would rather be able to talk to 5 the inmate, fix the problem now, than have to go through 6 the grievance process and the paperwork process. Let's 7 just take care of it and get on with it. I do not agree 8 with their assumption that if we had a major traumatic 9 incident, my staff would stumble and fumble and not do it 10 right. I don't agree with that. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, he's not talking about he 12 or she. Of course, it was a male. 13 MR. EZELL: Yes, it was. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: It was not talking about a 15 violent incident. 16 MR. EZELL: I understand. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: I don't think he's talking about 18 whether you're a SWAT team. 19 MR. EZELL: And by my comment, sir, I mean if we 20 had a sexual assault, I think my staff would probably 21 respond. They would treat it with the sensitivity they 22 need to. We would get the inmate and the victim and the 309 1 predator, whatever the necessary medical treatment is. I 2 think we would handle it appropriately is what I am 3 saying. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Does this note sound like your 5 average Torrance County Jail inmate? The author addresses 6 it not to, you know, DOJ suit or something. It's "Dear 7 ladies and gentlemen." This author evidently knew that 8 there were females on this Panel, and uses terms that I'd 9 really be proud to, a vocabulary I'd really be proud of. 10 I have not run into too many inmates who use the 11 word "pervasive," "non-accountability," "entity," a "rapid 12 response," and "discretion," "multiple approaches." And 13 it doesn't say anything about cold waffles, and there's 14 not a single four-letter word or misspelled word. But his 15 pitch is we need to improve effective communication. You 16 know, let me just throw out. Have you thought about this 17 being one of your contract staff? 18 MR. EZELL: The inmate who gave you that? 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Not being the author? 20 MR. EZELL: No, sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: One of your staff handing that 22 to -- an obviously written -- this person knew I was 310 1 coming. 2 MR. EZELL: You know, we did not try and hide 3 your tour. I will tour anyone in that facility any time 4 with no notice. I'm that proud of my guys and gals to do 5 the job every day. I'm that proud of how we keep it, but 6 we didn't make a big secret that DOJ, the chair or the 7 Panel is coming for a tour. My officers knew it. It was 8 on the welcome board when you came in. It had been there 9 for a day already. We have talked about in department 10 manager meetings, so I am sure that word has filtered out 11 to the inmates. I think he knew who he was giving it to. 12 MS. ELLIS: So you think it was an inmate? 13 MR. EZELL: Ma'am? 14 MS. ELLIS: You think it was an inmate thing? 15 MR. EZELL: Yes, ma'am. I was in the same unit 16 when the guy gave it to him. 17 MS. ELLIS: So you think he wrote it? 18 MR. EZELL: I do. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you approached anybody about 20 being the author of this note? 21 MR. EZELL: No, sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 311 1 MS. CHUNN: With all due respect, Warden Ezell, 2 let me just say that the first couple of panels this 3 morning would have made me wonder whether or not there was 4 a lot of integrity and authenticity in what was said. And 5 I understand that this is a process that can be absolutely 6 just gut wrenching. I mean, I really can get in that 7 place to understand that, but until we got to the panel 8 just before yours, it was beginning to feel like for me 9 that perhaps there was some merit in that comment, because 10 while we were getting little pieces of information, we 11 were not getting enough to really help us to see where the 12 problem may be and how we could help other jurisdictions 13 not make the same problem. 14 And I believe that when we open, we did reference 15 the notion that this is an opportunity for us to learn 16 from this, not just you, but the entire country to learn 17 from this. And the more specificity we have, the better 18 informed we can be, and so I would just offer as a comment 19 that you may want to reconsider. And I know my comments 20 are supposed to be questions. 21 I know that. But I did have to at least 22 acknowledge that the rather closed responses of the first 312 1 two panels would have made me think that that kind of 2 thought had some merit to it if I were an attorney. You 3 need not respond. I just want to offer that as perhaps 4 some alternative point of view that might help to get you 5 down the road. We all want the same thing. We want to 6 remedy this. We want to prove this, and we want it better 7 for everybody everywhere. 8 MR. EZELL: And, ma'am, my one comment is I 9 appreciate your insight and I will do my best not to have 10 me and my guys and gals have to come before a panel again 11 for a long time. 12 MS. ELLIS: Warden, I just have a few comments. 13 I sense your eagerness to be successful and to change the 14 culture in your facility to initiate change and do some 15 positive things with your training. And you've already 16 begun to do things that will enhance the work environment 17 for your folks. You have a huge challenge with this 18 facility and the integration of various jails within a 19 jail. 20 You also have very diverse population that you're 21 working with and we didn't talk about your cultural 22 competence training, didn't ask you about that, but I 313 1 would encourage you to ensure that your entire staff is 2 trained on the whole issue of cultural competency, not 3 only in terms of race and ethnicity, but from a religious 4 standpoint, people who come from different communities 5 with different values, people who look different, tall 6 people, short people, just groups, just cultures, people 7 that are joined together by their belief systems and their 8 traditions. 9 It's so important and it makes such a difference 10 when you can check your own bias at the door, understand 11 them, and be able to work in spite of them and to be able 12 to grow as an organization and to grow as individuals as 13 you perform the critical work that you do. I still am not 14 completely happy with what I consider a limit to the 15 amount of support from corporate. I just am not sensing 16 it. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Corporation? 18 MS. ELLIS: Yes, or corporate office. I'm just 19 not sensing that there's a great deal of support for you, 20 and there may be, but it is my sense that you could get 21 perhaps more support from the folks at the top in 22 appreciation of how difficult it is for you to work at 314 1 your level. So I leave you with the fact that I am 2 positive and optimistic about your facility. You've got 3 a difficult task before you and you've got an unbelievable 4 reputation across the nation now. 5 MR. EZELL: I really hope that someone else gets 6 to be in the position that I'm in next time around. And 7 nice meeting you all, but you know what I'm saying. 8 MS. ELLIS: Well, we can appreciate that. And I 9 won't belabor the point, but to wish you well. 10 MR. EZELL: Thank you, ma'am. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And just a couple of comments and 12 we'll close, Warden. I want to affirm your immediate 13 efforts. Words are cheap, but you immediately have 14 responded. You've assumed the accuracy of the survey. 15 You've taken zero tolerance seriously. You've already got 16 a new, very impressive policy. Now, policies are cheap 17 too, but getting it through at least corporate put that 18 out, and you've got a new screening instrument, which is 19 impressive. 20 You've got a request for new cameras, and you've 21 got them. And as Chief Ibarra said they're the right 22 kind, tilting, zooming and so forth. You've asked for 315 1 additional correctional officers. You've got additional 2 hours for the case managers to be in the pods. You've got 3 the hotline installed. You've got posters everywhere. I 4 really want to congratulate you and affirm you for your 5 leadership in that way. You've done a lot in less than 6 four months. I hope that CCA wants to support you in that 7 and relinquish the ignominious reputation that they're the 8 first private facility, private corporation, to come 9 before this Panel. 10 Let me just make a couple of suggestions for what 11 they're worth in addition to the suggestions made on the 12 tour. The training leaves something to be desired, it 13 seems to me. I don't think your senior management or any 14 of the folks we talked to here really have a good idea of 15 what is sexual assault and what is sexual misconduct and 16 what is a felony and what isn't. I think they have a 17 pretty good idea that they can write somebody up for an 18 infraction, but I don't think they know whether they're 19 talking about a felony. I don't think the brochure is 20 accurate, and I don't think it would comply with PREA. 21 I think your medical staff, as Mr. Campbell was 22 gracious enough to concede, they need some additional 316 1 training on rape and they would welcome it. I can't think 2 of any portion of your staff that should be better versed 3 in looking at what are the symptoms, what are the 4 procedures, what are the forensic concerns, what are the 5 unique needs of women inmates than the medical staff. 6 I think the training of inmates, you are already 7 jumping on that. You've already got plans for the video 8 or it's already instigated a few days ago. That's great. 9 The brochure needs to be corrected, and I think you 10 definitely are in the right track of needing more 11 correctional officers, and I certainly hope that CCA puts 12 their money where their mouth is on that. 13 And, finally, I think your medical professionals 14 need more hours. I mean, you need more medical 15 professionals. You are 60 miles from a PREA nurse and 16 you've got some very experienced nurses and nurse 17 practitioners, and I think you need some cross-gender 18 medical professionals who can put in more than the hours 19 that your current staff need. So with all that, those are 20 just some observations off the cuff, and let me just say 21 that I'd like to discuss with you later the possibility of 22 taking a telephonic deposition. 317 1 I'm not bringing anybody out here again, but 2 taking by telephone the sworn testimony of Mr. Varnum if 3 his health permits it, because he is the investigator on 4 all of these incidents. Your PREA coordinator, Maria 5 Sanchez, who could not make it because of the religious 6 holiday today, and possibly case manager Phillips who 7 actually gives the orientation to the inmates. So we can 8 talk to you and Mr. Thompson, and your legal counsel or 9 whomever, about the possibility of scheduling that. 10 MR. EZELL: I will check. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Does that give you any heartburn? 12 MR. EZELL: No, sir. As I said, we're not trying 13 to hide anything. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you again for the very 15 comprehensive inspection that you afforded me. It was 16 very helpful to the Panel. Thank you all for coming out 17 here and putting up with a very long day of questioning. 18 And I hope that you have some time to look around and 19 enjoy the Capital before you hop on a plane. Unless 20 there's anything else? 21 MS. ELLIS: No. 22 MR. EZELL: Sir, I would just like to take this 318 1 opportunity to thank the ladies and gentlemen who came up 2 here with me and participated in a very first experience 3 for me and I know it's a first time for them. And I am 4 proud not only of the staff I brought with me, but I am 5 proud of all the staff I've got there in New Mexico doing 6 the job every day. 7 Thank you. 8 MS. ELLIS: Thank you. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. We stand adjourned. 10 (Whereupon, at 5:25 p.m., the hearing was 11 adjourned.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22